I hate to be contentious like this --

but sometimes things have to be done.

From today's news feed:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/report-trump-kept-asking-during-foreign-polic...

According to a report from MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump asked a foreign policy advisor three times during a briefing why he couldn’t just use nuclear weapons to solve the nation’s problems.

Scarborough shared the anecdote on Morning Joe Wednesday, speaking deliberately to avoid naming his source. “I’ll be very careful here. Several months ago, a foreign policy expert on international level went to advise Donald Trump."

“Three times he asked about the use of nuclear weapons. Three times he asked, at one point, ‘If we have them, why can’t we use them?'”

“That’s one of the reasons why he just doesn’t have foreign policy experts around him,” Scarborough concluded.

Now of course there was a denial soon thereafter:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/donald-trump-nuclear-weapons-th...

Donald Trump has denied asking a foreign policy advisor why the US could not use nuclear weapons three times during one hour-long meeting.

I'm not going to defend MSNBC, mouthpiece of Establishment Democrats, here. But let's be clear. Donald Trump doesn't appear to have the wherewithal to fight a media war of this sort. Clinton's connections run too deep. As for Trump's actual proclivity for nuclear weapons, there's no likelihood he could do it even if he wanted to:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/28/former-cia...

“God, no!” Hayden replied. “Let me give you a punchline: If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act.”

“That’s quite a statement, sir,” Maher said.

“You are required not to follow an unlawful order,” Hayden added. “That would be in violation of all the international laws of armed conflict.”

Which is to say that those portions of the American armed forces which are still there would refuse his orders. In case you missed it:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/12/16/pentagon-troops-it-s-us...

In the halls of the Pentagon, there is a different plan afoot for the Trump presidency. Here, officers are privately contemplating what they would do should Trump become their commander-in-chief. And more often than not, they proclaim they will leave.

So much for this "fear campaign" claim that all these horrible things will happen if Trump is elected President. In all likelihood the containment field will go up and he'll be rendered completely inert.

*****

At any rate, you may ask: what's happening with Donald Trump's connections these days?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/08/republicans-think-trump-might-quit-so-th...

Jon Karl, the chief White House correspondent for ABC News, reported Wednesday morning that Republican officials were scrambling to plan for the possibility that Trump might suddenly quit the presidential race.

“This is absolutely unprecedented,” Karl reported. “First of all, I am told RNC chairman Reince Priebus is furious, that he has had multiple discussions with Trump telling him he needs to drastically change course. But here’s the news, I am told senior officials at the party are actively exploring what would happen if Trump dropped out, how to replace him on the ballot.”

Karl said the Republican Party could not force Trump out of the race now that he’s their nominee, but he might solve their problem by dropping out.

In 1972, George McGovern merely had to replace his Vice Presidential nominee before succumbing to the worst Presidential election defeat in Democratic Party history. The Republicans may have to replace their Presidential candidate this year. But, hey, I suppose the true believers will continue to think that Trump has a chance.

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candidates and then I'm sure at hrc's delight there's Obomber letting the bombs fly in Libya and elsewhere. Jill not Hill

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An otherwise very intelligent woman, but a die-hard republican, called me this morning to say that she's decided to vote for Jill Stein, so I expect hell has actually frozen over . . .

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Hawkfish's picture

I encouraged voting for Gary by explaining that I was voting for Jill. The fact that I said I can't stand Hillary seemed to help.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Scarborough shared the anecdote on Morning Joe

But is it true?

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Thumb's picture

And that's all that really matters.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/02/28/former-cia...

“God, no!” Hayden replied. “Let me give you a punchline: If he were to order that once in government, the American armed forces would refuse to act.”

“That’s quite a statement, sir,” Maher said.

“You are required not to follow an unlawful order,” Hayden added. “That would be in violation of all the international laws of armed conflict.”

Good job that stopped President Bush and others, or there's no telling what attacks wars and political interference regime changes America might have engaged in!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

who's been at or near the apex of the MIC national security state apparatus, and joltin Joe Scarborough, the epitome of MSM doublespeak, both expounding on an unsourced conversation Joe says he heard about from some anonymous "expert". The chances of this rumor being true are not very high. But it does illustrate the kinds of forces that Trump is up against.

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native

edg's picture

This was in the March Republican Townhall debate. (See: Transcript) Chris Matthews asked Trump about nuclear weapons. Here's an excerpt:

MATTHEWS: Your most controversial suggestion was don't take nuclear weapons -- I mean, you may have been hooked into this by (inaudible).

TRUMP: Don't take what?

MATTHEWS: Nuclear weapons off the table. ... Where can you -- and why put it on the table or leave it on the table if you can't imagine where to use it?

TRUMP: Well, I didn't say, "Don't take it." I said I would be very, very slow and hesitant to pull that trigger.

...

TRUMP: Look, nuclear should be off the table. But would there be a time when it could be used, possibly, possibly?

MATTHEWS: OK. The trouble is, when you said that, the whole world heard it. ... Nobody wants to hear that about an American president.

TRUMP: Then why are we making them? Why do we make them? We had (inaudible).

MATTHEWS: Because of the old mutual assured destruction, which Reagan hated and tried to get rid of.

TRUMP: (inaudible) I was against Iraq. I'd be the last one to use the nuclear weapon.

...

MATTHEWS: Can you tell the Middle East we're not using a nuclear weapon on anybody?

TRUMP: I would never say that. I would never take any of my cards off the table.

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snoopydawg's picture

Stating that she would use nuclear weapons on Iran.
Teacherken has a diary up on LOF with this headline
Be afraid. Be very afraid!
Those are the types of diaries all over that site this week.
I refuse to be afraid of Trump since Obama has spent $1 trillion dollars for the nuclear weapons and has developed a mini nuke.
And he has installed a missle defense shield in a country close to Russia as well as put troops in 20 countries surrounding Russia.
Europe is telling him to back off the aggression towards Russia but he nor Hillary are listening.

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Cassiodorus's picture

most of the reasons we are to be "very afraid" of Trump concern stuff that is happening already.

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“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

Thumb's picture

This assumes Trump hasn't been doing this all along to be the Clinton's insurance policy. Every day I become more and more convinced that he's playing the villain role to take the fall and take the GOP down with him, not because he wants to win. And if this is the case why would he ever drop out?

Maybe a buy-out, but it already appears the GOP money is just fine backing Hillary so why would they care? They don't need the GOP to protect their interests, and that's the sad bottom line right there.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

tapu dali's picture

will merge with the Democrats to form the Democratic-Republican party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party

and the Oligarchy (TPTB) will have succeeded in establishing a true 1-party State, beholden to the 0.1%, which will make elections and election spending unnecessary!

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

TheOtherMaven's picture

before the Megaparty fractures again. Consider 1820-1824.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

politicians, big businessmen, donors.

A lot of the rank and file are refusing to play, but, like us, they've got nowhere to go.

They hate Hillary, always have; think she's a corrupt liar; they won't vote for her just b/c their leaders say so. But without a strong alternative, it doesn't matter much.

We have to build the alternative. If it weren't for climate change, I'd be fairly sanguine, despite how horrible things are. We've never had a better moment to build the alternative. But it's possible we won't have time to do it.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

detroitmechworks's picture

He starts making no longer funny statements the media enjoys, but rather statements that suggest going to war, while Hillary also suggests going to war and supports actual wars, but the media completely shuts up about it.

You'd almost think they had an agenda.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

bondibox's picture

But you're wrong about the events

"Several months ago.."

Trump didn't all of a sudden start dropping the ball. MSNBC just all of a sudden decided to report it.

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“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”

Thumb's picture

And they tied John Podesta, Hillary's campaign chair, to the Russians,and then POOF we never heard about the Panama Papers again?

You'd almost think they had an agenda.

Yeah, ya think?

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

officer elite doesn't like him, I may have to reconsider my consistent statements that I would never, ever, vote for him.
If the Elmer Fudd lookalike, Hayden, the man who spied on Americans because, well, he could, is against Trump, there's more food for thought.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

The military officers who would resign are more likely to be the ones who made clear they would resign rather than carry out a Netanyahu directed attack on Iran to set back its nuclear potential. There is a rumor I find credible that when the pressure was at its most intense, both from Israel to the US and from the executive and congress to the military, that an American flag officer told an Israeli counterpart that Netanyahu should factor in the probability that the American people would learn the full story of the attack on the Liberty before the first bombs fell.

The officers you would like to leave, the ones who have loud prayer meetings in the cafeteria during lunch, are the ones who would stay.

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know how politicians have kept the FBI handcuffed over the wholesale spying by Israel.
Thanks for setting me straight.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

dervish's picture

and it's hearsay evidence. It's just another media hit job calculated to scare people into voting for her Heinous.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Cassiodorus's picture

mostly because Trump, unlike Sanders, has no campaign. That and Trump is horribly inconsistent.

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“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

dervish's picture

It doesn't appear that he's serious about winning.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

President Bush's plan to invade Iraq was unlawful - a war crime, to be exact. Remember all the generals who resigned in protest after refusing to issue orders to invade? Me neither.

Maybe nuclear war takes it to the next level. However, we have been hearing years of casual discussions in the media about U.S. plans to launch an unprovoked attack on Iran. Usually the people suggesting this do not mention that it would necessarily involve the use of nuclear weapons.

BTW how did the experts answer the question Trump supposedly asked?

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Thumb's picture

BTW how did the experts answer the question Trump supposedly asked?

"There's no money in it."

Why drop a nuke when you can ask for billions in hardware and fancy toys that won't actually end the fighting gravy train?

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

If you drop nukes in Iran, say - you can kiss goodbye those oil reserves for hundreds of years.

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Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?

The US plan for setting back alleged Iranian efforts to acquire nuclear weapons does not involve a nuclear attack. It requires the complete suppression of a sophisticated Iranian air defense system that would take many follow on strikes over an indeterminate period of days, possibly weeks. Then large US aircraft would carry 30,000 bunker busters to drop on our best guesses of the locations of the underground facilities. Some of the best guesses would be wrong, so there would be follow strikes in this phase too.

That's why the idea that Israel can do it on its own would be laughable if not so terrifying. The most capable Israeli bombs are 5000 lb. bunker busters. The ability of Israeli aircraft to spend time over Iran is limited. The real Israeli threat involved here is that they can start a war in which the US would unavoidably be drawn in.

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Please, if possible, read this in full at source, if anyone has not yet done so.

https://theintercept.com/2015/09/09/hillary-clinton-goes-militaristic-ha...

Hillary Clinton Goes to Militaristic, Hawkish Think Tank, Gives Militaristic, Hawkish Speech
Glenn Greenwald

Sep. 9 2015

... She even depicted the Iran Deal as making a future war with Iran easier and more powerful:

Should it become necessary in the future having exhausted peaceful alternatives to turn to military force, we will have preserved and in some cases enhanced our capacity to act. And because we have proven our commitment to diplomacy first, the world will more likely join us.

As for Israel itself, Clinton eagerly promised to shower it with a long, expensive, and dangerous list of gifts. Here’s just a part of what that country can expect from the second President Clinton:

I will deepen America’s unshakeable commitment to Israel’s security, including our long standing tradition of guaranteeing Israel’s qualitative military edge. I’ll increase support for Israeli rocket and missile defenses and for intelligence sharing. I’ll sell Israel the most sophisticated fire aircraft ever developed. The F-35. We’ll work together to develop and implement better tunnel detection technology to prevent arms smuggling and kidnapping as well as the strongest possible missile defense system for Northern Israel, which has been subjected to Hezbollah’s attacks for years.

She promised she “will sustain a robust military presence in the [Persian Gulf] region, especially our air and naval forces.” She vowed to “increase security cooperation with our Gulf allies” — by which she means the despotic regimes in Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Qatar, among others. She swore she will crack down even further on Hezbollah: “It’s time to eliminate the false distinction that some still make between the supposed political and military wings. If you’re part of Hezbollah, you’re part of a terrorist organization, plain and simple.”

