Discouraging Protest Vote, Sanders Says: Elect Clinton—Then Mobilize
Reiterating why he thinks it is crucial for the future of the country, as well as the planet, that Republican nominee Donald Trump not be elected U.S. president, former Democratic candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders called on his supporters Friday to "think hard" before casting a protest vote.
"Let us elect Hillary Clinton as president and that day after let us mobilize millions of people around the progressive agenda which was passed in the Democratic platform." —Sen. Bernie Sanders"Look, I was a third-party candidate. I began my career running as a third party, getting 2 percent and then 1 percent," Sanders said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "I'm the longest serving independent in the history of the U.S. Congress, but I think that before you cast a protest vote, because [Hillary] Clinton or Trump will be president, think hard about it. This is not a governor's race. It's not a state legislative race. This is the presidency of the United States."
The remarks were made one day after new polling found that roughly a third of likely voters aged 18-29 are considering voting for a third party candidate. Sanders said that he understands that voters are "not enamored" with their choices, but emphasized the importance of looking "at the issues."
"If you are a working person, do you really think that billionaires need a large tax break? Which is what Trump is proposing. If you are an ordinary American who listens to science, do you think its a good idea that the President of the United States rejects science and says that climate change is a hoax?" he asked. "I think that if you look at the issues—raising minimum wage, building infrastructure, expanding healthcare—Clinton, by far, is the superior candidate."
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/09/16/discouraging-protest-vote-sa...
***
Well, finally. After all the bullshit I've told myself about hanging in and seeing what Sanders is really up to, staying in to see if he really had something 'up his sleeve', I finally hit the hard brick wall of reality. This old duffer can bite my ass. He's turned us over to the neo-liberal wing of the Democratic Party to be screwed over. I don't care what he said about 'supporting the nominee'. The 'nominee' is a lying crooked cheating ($&^$ who robbed us of a fair primary. And if he thinks he's going have any power after this, he needs to go talk to Dennis Kucinich and see what happens to those who try to fight the official party line.
Anyway during the primary, weren't we told by the Clintonistas that they didn't need us anyway? Both Sanders and HillBillary can go bugger off.
Comments
(1) Mobilize; (2) Forget Sanders
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Yup
I still don't think he's the kind of "fraud" a few here make him out to be, but you can bet I'm not going to pay him heed. Clearly, obviously, the man got worked over in more ways than one during the primary season, particularly the second night of the Dem convention.
I'll be voting Green Party as I know an awful lot of others will be doing as well. Maybe if enough of us do that, they'll try and cheat anyway, and then someone will actually catch them doing it. All criminals screw up eventually. And if it's as fixed as it seems, none of us has a thing to lose by voting for any other party. Never again will I vote for either of those two criminal private enterprises, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party.
I admire Sen. Sanders for what he did. I don't admire him for
what he's doing now.
He helped restart the progressive engine and it's up to us to get the engine up to speed and moving.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
This isn't the first thing I have disagreed with Sanders on, nor
do I expect it to be the last.
I still respect the man, but in this instance I feel he is wrong and will not be heeding his advice.
The next person I meet that I agree with 100% on everything will be the first...
I don't expect him to be perfect, I don't expect him to be always right, and I don't hate him for being wrong on this.
He is absolutely a long time champion of progressive causes, but we also have to acknowledge that he is just as susceptible to "Bubble Think" as anyone else, and EVERYONE in D.C. seems to live in a bubble whether they know it or not.
Bernie's bubble may not be as impermeable as some, but it's way bigger than mine...
Well, that, or there really is something behind those rumors of threats or extortion being used against him or his family. While this is absolutely CT at this time we should try to remember that there have ALWAYS been conspiracies, and there always will.
They only remain "Theory" until later proven fact, and anyone that doubts that members of our government haven't engaged in conspiracies in the past are woefully ignorant and those that think that it never will are even more so.
But that's just my opinion...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Yes, many conspiracies are based in fact, like the one some of
us read about that involved the words "Et tu, Brute?"
That was one doozy of a conspiracy. Look what it did to the history of the Roman Empire.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
And it was on the Ides Of March
Et tu, Kos?
Beware the bullshit factories.
The Platform is bollox anyway..... you'll never hear of it again
Sorry Bernie, not playing the LOTE game. Voting for Stein.
Should HRC win, her voters will 'own' the political disaster that will be her presidency.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
So elect the worse candidate and then immediately mobilize
against her? How exactly will we have any influence if we give her our votes after everything that has happened? "Do what we say, or we'll... vote for you repeatedly, but hey, we'll be holding our noses!! We don't want us holding our noses and talking about you as the LOTE, do you?" Bern, you've lost your mind (not intended as a medical diagnosis). How about we do everything we can to elect the best candidate in the first place? Jill Stein.
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Sanders Is a Smart, Principled Man Who Completely Misunderstands
behavioral modification and operant conditioning.
He's not alone, I teach many smart people how to manipulate their dogs and control behavior.
If you give her the cookie (the vote -- the reinforcer) before you get the behavior, you're getting played. ec, you said it very clearly,"What are we going to do, vote for you repeatedly?"
Democratic voters who are on the Left side of the Big Tent who telegraph their intent "I'll hold my nose," are, pardon my bluntness, morons. Complete morons. Giving the subject what they want, regardless of behavior is how morons train their dogs. It's how morons believe behavioral modification works. Thinking positive and "doing the right thing" means nothing when it comes to behavior mod.
So disappointing.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Thank you, k9! It's crystal clear to me, the only thing she
wants from us is our votes. If she cared about our approval, she'd never have rigged the primary. So if we give her our votes, we're done. No amount of disapproval is going to mean beans to her, if we disapprove but vote for her anyway.
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The Only Leverage We Have is Our Votes... What am I Going to
do, donate $27 to Bernie?
$27 is not a motivator, not even a million $27 are a motivator. Too much work, not enough control. $27M in one chunk is what Hillary is looking for. Anything else is inefficient use of resources.
Give her your vote, and you've shot your wad. You're taken for granted from that point on.
With Bernie, or a popular funded candidate, that is not the case. They are dependent upon a flurry of money coming in. They take the inefficient money, as money is not the point. Money is A tool, not THE tool.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Hillary dont need no stinking progressive votes
Neither before nor after her convention coronation has Hillary taken a single step to appeal to the 12 million people who voted for Bernie. Adopting Bill's old maxim of "well who else are they going to vote for", she pivoted right instantly and never looked back. If she is elected, by no matter how small a margin, she will claim a mandate, and using all the muscle that control of big money will give her, will proceed to enact every vile program already promised to her donors. Our only strength is pre election and by our votes. Sorry Bernie but Im never voting for corruption and war. Im voting Green
Yep. That's the way I look at it.
Apparently she thinks she can win with right-moderate votes. Fine, have at it. Meanwhile, since she doesn't need us, I hope the entire moderate-left votes Green.
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He is indeed a very smart man who has been in politics a
very long time, which is why I have a very difficult time believing that he misunderstands.
I think Bernie
learned a lot of things this past year. I believe he's decided the best thing he can do is consolidate his Senate position. I wish he had gone all in and sued the pants off the DNC and launched a write-in campaign, but I imagine he knows a bit more than we do about what really goes on in the halls of power.
[deleted]
[deleted]
It's Rarely More Than What Creates a Cookie & Where It Happens.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
We'll hold our noses harder!
And don't you make us stomp our feet! WE'LL DO IT!!!
Fuck that shit.
Please tell me how I convince the POTUS to do
something he or she has no intention of doing?
I tried that with Obama and a strong public option. Not even Medicare for all, but the strong public option that he himself had said was the only way to keep down medical costs. I was very persistent. I contacted the White House, my Senators and my Representative at least once a week. And so did millions of others, including nurses and doctors. We failed. So, please tell me how I mobilize against a POTUS who has no intention of doing what I want?
The public option wasn't even very strong
It wasn't even available to everyone. It was the weakest of demands from progressives. It was just something to show us that you're trying to take our policy desires into account. We tried working with them. We got the back of the hand. They sold it out behind closed doors while pretending to support it the whole way. Then they never tried anything progressive again.
Fuck. This. Shit.
Oh, you saw that!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
This would be so much easier if I'd just stop paying attention
Haha.
Well what can you say about a party running hearings to,
determine the viability of a healthcare coverage system that has the very people who work in that system arrested for speaking out about how bad it is now, what we need, and how we need to get it?
***
Baucus Healthcare Plan: Arrest Doctors, Nurses
Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus, the insurance industry-friendly Democrat who is managing show hearings on healthcare reform, has come up with a novel way to express his commitment to care for the almost 50 million Americans who have no healthcare and roughly equal number who have inadequate care. The senior senator from Montana is ordering the arrest of doctors and nurses.
Medical practitioners who have shown up at Baucus-chaired "roundtable discussions" to demand consideration of a real fix -- the single-payer, genuinely-public reform that assures all Americans will have health care while at the same time holding down costs -- are being taken into custody and removed from the hearing rooms.
https://www.thenation.com/article/baucus-healthcare-plan-arrest-doctors-...
***
And THIS, drones, NSA spying, and Wall Street bonuses told me all I need to know about Obama and about the 'Liberals/Progressives' who decided they can happily live with that because it's Obama. (But it was wrong when the Republican's do it.)
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
That was anti-democracy in action. Take the large and sparsely
populated states of the west - Utah, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Nevada, etc - and add up their population. It's less than the population of California; yet this swath of reaction has at least 16 Senators, while California has 2.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
For sure
I clearly remember that, and am still pissed.
They'd rather fight progressives than conservatives. They prove it over and over and over.
Baucus from red-state MT
Conservadem through and through, bought and paid for by business and corporate interests, and Obama's ambassador to China. China. What's that tell ya?
Baucus' legacy: dead Americans by the ton. Thanks Montana.
~annominous
The cake was baked when it left the White House.
From then on, Baucus, the woman from the health care industry who worked on it with Baucus and Susan Collins made it worse, but a strong public option was already out of the cake and Obama's promise to make sure the ban on drug reimportation stayed in place was already in the cake.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamasdeal/etc/cron.html
http://www.wsj.com/articles/big-pharmas-obamacare-reward-1423180690
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/us/politics/e-mails-reveal-extent-of-o...
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jul/23/nation/na-healthcare-talks23
The above gives an inkling of insight into why there were requests for White House visitor logs, then at least one lawsuit. The Obama administration first tried to blame noncompliance on the Secret Service (nonsensically), then on private visitors to the Obama kids and other family members. Both excuses were bs. Then, it was just the President doesn't have to tell Americans who influences his policy decisions (HA!). http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31373407/ns/politics-white_house/t/obama-block... This was very early into the administration of the man who had promised the most transparent Presidency ever (shortly before he began delivering the most opaque Presidency ever). But, doesn't it make us feel all warm and fuzzy all over when they call the White House "the people's house?" /sarcasm
After the FOIA request, they began meeting outside the White House, so no official record will ever reflect the full extent of the contacts between big health insurance, big medical care and big PHRMA before the bill ever got to Baucus.
And, this is just my guess, but it makes sense to me: I believe the meetings between members of the Obama administration and members of the various health industries had begun before Inauguration Day. This was to Obama's signature accomplishment, the second lock on his legacy. They would not want to take any chances. Rahm had been through it before with Billarycare. He knew just who he had to get on his side.
You can't convince POTUS AFTER you give him what he wants -
The only thing we have is our vote. When we make the Dems lose and claim it proudly, they'll learn they had better watch their backs. How do you think the Tea Party/crazy conservatives took control? Any GOP who didn't do their bidding lost office in the primary or the general. They didn't care which. It was my way, or you die. The crazies have laid out a play book, if the let had enough balls and brain to use it. Hillary's Presidency has to be our first kill politically speaking. And when the neoliberals say, see what you Bernie people did? Instead of refusing the honor, we say, yeah and you better watch out or your next.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
This! THIS! SO MUCH THIS!!!!
I have been saying for some time that while they may be nutty bastards, we can absolutely learn something from the Teahadist's.
This is one of those things in spades....
The only way we can achieve "Wins" is if we are ready to cause losses.
Anything less will be met with complete disdain by the DNC.
If we can't threaten them with losses and hold up to that threat we will NEVER have any leverage in that party.
Sometimes the only path to victory is by a few massive defeats, and right now I see little light between the two parties so there is no time like the present to suffer them.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
"Do what we say, or we'll... vote for you repeatedly..."
LOL!
She's shaking in her Prada's.
Perfectly put!
it's the obama doctrine.
give away the farm, then suggest what to plant.
i don't know when this type of strategy has ever worked, anywhere... but then, i'm not in constitutional law.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
"but then, i'm not in constitutional law."
From what I've been able to observe, Obama really isn't into that constitutional law all that much himself.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
In teaching, he focused mostly on civil rights at first, then
on civil rights and other aspects of voting. Constitutional law is broader than that, though civil/equal rights are key to how much of the bill of rights has been interpreted by courts.
Who cares what he did when 'teaching'? I'm talking about
what he's done in real life.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Worked for whom? For you and me, or for Obama?
I am not among those who believe that Republicans are constantly outsmarting and intimidating Democrats. I am among those who believe that Democrats and Republicans are both doing pretty much what they want to do. However, because of their history and nature of their respective bases, Republicans can be relatively straightforward about it, while Democrats have to engage in kabuki theater much more often and to a much greater degree.
Many lay members of the left assume that Democrats are trying to do what most Americans want done and just somehow inadvertently failing. I don't assume that.
Do you enjoy reading between the lines?
http://prospect.org/article/how-dlc-does-it
Your vote matters
so make sure you throw it away before it (gasp!) makes a difference.
It was fun Bernie, but it's time for us to see other people.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Hey, he left us.
He's the one who started seeing other people.
And the other people were real shits, too.
Thing is, I think they have him over a barrel.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I refuse to vote for the
I refuse to vote for the barrel.
That is hilarious.
Nice to meet you, crescentmoon!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Goodbye Bernie Sanders
He's as disappointing as Hope & Change. Right up there with Howard Dean
WTF happens to these people? Who bought them??? Wonder what the price was? Just goes to show you, they DO have a price, and obviously it was met, and they're DONE. TOAST. OVER.
I'm DONE with all of them. DONE.
asdf
Why do you believe that Sanders was bought off? What the actual fuck, people? Howard Dean didn't have half the record Sanders had. It's so sickening to read it because it was fucking obvious the guy got worked over. He didn't get bought. He got BEAT.
Can I prove that? No. But the guy is obviously a shell of his former self, and no longer sounds convincing. He doesn't believe the shit coming out of his mouth now any more than you or I do. Just....move past this. He was not in control of this destiny from Day Fucking One.
Our Federal system is what's
And that is what finally broke this longtime-demonstrably-honorable man. He thought he could turn the Establishment away from their mafiazation, and he got worked over. He's probably lucky to be walking upright.
I agree with you.
Can't prove it, of course, but it's what I think.
I don't know why that's harder to believe than spinelessness or bribery, but it seems to be for a lot of people.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Maybe he didn't want
to be on the list of senators who died in plane crashes.
He's only a year younger than me.
Half a dozen of my friends in High School never made it to age 21. They died on the other side of the world so corrupt dictators could keep sending money to Swiss banks.
Is his life so precious that he would sell out his country for it? Mine isn't. I'm not in a hurry to die, but I'd rather die like a man than live as a traitor.
He got those youngsters involved. Now he tells them "It wasn't real. It was just a game. You are garbage and always will be, slaves to Wall Street."
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
He has children and grandchildren. n/t
So do I
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Dying like a man
means you're still just as dead as if you'd died like anything else.
Maybe. Maybe his wife or children or grandchildren would come to harm. And if that even came close to happening to you, I would submit that you would do the same for your own flesh and blood. If your son or daughter or grandchild or wife or husband were going to die over a choice you made, you'd make sure you made the choice that protected them.
You can't possibly believe you would not. If you believe it, you've never been so threatened.
And what's the point of dying
And what's the point of dying a hero's death if it means that your work is over? Some times as a change agent you have to lay low for awhile, still continuing your work, and come out in public when the time is right.
Sometimes too, you have to hand the torch to others. Bernie has inspired a flame in all of us, maybe its only a match right now, and we will continue as a whole to evolve and before long it will be a whole movement. A huge beacon of light. A new political party. A change to our current culture.
Maybe he's simply practicing when he's been preaching for 20
years. According to Nader, in 1996, Sanders campaigned for Bill Clinton and asked Nader to drop out of the race. In 2000, Sanders campaigned for Gore and condemned Nader. In 2011, he refused many requests to try to primary Obama, or to run as an indie against Obama.
And...http://caucus99percent.com/comment/176027#comment-176027
Completey agree.
He underestimated the vast scale of the cold murderousness.
Today we see in him how we'd appear to ethical people if we were voting for the Establishment candidate.
It doesn't matter - the outcome is the same.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
^ All of this.
Who are you, old man?
I want to ask the old man stumping for Hillary one question in public at a rally:
He's a freakin' changeling, I tell you!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
And He Should Know!
Dennis Who? (Just being snarky! I supported Dennis over the years.)
A couple more recent examples who could have used some support from Bernie Sanders are Alan Grayson and Tim Canova. I can't recall any other Democrat being told by Harry Reid that he (Reid) would work against his (Grayson) election in every way he could. Canova was promised support by Sanders and never received it. It might have been sufficient to get DWS out of our lives for a while.
I supported Bernie's campaign. I thought I could believe in him. His collapse just before the Convention, however, showed me that I was mistaken about him, especially when Bernie allowed his followers to walk out without him.
#JillNotHill
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
I've sent donations to Dennis.
Ethnic socialist from the city: What's not to like. a good guy I think.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
I've sent donations to Dennis.
Ethnic socialist from the city: What's not to like. a good guy I think.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
So nice, I had to say it twice!
(sorry for the double post)
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Lest We Forget...
how nasty the Democratic Leadership (Council) can be.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
the DNC underbelly in one video...
That was a great video-thanks for sharing.
Note the gash on Bernie's cheek at 5.25.
The perfect antidote...
for a bad case of the Hillarys.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Exactly
When I used the words "worked over" upthread, that was also a literal reference....
One commenter for that video
noted that the gash on Bernie's cheek was there earlier, following an event in New Hampshire.
Does someone know the date when his Secret Service protection stopped?
From at least 2011, Bernie said he would not run as "a spoiler."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/21/bernie-sanders-socialist-v...
Before that, Sanders condemned Nader for having run as "a spoiler" and campaigned for Gore (as he had for Bill Clinton).
Throughout the primary, when asked if he would support Hillary if he lost the primary, Bernie would say something like, "Don't worry. I'm going to do all I can to make sure a Republican does not get to be President."
Bernie endorsed Hillary on July 12. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/ He enthused over her during Democratic National Convention in July.
But, in September 2016, he has a mark on his cheek and it's because he was roughed up to endorse Hillary on Morning Joe?I assure you, if a 75-year old man had been beaten to appear on TV, all his bruises would be on his legs and torso, where the viewing audience would never see them unless he chose to undress on national television. And that's even if an amateur, like my Dad, had been in charge of the beating, let alone a pro.
ETA: My mistake: wrong video. The gash was on Bernie cheek at the convention (well after he had endorsed Hillary on July 12), not when he was on Morning Joe in September. Everything else in this post still applies though. Bernie was not beaten up to do what he had been promising for over a year he would do if he lost the primary; and, if he had been beaten, the marks would have been on his torso and legs, not his face.
I realize that those of us who gave their all to support Sanders during the primary very much want to believe that Bernie did not voluntarily endorse Hillary. However, to believe that, you also have to believe that Bernie lied in 2000 when he condemned Nader and campaigned for Gore; Bernie lied in 2011 when he said he (Bernie) would never run as a spoiler; Bernie lied throughout the primary when he said that, if he lost the primary, he would do all he could to help Hillary defeat the Republican nominee; and Bernie lied on July 12 when he endorsed Hillary with no "gash" on his cheek.
And then, you also need to believe that the DNC or the Clintons or whomever, got, to beat Bernie, idiots who had no idea how to rough up a man of 75 without leaving marks that the entire audience of the convention would see, both those who were present in person and those all over the world viewing by television. Men in suits are covered from neck to soles of shoes, so let's mark Bernie's face to make sure everyone can see he was beaten to make him behave consistently with what he's been saying since Nader ran against Gore?
Occam's razor.
The gash was during the
The gash was during the convention, not in September. The video up thread (8:37pm Not Henry Kissinger) was done by a young woman who alluded to something happening to Bernie at 5.25 minutes into the video. She also documented other shenanigans during the convention, which you might want to check out.
I thought the reference was to another video. However,
I stand everything else in my post, including that Bernie had been promising for over a year to help the winner of the primary defeat the Republican nominee. When Trump became the presumptive nominee, he used Trump's name. He did not have to be beaten into doing what he had been promising to do for over a year. And, if he had been beaten, the marks would not show, I promise you.
Thank you Not Heney Kissinger
This sums up exactly what went down at the Democratic convention. I watched I saw what happened. No one should forget what we all witnessed with our lying eyes. Then again Oh my God Trump. Seriously who the fuck cares? It makes my head spin when people online tell me vote Hillary. Bejeesus I may get irritated with this site but no one here tells me to vote for the psycho killer or else we will all ?????. Good God who wants The Hairball but then again who the fuck wants the The Mad Bomber. Never ever in my long life time have I ever witnessed such overt blatant madness. USA! USA! USA! No thanks and fuck you Bernie. Gimme a break. Even if they beat you up why stump for the bitch and negate every thing you stood for.
James Sanders
was one of only two New York City politicians that supported Bernie Sanders. The Democratic establishment tried to take him out and Bernie did nothing to help him. I think he won the primary, because the local papers wrote about the ones that lost only, and I did not see his name in the reports.
It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan
Bernie, Warren and Sherrod Brown can all kiss my ass.
This primary was the straw that broke the donkey's back. Done with that party. I don't think Green is the answer, but then, Trump and Hillary sure aren't the answer either.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Come on, go Green. You know you want to. eom
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Dear Bernie:
No.
Your friend,
Can'tStopTheSignal
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I love you Bernie and probably always will.
But I can't help you on this one, pal. No offense, but you're on your own with this Hillary thing.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
always will
totally agree with you, hillbilly dem
The thing is, I don't think he expects us to follow him.
Two very different campaigns for the same spot. Not usual in modern-day politics. Generally candidates seem to take positions that are similar, different only in detail, like butter vs margarine, or sugar vs Splenda vs Stevia. This one was for the soul of the Dem party, clear divisions from the outset. 1% vs 99%. And 1% won, and expects the 99% to line up and take it. Wrong on that for the true believer that the course is totally wrong and the iceberg is closing.
I see a detached Bernie. He still believes in the System. He told us to Not Believe.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I like your user name Will Rodgers Guthrie
That's a name that says or sings it all.
One other thought.
Once Bernie threw us all under the bus, what makes him or them think we give a shit what he says?
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
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That conveniently ignores and totally skips over the fact
that a.) he won, and b.) they stole the fucking election. He didn't say. "even if I win and/or they steal it".
Bernie, Sherrod Brown and Elizabeth Warren have all sunk to the level of politicians worried more about themselves than the country or people in it. They and their Democratic Party will never get support out of me even if they're out there banging on the drums for "food for the poor". They all told us to FU, now it is their turn. The duopoly needs to die - all of it.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
No fucking kidding.
That kind of makes things different, doesn't it?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
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Betrayal is an outcome,
His supporters backed him because they believed he would fight for them - not quit, fold, sell out, cave, take a dive, or whatever you want to call it, just like Obama did and Hillary will. He clearly betrayed the "supporters of his presidential run" because he quit and endorsed Hillary when it was obvious that she stole the election. Regardless of why, Bernie, like Gore, ran away from the fight with his tail between his legs.
I never said why Bernie quit , so don't put words in my mouth. All I do know is that he quit, and quitting when robbed, betrayed his supporters. His supporters know if they'be been betrayed, not insiders. I didn't give Bernie money to reward his past behavior/career. I gave him money to help him kick Hillary's neoliberal ass moving forward. You can like it or not. Unlike you, I really don't care what you or others on the internet think of me or my opinions. I don't like identity politics. You know the kind that says as long as it's my team/guy, it is ok. No matter how much it sucks, they can't acknowledge it.
Again, my response is not meant to be personal. You have your opinions. I have mine. We really don't need each other's blessings.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I would like to see one of you answer this question directly:
and thank you, bbO, for asking it so pointedly:
This question is to you here, dkmich, but not limited to you. I'd like to see you OR the relative handful of habitual "He Fucked Us All Because He's A Greedy Fucking Fuck, Because We Said So!" people around here have been politely asked for a realistic response to that question. More than once, your allies have asked you to make the connection between "He quit" and "He is a greedy son of a bitch that didn't mean a fucking word he said". And not one of you will do that.
Why won't one of you directly address that specific point? Do you or do you not believe there could be more than one reason why he "rolled over"?
Oh good grief
Your hypocrisy sometimes just astounds.
Don't let anyone dare to ask for supporting evidence of their (your) conclusions about Hilary's health issues; you are always there shouting speculation is allowed here!
But can you allow anyone to reach their own conclusions about Bernie if they happen to disagree with you? No way! You want proof!
For the record, I don't even agree with those who call Bernie a sellout. But if you're going to reserve the right to make unsupported assumptions about one issue, it's ridiculous to turn around and insist on evidence for other people's opinions.
I'm trying to understand their opinion
Where do you see me demanding they PROVE their opinion?
Please point the sentence or sentences out, and I will make amends.
If you just wanted to understand dk's opinion,
You could do that by reading the comment she just wrote above on why she feels the way she does about it. She explained it in great detail. What more exactly are you asking for, in questioning her on "where are you getting this?"
What I am getting at is
this didn't happen.
He did not quit. He got run off.
Hence, the question:
Because it's not just posts here, today. It's been going on for awhile. People blame him, only him now. WTF?? Really? The guy got cheated. Hoodwinked. And probably threatened. How is THAT not possible? How is THAT never acknowledged? How is it only "He fucked us over because he's just like them"? And with our "media" in the state it's in, who can possibly believe that he could have "spoken up" and "fought back"?
I have struggled with some of this for awhile. I guess I don't know how else to put it but this:
IF he was coerced; threatened; beaten; whatthefuckEVER--then he didn't do it to us.
THEY did it to HIM.
HE didn't do it to YOU or ME.
THEY did it to HIM. THEY did it to US.
HE did not do it to US.
We have got to make that distinction if we are going to move much further forward.
Whatever you want to call it? Really? He fucked us all over because he
Seriously? Or did he fuck us over because they were bigger than him and he alone couldn't stop them, and he couldn't make them leave him alone-he had to go out and campaign for
that bitchHer Heinous because they needed him for some filthy dirty work? Because having a bunch of demoralized people helps THEM perfectly?Look--not me, US. Remember? If we're to band together to do anything about any of this shit, we've first got to understand the difference between a declaration of opinion and a declaration of repetitive demoralizing incorrect information. The latter is not good for any of us.
Well said Luna!! n/t
You have literally zero evidence that he was "run off"
Or that he was threatened or forced to support Clinton. None, except that's what you choose to believe. It's pure speculation. Dk sees it differently, as is her right.
Bernie said he lost. Jane said they lost. They both said they believe that they lost, and that they are supporting Hillary now because they don't want Trump to win. You are calling them both liars, with no evidence.
That's your opinion. Dk's opinion is that he should have fought instead on conceding or accepting the loss.
As far as I'm concerned you are both entitled to those opinions, and have the right to express them. I don't actually agree fully with either view, but I'm on my way out tonight and don't have time to go into it, nor do I think it matters. I'm just very annoyed at anyone telling dk she hasn't "earned the right" to express a different view.
And, look up ^^ to the post you agreed with
Which said to dkmich:
Dk was called "irresponsible" and literally told she had no right to express her opinions, unless she had "insider information" that validated her feelings and opinion.
You amplified that post. Which I still find mind blowing, especially from you, one of the most prevalent purveyors of unsupported speculation and wild ass guessing on this site. Only as long as it's speculations you happen to like and agree with, of course.
CS, I too did not get the
CS, I too did not get the point that DK was trying to make. Sure, there were words on the page, but I didn't understand her message either. Sorry.
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