Where do we go from here?
Where do we go from here......
Bernie Sanders chose a path to try and reform an existing political party from within and what he accomplished was nothing short of a miracle. Jokes about politicians have been a part of society since the beginning of time, "they are all crooks" or "they are all a bunch of liars" or "My favorite mythical creature? The honest politician."
Well Bernie’s run to win the primary truly revealed it isn't a joke and the corruption is far worse than we had ever imagined. Now that we know the system is corrupt to the core where do we go from here? I personally believe our efforts and resources should be used toward promoting and supporting 3rd party candidates, those that we know are not part of the current corruption.
I believe an overwhelming majority of progressives, me included, believed Elizabeth Warren was a real, pure progressive in the same mold as Bernie Sanders. Well, we certainly found out that was not the case. My point, in trying to reform the party from within a politician that you believe is your "friend" may very likely be revealed to be your enemy. At the very beginning of the primary I was one of several practically begging Warren to enter the race.
It is time for the 2 corrupt parties to be dismantled, the power grip they have on our political system must be destroyed if we are ever going to breath true democracy in this country.
I believe if every citizen was informed, took the necessary time to learn about each candidate and here is a very important element, did not watch mainstream media, instead received their political news from reputable web or print based sources I guarantee half of our elected officials would be 3rd party candidates.
Comments
What Direction for Bernie Supporters.
I agree . . .
I think we have a lot of work to do and that we need to recruit write-in candidates. So what if the system has made it hard. We publish state by state flyers with recommended candidates and specific instructions.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Oregon is (was) a good model
Soon after I was old enough to vote I left Oregon, so I have not been involved with politics there for 43 years. But, back in the day the state published an election booklet that contained candidate statements that were very helpful in a way you have suggested. Someone from there (as I will soon be again) could elaborate on this.
For maximum probability of success, Oregon might be a place to apply pressure . . . maybe?
The League of Women Voters still does that
It's probably why they've been pushed out of the official process. And why a lot of candidates refuse to answer their questions now.
Still is.
The voters pamphlet is published by the Oregon Secretary of State.It contains statements from candidates,endorsements of candidates,summaries of ballot measures,and pro/con statements regarding ballot measures.
Solidarity
Principled peaceful opposition at the DNC
I hope Bernie delegates at the DNC next week will make themselves heard and say loud and clear that a lot of Democrats and a big majority of independents find Hillary an unacceptable choice.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
DemExit an Integral part of this?
If DemExit was an integral part of this peaceful opposition . . . that would go a long way toward making our intentions clear and compelling.
Protests inside the hall
At the RNC there were a bunch of street protests, including 100 naked women(!), and no TV coverage at all. But the few Code Pink protesters inside the hall got on TV, including Medea Benjamin during Trump's acceptance speech. Not to mention the Alaska delegation, that held up the voting because they didn't agree with the rule that gave all their votes to Trump.
The Bernie delegates are perfectly positioned to make their protests count - INSIDE the hall. They just have to abide by the rules so they don't lose their credentials.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
The Bernie delegates are
What do they need those for, once they're inside? It's not like their votes will matter.
Without credentials, they can get thrown out
Without credentials, they can get thrown out, like Medea Benjamin last night at the RNC. Who knows how she got in?
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
It's like effin elementary school
learn to obey directives from adults (hah!) other than your parents. As if they had rules... [back in the 50's-60's, mothers had rules. Daddies had belts for egregious misbehavior]
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I will respectfully submit...
That the only recourse is a full frontal assault on the courts, preferably the SCOTUS.
Why?
Because no matter what we do in the streets (willing the acquiescense of the Federally coordinated militarized police), nothing done in the streets can overcome elections that are obviously fraudulent to the point of meaninglessness (at least for key decision points in which the Deep State has a concern )
Do I believe the SCOTUS (and certainly other courts) are above corruption? It is to laugh. But if there are enough honest judges left - and we all know there are some - then cases will be heard, and if the level of the court is high enough - especially the SCOTUS - then the word will get out. The SCOTUS is amazingly not immune to Vox Populi, as we've seen recently - at least in areas where the Deep State does not have a deep concern - e.g. social issues.
With the demise of the ability to honestly hold elections, our options are becoming extremely slim. Someone MUST challenge the fraud/sham election system as an assault on the Constitution itself, soon, or the acquiescence with this miscarriage of democracy in 2016 will be the basis of the final burial of our republic. The other temporal imperative is that if we don't respond to the exigent nature of the environmental challenge before us, NOW, not much else will matter anyway.
It's a hail Mary approach, but it has to be an approach that the media cannot ignore - and that's really the only thing that matters, and that is the ability to pierce through the engineered obscuring vail of the corporate media. The odds are slim, but the approach requires neither covert organization or blood on the streets. It requires largely a relatively small influx of money (probably a fraction of what we all gave to Bernie in the ridiculous believe that the Deep State would actually allow him to be elected) to support a dedicated team of lawyers that will assault every imaginable court - including the SCOTUS and World Court to try and pry open the lid on the teaming can of snakes that are in control.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
Rules of Engagement
The rules of engagement are very well defined. When I get frustrated I have a go-to (now assistant DA) to consult about details. Perhaps the most important point is to note that while any one legal decision my have far reaching effect the legal decision itself is usually the result of a well defined point of contention. Reading legal opinions tends to give me headaches, and I would rather untangle a Gordian Knot blindfolded, using only one hand with three fingers superglued together.
Yes, very well defined, and that's a good thing...
As opposed to fighting election fraud via Electronic Voting Machines, and political corruption via legalized bribery, which is like boxing a chimera. But are not laws simply legal documents, requiring the same Gordian Knot untying?
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
So very true, that is!
Except for "simply" this is true of far too many. This is why I focus my attention on the DA side of the courtroom. The best, IMO, approach is to get good people in those positions. They can have a most dramatic influence on police behavior. My opinion is grounded in my experience, so as always, your mileage may vary.
For the rest of the day I am off to Lincoln to collect some recovered items we lost two weeks ago, so TTFN.
Those sure are some straws
Those sure are some straws you're grasping at there.
The Supreme Court is ultimately an interpretive body, not an executive body. The justices are only flesh and blood like the rest of us and have no power to make their rulings stick except what is given to them by the government's obedience. And if you believe as I do that the rule of law is over in America, and that Comey's "Clinton is clearly guilty as hell, but we can't see any reason to indict her" act definitively proves it, then there is no reason to believe that the government will obey the Supreme Court except at its convenience, to maintain the sham of a functioning representative government of laws.
I'm curious, too, how you propose to bring this matter before the Court? Remember, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise, Democratic Party internal business is private in the eyes of the law, and choosing whom voters and electors may vote for and how those votes are counted is a matter for the states. The SC will just kick this down to the District courts, who will tell you it's outside their jurisdiction - or maybe the SC will save you a step by telling you this themselves. And then the state courts will tell you what I just said about Party business.
There is no way around the violence which must occur if there is to be any kind of revolution. The first step is to realize that the end of the rule of law means that you no longer have any moral duty as a citizen to follow the government's laws, the second step is to stop following them, and the third step is to decide how you will respond to the police when they come to punish you - whether you would rather be a martyr, a political prisoner, or a Good German.
I see, so you suggest we go directly to blood in the streets.
Right. Ignore the remaining partially functioning element of the Republic, and start killing people. I see. Good suggestion. Well, unless you care about the people whose blood it is that might be spilled, and it won't be that of The Deep State, of that I assure you.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
Just because some thoughts might be uncomfortable or even
terrible to contemplate doesn't take away from their potential validity.
If all else fails and peaceful change is indeed made impossible..
Well, you know the rest.
I don't think it is an unrealistic assumption to make that we may indeed be headed for an "American Spring" and anyone that thinks that such an action will not result in our blood being spilled in the streets is fooling themselves.
This time it won't just be 4 dead in Ohio...
TPTB are not gonna give up without cracking a few heads at the minimum.
And in case you didn't notice, it has already started flowing, except now it is going both ways in that police are being targeted too, which will only further escalate and enhance the violence.
Not that I am advocating for such an approach, but to say that it is unlikely or impossible is just not an accurate interpretation of the situation that we are currently in.
immediately during the first sniper attack on police I stated with absolute conviction that that was just an opening salvo.
How many more copycats have we had now?
I fully expect this trend to not only continue but escalate as we get closer and closer to November, and beyond.
We are at a crux as a nation and anyone that thinks that what happened in Egypt, or even Turkey, can't happen here is just engaging in undue optimism at best in my opinion.
These are dark and vexing times.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Do you honestly believe that violence...
will slow the descent into full-bore police-state fascism? Do we on the other side have armored assault vehicles, chemical weapons, internet surveillance, under-cover operatives and rubber-bullet Gatling guns? You would anticipate assaulting the Deep State with… what? Is it I who am being naive to say that we should first exhaust the remaining functionality of our Republic before attempting to tear down the entire edifice? In case you hadn't noticed, the "Arab Springs" have not turned out as a phalanx of functioning free republics… a bit to the contrary.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
You would anticipate
Existential crisis.
Did I stutter? Yes, you are the naive one here. If you need it spelled out, there you go.
As I have repeatedly said, violence is necessary for revolution in America and we will eventually descend into it because we will have no other choice. There is no secret workaround. It is the climate change of American politics: uncaring, inevitable, and deadly. The smart thing to do would be to try to prepare for it, maybe get out in front of it.
I wasn't talking to you.
But since you replied, do you agent provocateur much? To quote you:
And you say I am naive. What you're advocating (or pretending to advocate) is a second American Civil War. This time between an unarmed populace, and a heavily militarized effectively nationalized police force. The first Civil War was between two roughly equivalent military forces, and millions died when the population of the country was scarcely 10% of its current size.
What could possibly go wrong with your scenario?
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
I am not advocating. I am
I am not advocating. I am foretelling.
The violence is coming. Whether it will take the form of civil war, or brutal authoritarian control, or simply the lives of black, brown, and poor people mattering less and less, and how it will be resolved, and what kind of society we will have afterward, I cannot say.
But again, the smart thing would be to expect it and direct it. Organize ahead of time. Build bridges across the old dividing lines. Gain influence over institutions that can weather the coming violence; if we could get control of our own state governments, that would be huge. Have plans in place so we know what we're going to do when the police and military come: stand and fight? Run away? Surrender?
But you, it seems, would rather plunk your head in the sand, have no organization, no plans, no intended outcome, and to react in the moment when the violence comes too close to ignore. Well, your choice. But don't say you were never warned.
Again, you are making the assumption that "I" think this.
What I am saying is regardless of what I think, the reality is that this is whats happening?
Would I rather see this change come about in a democratic process?
OF COURSE!!!!! As Cenk would say...
But what I want and what is happening are two entirely different things and you seem to take the fact that I am pointing it out as some kind of support for it.
An observation is not an endorsement.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Sorry, no, I didn't mean to imply advocacy on your part...
of violence. Unlike CloudyBaby up there, who clearly does.
I am implying however that violent (read armed) revolution is effectively impossible, if for no other reason than the enormous centrally organized force that metro police forces have metamorphosed into over the last decades. And there are many other reasons - I allude to a few above.
IMHO, violent revolution will not happen. And that is a good thing, most likely, as the consequences would be horrible in the extreme.
I also believe that it is counter productive to even contemplate that as an eventuality, as it tends to turn the mind away from softer, subtler approaches to the problem in the near term - as evidenced by CloudyBaby's discourse.
The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington
People complain about the Green Party
being poorly organized. I think it is an opportunity for Bernie folks to come in and help organize and focus the party.
So where do we go...I think Green!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Same here
Where I work, if you complain about how something is being done, guess who goes on the team to fix the problem?
Ghostbusters?
The only short-term option is to grow-up the Green party. There will be pushback, likely, I am now Green, Demexited on the 12th, but I think that bringing in Sanders' organizing units may cause more than one tantrum.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
For this election, I'll be going Green.
Stein for President, and Wilson for Senate (I wouldn't vote for Schumer for sewer cleaner. No wait, I would vote for him to be the sewer cleaner - but not to be senator).
After this election, I don't know what I am going to do. But I do know that I am done with the Democrats.
I have not yet looked out from NY-23, noone here.
But there is a Green to take down Schumer? I am so there. Al d'Amato was more responsive to NYers than Chuckie.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I live in the 23rd too
I don't think there is a Green candidate.
"Do nothing that is of no use
"Do nothing that is of no use."
-- Miyamoto Musashi
My Vote Is Green
Jill Stein will get my vote if and when Bernie pulls the plug. His decision is the only thing that awaits final disposition. I have already sent in a donation to the Green Party in preparation should Bernie opt out of further candidacy..
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.