Then she took the ultimate pledge: “I would not support this agreement for one second if I thought it put Israel in greater danger.” So even if the deal would benefit the U.S., she would not support it “for one second” if it “put Israel in greater danger.” That’s an unusually blunt vow to subordinate the interests of the U.S. to that foreign nation.

But when it comes to gifts to Israel, that’s not all! Echoing the vow of several GOP candidates to call Netanyahu right away after being elected, Clinton promised: “I would invite the Israeli prime minister to the White House during my first month in office to talk about all of these issues and to set us on a course of close, frequent consultation right from the start, because we both rely on each other for support as partners, allies and friends.” She then addressed “the people of Israel,” telling them: “Let me say, you’ll never have to question whether we’re with you. The United States will always be with you.” For good measure, she heaped praise on “my friend Chuck Schumer,” who has led the battle to defeat the Iran Deal, gushing about what an “excellent leader in the Senate” he will make. What’s a little warmongering among friends?

Just as was true in her book, she implicitly criticized Obama — who boasts that he has bombed seven predominantly Muslim countries — of being insufficiently militaristic, imperialistic, and violent. She said she wanted more involvement in Syria from the start (though did not call for the U.S. to accept any of its refugees). In a clear rebuke to the current president, she decreed that any criticisms U.S. officials may utter of Israel should be done only in private (“in private and behind, you know, closed doors”), not in public, lest “it open[] the door to everybody else to delegitimize Israel to, you know, pile on in ways that are not good for the — the strength and stability, not just of Israel.” About Russia, she said, “I think we have not done enough” and put herself “in the category of people who wanted us to do more in response to the annexation of Crimea and the continuing destabilization of Ukraine.” ...

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/02/hillary-clinton-backed-major-repu...

Hillary Clinton Is Backed by Major Republican Donors
Posted on February 22, 2016 by Eric Zuesse.

Eric Zuesse

An analysis of Federal Election Commission records, by TIME, which was published on 23 October 2015, showed that the 2012 donors to Romney’s campaign were already donating more to Hillary Clinton’s 2016 campaign than they had been donating to any one of the 2016 campaigns of — listed here in declining order below Clinton — Lindsey Graham, Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina, Chris Christie, Rick Perry, Mike Huckabee, Donald Trump, Bobby Jindal, Rick Santorum, George Pataki, or Jim Gilmore. Those major Romney donors also gave a little to two Democrats (other than to Hillary — who, as mentioned, received a lot of donations from these Republican donors): Martin O’Malley, Jim Web, and Lawrence Lessig. (Romney’s donors gave nothing to Bernie Sanders, and nothing to Elizabeth Warren. They don’t want either of those people to become President.) ...

... To judge from Clinton’s actual record of policy-decisions, and excluding any consideration of her current campaign-rhetoric (which is directed only at Democratic voters), all three of those candidates who were in Clinton’s Republican-donor league — Graham, Clinton, and Kasich — would, indeed, be quite similar, from the perceived self-interest standpoint of the major Republican donors. ...

... In terms of her actual record in U.S. public office, it’s indistinguishable from that of Republican politicians in terms of corruption, and it’s indistinguishable from Republican politicians in terms of the policies that she carried out as the U.S. Secretary of State for four years. Her record shows her to be clearly a Republican on both matters (notwithstanding that her rhetoric has been to the exact contrary on both matters). ...

... Hillary Clinton is a good investment for a billionaire — even for the 70% of them who are Republicans. And, based on those 2015 donation-figures, it seems that they would prefer a President Hillary Clinton, over a President Donald Trump. However, their three favorite candidates, in order, were: Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, and Marco Rubio. But, in a Clinton-versus-Trump contest, Hillary Clinton would likely draw more money from Republican mega-donors than Trump would, and, of course, she would draw virtually all of the money from Democratic mega-donors. In such an instance, Hillary Clinton would probably draw a larger campaign-chest (especially considering super-pacs) than any candidate for any political office in U.S. (or global) history. Hillary Clinton would almost certainly be the most-heavily-marketed political product in history, if she becomes nominated and ends up running against Trump.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

earthling1's picture

The Machine is Enormous.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

like hamburger. He doesn't stand much of a chance against the Machine, aka the Borg. I almost feel sorry for the poor guy, with his crazy hair and all. Or I would, if he wasn't so prone to being an asshole.

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native

Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

That would completely screw over the Clinton campaign. Where would they be without the "Hillary's the only way to stop Trump" argument? Republicans would pretty much be guaranteed a victory, if they were wise enough not to replace Trump with his running mate, Cruz, or Bush. They could throw Romney on the ballot and beat Hillary pretty easily I bet. Hell, he could run a campaign focused on fixing the ACA, pointing out how it's based on his own Romneycare plan, and blame all the problems that it's caused on Democrats screwing up the implementation. And if he were to adopt similar strong war positions to Hillary, what would she really have left to run on?

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Thumb's picture

what would she really have left to run on?

She answered this one already.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

lunachickie's picture

They are paving the way for Trump to quit.

RINGER for HER.

Total bullshit...

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WaterLily's picture

But do you mean you think Hillary would win against a different opponent?

If they can somehow parachute that little shit Ryan into the top slot, she's TOAST. (IMHO).

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lunachickie's picture

what I was saying there is what I and a lot of others have been saying about Trump's bid--he was never serious about it, and he was only in it to make Hillary look good by comparison.

And she doesn't. That's actually pretty bad. If Donald Trump can't make her look better, I don't think anybody else can, either...

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WaterLily's picture

And I totally agree.

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With an ego like the one he's got? No way Jose. Not while he's still got millions of fans to adore him. And who'd be ready to riot if he did quit.

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native

just like he's been doing, and he'd be correct there but I really can see him dropping out. IMHO I think he's far too thin skinned to want to actually do that job - he can pretend dictator all he wants but up against the Deep State, he won't win that one. As someone above said, he'll be ground up by that machine, and I don't think his ego will permit that. Far worse to be told what to do and when by that group, who don't take NO for answer and he cant really go to the media or anywhere near it to gain leverage there because they own it. He'd be humiliated publicly a LOT, and I don't think his ego could take that.

Far better to try to take the "it's all rigged anyway" road and get away with it, we all know its true now and even the other side sees it. He can keep many of his worst fans, sadly and horribly, and gain some credibility there with that nasty group. Maybe he'll be the next Rush Limpdick and sit on the sidelines leveling his "expert" criticism every day. The more I think about it, the more I'm getting convinced this may be his plan.

He helped the Clinton's for a time, but maybe he's not scared enough of them to mind fucking them up just a little. His ego would sure get a burnish there with his peeps - taking down the evil HRC and not having to become POTUS with all the attendant real world responsibility to boot? A win-win for him. I guess we'll see.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

WoodsDweller's picture

I'm not afraid of the Big Bad Trump. He can talk big for the rubes, but he will be ineffectual once in office. The scary thing about Clinton is that she would be very effective, and everything she would do is bad.
Also from today's news feed:

Donald Trump’s fundraising efforts are no longer hurting, after he raised $82 million for his campaign and the Republican National Committee in July.

It appears that the strength of the GOP presidential nominee’s fundraising comes from small donor contributions. The campaign says that it has raised about $64 million through digital and direct mail operations with support from the RNC. These tend to be donations of under $200, so nearly all of that money is likely headed to Trump campaign coffers. The campaign further stated that the businessman raised $16 million in larger donations for both his campaign, the RNC and a handful of state parties.

As I predicted, once he got the nomination the donors are opening their wallets. Small dollar donations are strong.
As to the nuke thing, watch his poll numbers go up. This is coming as a surprise to the establishment, but many people think exactly this. When Trump is talking about Obama being weak, what did you think he was talking about? What did you think the voters were hearing? Use nukes to show that you will go there, then use the threat of nukes to get leverage in negotiations to get better deals. That's what he means by being tough. And the voters eat it up. Are there enough of them to get him elected? Don't count it out.
Am I supposed to be scared that the Imperial Legion High Command will resign rather than support him? See me cowering under my bed?
The winner of this race will be the one who bleeds the fewest voters to third parties. All Trump needs to do is come out in favor of marijuana reform and those Libertarians will come back.
Watch the Republican establishment flock to Clinton. Watch Democrats recoil in horror as they realize she IS a NeoCon Republican, and always has been. Stein looks better and better to more and more.
Drip, drip, drip.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

Meg Whitman, CEO of Hewlett Packard being a recent high-profile convert:
“I will vote for Hillary, I will talk to my Republican friends about helping her, and I will donate to her campaign and try to raise money for her,” Ms. Whitman said in a telephone interview.

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native

Thumb's picture

All The GOP Money People Love Me - Vote Hillary!

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Lily O Lady's picture

that the Republican is terrible so they'll vote for the Democrat. In 2008 we had hope and change for about 15 minutes. Then as the appointments were made a neoliberal "reality" set in.

Clinton does indeed offer a third Obama term with more Republican policies like warmed-over RomneyCare for the "Affordable" Care Act and even more war. And formerly Democratic Party will have disappeared down the Memory Hole.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Indeed, everyone got their 15 minutes of frame... but whoever it was who pointed out that she'd be continuing the Bush legacy rather than Obama's, that theory sounds - to say the least - feasible to me.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Lily O Lady's picture

the depredations of Bill Clinton, a function of the Deep State perhaps.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

tapu dali's picture

. Watch Democrats recoil in horror as they realize she IS a NeoCon Republican, and always has been.

True "Democrats" (i.e. the "Congressional Party", well as large swaths of the rank-and-file) have no trouble with neo-libcons.

Recoil in horror? Why? The Party has been moving Right for decades. Obama tried to sugar-coat it with a vapid "hope 'n' change" message that fooled millions, but Clinton doesn't have the rhetorical skills for that, and besides, "fool me once ...".

That's why the left wing is abandoning her, in droves. Unfortunately the American system militates against a multi party system because of structural reasons.

The future could well be a Democratic-Republican coalition that would garner close to 95% of the vote. Scary.

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There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

Cassiodorus's picture

Unfortunately the Green Party tainted itself with its selection of David Cobb as their Presidential candidate in a rigged nominating convention in June of 2004. Cobb was part of a campaign "Vote Kerry and Cobb" sponsored by prominent "leftists":

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Aug04/OpenLetter0802.htm

There is no greater political imperative this year than to retire the Bush regime, one of the most dangerous and extremist in U.S. history. As people dedicated to peace, economic justice, equality, sustainability and constitutional freedoms, we are committed to defeating Bush.

The only candidate who can win instead of Bush in November is John Kerry. We want Kerry to replace Bush, because a Kerry administration would be less dangerous in many crucial areas, including militarism, civil liberties, civil rights, judicial appointments, reproductive rights and environmental protection.

So you can see 2016 as a rerun. The call goes out: "omigod the Republican is SOOOOO bad you have to vote for the Democrat." The Left shrivels to nothing while the Democrat, well...

“In case you’re wondering,” Belikoff concludes, “about the claim by the RNC that Kerry is the most Liberal member of Congress is based on a very limited set of issues (abortion, gun ownership, and the like) that are of critical interest to conservative groups (the National Journal was specifically cited). A rigorous statistical analysis of Kerry’s *entire* voting record in the 108th Congress reveals, however, that he falls right in the middle of an increasingly conservative Democratic Party — tied with Joseph Lieberman, and only slightly more moderate than the conservative Dianne Feinstein: http://voteview.uh.edu/sen108.htm. (The number at the far right in the table indicates each Senator’s position on a liberal/conservative scale in which 1 is relatively liberal_ given the times.

