The Dreaded Site Meta - Shills and Thrills
Good evening friends and fellow judges of the Great Quadrennial National Beauty Pageant, whose season is now upon us.
Now that the preliminary rounds are over and we roll inexorably on to The Marking of the Ballots, it seems that many are concerned about the appearance of shills showing up at our virtual doorstep attempting to work the judges like a horde of deranged, door-knocking religious fanatics seeking converts.
But seriously folks, let's have a talk about shills.
Hi, I'm Joe, one of your two friendly neighborhood admins and in this piece I am using my "speaking for the site" voice.
Yes, it seems quite likely that paid shills will indeed show up here. Perhaps some have already posted things here.
It's hard to tell exactly who is a shill.
Because the site is non-partisan and we welcome civil discussion and disagreement across a range of topics with a left/progressive orientation, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a shill.
If you feel that someone is crossing a line, please notify the moderators. They are just a click away.
We are disinclined to make up a bunch of rules about shills, shillery and shill-hunting. Getting the rules just right to fit all circumstances is a futile task.
We would like to note (pay attention a clue is about to be born) that one of the things that we found pretty awful about another site of our acquaintance was the carefully-constructed name-calling campaigns and the gaggles of self-appointed "troll hunters" that would sometimes form into vigilante mobs.
It is our opinion that, more dangerous to the site than a few shills who might post essays and comments that are far from the mainstream of opinion here are people who create a culture of suspicion and hostility towards people with divergent opinions.
Shills who come here to post are going to get (polite) pushback - a lot of it, from what we have seen to date. They will quickly realize that they cannot make a sale here. Their ideas are not a threat to our community.
On the site currently, we have articulate, interesting people with a range of opinions about various topics, including the latest hot button, election-related events. There are smart, decent people here who just plain disagree about some things. Politely. And they like each other. And they are all left/progressive people.
Let's not let a few outliers throw us off our game.
Thanks!
Comments
Perfectly said
Best response to a shill or troll? *crickets*
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Thanks Joe
You are so right. A few shills is 10x better than roving gangs of witch hunters.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
heh, here you go:
Oops...
I embedded it for her while you were posting this.
because . . .
you got the power!
lol - thank you both...
I got up, got coffee, went to computer and was on the way here with the embed. I'll add this instead.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Zoot!
And then after the spankings, we shall have....
great movie.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Well, I suppose I could stay a BIT longer...
Although I must admit, I've been enjoying the "Secret Policeman's Ball" recently, which heavily featured many of the Pythons as well as Rowan Atkinson and Peter Cook...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
"Will this wind.... be so mighty...."
Such good stuff there!
Wait Which Witch?
Freakin Witchcraft , I freakin knew it.
Is this the point when we all dance naked around the campfire? Cuz that's my favorite part. Hahhaha.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Right on! This place is the destroyer of shills.
Future and present shills beware, your shit won't sell here. You will leave saddened and tail tucked neatly away since a reality based community won't fall for it.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
I love this site.
You guys are so rational - and nice. Important qualities.
shills?
Okay, I miss a lot on some days. Seems to me, one misguided person posted an essay about shills, and prompted people talking like Shills are a huge concern around here. I hadn't noticed!
yeah, not to worry...
it was a thing for a couple of days. there were undercurrents, there were a couple of spills in aisle 9. we wanted to restore our pleasant state of equilibrium.
Bravo! And thank you.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Thanks joe
You and Johnny, and your wonderful team of moderators have created an engaging and well cared for place to be. One of the best decisions made was not to identify the 'thumbs up’. It’s such a pleasure to participate with respectful and sympathetic people.
Will the Poke-A-Shill Go app still work?
Or is it being discontinued? LOL
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
I like shills.
It sucks constantly agreeing with all the smart people here.
Gotta admit, sometimes its nice to take out one's frustrations on a vacuous, out-of-touch, over clever, pathetically soulless, money grubbing stenographer pushing the latest corporate focus group psy ops.
Keeps you sharp.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
heh...
a lot of people enjoy the bloodsport of debate and feel that it keeps them sharp. they are probably correct about that.
the thing is, one of the reasons that i figured that top was a really lousy platform for organizing was that it was constantly engaged in self-policing for ideological conformity. placing the burden of policing the site on its users created a sort of personal overhead that in practice meant that not a lot else got done and it discouraged participation by those not skilled at debate.
we are hoping that here, without people taking on the role of the ideological police, it will free them to engage in community building and activism - and regular folks who are not debaters won't be worrying that if they post some thoughts, somebody who has been sitting in the corner sharpening their knives is going to proceed to rhetorically cut them to pieces.
So when I say something stupid
If my heart is in the right place, I can at least look forward to making it out alive, though perhaps not unbruised... Sounds like home.
Now interviewing signature candidates. Apply within.
heh...
with any luck, minimal bruising.
the point is we want a culture that promotes working together, not scrapping at each other.
i greatly respect sharp people who can argue well, it's a fabulous talent. however, it is not the only talent needed to make social change.
Just to be on the safe side, terriertribe: No Coumadin!
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
the debaters who sharpen their knives to rhetorically
cut gullible people into pieces ... to eat them up ... cannibals.
I didn't grew up with "debate classes or clubs" in my high school years. We also didn't have boxing as a sport in school. That' explains it. We also didn't have reading list that were enforced on us. That's why we are less "educated". But I felt free to say what I want. Nobody every said to me NOT to read this or that. Nor did someone every told me whom to vote for. Nor did people let me know I wasn't the sharpest knife around.
This place comes closest to what I think freedom of expression with compassion and empathy should be.
Thank you.
@dNotHenryKissinger, I thought you were going to say
that shills give us a little relief from all the smart people on this site. Like it's fun to have a stupid one show up once in a while.
Thanks, joe!
You and JtC are the best. The mods are great, too, and chime in right at the correct time. If we all remember that we are individuals, and not sheeple, we'll be just fine. Cheers!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Shills? Whatevers... Squirrel!
Now from the Department of Squirrel Distraction:
More importantly... this year it will be HALLOWEEKEND! Entire weekend can be devoted to the best holiday ever. (We kinda sorta dig Halloween in my house.)
From last year:
Mine, Daughter's, and Daughter's Boyfriend (his first pumpkin carving ever)
My Donnie Darko Scarecrow Pumpkin.
So I prefer Thrillers over Shrillers.
Thanks for this wonderful sanctuary Joe and JtC!
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Try Halloween in Michigan.....
Costumes over coats. I think I put my daughter into therapy one year. She was going out tricking and treating with her two cousins, and the weather forecast said cold and wet. So I put them in jeans and long johns, cut leg holes in black trash bags, tied them up around their necks, and put black watch caps on them. Then with light reflective tape, they were named: trash or recyclables. My daughter never forgave me for sending them out as curb side pickup.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
we had a term for trash bag dressing: Dread Spud.
It still makes me laugh. And I always sent my littles out in costumes and coats. Halloween was once an epic snowstorm here.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I was afraid
you dressed them in black bags and had them go as the invisible man. Or a dry cleaning bag over their head as spacemen.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
grew up in the NW
Halloween meant rain.
Never did the fairy or ballerina type costumes. Witches could always stay warm with the stake and pitchforks.
Oh and we always made our own costumes. Never those store bought crap. Blech.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Well said!
It's why I like coming here.
Yes yes
Yes and yes
Thanks
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Thank you, joe.
Very well said.
Agreed
"Never argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." –Mark Twain
There's only one way to deal with Trolls...
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
When I feel trollish
or notice one lurking about, I pull Izzy Swan's Troll Remedy.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BavWDFTRsQA
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Heh, lolz, haHahaHa, good one....
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
Shills? I get it, I really do
you people here have values and there's nothing wrong with that, although it's a bit old-fashioned and does get in the way of the most important problem we've ever faced as a nation. And that is Donald Trump! Donald Trump makes Hitler look like Glinda the Good Witch. Just think how awful it would be if Donald Trump wins the election. He'd appoint judges just like Scalia! He might even appoint Scalia, himself! (I wonder if they put that pillow in Scalia's casket....) I can see Donald Trump digging up Scalia and appointing him! Or paying somebody to do it. No, promising to pay somebody and then "stiffing" him! (haha)
So in conclusion, I think it's time for you BernieBros to put aside your childish ways and vote for Hillary Clinton. To stop Donald Trump! To continue President Obama's legacy of being the President of all the People Except Left-Leaning Democrats.
Happily Shah, I will vote Green and thus NO.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Hi...
my name is Luca Brasi and I approve this comment. Or else, fishes!
Kindly leave out the judgemental attitude!
Shah, your comment was very condescending...very negative. Have you considered editing your posts and reviewing them for offensive tone before you post them?
thank you!
To answer your question, no I never have.
Do you need a link to Secretary Clinton's wallet remover? It will donate as much money as you have to Her campaign. Let me know and I'll post it.
What are you talking about?
I'm talking about my *parody* of a shill
trying to get the nuances just right. I think it might have been better if I'd expanded on the condescending "childish" thing...like "stop being childish and grow up like the rest of us". I'm not violent but that's the kind of thing that makes we imagine punching someone in the snoot. In any case, that's the kind of thing that pushes people away. It's extremely counter-productive and only confirms that they're wrong.
My apologies if the snark wasn't obvious.
You are responding to a parody with a wry comment, right?
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
Shah was snarking.
He was pretending to be a Hillary supporter talking to non-Hillary supporters. You took him literally.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Hwy there, no I got it but was responding to maybe someone
who might not be and trying to give them an out. Thanks so very much. ::doffs hat::
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
my favorite part of my own post was that Obama dig
really shocking how I react to him like I do Bush. I might even hate Bush less because Obama is smarter than Bush, thus guiltier. Tough to say, though. I don't want either in the house.
evening shahryar...
for me, i think that obama is the bigger jerk, due to his barely contained contempt for people to his left, even as he claimed to "no doubt be a progressive."
Obama is definitely guiltier, because he is smart enough
to understand his own lies and is certainly conscious about them. And there seems to be no convincing reason of why he would have lied and failed in his promises. So, it's still open in my mind why he had done all of what he does and did. No convincing reason. Leaves you just believing he is ... well ... not what you want to have as a President ... to leave out the curse words.
Bush so to speak had a reason to lose his mind, I mean somehow something went very wrong on 9/11 and even if Bush knew stuff, we will never know, his facial expression in that class room reading to the school kids when Andrew Card whispered something in his ears is clearly showing (at least to me) that he knew about that an event will take place, but not in the way he expected it should have taken place. Way too calm and his faces saying 'oh, somehow that was not what supposedly was to happen". Ok, whatever. In any case, he had a lot of reasons to lie, Obama had not, at least not ones that were obvious to the public.
It's all history now anyhow. And it's frustrating to think about it. Man, could you find a decent guy or gal to be your president for a change?
... his facial expression in
Actually, Bush's expression looked to me like a little kid trying to figure out how much trouble he was going to be in when/if his little 'ooooopsie - hand slipped in' with the cookie jar was discovered.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Not gonna happen
Wouldn't be prudent...
you are a lovable shill, shah, I approve your message /nt
Thanks, Joe! People worry about shills derailing the
conversation, yet all the "You're a shill!" "No, you're a shill!" "Are too!" "Am not!" takes up WAY more space and energy than just letting folks talk.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Yup. Threadjacks
tend to do that...
So yes, to that, but I wonder if it might depend on who's doing the talking? If I'm seeing the same comment seventeen times, in response to every other comment, then that person is threadjackin' and that should be NOT COOL TO DO here. At all.
But I should not be calling that out in a subsequent comment, that's what admins are for. I hate feeling like a tattletale, but if I weigh that against "watching conversation go to complete hell around here", it's better to feel like a tattletale.
A good rule of thumb is "How important is it?"
Last January at TOP
I wrote a diary very critical of Clintonian corruption, and didn't want to see it dissolve into thousands of comments of pie wars. So I put a comment up top asking people (on the Bernie side) to observe the following ground rules:
To my vast surprise, the ground rules were generally observed, despite some provocation from Clintonite troublemakers. (Less than I expected, actually.) I still think it's a good ground rule to follow. Not everything needs to be responded to.
Please help support caucus99percent!
That's true, so really, no one is distracting the conversation
unless the commenters are willing to be distracted. Otherwise, move on.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
I keep trying to point out that any statement, argument
or set of either is either valid and sound or not. Whether it was made by a hireling, a hypocrite, a shit-stirrer, a savant or an idiot is irrelevant.
If a known, paid Trump shill pops in and declares that:
1) Hillary is a mega-hawk
2) Hillary was and probably still is DLC
3) The DLC was Reagan-lite and the New Democrats are its successor
which assertions are accordingly automatically wrong because made by a shill?
Our presumed interest is ideas, not whose ideas they are, let alone the employment and ethics of the person posting said ideas.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
When people start publishing
troll/shill spotting manuals it's time to have some dreaded meta. Thanks Joe and Johnny you do the best meta ever. Well Budhy's meta pretty good. For me shills, trolls and double agents are the least of my worries. I'm not a big fan of paranoia as into your life it will creep. I like the mix here as variety is tasty. Lockstep regardless of who's steps your following is mind numbing. what's to worry about we may disagree or have a whole different point of view but no one here is about to be convinced by shills with scripted talking point lists from the ministry of fear. Thanks again for the fine site.
Having encouraged my DH to publish under his own name at
TOP. Medical stats, infectious disease journal quality essays. He was labeled with a "Trollz" tag right away and had a hard time. So he gave up. I should have gotten that it was not a good place, but I'm a slow learner.
There are good ideas and questions that should be asked even if they are not popular. Maybe there are things we should talk about.
Thanks to you hard working folks for this lovely site.
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
I hope you will encourage your hubby to try here!
We like an array of ideas. Especially authoritative ones.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
One shill to rule them all, one shill to find them,
One shill to bring them all and in the darkness bind them . . .
We must show them MoreDoor!
We must show them MoreDoor!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Five shills for the War-Opposers, with their Jills of Stein… n/t
All you need...
is love, and maybe this:
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
This! So much this!
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Joe, I see that the TONE dial doesn't go to 11...
Does that mean we can't go ''one louder?" Don't we want that "extra push over the cliff?"
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o]
"All Life is Problem Solving" - Karl Popper
Just found this over at Inquistr
http://www.inquisitr.com/3398783/how-to-spot-a-shill-in-eight-easy-steps/
Actually, that's what started this whole situation here in the
first place, someone posted that list a few days ago. The problem is that while shills often do those things, so do normal people with no ill intent sometimes.
So don't try to spot them seriously, just discuss the issues or ignore the commenter and move on, whichever suits you.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Perfectly said, friend.
It should be pretty clear to anyone coming here that the assembled are intelligent left/progressive people. We can, to use some NYC vernacular, smell a rat when there is one.
As usual Joe, your lucid and calm perspective puts a lot into focus, especially when we need it most.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut