Pope: Acceptance of transgender people is "terrible"
Words from a pope mean something to some people. Personally, I was raised Lutheran, so I grew up already excommunicated by the Vatican...as Lutherans had been for centuries.
But I have to admit I had expected better from Francis.
And people have been trying to interpret his words actions to me as more pro-trans than I've ever interpreted them. Now the cat is out of that bag.
Remarks from behind closed doors have surfaced.
Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender.
--Pope Francis
No, Francis. That's just ignorant for you to think that.
Francis railed against what he called "ideological colonizing" in "very influential countries." He blamed textbooks financed by wealthy people and institutions for the societal changes, though he declined to specifically name any countries, people or institutions.
Speaking with Pope Benedict, who is well and has a clear mind, he was telling me: ‘Holiness, this is the epoch of sin against God the Creator, he’s intelligent! God created man and woman, God created the world this way, this way, this way, and we are doing the opposite."
--Pope Francis
It is deeply [disappointing] that so soon after his healing apology to LGBTQ Catholics regarding their treatment the church, Pope Francis would choose to deny the very humanity of transgender people, including children.
--Sarah McBride, Human Rights Campaign
Our nation just witnessed the single deadliest mass shooting at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, specifically targeting the LGBT community, and what we need now is for our world leaders to spread messages of tolerance and acceptance.
Our children deserve to know that of course they have the right to choose, and GMHC applauds all schools that teach students not to oppress who they are, but instead live the life as the gender they most identify with.
--Kelsey Louie, Gay Men's Health Crisis
Let us not fall into the sin of trying to replace the Creator. Creation is prior to us and must be received as a gift. At the same time, we are called to protect our humanity, and this means, in the first place, accepting it and respecting it as it was created.
Yet you, Francis, the bishop of Rome, refuse to accept that your god could choose to create transgender people...even when it is clear that He has done so.
Perhaps you should meditate on that.
Most transgender people would likely say their gender isn’t chosen — that they know they are innately male or female, even if their body leads others to perceive them as the other gender. (Some, of course, do not identify with a binary gender.) However, many in the nontrans world, including the pope, would probably say that undergoing hormone therapy or gender-affirming surgery, or simply living as a different gender than the one assigned at birth, amounts to choosing gender.
--Trudy Ring, The Advocate
And we also have these words from Cardinal Raymond Burke:
Gender theory is an invention, an artificial creation. It is impossible to have an identity that does not respect the proper nature of man and that of woman. It is madness that will cause immense damage in society and in the lives of those who support this theory. With gender theory, it is impossible to live in society. Already today, in certain places in the United States, anyone at all can change identity and say, ‘Today I am a man; tomorrow I will be a woman.’ That is truly madness. Some men insist on going into the women’s rest rooms. That is inhuman. In the schools, you can imagine the confusion. … Nowadays there is enormous confusion, which is based on the false idea that there are practically an infinite number of possible sexual orientations. The twofold expression of the human person is not heterosexuality and homosexuality, but male and female. This is the authentic theology of anthropology: that God created man: ‘male and female he created them.
If I actually did believe that one day I would "meet my maker" and be accountable for the life I have lived, I'm perfectly ready and willing to do that.
I've lived my life according to the dictum inscribed upon the Temple of Apollo at Delphi: γνῶθι σεαυτὸν (i.e. Know Thyself). I cannot believe that my Creator would not know completely who I am. Nor can I believe that my Maker would want me to live an inauthentic life. I am transgender and that's just the way I was put together. Reassembling the grains of dust used to create me was the best I could do to allow me that authentic life.
Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.
--Proverbs 4:23
I spent nearly four decades of life spreading the Gospel of Knowledge (i.e. teaching) and the last two and a half decades trying to improve the lives of other people of similar origin.
These have together allowed me to consider my life to have been a worthy one.
I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.
--Jeremiah 17:10
I stand here ready for inspection.
Comments
Well, disappointed is too small a word
for how I feel about this.
Pope Francis is clearly on the wrong side of history. If there is a benevolent god (which I doubt) the Pope just made that god's shit list.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Think about what he believes and what he represents.
There is no foundation for rationality in anything he says or does. "It's a miracle" that he has been on the right side of a number of current issues but, I bet if you shoveled a little deeper, you'd find it's not really supported.
catholics
have a mandate from god to produce offspring. (i mean christians in general do, but catholics are serious about it..)
this is indeed disappointing, but it's not surprising that he'd make the distinction between treating the people with respect and treating the "sin" with none. i seriously doubt this sentiment is limited to trans people either, i'm sure it extends to everyone that isn't cis gendered and looking to make many babies.
it's bullshit, for sure.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Yep... Quarters For The Pope...
Every child attending Catholic mass is given something to place in the offering basket...
When I was young it was quarters for the going rate...
IDK what it is now...
I stopped going when they placed pedophiles on the stage...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
hah, true that. n/t
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
A question for Pope Francis
Pope Francis: Did you choose to be straight?
Isn't that a huge assumption? nt
No, no, that's reserved for Mary.
(Couldn't resist. And how in the world do Catholics come up with that definition of "assumption"?)
Brainwashed from an early age
with some very primitive, backward, anti-scientific ideas. You can only expect so much from anyone who has spent their entire life deep inside the Catholic hierarchy - this pope is better than some, but that's about all that can be said.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I don't know about that. I grew up in the Church. It wasn't
brainwashing. They didn't isolate us and tie us down and make us listen. On the contrary, they supported families and communities and education. In addition to biblical/religious education. With all matters spiritual and non presented to us, the mind wanders where it will, regardless of what the Church has to say about it.
I always thought of religion as non-science, not anti-science. I loved science as a kid and no one tried to stop me. I thought of it as different realms answering different questions:
Why are we here? vs. How are we here?
What is our purpose? vs. What is our behavior?
What should we do? vs. What do we do?
And so on.
Which is not to say the Church gets it right. I knew from the day I learned what "obedient" meant that Paul was in error. Perhaps that inoculated me.
Still, I suspect this stance is more about power than about sincere belief.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
I like this:
That was very much the teaching that I grew up with - and it was agreed upon by religious people, agnostics and atheists alike. Mind you, that was not in the USA.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
That's what I think of as more of a fundamentalist, literal
biblical stance, and I hate to see the Catholic church bend in that direction. The nuns in our Bible study classes discussed the poetry of the Bible. Now suddenly the Pope is going to take it literally, and in the process demonize groups of people? Blech .
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Yes, I expected better from him also
I readily admit to not studying the topic but to my understanding this...
Is exactly incorrect. The correct lesson is that NOBODY can choose their gender. Actually, now that I think on it, probably some are fluid enough to do so. But the lesson with trans folk as I understand is that they cannot choose their gender any more than I can.
And as to this...
Again, my understanding is that in at least some cases we know this to be absolutely not true. Isn't it correct that there are known genetic variations which muddy the m/f thing? And that's not even getting into more subtle ways in which a concept like "gender" might get muddled.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
And IF their God really was the creator
then does he make mistakes? If he does not, then he meant it this way, all human limitations to grasp that aside. IF God is truly the omnipotent one they demand we believe he is, then their very own "logic" betrays them, every damned time!
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
a true believer
would assert that logic is a human construct, and doesn't bind god.
prima facie, god is a profoundly absurd proposition, maybe the distillate of absurdity.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Logic doesn't bind God, but love is supposed to bind all of us
Of course a loving God accepts us as S/He created us, including all genders. It's not hurting anyone else, therefore it's fine and the person's own business.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
this
is an interesting reading of biblical law. there's plenty of bible that is far outside the scope of "do unto others", some of it seriously f'd up..
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
It offends their boys only club
If they allowed women to be priests it would fall in the same category they've made for LGBT. Then again, if they allowed women priests they wouldn't have had anything to apologize for because they wouldn't have been stuck on the dark ages.
I was raised Lutheran too . . .
Pope Francis is great on the climate crisis and justice for the poor, but he really doesn't get women's issues, sex, and family related stuff. I think he wants to understand LGTB issues, but . . . dudes who have never had intimate relations with anybody . . . I don't know how they could possibly get it.
I think Jesus got all of it. The "don't divorce" stuff was really always to protect women. Husbands could just "give a certificate of divorce," and dump their wives out on the street.
In the next section he says "not everyone can receive this saying." And it is my opinion that the following sentences encompass LGBT. The word "eunuch" is used . . . an obsolete term in our society . . . but the best word at the time maybe.
I am not an expert on LGTB issues, but I do believe it is the modern day challenge for the "christian" community. God doesn't give a shit about who you love, or how you identify. God only cares that you give and receive love. That is all.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Aren't we taught that we are all God's children?
Nothing good comes from a religious dogmatic belief that bows it's head in praise to a vengeful God.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." - Howard Zinn
Amen.
I am not surprised given the Pope's stance on women.
I think it is primarily a power issue. Women have virtual no rights to self choice. If one is a women identifying as a man, you were never granted rights and can not assume any rights by self identifying as a man. If you a man with rights and self identify as women, you lose all rights to self choice since women do not have rights.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
This is no surprise....
and now I'd like to see all the Pope Francis apologists, especially the ones on DKos, try to explain away this one. This Pope is just as corrupt and prejudiced as all the others. The "nice" Francis is just a PR show. And it's been incredible watching liberal/progressives swallow the line that he is one of them. What a joke!
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin