It's probably best for everyone concerned, including myself, that I just shut up now. If my opinions are causing folks to want to leave this site, perhaps it's best that I just silence myself.
I have not been around much but never did I think you were out of line
maybe my line was so far out of mainstream line that I didn't even notice
this is surely a joke
what is out of line is the drift of the world
here is a long article about how military in the US is aligned with the administration ready to pounce on those who are against war
the power that runs the place, along with the bankers
we lost Vietnam because of dissent at home, not because it was wrong from the start, and wrong in the war on indigenous people and wrong in how history has been rewritten
Thanks Don. I loved the whole thing but this made me laugh
The “electability” conversation is where it all becomes clear. The argument that Jeremy Corbyn is unelectable is being made by three candidates who can’t even win an election against Jeremy Corbyn. Their arguments are backed by two former prime ministers: Gordon Brown, whose main claim
to fame is losing an election to the Tories in 2010, and Tony Blair, the Ghost of Bad Decisions Past. Both of them are making the case that the ability to win a general election is the first and only important quality in a leader after years of muttering and shuffling behind Ed Miliband, a very nice man whose middle name could have been “Constitutionally Unable to Win a General Election”.
I would say make that three or four decades ago, back to before Clinton and his poodle Blair invented the sellout con of New Labour or the New Democrat's.
Rumours of the death of the political left have been exaggerated. Corbyn, like Syriza in Greece, Podemos in Spain and the Scottish National Party, is an immune response from a sick and suffering body politic trying to fight off a chronic infection that threatens to swallow hope for ever. There is a crisis in representative democracy in the west and it was established well before the stock-market collapse of 2008. The old centre left is at odds with its electorate because it decided for itself the limits of what was politically possible a decade ago.
I hung my reply on the wrong comment by Don. I was talking about this link which is a a very good political opinion piece about the so called left from The New Statesman. this is the link
Does anyone remember the (historically accurate) sequence in Reds where the 33 or so people in the US who identified as communists commenced screaming at one another, and split into two factions, each claiming to be the "real" communists? How both factions then sent delegations to the nascent Soviet Union, each demanding that the Bolsheviks recognize it as the "real" US communist party, and spurn the other? To which the Russians replied: "The Executive Committee of the Comintern has decided against endorsing either the Communist Labor Party or the Communist Party of America, and instructs the two parties to merge forthwith."
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
is the worst kind. I agree with hecate, except we would not be mimes. We would all just be bumps on a log. I do not do being a bump on the log or silence very well myself.
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“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I was always just a guest and the direction of this blog was always going to shake out in the wash. Now it's done that
and that's fine.
People like to say we're all working for the same thing. But really we're not. If I'm working to overthrow the entire system
and others are working to elect Bernie Sanders, that is not the same thing as much as some think of Bernie Sanders words and
capabilities.
It's like on Daily Kos, the stated agenda is to elect democrats, to work for the Democratic party. The owner gets to set the agenda and
the rules. And that's the way the game is played. I think it's fair.
I started my own blog now, where I can write things to myself. It's called "GlobalRevolutionCenter". Pie in the sky for some but I don't care, I'm not settling. I don't know why any of us should settle any longer.
I don't have to. That's the thing, I don't have to settle. It does me and my children and my grandchildren absolutely no good. In fact,
I refuse to settle, to compromise. I just won't.
So JtC, instead of shutting up, you go for it. That's why you did this thing, to go for it.
for it I don't believe in 'victories for compromise' with the magnitude of what we all face right there for everyone to see. I've had enough of that bs. double speak. Nobody is marginalized here. We seem run the gamut in how we personally react and take on the beast. If we work at chipping away inside the system or work outside to tear it down or even do both it does not mean that people hear are not aware of the reality we our children and grandchildren and all people globally face. Solidarity working to stop this, does not mean that only one way or one issue is the answer. It takes people overcoming the divide and conquer strategy that seems to be working well. anyway as they say we can chew gum and walk at the same time.
I am voting for Bernie even though he's part and parcel of what I'm fighting. I am doing this because I find it interesting that the voters are riled up enough to reject the inevitable madwoman who the 'owners' have picked to be the biggest boss. I stand in solidarity with people globally who use every means they can to pry this vampire squid off humanities face. Push back on every level is needed. I might not be a card carrying member of the people's Judean front or the Democratic party but I stand in solidarity with all people who are willing to take on this madness. I know Bernie is part of the problem but those who turn out to hear him are at least aware that something is horribly wrong. Meanwhile how's about figuring out other means and ways to get these fuckers out of power.
All roads lead to Rome including my city government that are all Democratic and fly under the progressive flag. think that's not connected to the freaking endless bloody wars they call 'foreign policy'. think again as a lot of the destruction/demolishing of my Democratic city is being financed by corporations from Shanghi, Qatar or other bankster oligarch's domestic and foreign. It's a many headed hydra but it's all connected so putting down other peoples efforts as puny resistance or supporting the beast is underestimating and devaluing the power of people who may use a different approach but are still aware that something has to stop this monstrous death and destruction.
nor an agenda either. It's just a group of people who are getting together to chat about this and that.
Personally I think the only answer is some sort of revolution, but I'm not willing to get a gun so that's a bit awkward. I don't think elections make any difference now, if they ever did. But I'm one out of however many we have here so my opinion can't possibly be our direction. If some agree with me it's still not a direction. It's merely agreement...or disagreement...or "eh".
We don't have to think this or that, we don't have to be unified. That's why I like this site better than "Argueville" or "Hillary Used to be 45". By the way, speaking of that place, I love how every poll is now an outlier.
Anyway, my opinion on whatever this is about is this: Differences we might have aren't important. If we get anything at all from talking here then it's worth it to stay and keep having that communication.
Either they've sold out, aka veal pen, or dropped out. The people here are trying to do the best they can caught in the middle of a squabbling and ineffectual left wing. Is the lesser of evils an argument that has been used against us - you bet. Only, Bernie is the first candidate that gives that argument any truth. If anyone thinks they are the only one that's pissed, think again. I am pissed at Kos for selling out, and I am pissed at people from the further left, for lack of a better label, for dropping out.
We all know what's wrong and what "needs" to happen. What we don't know is how to make it happen. Saying it and doing it are two different things and dropping out or waiting for foreign interests and global revolutions as a solution is not a Plan A. How can the further left create a global revolution when it can't even create one in the U.S.? They take their bat and ball and drop out while batshit crazy right-wingers and the corporations co-opt it all. The left may not be able to elect its preferred candidates in its preferred system, but if they showed up, they could make damn sure the neoliberal Democrats lose by voting for their Republican opponents and letting the Democrats know THEY/WE DID IT. If anyone is suggesting me or mine take to the streets to get beaten, killed, or saddled with a felony, no way. It's a sucker's bet, and if we aren't smarter than that in 2015, maybe we deserve to be in mud huts.
I understand the anger at the system. I don't understand the anger (bad word) at people here or at Bernie for doing what they can. Since nobody is hearing the further left anyway and they're all getting nowhere fast, what have they got to lose by joining Bernie's protest movement and at least succeed getting their voices heard? And if and when Bernie gets elected and tries to implement change and can't, the street advocates can all pour into the streets with their pitchforks.
I appreciate everyone's candor. I hope no one leaves. If friends can't even put it on the table, is it any wonder the left is totally useless and can't find its ass with both hands. Now that I've run off at the mouth, I am going to watch the videos at the links that were left in the other diary.
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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
who think that subdividing us further is a worthy goal.
You can see it all over GOS. Just look at the #BLM people (many of them white, I might add) who think that guilting and blaming white liberals is the way to achieve their goals, rather than actually fighting racists.
It goes beyond race. There is also the crowd of "If you don't agree with me about X, then you must be worthless human being in every sense."
The idea of finding common ground with people that aren't like you has gone out the window.
For instance, Republicans are disgusted with the money corruption in politics these days. Will liberals take advantage of that? Of course not.
We're too busy finding reason we are different.
It seems to be immature insecurity that is the driving force here. If you were secure in what you were and what you stood for, then you wouldn't spend any time at all finding differences between you and like-minded people.
joining forces with Norquist on common ground. Today they villainize Cornel West because he said at some time that Obama was Bush in blackface. It isn't just the fools at dailykos either. The entire left is irrelevant because that is what they make themselves as they slice and dice away its influence. The same way I no longer call myself a Democrat, I no longer call myself a liberal. I'd rather be associated with a tree stump.
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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
More to the point, let's not conflate Daily Kos, its participants, and "the left" How many at Kos claim (falsely) to be "pragmatists"? That isn't "left", especially not the way they use that word. Much of the Kossack left is those who think that they were or at least would've been against Jim Crow in the south. They also think that makes them a liberal and that is all that it means or takes to be a liberal.
Many are a bit further along and think that they stand for "equality for all", but buried in that is their frame of reference that equality means equal treatment for equal curriculum vitae's, that you are what you have and have not done. Yes, a black Harvard graduate, even if female, is equal to a white from the same or similar school, but somebody who dropped out of Grambling after 2 years or went to a 2 year school, well, of course, that's different.
Those are nice, comfy, conservadems. We all need to relearn our language - the center isn't moderate, it is nothing, a mean, but its defining characteristic, support for the status quo, is conservatism.
That is not to say that one can't join with conservatives on common ground, but one does have to find some upon which to join forces, some where each side agrees that it is dommon ground. More importantly, however, is that there aren't two poles and a single axis, but that takes a much longer essay than I'm going to attempt today.
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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
is there complete disregard for understanding the motivations of people who disagree with them.
For instance, conservatives will say they oppose Obama because he's a "socialist". The charge is obviously rediculous. However, instead of addressing the rediculous charge, the amatuer psychoanalysts on DKos will "see through" the reasons that conservatives give and announce that it is all "cover" for their racism.
Really? Can't conservatives simply be wrong for the bullsh*t reasons that they honestly believe? And are you so confident in your psychoanalyst skills that you have zero training in that you can confidently say that everyone that disagrees with you is lying?
And if you call out liberals on DKos for this, they will simply tell you that in the cases they are wrong don't matter. As if accuracy is not important.
Lying about other people lying in order to advance your cause is a political sickness.
Without some context, even though your comments are well-written, I can't understand them very well.
(BTW, I read quite a bit of Hamsher at one time, and usually agreed with her. Actually, I considered her and FDL to be considerably to the left of DKos, which is the most conservative Dem blog that I've ever blogged at for any length of time.)
Does it mean those on the left who are 'outside of' the Democratic Party, maybe?
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Most of the left have left or been banned. The leftish centrists there who think they are left are all over the place. Then they're are the Hillary supporters - definitely ex-Republicans and rightish centrists. I have no idea what black kos is beside single issue oriented. A few dropped comments in the Bernie morning round-up accusing West's race-laced comments about Obama of being racist has some of the Bernie supporters lamenting West helping with Bernie's campaign. My guess is the majority of people there are some degree of center.
Who is the left?
Political spectrum:United States - Europe (Wikipedia)
Far-left/Radical left Left-wing
Centre-left
Centre/Radical centre
Centre-right
Right-wing Far-right/Radical right
Party platform
Extremist Radical
Reformist Moderate
Syncretic
Conservative Reactionary
Fundamentalist
What's a radical centre? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. If I had to define myself using Wikipedia, I'd say I'm mostly radical left wing, sometimes center right, and usually pissed off.
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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I can't stand any sort of political labels that are used in the US. Liberal and Progressives and Libertarians included.
To me they all have no clear definitions. hat's why I don't like to use one of them for myself. Same is true for your parties. They seem to fluctuate so much and their platform is whatever a running candidate for that party wants it to be. I mean ... heh.
The only label I can understand and be somewhat clear about is the one of being a Democratic Socialist.
Do I have to label myself ? I call myself Lady Equality. How about that? My lady has her eyes wide open, a stretched out arm with a torch and a scale that is in perfect balance. I think that would mean I can't be a libertarian, or a liberal, or a progressive and it's pretty useless if I call myself left or right, just because that's the way people labeled themselves in the past. Liberals and libertarians would allow equality become unequal, Progressives could run for goals that make equality a joke.
Equality and Liberty are counterbalancing themselves. You have to have enough liberty to fight for equality, and you have to restrain liberties to maintain equality. So, what the heck. I am getting tired of those labels. Constantly people look for the perfect label or the perfect meme or whatever you call it.
I strongly believe that people want equality in all aspects of their lives and that most indigenous people have come to an agreement in their small tribes about how to achieve that equality, which includes different rights between the genders, but making both genders equal in their dependency from each other. (something most of us would see as completely negating overall equality of humans) The desire to equality is so strong, because their survival instincts work constantly against that goal and all are busy with survival and glad when they end up less miserable than the next next poor guy.
I think it's much easier to gain liberty than achieving equality.
since there were five comments in a row that referred to either 'the left,' or 'liberals.'
If there is no common definition, the use of either term is pretty much meaningless. So thanks for the reply, DK.
Regarding 'the Left' being at blame for ideological rifts amongst Democrats, the 'leftists' that I blog with at ZMag and a couple of other blogs, haven't voted for Democrats for years, or in some cases, decades.
So, I'm reluctant to blame them for the current sad state of the Democratic Party, or any of the ongoing rifts within the Party Base.
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Lastly, what the hell does an uprate mean - that you agree with the sentiment or what?
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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Unless it is something that I utterly disagree with, a thumbs up means that I read your comment and I am glad to see you are having input into the conversation. So it is essentially the same as what dkmich says, at least from my perspective.
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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Just kidding. This place is absolutely fucking nuts today. We have insanity with normalcy interspersed as if nothing is going on... roflamao..... Am I the only one that thinks this is funny? I sure hope nobody walks away mad.
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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
China says its economy grew 7% in the second quarter. Economists in the U.S. don’t buy it.
More than 96% of respondents to the latest Wall Street Journal survey of 64 economists–not all of whom answered every question–said China’s gross-domestic-product estimates don’t accurately reflect the state of the world’s second-biggest economy.
“Official data are manufactured to fit the government’s narrative,” said Stephen Stanley, chief economist at Amherst Pierpont Securities
Of course the United States lie too. It's just that China's lies are bigger.
When confronted with instances in which this is patently false, they invariable claim that the data is wrong and the theory is right. I consider them to be a singularly noc-credible source for anything because they practice an a-priori dogma and not an empirical science. They might as well be priests.
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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
tea leaf readers. We work in quantitative public opinion research doing the math, let's do the numbers. It always amazes me what the annalist's can predict or declare to be the facts or the infallible information in the data. They are little more then the priests of Delphi who read entail's and claimed it to be the future or some divine truth. then again I've always thought political science was an oxymoron. Don't even want to get into the funny money data manipulation. Numbers don't lie they are science but they are an abstract truth that is interpreted and used to distort the reality and mislead people into accepting the fictional all too human story of greed and violence they use to bamboozle and intimate people into believing is the only reality available, the invisible hand made visible and given credence from the cooked explanations extracted from numbers of mass deception and deflection.
would consider as civilized or humane. They already have tent cities as camps. Really not much different from the tent cities of refugee camps in the ME itself.
They better step up to the challenge and let people live. You can't stop migrating people. With borders or without. Letting them in to the EU will not encourage the others, who are still back in their countries suffering, to come too. I believe the ones who risk to flee and migrate risking their lives, their freedoms (treated by the "slave handler" like "dreck") and any security they ever had and lost, will do it and don't give a damn, if there are borders, fences or anything to stop them. And the others will not risk it and stay behind consciously having made that decision.
It's just one of those things that develop like a snowball becoming an avalanche. It's possible if the situation and war end in those countries, people will go back. But once they have crossed big waters and become a refugee migrant that took the big ships, those won't go back. The ones who try, end up often very miserable and desperate, sometimes not welcomed back in their homes even.
Our PM Harper had $350 million dollars in a refugee assistance account and didn't spend one cent of it.
$350 million for refugees and immigration returned to government, unspent
Canada’s immigration department returned more than $350 million to the federal treasury in unspent funds over a three-year period, a sum that included millions for processing refugee applications and helping asylum-seekers settle into Canada.
The figure, drawn from official government financial reports, has prompted renewed criticism of the Conservatives, who have been under fire on the campaign trail for their handling of the Syrian refugee crisis.
So you are going to be just a tech guy behind the scenes who has opinions but who won't express them?
As an outsider to the US elections, I notice that not everyone here is okay with Bernie and I'm glad that someone expresses his contrary opinion. It makes for a more complete description of the politician as a human being. It makes for a more interesting blog if it is not a monolith.
It's not best for me if you shut up now.
I hope everyone stays and discusses and argues and debates.
that you do what is most comfortable and enjoyable for you. But, for the life of me, I can't imagine that anyone could possibly object to the Blogmaster (is that term still used?) being able to 'have his say.'
Seriously, self-censoring can be detrimental, and even a little stressful, IMO. Maybe after a couple of days, when everything is back to normal, you might reconsider your stance. I believe it was hecate who said that he'd like to see you have more to say, not less!
As Marilyn mentioned, diversity of opinion helps keep things interesting. And with all that's coming up in the near future, we definitely need your insight on matters.
Also, thanks for all the hard work that you do here, in order for us to have this wonderful venue for sharing ideas.
I'm not sure which I enjoy the most--spouting off, or the company of all the 'good people,' here. (as Smiley would say.)
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
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Comments
what? is this a joke?
I have not been around much but never did I think you were out of line
maybe my line was so far out of mainstream line that I didn't even notice
this is surely a joke
what is out of line is the drift of the world
here is a long article about how military in the US is aligned with the administration ready to pounce on those who are against war
the power that runs the place, along with the bankers
we lost Vietnam because of dissent at home, not because it was wrong from the start, and wrong in the war on indigenous people and wrong in how history has been rewritten
US War Theories Target Dissenters
long article, lots of legal stuff, that describes how dissent will be crushed if needed
Great link
Thanks Don. I loved the whole thing but this made me laugh
I would say make that three or four decades ago, back to before Clinton and his poodle Blair invented the sellout con of New Labour or the New Democrat's.
whoops wrong comment
I hung my reply on the wrong comment by Don. I was talking about this link which is a a very good political opinion piece about the so called left from The New Statesman. this is the link
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/what-corbyn-moment-means-left
i don't know
that a blog where everyone falls silent would work. It would be like a mime troupe.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlwdpNw1FW8]
Does anyone remember the (historically accurate) sequence in Reds where the 33 or so people in the US who identified as communists commenced screaming at one another, and split into two factions, each claiming to be the "real" communists? How both factions then sent delegations to the nascent Soviet Union, each demanding that the Bolsheviks recognize it as the "real" US communist party, and spurn the other? To which the Russians replied: "The Executive Committee of the Comintern has decided against endorsing either the Communist Labor Party or the Communist Party of America, and instructs the two parties to merge forthwith."
Not only recall that, but have also studied it
And when it comes to a silent blog....
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq73FAo4x38]
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
clever song ; )
So by that logic, a silent blog, where no one posts, would get more hits than God.
At least for a while. Until it is "surpassed" by the blog that doesn't even exist.
but,
to be serious for a moment, my only complaint with JtC's presence on this blog is that he does not speak here enough.
Maybe because of that Mean boss, who makes him work elsewhere, too hard, and too much.
Self censorship
is the worst kind. I agree with hecate, except we would not be mimes. We would all just be bumps on a log. I do not do being a bump on the log or silence very well myself.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Morning JtC.
If anyone knows what's going on here this morning, I wish they'd let me in on it.
All I want is the truth. Just give me some truth. John Lennon
No man. It's your blog. Do your thing.
I was always just a guest and the direction of this blog was always going to shake out in the wash. Now it's done that
and that's fine.
People like to say we're all working for the same thing. But really we're not. If I'm working to overthrow the entire system
and others are working to elect Bernie Sanders, that is not the same thing as much as some think of Bernie Sanders words and
capabilities.
It's like on Daily Kos, the stated agenda is to elect democrats, to work for the Democratic party. The owner gets to set the agenda and
the rules. And that's the way the game is played. I think it's fair.
I started my own blog now, where I can write things to myself. It's called "GlobalRevolutionCenter". Pie in the sky for some but I don't care, I'm not settling. I don't know why any of us should settle any longer.
I don't have to. That's the thing, I don't have to settle. It does me and my children and my grandchildren absolutely no good. In fact,
I refuse to settle, to compromise. I just won't.
So JtC, instead of shutting up, you go for it. That's why you did this thing, to go for it.
You can blow it up if you have the tools.
If you don't, you chip away at it. The end goal is to get rid of it.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I refuse to settle
for it I don't believe in 'victories for compromise' with the magnitude of what we all face right there for everyone to see. I've had enough of that bs. double speak. Nobody is marginalized here. We seem run the gamut in how we personally react and take on the beast. If we work at chipping away inside the system or work outside to tear it down or even do both it does not mean that people hear are not aware of the reality we our children and grandchildren and all people globally face. Solidarity working to stop this, does not mean that only one way or one issue is the answer. It takes people overcoming the divide and conquer strategy that seems to be working well. anyway as they say we can chew gum and walk at the same time.
I am voting for Bernie even though he's part and parcel of what I'm fighting. I am doing this because I find it interesting that the voters are riled up enough to reject the inevitable madwoman who the 'owners' have picked to be the biggest boss. I stand in solidarity with people globally who use every means they can to pry this vampire squid off humanities face. Push back on every level is needed. I might not be a card carrying member of the people's Judean front or the Democratic party but I stand in solidarity with all people who are willing to take on this madness. I know Bernie is part of the problem but those who turn out to hear him are at least aware that something is horribly wrong. Meanwhile how's about figuring out other means and ways to get these fuckers out of power.
All roads lead to Rome including my city government that are all Democratic and fly under the progressive flag. think that's not connected to the freaking endless bloody wars they call 'foreign policy'. think again as a lot of the destruction/demolishing of my Democratic city is being financed by corporations from Shanghi, Qatar or other bankster oligarch's domestic and foreign. It's a many headed hydra but it's all connected so putting down other peoples efforts as puny resistance or supporting the beast is underestimating and devaluing the power of people who may use a different approach but are still aware that something has to stop this monstrous death and destruction.
there isn't any direction here
nor an agenda either. It's just a group of people who are getting together to chat about this and that.
Personally I think the only answer is some sort of revolution, but I'm not willing to get a gun so that's a bit awkward. I don't think elections make any difference now, if they ever did. But I'm one out of however many we have here so my opinion can't possibly be our direction. If some agree with me it's still not a direction. It's merely agreement...or disagreement...or "eh".
We don't have to think this or that, we don't have to be unified. That's why I like this site better than "Argueville" or "Hillary Used to be 45". By the way, speaking of that place, I love how every poll is now an outlier.
Anyway, my opinion on whatever this is about is this: Differences we might have aren't important. If we get anything at all from talking here then it's worth it to stay and keep having that communication.
There is a divide on the left, and I blame the left for it.
Either they've sold out, aka veal pen, or dropped out. The people here are trying to do the best they can caught in the middle of a squabbling and ineffectual left wing. Is the lesser of evils an argument that has been used against us - you bet. Only, Bernie is the first candidate that gives that argument any truth. If anyone thinks they are the only one that's pissed, think again. I am pissed at Kos for selling out, and I am pissed at people from the further left, for lack of a better label, for dropping out.
We all know what's wrong and what "needs" to happen. What we don't know is how to make it happen. Saying it and doing it are two different things and dropping out or waiting for foreign interests and global revolutions as a solution is not a Plan A. How can the further left create a global revolution when it can't even create one in the U.S.? They take their bat and ball and drop out while batshit crazy right-wingers and the corporations co-opt it all. The left may not be able to elect its preferred candidates in its preferred system, but if they showed up, they could make damn sure the neoliberal Democrats lose by voting for their Republican opponents and letting the Democrats know THEY/WE DID IT. If anyone is suggesting me or mine take to the streets to get beaten, killed, or saddled with a felony, no way. It's a sucker's bet, and if we aren't smarter than that in 2015, maybe we deserve to be in mud huts.
I understand the anger at the system. I don't understand the anger (bad word) at people here or at Bernie for doing what they can. Since nobody is hearing the further left anyway and they're all getting nowhere fast, what have they got to lose by joining Bernie's protest movement and at least succeed getting their voices heard? And if and when Bernie gets elected and tries to implement change and can't, the street advocates can all pour into the streets with their pitchforks.
I appreciate everyone's candor. I hope no one leaves. If friends can't even put it on the table, is it any wonder the left is totally useless and can't find its ass with both hands. Now that I've run off at the mouth, I am going to watch the videos at the links that were left in the other diary.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I'm frustrated with liberals
who think that subdividing us further is a worthy goal.
You can see it all over GOS. Just look at the #BLM people (many of them white, I might add) who think that guilting and blaming white liberals is the way to achieve their goals, rather than actually fighting racists.
It goes beyond race. There is also the crowd of "If you don't agree with me about X, then you must be worthless human being in every sense."
The idea of finding common ground with people that aren't like you has gone out the window.
For instance, Republicans are disgusted with the money corruption in politics these days. Will liberals take advantage of that? Of course not.
We're too busy finding reason we are different.
It seems to be immature insecurity that is the driving force here. If you were secure in what you were and what you stood for, then you wouldn't spend any time at all finding differences between you and like-minded people.
They villainized Hamsher when she suggested
joining forces with Norquist on common ground. Today they villainize Cornel West because he said at some time that Obama was Bush in blackface. It isn't just the fools at dailykos either. The entire left is irrelevant because that is what they make themselves as they slice and dice away its influence. The same way I no longer call myself a Democrat, I no longer call myself a liberal. I'd rather be associated with a tree stump.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Some of us made that call long ago:
More to the point, let's not conflate Daily Kos, its participants, and "the left" How many at Kos claim (falsely) to be "pragmatists"? That isn't "left", especially not the way they use that word. Much of the Kossack left is those who think that they were or at least would've been against Jim Crow in the south. They also think that makes them a liberal and that is all that it means or takes to be a liberal.
Many are a bit further along and think that they stand for "equality for all", but buried in that is their frame of reference that equality means equal treatment for equal curriculum vitae's, that you are what you have and have not done. Yes, a black Harvard graduate, even if female, is equal to a white from the same or similar school, but somebody who dropped out of Grambling after 2 years or went to a 2 year school, well, of course, that's different.
Those are nice, comfy, conservadems. We all need to relearn our language - the center isn't moderate, it is nothing, a mean, but its defining characteristic, support for the status quo, is conservatism.
That is not to say that one can't join with conservatives on common ground, but one does have to find some upon which to join forces, some where each side agrees that it is dommon ground. More importantly, however, is that there aren't two poles and a single axis, but that takes a much longer essay than I'm going to attempt today.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I think another problem with liberals
is there complete disregard for understanding the motivations of people who disagree with them.
For instance, conservatives will say they oppose Obama because he's a "socialist". The charge is obviously rediculous. However, instead of addressing the rediculous charge, the amatuer psychoanalysts on DKos will "see through" the reasons that conservatives give and announce that it is all "cover" for their racism.
Really? Can't conservatives simply be wrong for the bullsh*t reasons that they honestly believe? And are you so confident in your psychoanalyst skills that you have zero training in that you can confidently say that everyone that disagrees with you is lying?
And if you call out liberals on DKos for this, they will simply tell you that in the cases they are wrong don't matter. As if accuracy is not important.
Lying about other people lying in order to advance your cause is a political sickness.
I am totally confused. Do you guys consider the folks
at DKos to be 'liberals?' Or, 'the Left?'
Without some context, even though your comments are well-written, I can't understand them very well.
(BTW, I read quite a bit of Hamsher at one time, and usually agreed with her. Actually, I considered her and FDL to be considerably to the left of DKos, which is the most conservative Dem blog that I've ever blogged at for any length of time.)
Does it mean those on the left who are 'outside of' the Democratic Party, maybe?
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I think there is a mix at dailykos.
Most of the left have left or been banned. The leftish centrists there who think they are left are all over the place. Then they're are the Hillary supporters - definitely ex-Republicans and rightish centrists. I have no idea what black kos is beside single issue oriented. A few dropped comments in the Bernie morning round-up accusing West's race-laced comments about Obama of being racist has some of the Bernie supporters lamenting West helping with Bernie's campaign. My guess is the majority of people there are some degree of center.
Who is the left?
What's a radical centre? Sounds like an oxymoron to me. If I had to define myself using Wikipedia, I'd say I'm mostly radical left wing, sometimes center right, and usually pissed off.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
that list looks so funny to me ...
is that supposed to have any meaning?
I can't stand any sort of political labels that are used in the US. Liberal and Progressives and Libertarians included.
To me they all have no clear definitions. hat's why I don't like to use one of them for myself. Same is true for your parties. They seem to fluctuate so much and their platform is whatever a running candidate for that party wants it to be. I mean ... heh.
The only label I can understand and be somewhat clear about is the one of being a Democratic Socialist.
Do I have to label myself ? I call myself Lady Equality. How about that? My lady has her eyes wide open, a stretched out arm with a torch and a scale that is in perfect balance. I think that would mean I can't be a libertarian, or a liberal, or a progressive and it's pretty useless if I call myself left or right, just because that's the way people labeled themselves in the past. Liberals and libertarians would allow equality become unequal, Progressives could run for goals that make equality a joke.
Equality and Liberty are counterbalancing themselves. You have to have enough liberty to fight for equality, and you have to restrain liberties to maintain equality. So, what the heck. I am getting tired of those labels. Constantly people look for the perfect label or the perfect meme or whatever you call it.
I strongly believe that people want equality in all aspects of their lives and that most indigenous people have come to an agreement in their small tribes about how to achieve that equality, which includes different rights between the genders, but making both genders equal in their dependency from each other. (something most of us would see as completely negating overall equality of humans) The desire to equality is so strong, because their survival instincts work constantly against that goal and all are busy with survival and glad when they end up less miserable than the next next poor guy.
I think it's much easier to gain liberty than achieving equality.
you agree with me...
left, further left, a little more left than further, furthest, most furthest? I have no clue what any of it means.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I agree with you both, but had to ask
since there were five comments in a row that referred to either 'the left,' or 'liberals.'
If there is no common definition, the use of either term is pretty much meaningless. So thanks for the reply, DK.
Regarding 'the Left' being at blame for ideological rifts amongst Democrats, the 'leftists' that I blog with at ZMag and a couple of other blogs, haven't voted for Democrats for years, or in some cases, decades.
So, I'm reluctant to blame them for the current sad state of the Democratic Party, or any of the ongoing rifts within the Party Base.
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Corruption on left - especially dkmich follow up
this is one of the main issues under discussion
the left abandoned its principles
What the Corbyn moment means for the left At long last, the left is asking itself whether power without principle is worth having.
Hey Don
Good to see you. Mercury must be in retrograde.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
What the hell is this? Worse yet, what have I been missing?
Lastly, what the hell does an uprate mean - that you agree with the sentiment or what?
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
For me
Unless it is something that I utterly disagree with, a thumbs up means that I read your comment and I am glad to see you are having input into the conversation. So it is essentially the same as what dkmich says, at least from my perspective.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Yes. I meant specifically as to JtCs suggestion that he shut up.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
So now you're telling JtC to shut up???
Just kidding. This place is absolutely fucking nuts today. We have insanity with normalcy interspersed as if nothing is going on... roflamao..... Am I the only one that thinks this is funny? I sure hope nobody walks away mad.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I think only JtC can answer that
if and when he is willing.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
96% of economists say China is lying about the economy
link
Of course the United States lie too. It's just that China's lies are bigger.
96% of economists swear that a price drop will increse sales.
When confronted with instances in which this is patently false, they invariable claim that the data is wrong and the theory is right. I consider them to be a singularly noc-credible source for anything because they practice an a-priori dogma and not an empirical science. They might as well be priests.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I call them
tea leaf readers. We work in quantitative public opinion research doing the math, let's do the numbers. It always amazes me what the annalist's can predict or declare to be the facts or the infallible information in the data. They are little more then the priests of Delphi who read entail's and claimed it to be the future or some divine truth. then again I've always thought political science was an oxymoron. Don't even want to get into the funny money data manipulation. Numbers don't lie they are science but they are an abstract truth that is interpreted and used to distort the reality and mislead people into accepting the fictional all too human story of greed and violence they use to bamboozle and intimate people into believing is the only reality available, the invisible hand made visible and given credence from the cooked explanations extracted from numbers of mass deception and deflection.
Wonderful news!
And this demonstrates why the Chinese have the highest IQs in the world and are the world's greatest strategists.
(We're talking about non-Chinese economists, right?)
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Germany puts army on standby
link
There is no way in hell Europe can absorb all of those people.
I'd put them all on a bus to England and the US.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
didn't mean to make light of their plight.
I'm sure they would all rather be home if there was a home left.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I think they could, just not at standards they themselves
would consider as civilized or humane. They already have tent cities as camps. Really not much different from the tent cities of refugee camps in the ME itself.
They better step up to the challenge and let people live. You can't stop migrating people. With borders or without. Letting them in to the EU will not encourage the others, who are still back in their countries suffering, to come too. I believe the ones who risk to flee and migrate risking their lives, their freedoms (treated by the "slave handler" like "dreck") and any security they ever had and lost, will do it and don't give a damn, if there are borders, fences or anything to stop them. And the others will not risk it and stay behind consciously having made that decision.
It's just one of those things that develop like a snowball becoming an avalanche. It's possible if the situation and war end in those countries, people will go back. But once they have crossed big waters and become a refugee migrant that took the big ships, those won't go back. The ones who try, end up often very miserable and desperate, sometimes not welcomed back in their homes even.
Don't forget Canada, we have lots of room
Our PM Harper had $350 million dollars in a refugee assistance account and didn't spend one cent of it.
To thine own self be true.
I think this speaks for itself
"that I just silence myself"
So you are going to be just a tech guy behind the scenes who has opinions but who won't express them?
As an outsider to the US elections, I notice that not everyone here is okay with Bernie and I'm glad that someone expresses his contrary opinion. It makes for a more complete description of the politician as a human being. It makes for a more interesting blog if it is not a monolith.
It's not best for me if you shut up now.
I hope everyone stays and discusses and argues and debates.
To thine own self be true.
Hear, hear! Couldn't have said it better myself. JtC, I hope
that you do what is most comfortable and enjoyable for you. But, for the life of me, I can't imagine that anyone could possibly object to the Blogmaster (is that term still used?) being able to 'have his say.'
Seriously, self-censoring can be detrimental, and even a little stressful, IMO. Maybe after a couple of days, when everything is back to normal, you might reconsider your stance. I believe it was hecate who said that he'd like to see you have more to say, not less!
As Marilyn mentioned, diversity of opinion helps keep things interesting. And with all that's coming up in the near future, we definitely need your insight on matters.
Also, thanks for all the hard work that you do here, in order for us to have this wonderful venue for sharing ideas.
I'm not sure which I enjoy the most--spouting off, or the company of all the 'good people,' here. (as Smiley would say.)
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.