I subscribe to The Sane Progressive and just watched Debbie's latest video. She makes some strong points about the primary, it's outcome and Bernie. I must say, I agree with a lot of what she's saying although I would like to know the whole story, which of course we never will.
If the dem convention was a poker game and Bernie knew someone was cheating, would he keep on playing?? Caught red handed cheating in poker usually means violence of some sort - if you had the balls Bernie....
Peace
FN
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"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
the casino cheated you, would you really want to piss off the mob? How successful could you hope to be?
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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
You and all those calling Bernie names; get on back to me after you have stood up to the Political mafia and exposed their dirty secrets.
And offered the opportunity to the US electorate and the judicial system to make changes based on truth and reality instead of the lie of alleged democracy.
Get back to me with your criticism AFTER YOU have put yourself in the sites of those dark elements while risking your life to expose what goes on behind the vail of
Corruption and Graft Merchants.
How safe and entertaining for you to be critical of Bernie; while maintaining your safety of NOT being in their crosshairs~
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Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Thank you Marilyn~
That is exactly what I am referring to.
I let myself hope . . .
That Bernie's Rare Goodness would protect and sweep him into office.
And it would be World Changing~
(and it may turn up an O'Henry ending yet)
TPTB Are merciless and I am not prepated to taunt the one person who stood up to them; for not being the sacrificial lamb.
Which would solve nothing~
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0 users have voted.
—
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Thank you Marilyn~
That is exactly what I am referring to.
I let myself hope . . .
That Bernie's Rare Goodness would protect and sweep him into office.
And it would be World Changing~
(and it may turn up an O'Henry ending yet)
TPTB Are merciless and I am not prepated to taunt the one person who stood up to them; for not being the sacrificial lamb.
Which would solve nothing~
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0 users have voted.
—
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
If we use the "I'm afraid" logic to get anything done - then I suppose you're correct, we are done as an electorate. Chris Hedges has pretty much given up on the system but yet he still advocates for civil disobedience - if you're going to be frightened out of your wits right out of the gate then we (you) are sunk...
Peace
FN
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"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
Uh FN~
I am concluding, from your rousing speech on how "we" should not be backing down from fear;
THAT YOU ARE IN ANY WAY INCLUDED IN THE RISK
That you now advocate that someone else who has already risked more than you will ever know . . .
Should take
Yeah!!! Rah Rah . . .
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Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
"I regret that I can only run this fast from my enemies for my country"...
Come on now, seriously even if someone wanted to do harm to Bernie or his relatives it would be obvious to all. And the convention did continue and they got the results they wanted so what would be served now by hurting Bernie. Ralph Nader, Chomsky and Hedges have said really nasty things about the government and nothing, nothing has happened to them. They may have not been given federal jobs because of their opinions but ask Bernie if he is afraid - I would think not...
Peace
FN
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"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
for himself or his family. I think he really is afraid of a Trump presidency. Were he to have led his flock in a revolt against the Democratic Party, a Trump victory in November would have been a possible, maybe even a likely result. Who among us would be willing to shoulder sole responsibility for that eventuality? And remember, right from the beginning Bernie has promised to support the eventual Dem nominee. Can we blame him now, for keeping his promise?
a time-warp reading your comment. "Were he to have led his flock in a revolt against the Democratic Party, a Trump victory in November would have been a possible, maybe even a likely result."
As for shouldering the sole responsibility for a trump victory? I'm in Ohio and I plan on voting for Jill. If clinton loses Ohio by 1 vote I'll be proud to stand up and take responsibility. As for Bernie making promises? I think they should have went out the window when he realized the fix was in.
And speaking of fixes. Don't worry about poor hillary not getting elected. With the koch bros in her corner pulling the strings on the repub governors in the swing states (I'm looking at you scott and kasich) she can rig her little corrupt heart out. The primary was a test to see if they could rig and if the media could cover it up. They passed both with flying colors...
I also think he had relatives lost in the Holocaust. I think there are people that have an attuned ear to what Trump represents for that reason. In no way do I blame or think less of Bernie taking the path he has.
Myself, I don't fear Trump, he's a buffoon.
I fear the one that comes next - the one that isn't.
that there were threats involved. History tells us that The $hill and Hubby are known to play dirty, and Bernie, while possessing a Spine of Steel, likely is sensitive to threats to his family --
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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
He did *not* call for nomination by acclimation. He very carefully avoided saying that. In fact, he called that all of the roll call votes be recorded before asking that Hillary be "chosen" as the nominee.
But if you're still hoping that the op ed (read it if you didn't) posted by Caerus has any chance of happening then you are depending on some slender thread of wishing thinking. The system doesn't usually eat its own. Bernie may have some alternate reasoning for holding on to his delegate, it won't cost him anything to hang on to the op ed's theme. I don't think he has been threatened to do what he has done, it wouldn't make sense to alienate some possible voters who may support his down line candidates (like Florida and DWS's opponent). But still, he was interviewed and said that the DNC's actions were despicable and called for DWS's resignation - so he WAS aware of the fix being in while the process of the convention was still in motion. He could have done something other than sit on his hands, I believe you could see in his face the frustration of not being able to come up with a serious move that would have threatened something (like in playing chess) but at that point it was "checkmate" Hillary's favor...
Peace
FN
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"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
How is it that you have any authority to speak on the topic of how much sarifice would be involved for Bernie to make the move, that you are not exactly making clear?
How much more than Bernie have you contributed to this cause?
What sacrifices have you yourself made for liberty?
Get back to me when you have Senator Sanders' Actual Vantage Point on this matter OR
Have Contributed with his historical level of Service and Sacrifice and Bravery.
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Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
You've concocted this paranoid delusion of a "straw man" (the fraidy cat) - and then proceed to knock me down with it. Well, I'll tell you right now - I for one am NOT afraid! You can, if you wish, make conspiracy minded reasons as to why Sanders did not perform better than he did or speak his own mind because of possible retributions but the fact is that these are politicians we are talking about here, they do what they do for THEIR best interest not yours...
I don't owe you any further explanations, I've exhausted my patience with this non-material discussion. Read my sig line for further clarification.
Peace
FN
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"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
So Sorry to have to point reality out to you; and ruin your perfectly lovely Oh poor me; "Even though I risk nothing and know less about what goes on behind the dark seemy scenes~
I am qualified to jump on the Bernie is chicken and a typical politician; band wagon;
and
~don't~ you~ dare~ point~ out~ that~ I~ might~ not~ have~ a~ clue;
Or the right; to lambast a great hero to many of us; for his decades long dedication and commitment to this cause, abandoned by most others in politics.
He is one of The Very Bravest and One Of the Rarest Who is Not out to line His own pockets.
According to you; Bernie just
showed his true colors~
Yet;
He has actually been showing them to us all, for multiple decades. And He Is Golden Rule All the Way~
You'll have to find someone
far less virtuous to our cause, for your meme.
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Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
I lived in NYC as a child and young adult and Trump was a bombastic fixture. He got the Central Park skating rink repaired when the City couldn't. But mostly he stuck to hotel and apartment deals. He never once talked all this lunatic talk about Moslems, women, Hitler, Putin, bombing people, or building walls to keep them out. Conclusion: It's an act suggested by Bill Clinton to make Hillary look sane and the lesser evil next to him so she'd get the scared shitless votes. Let's not forget that Bill and Donald are golfing buddies and the Clintons attended Trump's latest wedding. Think: Is it normal for a friend (Hillary) to scaremonger about a friend's proclivity for starting WWlll and getting hold of the nuclear codes? No., because if he were that crazy, why would she socialize with him?
Bernie is a Bernout because, if he were really threatened, all he'd have to do is call a news conference and name names, ensuring that he and his loved ones wouldn't be offed ("Hill's surrogate threatened to kill me and Jane and our kids"). Kind of cuts the varmints off at the pass. No, he just has feet of clay when things get tough or he wasn't all in from the beginning.
We'll see if Bernie has berned out. Me, I don't think so. I think if his new organization is successful in convincing people to run for office on his kind of agenda, that will pay dividends for decades to come. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the Democratic party has never been weaker in my lifetime. Enough commitment (and the killing of Citizens United), and we CAN take it back.
Comments
She is right, Sanders owes us the truth and an explanation
for him endorsing Clinton before it was necessary.
And it seems the election is lost for good.
https://www.euronews.com/live
If the Dem convention was a poker game...
If the dem convention was a poker game and Bernie knew someone was cheating, would he keep on playing?? Caught red handed cheating in poker usually means violence of some sort - if you had the balls Bernie....
Peace
FN
"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
Well, if you were playing poker in a Las Vegas casino and
the casino cheated you, would you really want to piss off the mob? How successful could you hope to be?
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Here's an extemely likely
Here's an extemely likely explanation:
"You will get in line Or you will be finding pieces of your family from coast to coast".
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Hey that's the way the Mafia use to play -
Until it became the government...
Peace
FN
"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
Don't see how that makes
Don't see how that makes Bernie a coward.
You and all those calling Bernie names; get on back to me after you have stood up to the Political mafia and exposed their dirty secrets.
And offered the opportunity to the US electorate and the judicial system to make changes based on truth and reality instead of the lie of alleged democracy.
Get back to me with your criticism AFTER YOU have put yourself in the sites of those dark elements while risking your life to expose what goes on behind the vail of
Corruption and Graft Merchants.
How safe and entertaining for you to be critical of Bernie; while maintaining your safety of NOT being in their crosshairs~
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
I'm with you . . .
Let's not forget that a DNC data dude was murdered. And the guy with the freak weight lifting accident.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Thank you Marilyn~
Thank you Marilyn~
That is exactly what I am referring to.
I let myself hope . . .
That Bernie's Rare Goodness would protect and sweep him into office.
And it would be World Changing~
(and it may turn up an O'Henry ending yet)
TPTB Are merciless and I am not prepated to taunt the one person who stood up to them; for not being the sacrificial lamb.
Which would solve nothing~
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Thank you Marilyn~
Thank you Marilyn~
That is exactly what I am referring to.
I let myself hope . . .
That Bernie's Rare Goodness would protect and sweep him into office.
And it would be World Changing~
(and it may turn up an O'Henry ending yet)
TPTB Are merciless and I am not prepated to taunt the one person who stood up to them; for not being the sacrificial lamb.
Which would solve nothing~
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Using that logic then?
If we use the "I'm afraid" logic to get anything done - then I suppose you're correct, we are done as an electorate. Chris Hedges has pretty much given up on the system but yet he still advocates for civil disobedience - if you're going to be frightened out of your wits right out of the gate then we (you) are sunk...
Peace
FN
"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
Uh FN~
Uh FN~
I am concluding, from your rousing speech on how "we" should not be backing down from fear;
THAT YOU ARE IN ANY WAY INCLUDED IN THE RISK
That you now advocate that someone else who has already risked more than you will ever know . . .
Should take
Yeah!!! Rah Rah . . .
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Nathan Hale did NOT say -
"I regret that I can only run this fast from my enemies for my country"...
Come on now, seriously even if someone wanted to do harm to Bernie or his relatives it would be obvious to all. And the convention did continue and they got the results they wanted so what would be served now by hurting Bernie. Ralph Nader, Chomsky and Hedges have said really nasty things about the government and nothing, nothing has happened to them. They may have not been given federal jobs because of their opinions but ask Bernie if he is afraid - I would think not...
Peace
FN
"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhgh
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhgh
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
I don't think Bernie is afraid
for himself or his family. I think he really is afraid of a Trump presidency. Were he to have led his flock in a revolt against the Democratic Party, a Trump victory in November would have been a possible, maybe even a likely result. Who among us would be willing to shoulder sole responsibility for that eventuality? And remember, right from the beginning Bernie has promised to support the eventual Dem nominee. Can we blame him now, for keeping his promise?
native
I feel like I'm in
a time-warp reading your comment. "Were he to have led his flock in a revolt against the Democratic Party, a Trump victory in November would have been a possible, maybe even a likely result."
As for shouldering the sole responsibility for a trump victory? I'm in Ohio and I plan on voting for Jill. If clinton loses Ohio by 1 vote I'll be proud to stand up and take responsibility. As for Bernie making promises? I think they should have went out the window when he realized the fix was in.
And speaking of fixes. Don't worry about poor hillary not getting elected. With the koch bros in her corner pulling the strings on the repub governors in the swing states (I'm looking at you scott and kasich) she can rig her little corrupt heart out. The primary was a test to see if they could rig and if the media could cover it up. They passed both with flying colors...
I think he is afraid of Trump ...
I also think he had relatives lost in the Holocaust. I think there are people that have an attuned ear to what Trump represents for that reason. In no way do I blame or think less of Bernie taking the path he has.
Myself, I don't fear Trump, he's a buffoon.
I fear the one that comes next - the one that isn't.
$hill Shill --
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
It seems pretty certain
that there were threats involved. History tells us that The $hill and Hubby are known to play dirty, and Bernie, while possessing a Spine of Steel, likely is sensitive to threats to his family --
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
Another point of view
Not negating all of what Debbie said, but here's another point of view.
Bernie KEPT his delegates.
Indictment within nest 3 months is still possible.
http://www.justicenewsnetwork.com/op-ed-this-is-how-our-revolution-dies-...
And, as reported here yesterday
He did *not* call for nomination by acclimation. He very carefully avoided saying that. In fact, he called that all of the roll call votes be recorded before asking that Hillary be "chosen" as the nominee.
Yes most people here know that by now...
But if you're still hoping that the op ed (read it if you didn't) posted by Caerus has any chance of happening then you are depending on some slender thread of wishing thinking. The system doesn't usually eat its own. Bernie may have some alternate reasoning for holding on to his delegate, it won't cost him anything to hang on to the op ed's theme. I don't think he has been threatened to do what he has done, it wouldn't make sense to alienate some possible voters who may support his down line candidates (like Florida and DWS's opponent). But still, he was interviewed and said that the DNC's actions were despicable and called for DWS's resignation - so he WAS aware of the fix being in while the process of the convention was still in motion. He could have done something other than sit on his hands, I believe you could see in his face the frustration of not being able to come up with a serious move that would have threatened something (like in playing chess) but at that point it was "checkmate" Hillary's favor...
Peace
FN
"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
Once Comey was in the tank on the indictment
there were no more moves that could threaten Hillary.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
and who of his followers really know about it or that it did
make a difference?
https://www.euronews.com/live
FN, Tell me again~
FN, Tell me again~
How is it that you have any authority to speak on the topic of how much sarifice would be involved for Bernie to make the move, that you are not exactly making clear?
How much more than Bernie have you contributed to this cause?
What sacrifices have you yourself made for liberty?
Get back to me when you have Senator Sanders' Actual Vantage Point on this matter OR
Have Contributed with his historical level of Service and Sacrifice and Bravery.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Straw Man concoction -
You've concocted this paranoid delusion of a "straw man" (the fraidy cat) - and then proceed to knock me down with it. Well, I'll tell you right now - I for one am NOT afraid! You can, if you wish, make conspiracy minded reasons as to why Sanders did not perform better than he did or speak his own mind because of possible retributions but the fact is that these are politicians we are talking about here, they do what they do for THEIR best interest not yours...
I don't owe you any further explanations, I've exhausted my patience with this non-material discussion. Read my sig line for further clarification.
Peace
FN
"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN
So Sorry to have to point
So Sorry to have to point reality out to you; and ruin your perfectly lovely Oh poor me; "Even though I risk nothing and know less about what goes on behind the dark seemy scenes~
I am qualified to jump on the Bernie is chicken and a typical politician; band wagon;
and
~don't~ you~ dare~ point~ out~ that~ I~ might~ not~ have~ a~ clue;
Or the right; to lambast a great hero to many of us; for his decades long dedication and commitment to this cause, abandoned by most others in politics.
He is one of The Very Bravest and One Of the Rarest Who is Not out to line His own pockets.
According to you; Bernie just
showed his true colors~
Yet;
He has actually been showing them to us all, for multiple decades. And He Is Golden Rule All the Way~
You'll have to find someone
far less virtuous to our cause, for your meme.
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” ~Benjamin Franklin
Trump is a Plant; Bern is a Bust
I lived in NYC as a child and young adult and Trump was a bombastic fixture. He got the Central Park skating rink repaired when the City couldn't. But mostly he stuck to hotel and apartment deals. He never once talked all this lunatic talk about Moslems, women, Hitler, Putin, bombing people, or building walls to keep them out. Conclusion: It's an act suggested by Bill Clinton to make Hillary look sane and the lesser evil next to him so she'd get the scared shitless votes. Let's not forget that Bill and Donald are golfing buddies and the Clintons attended Trump's latest wedding. Think: Is it normal for a friend (Hillary) to scaremonger about a friend's proclivity for starting WWlll and getting hold of the nuclear codes? No., because if he were that crazy, why would she socialize with him?
Bernie is a Bernout because, if he were really threatened, all he'd have to do is call a news conference and name names, ensuring that he and his loved ones wouldn't be offed ("Hill's surrogate threatened to kill me and Jane and our kids"). Kind of cuts the varmints off at the pass. No, he just has feet of clay when things get tough or he wasn't all in from the beginning.
I give Trump points for the skating rink
Even if it was just grandstanding and showing off, it was doing a good turn for the general public.
For the rest of his wheeler-dealering, though - meh.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I remember Trump too, or at least I thought I did ...
living in upstate, getting the city stations on cable. But Newsweek just put out this lovely exchange from 1993. Trump being Trump.
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-elect...
We'll see if Bernie has berned out. Me, I don't think so. I think if his new organization is successful in convincing people to run for office on his kind of agenda, that will pay dividends for decades to come. I've said it before, I'll say it again: the Democratic party has never been weaker in my lifetime. Enough commitment (and the killing of Citizens United), and we CAN take it back.