It should also be noted that Kerry also has the worst attendance record in the Senate. His attendance for 8% of votes thus far in 2004 can be explained by the presidential campaign; however even in 2003 he voted only 36% of the time. (The average for all Senators is 97%). Remarkably, he also missed 76% of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s public hearings over the course of his 8 year tenure on that committee (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=241).

This is the thin gruel the liberals have been eating for the past twenty-eight years, from Michael Dukakis to Hillary Clinton. And it has consequences. Think, for instance, of where Jill Stein would be if she didn't have to organize ballot access drives.

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“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

featheredsprite's picture

might be having private "what if" conversations.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Pluto's Republic's picture

Truth is, no President has the power to push a button and wipe out the world.

That's another boogyman.

But I'm sure everyone here has carefully researched Trump's foreign policy vision, and like-minded intelligence advisors. So is is unlikely that folks at c99 would fall for such truly stupid propaganda.

If those people are really that desperate, then you can be pretty sure they believe Trump is going to win the Presidency and the Democratic Party will be smashed.

If that is the case, the American people have just escaped hell on earth.

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IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Let’s back up. Unless the subject is about the US bombing a country without nukes, that is one issue, and I read that nukes were considered as necessary to take out the phantom Iranian nuclear bomb facilities. When Clinton finally decides to bomb Iran, that will certainly one of the possibilities.n

However, if the issue if nuclear war, then we have some issues and pointed irony. Nuclear war requires the US and the other country to have nukes. And right now that means China or Russia. The first irony is that it is Trump who wants rapprochement with Russia. Cooling down tensions, and currently Obama and latter Clinton will ratchet up the tensions. Given Hillary’s ultra-militarism, we are setting up the conditions for nuclear war with Russia. NATO has moved to the borders of Russia pointing lots of firepower at them. And with that, the creation of tripwires s that could set off a conventional exchange leading eventually to a nuclear exchange.

In an absolutely realistic way, while Trump is a buffoon, HRC is more likely to start a nuclear war. But the anti-Russian hysteria has reached such a point, there is no discussion possible about our role in Nato and our stance to Russia other than making Putin a cartoon villain and writing about the Russians in the same way Trumps talks about Mexican and Muslim.

The irony of course is that the neocon warmongers are asking the same question as Trump.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/quite-possibly-the-dumbest-mil...

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/06/21/pers-j21.html

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that even Nixon and Kissinger talked about nukes in Vietnam - "limited" and "tactical" of course, but I did not realize that even then that was considered an option. Might have been Daniel Ellsberg's book about releasing the Pentagon Papers, probably is where I read that.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

I haven't seen anything this relentless since the media buried Al Gore. This morning Mika and Joe and Co. were aghast that Trump was "making fun" of a guy's purple heart and lying about it, somehow disrespecting it. The clip showed Trump saying the vet had given it to him, that he'd "always wanted one," that he'd gotten this one "the easy way." He said it was the actual Purple Heart and not a copy. He brought the vet out and gave a thumbs-up. Later the vet said it was actually a copy. Okay, there's a "lie," though I wonder how key it was, and whether Trump might just have forgotten the truth. But for the life of me, I didn't see the disrespect everyone was swooning over. Yeah, getting a purple heart as a gift sure IS getting it "the easy way." How is that an insult to those who got one the hard way??

But most of all I kept remembering how okay everybody was when the ENTIRE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION showed up decked out in purple hearts to make fun of John Kerry. Now THAT was outrageous. But this is Trump, and that was a Bush convention, so different rules apply.

Hillary's a better country club republican than Trump is, and that's the fact of the matter. The Wall Street Journal, the Chamber of Commerce, Bloomberg, and the traditional media agree: she'll be MUCH better for the stock market. Therefore, Donald Trump's skin had better start getting a whole lot thicker. I can't imagine being the focus of so many rich people's venom.

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Twain Disciple

The thing about Trump attacks is where they are leading. Trump made a facetious remark about the Russians delivering up Clinton's email and the attacks became I would say even dangerous. Two Dem senators want a Senate investigation into those remarks--ever hear of the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC)? Trump is a traitor? Beyond the rhetoric being a traitor is a capital offense, and Hillary supporters mean it to be a crime what he said--he certainly is a fool, but he is not a traitor. The hysteria over Russia has basically shut down all discussion about foreign policy other than the militaristic approach favored by the neocons with Hillary included in that group. Any and all guilt-by-association is declared as fact to the kangaroo courts (except of course when applied to Clinton and her connections to foundation donors and Wall Street). I noticed anti-war posters are close to non-existent at TOP, and when they post like me get hit with "community complaints". Imagine now this Hillary movement with the power of government in their hands--you betecha we will need mass spying to find those Russian spies.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

March 3, 2016, from the moment that Mitt Romney delivered his almost 18-minute screed.

Here's an excerpt of the transcript below. Also, here's a link to the full speech, and video (of Romney delivering the remarks in March).

It's notable (to me) that the policies that Romney tries to sell in his remarks, are basically the Democratic and Republican corporatist neoliberal agenda/platform.

MITT ROMNEY: And let me put it very plainly. If we Republicans choose Donald Trump as our nominee, the prospects for a safe and prosperous future are greatly diminished.

Let me explain why I say that. First on the economy. If Donald Trump’s plans were ever implemented, the country would sink into prolonged recession.

A few examples.

His proposed 35 percent tariff-like penalties would instigate a trade war and that would raise prices for consumers, kill our export jobs and lead entrepreneurs and businesses of all stripes to flee America.

His tax plan in combination with his refusal to reform entitlements and honestly address spending would balloon the deficit and the national debt.

He went after Trump for other stances, but these two policies were the ones that Romney concentrated on--Trump's anti-free trade stance, and his pledge not to cut (or 'reform,' wink/wink) 'entitlements.'

IMO, it's not Trump's outrageous and insulting rhetoric--it's his left stance on several major policies that has the One Percent, and bipartisan corporatist/conservative lawmakers on the verge of 'stroking out.'

Wink

Mollie


“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit and therefore– to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)

The SOSD Fantastic Four

Available For Adoption, Save Our Street Dogs, SOSD

Cole - SOSD

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Pluto's Republic's picture

I didn't know that.

I'm a long-time propaganda watcher. I've never seen a direct assault of this intensity against the American people, before. I never imagined it could happen. The stepped-up blast of manufactured lies and repetitive brainwashing may have begun with the Ukraine coup or a bit before, but the current government and mainstream push of propaganda against Trump is just staggering.

The autocrats are desperate to out-shout social media messaging, I suppose. There's big fear at the top. But I had to laugh over the "Russia hacks the Dems" news. So over the top.

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IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
dervish's picture

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."


In the halls of the Pentagon, there is a different plan afoot for the Trump presidency. Here, officers are privately contemplating what they would do should Trump become their commander-in-chief. And more often than not, they proclaim they will leave.


And that's a bad thing why? The promise of the neocons christo-fascists all walking out would be reason to vote FOR Trump.

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Cassiodorus's picture

the primary argument of the "omigod Trump" scare campaign depends upon the notion that everyone is just going to roll over for fascist Trump. "Resistance will be impossible under Trump." Hopefully you have guessed by this point that my primary target here (and in half a dozen previous diaries) is that scare campaign.

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“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon

martianexpatriate's picture

never follow an unlawful order.

So, when we started waterboarding prisoners, where exactly did all those people go? Not just the ones who did it, the ones who booked the cell and stood outside while they did it?

You are trapped in your narrative. You need him to not be a threat, therefore he isn't. It's kind of stunning how someone can be so trapped. It's a little sad.

Some people will quit. Others will want their job and stay. It's always been that way.

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Cassiodorus's picture

or it's just some sort of made-up stuff being used to get us all to vote for Clinton. I'm suggesting that the idea that we're all just going to roll over for President Trump has a few holes in it.

Are you advocating a vote for Clinton, here, because omigod Trump is too scary?

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“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon