Discouraging Protest Vote, Sanders Says: Elect Clinton—Then Mobilize
Reiterating why he thinks it is crucial for the future of the country, as well as the planet, that Republican nominee Donald Trump not be elected U.S. president, former Democratic candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders called on his supporters Friday to "think hard" before casting a protest vote.
"Let us elect Hillary Clinton as president and that day after let us mobilize millions of people around the progressive agenda which was passed in the Democratic platform." —Sen. Bernie Sanders"Look, I was a third-party candidate. I began my career running as a third party, getting 2 percent and then 1 percent," Sanders said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe." "I'm the longest serving independent in the history of the U.S. Congress, but I think that before you cast a protest vote, because [Hillary] Clinton or Trump will be president, think hard about it. This is not a governor's race. It's not a state legislative race. This is the presidency of the United States."
The remarks were made one day after new polling found that roughly a third of likely voters aged 18-29 are considering voting for a third party candidate. Sanders said that he understands that voters are "not enamored" with their choices, but emphasized the importance of looking "at the issues."
"If you are a working person, do you really think that billionaires need a large tax break? Which is what Trump is proposing. If you are an ordinary American who listens to science, do you think its a good idea that the President of the United States rejects science and says that climate change is a hoax?" he asked. "I think that if you look at the issues—raising minimum wage, building infrastructure, expanding healthcare—Clinton, by far, is the superior candidate."
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/09/16/discouraging-protest-vote-sa...
***
Well, finally. After all the bullshit I've told myself about hanging in and seeing what Sanders is really up to, staying in to see if he really had something 'up his sleeve', I finally hit the hard brick wall of reality. This old duffer can bite my ass. He's turned us over to the neo-liberal wing of the Democratic Party to be screwed over. I don't care what he said about 'supporting the nominee'. The 'nominee' is a lying crooked cheating ($&^$ who robbed us of a fair primary. And if he thinks he's going have any power after this, he needs to go talk to Dennis Kucinich and see what happens to those who try to fight the official party line.
Anyway during the primary, weren't we told by the Clintonistas that they didn't need us anyway? Both Sanders and HillBillary can go bugger off.
Comments
I'll probably be laughed at and called a loser but I LIKE Ralph
Nader. He's honest, he cares, he's not out for himself. I voted for Gore even though I thought he was a totally disinterested politician who really didn't want to be President. And in the end, I think I was proven right when he didn't even fight for it. I've always wished I had stood on principle back then and voted for Nader over Gore.
Nader has actually done some good for the real people in this country. not just the rich.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I voted for Nader
And I'm voting Jill this time. Her Heinous, the DNC and the Democratic Party can go f*ck themselves.
My only fear is what will happen in the streets if they pull the same fraudulent shit in the GE as they did in the primaries. I'm in Texas. There will be blood, and that will be horrible to see.
I keep seeing the H commercials which
point to all the Republicans backing her (or denying backing Trump) and if I were a Republican I could see voting for her. But I'm not a Republican. If I were a neocon I could vote for H, but I'm not a neocon. This will be the first time since 1968 I won't vote for the Democratic Candidate.
IF Clinton wins
Then what message is sent? What is her mandate?
I do not endorse this message. I will not vote for that mandate
You forgot 'All of the above'
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
You forgot
election rigging is A-OK! It works!
I imagine that we are supposed to see Republicans saying
that they cannot bring themselves to vote for Trump and think, "If Trump is so unacceptable, even to Republicans, then I should really vote for Hillary, to make sure he doesn't win." However, my thought is, "I am not the least bit surprised that Republicans want to vote for Hillary. Probably for all the same reasons, I would never vote for her."
#NeverHillary
Yes, HRC is a R ~
It is becoming apparent that Trump may be more to the left on a few positions than is Hillary.
- less of a war hawk
- against TPP
I am voting for the person I believe
best recognizes the needs of the people of this country.
It isn't a protest, and not my conscience. It is what I know about the 4 candidates, and my very thoughtful selection.
I choose Stein.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I will not live my life in fear. I will not vote out of fear.
Hillary and Trump are the two sides of the same corporate neo-liberal coin. Both will be a disaster for this country and the people in it. There won’t be a dime’s worth of difference between their policies. Both will cause significant damage. Trump will only have 4 years to try. Hillary would have 8 years.
I was Bernie or Bust but now…
Bernie is now a collaborator in that disaster. When he says I should vote for Hillary, I feel a knife in my back! There is nothing he can say that will get me to vote for Hillary. He can’t scare me with Trump. He did talk a good game, but when push came to shove, he decided to sheepdog his supporters for the candidate that will be the most damaging to progressives ideals. If Hillary does win, she will turn so hard right that this country will have whiplash! She is a Goldwater Republican. She will be able to work with the Republican leadership to implement all the GOP policies that you are afraid of, because she is one of them. Trump has not been a politician his whole life and is not admired or trusted by the GOP leadership. He will run into some resistance to his policy proposals.
Hillary, the DNC, and the the super delegates lied, cheated, & stole the nomination from Bernie. I will not reward that behavior,even if Bernie chooses to do so. This Democratic Party needs to be utterly destroyed or it will just keep doing what we have now confirmed they have been doing all my life. (I am 58 years young.) I will not be a part of it any longer by voting for the lessor of 2 evils. Evil is evil. Period. Full stop. They do not deserve our support and they will not get mine.
I’ve Gone Green Jill/Baraka 2016!
AMERICAN ends in I CAN!
Good for Bernie! Sucks for the rest of us!
He gets his power positions. His family is safe.
BUT MINE IS NOT.
I am not.
He is compromised.
I AND MINE ARE FUCKED.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Nope, ain't happenin' --
ensure that The $hill IS NOT elected, and THEN mobilize --
... can't mobilize against a "Progressive" "Dem", of course, can we?
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
On one condition
You want me to vote for Clinton? Then Clinton needs to push for the destruction of the two party system.
Bernie, I loved you. I trusted you. Look at my name. I am a Bernunist. But you need to get back speaking against the two party system. We need you.
Amen. If not Bernie,
who? Still feeling the bern.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
With all due respect, Sen. Sanders, I will be casting my vote,
not casting a protest vote.
I will never again vote for a New Democrat. Never. Again.
“Protest” vote? Any vote is as valid as any other vote
To paraphrase what comedian Liz Feldman said about marriage equality:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robyn-harper/marriage-equality_b_1572611.html
Come on, Bernie, it’s not a “protest vote,” it’s vote equality. Every marriage is as valid as any other marriage, and any vote is as valid as any other vote.
#JillnotHill
The Bern has Berned out.
Bernie's argument, in a nutshell
You must vote for a candidate whom you know in your head and in your heart will fuck you over six ways to Sunday, because if you don't the election will be won by a candidate who will also fuck you over six ways to Sunday, but even harder.
The counter-argument:
To paraphrase the Yevgraf character in the film Dr. Zhivago, in conventional terms the election represents an ideological battle between centrist, corporate-friendly Democrats and far right, corporate-friendly Republicans. In revolutionary terms, the election is a battle for supremacy between competing factions of the oligarchy, both equally venal, corrupt, and criminally indifferent to the mega-catastrophic consequences of their toxic and insanely destructive and irresponsible policies. And this being so, which of them wins, to any thinking person, is rightly a matter of indifference.
To put it bluntly, I don't have a dog in this fight. Bernie says I do, but I know he's full of shit. And I know that millions of people out there have come to exactly the same realization. Inevitably, as time goes by, millions more will as well. The Democratic Party has, over time, become as completely useless, and every bit as disconnected from anything that is right or true or in the service of justice, as the Whig Party of 160-some years ago, and needs to suffer the same fate.
My vote for Jill Stein on November 8 will put one more tiny nail in the coffin of what used to be the party of Jefferson, but is now more the party of Goldman-Sachs and Exxon-Mobil. And the thing is, ultimately the sell-out, back-stabbing Vichy Democrats did it to themselves. How can you repeatedly throw huge segments of the public under the bus, and yet believe they will continue to assist you in their own destruction?
inactive account
Trump is the symptom; Clinton is the disease.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/16/trump-is-the-symptom-clinton-is-t...
So true
And this is something that really can't be over-emphasized. If the middle class were not entirely shut out of the political system, if the system was so structured that its interests were fairly and effectively represented, an unhinged neo-fascist candidate like Trump would never get out of the starting gate. It is only because neo-liberalism, as represented by the Clintons, Gore, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, etc., has ruthlessly and systematically cut off people of average means from any kind of meaningful representation in government, that hate-mongering, scapegoating demagogues like Trump can gain any traction. There is no way one can meaningfully talk about getting rid of Trump-ism without also talking about getting rid of Clinton-ism. The two go together like flies and dog shit.
inactive account
"...flies and dogshit."
Wow, if I thought the phrase, "Trump is the symptom; Clinton is the disease," distilled it well, you really brought it home w/ flies and dogshit!
The author sure takes that 90% Pew figure seriously.
90% of Bernie supporters will support Hill? In a pig's eye.
Even if 90% said they would--which I strongly doubt, not unless someone built the poll to generate just such results, as Lee Camp discusses here:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB_ZlLfKWig]
Hey, guys--spread this video around, because when I search "lee camp "polls are wrong" " Google doesn't bring up the video.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The polls no longer count "Millennials"
(ages 18-35) on various flimsy and specious excuses (not enough of them / they have no consensus / they don't vote, etc. etc. etc.) IMHO they don't DARE include that age group, as it would spoil their pretty, and totally fictitious, picture.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
We don't know what
we don't know. What we do know is 1., Bernie said months before the Convention that he would support the nominee, and, 2., Bernie has made attempts, albeit lame, to continue the bern "movement" long beyond November.
I don't see what was said in Ohio changes anything beyond Philly. He said the exact same things there. Nothing has changed. Bernie likely gives Her Highness her six month honeymoon before turning back into the Bernie of last Spring. Or not. Still feeling the bern.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I'll be voting for Stein in Florida
Bernie can't change my mind. I will not vote for Clinton. Even if I were the deciding vote I would not vote for Clinton.
The "most liberal platform ever" is a joke.
With respect, Sen. Sanders ...
... I decline.
I'm going to have to unsubscribe to Our Revolution
Standing over the abyss is possible only when one is willing to act out of integrity rather than fear. There are many opportunities every day to love and cherish those in our lives. This will have to be enough for now.
Poor Bernie Sanders to not be able to see right action.
What a great way to put it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm not protesting.
By voting for stein, I'm standing up & having my vote counted as left of the Democratic Party.
Yeah, that's how I feel about this mess, too.
Frankly, imo Stein is the least bad choice, but that's also the direction I'm headed. I liked before-convention-Bernie. I am not a millennial. If Trumpence takes my state by one vote (doubtful) I may have regrets about my choice. I liked Hilllary in 2008, but those days are long gone. Obama has been a big disappointment, and I am not going to be frightened by trump or teased by gender-appeal into voting for more neoliberalism and less democracy, not this time.
But I recognize that if President Trumpence actually tries to enact his crazy agenda, and if he ends up with the Senate, both domestic and foreign policy actions are going to get a lot crazier than they were under President Bucheney.
President Trumpence has promised his base to shut down Planned Parenthood, he is promising to resume torture, he is promising lots-o-war, and he is promising to nominate RWNJs to the supreme court so that he'll probably face little pushback and checking-n-balancing from the system-as-it-was-intended-to-operate. What's Trumpence gonna do about those campaign promises? Is the best we can hope for gonna turn out to be that Trumpence is some kind of stooge put up by the ptb with the intention of frightening Americans into voting for Billary?
~annominous
It's possible I'm just in denial, but I'm not very worried about
Trump actually getting his crazy agenda or wacky promises enacted. He's full of campaign bluster and pandering, but there will be no wall built between the US and Mexico, no mass deportations or banning immigration based on religion. I expect he would encounter massive resistance in congress and be blocked by both parties until and unless he reins it in. He's already changing his tone to broaden his appeal. He's an actor, he can change his performance to whatever.
And when it comes to wars and more wars, supporting the rich and screwing the rest of us, wrecking the environment and economy ... the Clintons are just as bad if not worse, and actually are far more likely to have cooperation in congress to enact damaging policies.
I've been of the mindset that they are equally terrible, but lately I'm starting to think that however bad trump is, and he is horrendous - but Hillary losing is still preferable, because getting rid of the Clintons once and for all is the best outcome for the longer term. I don't want trump as president, but I do want the Clintons to lose and be forced to go. the. fuck. away.
I can't bring myself to actually vote for trump, but I find myself looking forward to Hillary losing to him. What a legacy for the Clintons and Obama to live with - you fucked over so many people so badly for so long, the country chose trump. Deal with that, democrats. And be ashamed.
Hey CS in AZ ! So good to see you !
Heh, are you missing the GOS cliques yet ??? imo this place is refreshing and relaxing on its own merits. But especially by comparison.
I don't know why the idea of a Clinton dynasty was acceptable to me in 2008, but not 2016. Gotta admit I didn't give it much thought in '08, just wanted to help elect the first female POTUS. When Obama won the nom I lined up like I was supposed to for hope-n-change, but on election night in 2008, when Obama announced that "change has come to America" I got a little creeped out. Because McCain would have delivered the same change, if a simple change of administration was the jist of Obama's hope-n-change campaign. McCain might have done better at jailing the banksters and righting the economy than Obama did, though Palin would have been a terrifying spectre (apologies to Arlen) for the last 8 years.
If HRC loses (looks like that won't happen, even now, per PEC but Wang is warning about the effect on his predictions as newer polls start to gain more weight) then the dems will blame the Greens, just like they continue to blame Nader voters since 2000 for Gore's big loss. They still blame all the evil sh*t Bush/Cheney perpetrated on the world on Nader voters too, even though Gore didn't even carry his own state in 2000.
Every once in a while I hear pundits joking about Chelsea's presidency. Not looking forward to more Bill. Let's hope he's gotten too old and sick to be eyeing the interns. But his impulses continue to be tone deaf -- why did he corner Lynch at the Phoenix airport ? Isn't he smarter than that ? hmmm, guess not.
~annominous
**waves & smiles** hey annominous! Good to see you here too!
Nope, I don't miss the great orange satan, with its dysfunctional "community moderation" and the self-important, self-appointed roving gangs of hall monitors in the least! I love this site, it's so much better.
I do miss some of the good people from there who for whatever reason still haven't found their way here. I knew I had to leave as soon as it was decreed: "All Hail Hillary" -- that was the final straw.
I didn't think she could actually manage to lose to Trump. But lately it's starting to look like I might have underestimated her incompetence. If she does lose, they can blame Bernie Sanders, the kids, the left in general, and you're right, they will. I just don't care about that! We will blame the Clintons and neoliberals for selling out the people. After seeing the crowds that came out for Bernie, I think the next generation is ready for real change. Here's hoping. Cheers.
Just thought I had better join in.
I'm in agreement with most of you that Jill Stein is the only principled candidate. The two major parties need to either join into one right wing party or just die. We need a party of the left and the Greens are what is on offer. The real fight is against our corporate masters of course, but we need a political party for accomplishing our goal. I just want to join in the chorus.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
Yep, Demexit for real and
Yep, Demexit for real and Jill before Hill 2016 for me.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
I don't have a problem with
I don't have a problem with what Bernie is saying. I think the decision to vote third party and risk a Trump win isn't one to be made lightly. I'm not saying it's the wrong decision, but I think it's one that reasonable, like-minded people can disagree over.
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