It's Finally Happening

Right now, the focus of many is on the upcoming party conventions. In such an environment, important things can sometimes escape notice. One such is what I present here.

The night before he was assassinated, Martin Luther King delivered his Mountaintop speech. Buried deeply within it -and the likely cause of the order to kill him being issued- was an economic strategy he proposed to his people:

Now the other thing we'll have to do is this: always anchor our external direct action with the power of economic withdrawal. Now we are poor people, individually we are poor when you compare us with white society in America. We are poor. Never stop and forget that collectively, that means all of us together, collectively we are richer than all the nations in the world, with the exception of nine. Did you ever think about that? After you leave the United States, Soviet Russia, Great Britain, West Germany, France, and I could name the others, the American Negro collectively is richer than most nations of the world. We have an annual income of more than thirty billion dollars a year, which is more than all of the exports of the United States and more than the national budget of Canada. Did you know that? That's power right there, if we know how to pool it. (Yeah) [Applause]

And so, as a result of this, we are asking you tonight (Amen) to go out and tell your neighbors not to buy Coca-Cola in Memphis. (Yeah) [Applause] Go by and tell them not to buy Sealtest milk. (Yeah)[Applause] Tell them not to buy–what is the other bread?–Wonder Bread. [Applause] And what is the other bread company, Jesse? Tell them not to buy Hart's bread. [Applause] As Jesse Jackson has said, up to now only the garbage men have been feeling pain. Now we must kind of redistribute that pain. [Applause] We are choosing these companies because they haven't been fair in their hiring policies, and we are choosing them because they can begin the process of saying they are going to support the needs and the rights of these men who are on strike. And then they can move on downtown and tell Mayor Loeb to do what is right. (That's right, Speak) [Applause]

Now not only that, we've got to strengthen black institutions. (That's right, Yeah) I call upon you to take your money out of the banks downtown and deposit your money in Tri-State Bank. (Yeah) [Applause] We want a "bank-in" movement in Memphis. (Yes) Go by the savings and loan association. I'm not asking you something that we don't do ourselves in SCLC. Judge Hooks and others will tell you that we have an account here in the savings and loan association from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. We are telling you to follow what we're doing, put your money there. [Applause] You have six or seven black insurance companies here in the city of Memphis. Take out your insurance there. We want to have an "insurance-in." [Applause] Now these are some practical things that we can do. We begin the process of building a greater economic base, and at the same time, we are putting pressure where it really hurts. (There you go) And I ask you to follow through here. [Applause]

From "I Have Been To The Mountaintop"

This strategy was lost the next day with the assassination. Yet the details of this speech remain essentially valid. Collectively, Black people still constitute a large economic block, enhanced by the major increase in earnings Black sports and media stars can now command. This power has largely gone unwielded.

I happened across this article while looking up something else:

A nearly century-old black-owned bank in Atlanta has seen a flash flood of new customers after a celebrity rapper called for African-Americans to pair their protests with their dollars.

Atlanta’s Citizen’s Trust reportedly received thousands of new accounts and inquiries since Atlanta rapper Michael Render, better known as Killer Mike, angrily reacted to the recent police shooting deaths of two black men in Minnesota and Louisiana by calling during a radio interview for African-Americans to move their money to black-owned banks.

[snip]

According to various news accounts on television and online, the Atlanta bank got more than 8,000 new deposit accounts in less than a week.

This is the only way people are going to get the attention of the money piranhas who exploit us and plunder our assets for their own personal gain. Race doesn't matter, gender doesn't matter, Orientation doesn't matter. But money does matter to these people, who at the very least are agents of the 1% if not members, and when money talks, they listen. If you want something, move your money. THEN maybe you might be willing to talk once they act on your behalf.

It's been a long time coming. Too long.

edited for spelling error

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elenacarlena's picture

but also spend our money with people who stand with us. We can, for example, stop buying most crap made in China if we don't like so many jobs being outsourced there. We can refuse to buy fast food if workers aren't making $15. Don't buy Koch-made products. And so on.

Nobody will vote with their purses perfectly, but we can vote.

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WindDancer13's picture

I had thought of a boycott on Coca Cola products when they announced that due to Vermont's new GMO law that they would pull some of their products out of the state. The message here is they would rather lose money in the market than add a simple sentence to their label. It also tells us that some of CC's products are being made with GMOs.

While the 1% may have all the wealth, the 99% still wields a lot of economic power, probably more than anyone realizes. Other than the basics, putting other buying on hold could get their attention. There is a caveat though, with decreased consumer spending, there could be job losses. On the other hand, many US Americans can be quite creative about finding ways to make money that don't involve supporting the 1%.

As banks do not pay interest on checking accounts any more and just a minuscule amount on savings, the money is probably safer in a pillow case under our mattress right now.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Daenerys's picture

Credit unions still pay interest on checking, even if it's usually about .10%. I have internet banking and e-checking, and the interest rate on my checking account right now is actually .25%. (They failed to report my past loans to the credit bureaus apparently, but that's another rant for another day and it's being looked into.)

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This shit is bananas.

WindDancer13's picture

the last time I looked, there were restrictions to joining one, so I didn't think I should add it as an option. You are quite right that they would be a good choice...for those who can access them. The very poor already don't use banks. hence, the proliferation of pay-day loan sharks and check cashing thieves.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

elenacarlena's picture

I thought all universities and colleges did. So you might check your alma mater.

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Alligator Ed's picture

Without naming names, though those interested are free to research this, my school spawned Timothy "the Tool" Geithner, Ex-SecTreas Paulsen, Sen. Rob Portman, and ex officio the head of the IMF. There are also a couple of corpoDems occupying elective office, amongst the alumni. And one last "confession", my school also spawned ex-felon Dinesh D'Souza. I don't wish to denigrate the vast majority of graduates, almost of whom "have turned out well" but the neoliberal administration is pro-corporatist.

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WindDancer13's picture

claim to fame as yours, but while I was still in attendance there, it was named the Number 1 Party School by Playboy magazine. = )

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

jwa13's picture

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

WindDancer13's picture

but that would be mean. = )

I graduated in 85 and 89 from San Diego State University.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Alligator Ed's picture

She was not a party girl. But I am extremely proud of her--go Aztecs!

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WindDancer13's picture

I had three kids to raise as a single parent and had to work multiple jobs so didn't have time for partying. Although SDSU doesn't have the "prestigious" reputation of the universities in the UC system, I found the education and most of the professors there to be excellent.

Congrats to your daughter!

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

it serves the students and employees, past and present, who are the shareowners. the university would have no control or authority over the CU.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

elenacarlena's picture

name and have branches on campus.

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WaterLily's picture

Big Green's Big Embarrassment. (Used to live near there).

I may be wrong, but I thought there was a recent rules change that allowed anyone to join a credit union? Maybe this is a state-by-state thing?

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Roy Blakeley's picture

but credit unions define their "fields of membership." I have belonged to two credit unions. One was associated with a medical institution, but my current credit union seems to serve anyone in the area that wants to join. I think it would be worthwhile for people to have a look at credit unions in their area to see if they are eligible to join. I think that in many cases their fields of membership are large and open these days.

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WindDancer13's picture

I wasn't thinking about myself but rather the many, many people who do not have the option. There are still numerous people who do not or cannot go to college.

My alma mater does have a credit union and it is open to all residents of five California counties as well as students, alumni and employees, but that still leaves a huge portion of people not covered by that particular credit union, and while I am sure there are other CUs that will cover more people, it will still not be an option for many.

This thread, however, did make me go look at the practices of my current bank. Ouch! I may have to take advantage of alumni status after all.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

elenacarlena's picture

common bond, but that can be that everyone lives in the same town. They've tried to tighten the rules. Why? Banks! Banks don't like the competition. Poor banks, very sad. See http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-credit-union-regulator-passes-new-rules-...

Still, so far it looks like most people can probably find a credit union that will accept them. Or talk to a few, find out what group they need to join to have access to a CU.

Note: The membership fee they talk about (typically $10-25), it remains in your account, you can have it back if you ever decide to leave.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

I had thought about credit unions but the last time I looked, there were restrictions to joining one, so I didn't think I should add it as an option.

When a credit union is first started, its members need to have one other thing in common; and you generally need to have that in common in order to join it later. However, this can be so widely construed as to make it almost meaningless, especially once credit union mergers became permitted. Example: Ent Federal Credit Union in Colorado Springs, Colorado used to be for active-duty Air Force personnel and their families only. But EFCU has merged so many other local CUs into itself that today, all you need is an address in Colorado's Fourth Judicial District to join it. Today, virtually all Americans have the option of joining a credit union -- and if they can, they should!

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

WindDancer13's picture

McDonald's workers? I Googled it and apparently not. If they live outside of the specified area or do not fit into some other group, then it does not become a choice for them. That was what I was trying to get at...the "if they can" aspect. Hopefully, CUs will continue to grow their membership qualifications, but until then...

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Try the credit union for federal employees and the credit union for state employees. Sometimes they are open to anyone. If that doesn't work I might try geography next. There might be a credit union open to anyone living in your county. Or show up at the largest credit union in your area. If they can't take you ask a manager if s/he can recommend one that will.

Is is rare to find a person who can't meet the requirements for at least one credit union.

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retroactive -- if you ever were a state employee, for example.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

elenacarlena's picture

could do so, if I am understanding correctly what I read about CUs. Employees of the same employer certainly qualify as a common bond. See http://www.mycreditunion.gov/about-credit-unions/pages/how-to-join-a-cre... for more ideas on finding a join-able CU.

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elenacarlena's picture

find a McD's CU, but several for particular companies. Also see this one, L&N. They have a fairly open community charter for everyone in the Louisville area and Southeastern KY and Northern KY, 18 KY counties in all, plus four counties in IN plus Hamilton County, OH. Also throughout the state and TN for employees of several businesses that don't have to be limited to geographic area. That's a very wide spread! And that's just one of many CUs in KY that came up in my search.

Also, keep in mind it's not the fault of the CUs that they can't include everyone. That's the fault of the banks fighting the competition.

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CUNA, the Credit Union National Association.

They maintain a consumers' website that includes basic education about Credit Unions as well as a "credit union finder".

Something worth knowing is that most of the country's credit unions participate in a shared ATM network service. Between that and the intertubes, you can do 90% of your banking through a credit union 4000 miles away -- eg. an alma mater CU. (Often, they also operate "shared" branches -- so if the distance is more on the order of 10 miles, there's a good chance you could do your day-to-day banking a closer branch of a different CU.)

Moreover, the membership qualifications, as noted by others, can be EXTREMELY broad. For college-affiliated CUs, you generally needn't have graduated, or even have ever been in a degree program. The University of Wisconsin Credit Union, for example, also accepts "current and former students" of Madison Area Technical College -- ie., the local 2-year state college. To qualify, all you'd have to do is sign up for a low-credit online continuing education course at MATC -- Introduction to Excel, or whatever. And there's a further membership-broadener: "In the household of or immediate family of an eligible person". That's basically a viral qualification. My guess is that almost every citizen of Wisconsin is eligible to join UWCU, and if you actually traced out the "degrees of eligibility separation", you'd find that 10 to 20% of the US population is eligible to join UWCU: Anyone who is the child/parent/sibling/spouse of anyone who has ever attended any UW-System campus (there are 2-dozen around the state), Edgewood College, or MATC; plus anyone who is the child/parent/sibling of anyone who lives within 5 miles of a UWCU office; and, by the viral principle, anybody who is the child/parent/sibling/spouse of anybody who is the child/parent/sibling/spouse of anybody who is the child/parent/sibling/spouse of anybody who meets those above-mentioned qualification; etc, ad infinitum. Hell, there are probably millions of people in China and India who qualify.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

MsGrin's picture

I think it was just that I open a savings account when I opened my checking.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Alphalop's picture

But you can usually find a credit union somewhere in your town that you can qualify for an account at.

When I first relocated to Florida I went to one and sat down with a banker and told him the truth, "I do not want to place my money in shady corporate banks, I would prefer to support credit unions. Please tell me what I need to do to qualify."

They found an "in" for me. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

enhydra lutris's picture

If you then check the requirements for membership of each one, you will probably find that you qualify to join more than one. I know of one that simply requires folks to live in the community it is sited in.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Many restrictions have been lifted by credit unions. Mine, for example, used to be for educators, but it is now open to the public at larrge.

I would suggest you research the credit unions that appeal to you on a range of elements, such as interest rate and other benefits and assume they are open to the public unless they explicitly state otherwise. Make sure they are NCUA, which guarantees deposits up to $250,000 - equivalent to the FDIC for banks.

Most credit unions are small and locally owned - you might even find a cooperative, in which you would be an owner.

But then again, a fat pillow makes for good sleep :).

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WindDancer13's picture

my original statements and those that followed were never about me. I was talking about people who do not have the same options as many of us.

Try it with a pillow stuffed with nickels and dimes. = )

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

....the banks got off scot-free and we paid for it. the credit union i joined is open to anyone who is a resident of our county.

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Nilap Haras's picture

left too big to fail many years ago for a local FCU which has attracted enough new members to buy land, build and own the buildings for three new sites so they now have four locations. Not too sure if they are affiliated with other FCU's of the same name - but - FCU baby, every day and all the way. Oh, and we also are associated with the Navy FCU.

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“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.” - Edward Snowden 2016

elenacarlena's picture

Kinda makes me wish I had a smartphone.

https://www.buycott.com/

For those of us less technologically advanced, the biggest, most up to date list seems to be... at TOP! From a post by Rachel Colyer in 2014, and she seems to have accessed the info from the Buycott app. Or she recommends just going to Koch Bros., Invista, and Georgia Pacific Web sites to see all the products.

I did a fair amount of googling, and this was the most recent and most comprehensive article. Many sites on the subject seem to have been effed with, their lists removed! Maybe the size of Over There is good for something.

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WindDancer13's picture

But thanks for the app info. I bookmarked it in case I ever get a smartphone that likes me. I bought one that works off of WiFi only (no contract for calls or Internet use), but like some electronic stuff including my regular Lifeline phone, it doesn't like my touch. Pffftttt. Basically, I use the smartphone to read books, so it is not a total loss (other than some annoying page turning issues--the touch thing again).

If you have a Kroger near you, take a look for the Coolpad smartphone. They are often for sale for $15 or less. However, check the packaging to make sure it can run used on WiFi without a contract in case they have changed it. I think Kroger has a couple of other inexpensive phones that may also use WiFi connections.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Alphalop's picture

you can get a kindle fire pretty cheaply anymore.

$50 for the 8 gig or 20 bucks more for the 16 gig.

For that price I might have to pick one up just to have a smaller more portable one to use for my Remote in the living room (Yeah, they got an app for that. Wink )

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

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Alphalop's picture

Here is an article that is a little bit dated but may help with your search. It is about locating Green Friendly device manufacturers.

I don't know if I could boycott Amazon. I love my Kindle and the unlimited books program they have. I could never afford to read as much as I do if I had to buy every book I read and many are not even available at the library.

So many difficult choices. I have though successfully managed to eliminate EVERY Koch manufactured product that I am aware of from my shopping. Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Late Again's picture

The most comprehensive list I've ever come across is an actual book, the Blue Pages.

The Blue Pages, 2nd Edition: A Directory of Companies Rated by Their Politics and Practices href>

From the description:

The Blue Pages includes valuable information on companies' political contributions to each major party, employee benefits and labor practices, lawsuits and investigations, and community and charitable programs. It organizes companies alphabetically into 13 sectors, making it easy to find a particular product or service. A complete index allows even faster searching of companies and brands. This Zagat-style pocket reference makes a wonderful gift for activist friends and committed shoppers.

I got mine at a local independent bookstore and it's been invaluable. They cover nearly every company and industry you can think of: retail, hospitality, restaurants... very comprehensive.

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"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain

to the Blue Pages. I've been wishing such a book existed, but never dreamed it did!

Ordering from my local book store today!

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Steven D's picture

these days.

Even "organic foods" can be subject to GMO contamination.

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"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

riverlover's picture

I don't care.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

in the last 8000 years--even your pets. I bet many here remember when the vegetable aisle was ugly with malformed fruit. Food looks different, tastes different, and collectively less nutritious (some exceptions since they were bred specifically for nutrition). Products are bred for appearance and shipping.
That's not where I have my problem. It's doing 10,000, 20,000, 100,000 years of change in a few short decades. And not just one item but a sizeable chunk of our food supply. And not in one small area where it can be contained if need be and studied for effects, but spread globally.
I'm not really against GMO, just think they're hitting too damn hard, too damn fast, and damn any consequence for a few zeros in a few people's portfolio.
I just want an ability to decide, and for GMO folk to show more than a modicum of prudence. The food supply is not something to be haphazardly fucked with.

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There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

WindDancer13's picture

I really do not being treated like a guinea pig for their profit, and any possible issues that we may have now or in the future will have no recourse for correction or roll back. I am still trying to figure out why my milk lasts so much longer than it used to, but the labeling does not contain a hint.

Like you said, one of my main issues with GMOs is not being given a choice.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

thanatokephaloides's picture

I am still trying to figure out why my milk lasts so much longer than it used to,

My guess: "Enhanced" pasteurization (read: irradiating the milk while heating it as in traditional pasteurization).

Add just a touch of ionizing radiation, and you can essentially wipe out all microbial life in a container of milk.

There are small packages of milk prepared by irradiation which don't ever need refrigeration as long as they're in virginal state (never opened). And they can last for decades on a shelf.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

WindDancer13's picture

I remember when the first irradiated packaged meals came out and my mother served us some for lunch one day. I asked her if I would now glow in the dark.

I thought the extra (high) price I was paying for the brand that I like was because it is the kind with Omega 3. I have seen the unrefrigerated milk and have now spent years trying to decide if I should try it.

My father was a lab tech at a dairy farm, and I used to help him run tests so I was well aware of pasteurization, but that was a very long time ago...many decades before irradiation (which I recently--within the last five minutes--learned has been tested for over 40 years. Milk never lasted long enough in our household to ever go bad nor did it when I raised my kids, but on my own I was having to throw quite a bit away until I started using my current brand.

Thanks for the information. It is a relief to have that question answered. = )

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

thanatokephaloides's picture

Thanks for the information. It is a relief to have that question answered. = )

Caveat: As i said in my last Comment in this thread, it's just my best guess.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

WindDancer13's picture

I am too tired right now to look further at the moment. = )

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

WindDancer13's picture

It is not irradiated. The organic milk that I use (Horizon) has a prolonged life due to ultra high pasteurization. Standard milk is pasteurized at 161 degrees for 15 seconds, and UHT milk is pasteurized at 280 degrees for two seconds. The UHT process extends the shelf life dramatically. Standard milk lasts from 16-21 days, and UHT milk lasts up to 70 days.

It is much more expensive, and is in fact the one food splurge that I make, but if I factored in how much I save by not having to throw away milk that has gone bad, it almost balances out.

Thanks for making me go look. = )

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

thanatokephaloides's picture

(That learned something new today, that is!)

So if I want my milk to last 70 days, and it isn't Horizon, I need a large-capacity pressure cooker.....

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

WindDancer13's picture

There are other brands thought. LOL I go with Horizon because in my area, it is highly available and because it also has a version with Omega 3 added (trying to avoid brain freeze...or at least more of it)..

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

WindDancer13's picture

is not going to tell us that though. I saw the complaints from organic farmers being subjected to contamination. What happens if anything to the insects that assist with pollination and other dissemination? What if there is supposed to be a natural progression to the foods that are being modified and some steps were missed that would guarantee food safety (e.g., survivabilty and sufficiency) in the future?

I am sure that I am eating way more GMOs than I want to think about, but I only have about another 40 years or so left anyway. How about future generations? It kind of reminds me of some of last century's more unfortunate experiments that people thought were sound ideas at the time (e.g., drilling holes in people's heads).

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

like laudanum baby sitter so mom could do her 16 hour shift at the textile mill? Decades of cars spewing lead from gasoline that's now sitting in our soil and dust accumulating in your duct work so you get a constant dose? Nah, people are responsible, right?

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Alphalop's picture

it kinda makes the person that is against ALL GMO's look silly.

Some GMO's are a damn good idea, others are horrible.

Edible plants that can survive a drought like environment might become pretty frigging important in the coming years is all I gotta say.

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WindDancer13's picture

If GMOs are considered safe, then why is Big Ag so very, very dead set against labeling? Anti-scientific? How many times now has science been proven wrong? Exactly what does it hurt to label items that contain GMOs?

Denigrating people's desire to know what is in their food by saying it makes them "look silly" is like the 1% telling us that they know better than we do about what is good for us. Tax breaks for the rich creates jobs, right?

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If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

Alphalop's picture

in our food system is modified in one way or another, in some cases just in the last 50 years or even less.

I want to know HOW they are modified not just that they are.

That they are means nothing really so it means nothing to me.

The only real problem I have with it is it promotes the mindset that "all GMO's are bad, otherwise why would it be such a good thing that this is free of them?".

One thing I have definitely had reinforced this year is that the American Public by and large is not particularly good at nuance. Smile

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Alligator Ed's picture

hype. What plants are modified? What does the modification do? Are there beneficial aspects to modification? Are there detrimental aspects to modification? Are the modifications economically or environmentally useful--or harmful? Does GMO provide patented protections, just like all the me-too pharmaceuticals which are just a variation on the same theme without actually changing anything?

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WindDancer13's picture

through agricultural practices and through nature. However, that does not mean that all change is good, especially change that has not been sufficiently studied by people not beholden to the industry it is studying.

Yes, knowing HOW it is modified would be crucial in making choices, but the industry does not even want to let us know that it WAS modified. If an item was labeled, then a responsible shopper could make note of it and do the research necessary to determine whether or not to use it.

We already know that some foods are consistently identified as allergens. How do we know that GMOs won't introduce new allergens or exacerbate the ones that already occur naturally? Most foods contain some toxins. How do we know if GMOs don't increase or have the potential over time to increase the strength of those toxins? Even a minute increase in toxicity that doesn't affect humans could affect insects that are needed to balance our ecology. Could GMOs potentially create an antibiotic resistance? Are GMO foods nutritionally equivalent to non-GMO foods?

From what I understand there is very little regulation, standardization or protocols for testing GMOs. It
sounds like one big experiment with human beings as guinea pigs to me. While whoever can afford it can choose to only buy organic foods, there is also the possibility of contamination between crops. I do not even want to think of what the logistics would be to go out to dinner.

Lack of information and industry stonewalling is not helping build confidence regarding GMOs. Marketing hype is not sufficient, especially when it comes from firms like Monsanto.

The problem with nuance is that it rarely aids communication when people do not share similar thinking patterns as established in a work setting (stress in psychology, geography or mechanical engineering mean different things), cultural background or some other kind of shared familiarity. Look how often people have to question whether or not something is sarcasm or snark online.

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If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

elenacarlena's picture

I can see it now, different labels: "GMO with extra pesticides" "GMO to be pesticide resistant, so it was sprayed with extra pesticides" "GMO to add growth hormones," etc. They already say the whole labeling idea is too expensive. And what about products with several GMO ingredients, each grown for a different purpose?

No, I think one GMO label would be the best we can do, with more information at a Web site and/or a number you could call and/or a directory you could order for more specifics.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Edible plants that can survive a drought like environment might become pretty frigging important in the coming years is all I gotta say.

So long as those plants are in the public domain, I could see that.

The real and proven danger of GMOs isn't biological. It's capitalistic. It's "no food to be grown that we don't own". It's a tiny handful of corporate supergiants like Monsanto and Bayer controlling every seed that anyone can plant in the ground. It's farmers, who find their crops are contaminated with GMO pollution, then end up owing these same companies for what those companies did to them.

The biological objections to GMO foodstuffs are still theoretical and subject to controversy. The objections I made in the above paragraph are proven -- they are known to exist for a certainty. And that's the real reason why Big Ag is so bound and determined that GMOs not be labeled; they don't want anybody knowing just how far in thrall they really are to these corporations just because they must eat. Were the common peasants to truly and completely understand that, we'd pass the tipping point of violent revolution in a flash, with the corporate officers of those companies being the first necks the new Terror would send to the guillotines. Compared with this, the theoretical health issues -- not yet demonstrated at all -- are quite small beer indeed.

Diablo

note: I have no desire of any such catastrophe occurring in this country or elsewhere. But anyone who isn't fearful of just this sort of thing happening isn't paying attention.

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"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

(Note the date)
http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/monsantoatms-monopoly-challenged-in...

Monsanto's Monopoly Challenged in Munich

Team Treehugger
Living / Green Food
April 30, 2007

[This is a guest-post by Hope Shand of the ETC Group. -Ed.]

Patents, globalization and social injustice are the stuff of public protest across the world. This week, however, a drawn-out battle against corporate monopoly will come to a head — not in the streets — but in an arcane technical hearing at the European Patent Office. ...
... Patents, exclusive legal monopolies granted by governments, are a
favorite tool of big business to exercise power over the little guy.
Giant pharmaceutical firms have most notoriously used patents to
price anti-HIV drugs out of the reach of poor people in the global
South. Less familiar are biotech battles in the agricultural sector,
where multinational seed companies are using patents to deny farmers
— or entire nations — the right to use and sell seeds from patent-
protected crops."Patents, we are told, are designed to promote innovation. Instead,
they are allowing giant seed companies to secure exclusive monopolies
that undermine the economic security of farming communities and
jeopardize access to seeds — the first link in the food chain. And
lest we forget: Whoever controls the seeds controls the food supply.

Instead of fostering agricultural research, breathtakingly broad
patents are shutting down competition and stifling research. Perhaps
no patent symbolizes the brokenness of the patent system more than
Monsanto's European patent on all genetically engineered soybean
varieties and seeds — European Patent No. 301,749. Critics call it a
"species-wide" patent because its claims extend to all biotech
soybean seeds—— irrespective of the genes used or the genetic
engineering technique employed — unprecedented in its broad scope. ...

... Monsanto's legal defense of its patent may not be surprising, but it
is hugely hypocritical. Before Monsanto acquired the patent in 1996 —
the company vigorously opposed the patent — which was then owned by
US-based biotech company, Agracetus. In 1994 Monsanto submitted an
exhaustive, 292-page opposition statement to the EPO that shredded
the technical merits of Agracetus's soybean patent. Monsanto's
lawyers wrote that the soybean patent should be "revoked in its
entirety," is "not novel," "lacks an inventive step," and "sufficient
disclosure [of scientific method] is woefully lacking." But after
Monsanto acquired Agracetus in April 1996, Monsanto withdrew its
challenge, reversed its position and announced that it would defend
its newly acquired patent! ...

... In 2003 — more than nine years after the patent was first awarded and
legally challenged — an EPO patent tribunal heard legal arguments
against the notorious patent. Opponents were shocked when EPO upheld
Monsanto's monopoly in 2003. Today, nearly two-thirds of the patent's
20-year term has expired. On 3 May 2007 EPO's appeal tribunal will
have one last chance to revoke Monsanto's unjust monopoly on one of
the world's major food crops. Failure to do so, after 13 years of
bureaucratic delays, will simply confirm that corporations can use
unjust patents to monopolize markets, destroy competition and
jeopardize worldwide struggles for food sovereignty.

Edited to add that there is nothing 'scientific' about allowing polluting industry control over the food supply to insist that people must have no choice but to buy and consume their products, because corporate profits come before anything else, including such concepts as those of human rights and democracy.

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A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

thanatokephaloides's picture

And lest we forget: Whoever controls the seeds controls the food supply.

This!

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"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

WaterLily's picture

Highly ironic ...

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WindDancer13's picture

write the TPP?

Why did the US secretly send letters to the Vatican urging them to promote GMOs? US to Vatican: Genetically Modified Food Is a "Moral Imperative" Global Corporatism?

PS. Thanks for the reminder! Sometimes, I get distracted and forget the main point, but you covered it well.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

are in themselves dangerous. The same argument I advance for the existence of gods, ghosts, goblins, gnomes, and gremlins. At the same time there is no proof that all our fiddling and futzing 500 or 1000 years down the road won't turn our biota into a gray mass of anaerobes.

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Alphalop's picture

Particularly this one

So long as those plants are in the public domain, I could see that

The biggest concern I have with GMO's besides the evil crap that companies like Monsanto engage in is I do not like the idea of companies able to patent life forms. That is just creepy.

This is a convoluted issue, and I just wish we wouldn't use blanket statements to describe a science with such amazing potential for good as well as bad.

We absolutely should be cautious, but we don't want to scare people away from even considering the concept any more than we should have had blanket bans on new lines of stem cell research (That is an issue with strong personal consequences for me.)

If we say stuff that doesn't jive with the facts I feel it takes some of our credibility away when making legitimate arguments or raising accurate concerns.

The concept that all GMO's are bad is obviously false, so unfortunately we have to come up with a more nuanced way to address it IMO.

Mostly I am playing devils advocate here because it's not an issue that I am particularly passionate about.

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WindDancer13's picture

has gone on for centuries, but once you add corporations to the mix, ethics tends to get flushed. The whole issue is now has to do with balance sheets rather than the health and welfare of earth's inhabitants (not all human).

I think a better analogy (rather than stem cells) for this particular science/corporate endeavor is the development of nuclear power and energy.

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass

WaterLily's picture

This is what I would have said (less eloquently, no doubt) if you hadn't already done so.

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elenacarlena's picture

have them. I probably won't buy them because my budget is too tight right now to worry about it. But if people want to pay more for non-GMO foods I think they should have the right.

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elenacarlena's picture

Just a little wavering finger bobble, and there you go.

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Some GMOs are a good deal. But I can't help thinking most are created to solve problems of our own making. The drought resistant and salt resistant varieties especially. Take the high vitamin A rice that is so highly lauded, and completely ignore the notion it'd take 30 bowls a day to be effective. The problem isn't nutrition, it's economics. No room left to grow other crops since you have to sell to export. Not paid enough for labor to buy nutritious food. Same thing happened in what became Germany in the 1850s, I think it was. Two types of wheat, one made a white bread, other a hard dark. The people were forced to grow mostly the white for export and live on the hard dark with little nutritional value. People were constantly eating, and were still malnourished.
Designing an organism to counter our shortsightedness while still engaging in the practice causing the problem is not a solution. And in the haste to design these organisms the organisms themselves create problems, do we hurriedly design others to counter those problems?

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Alphalop's picture

I just feel that we need to take a cautious approach both ways.

Both in how we inform the public on what exactly GMO means and in how we introduce new products to the marketplace and ecosystem.

I am not suggestion we throw caution to the wind, just that we don't attach negative stigmata to what has the potential to be an amazingly useful branch of science as long as it is not abused. (The last part is unfortunately the hard part to insure due to the graft and corruption of those that are supposed to be protecting us.)

It's a very difficult situation.

(edited to replace a word so it actually looks like I understand English.) Smile

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just started at different parts of the book.

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Alphalop's picture

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Deja's picture

High fructose corn syrup (virtually all non diet sodas) = GMO. Corn starch (Kellogg's liars) = GMO. Sugar beets = GMO. Soy = GMO.

Basically, if it doesn't say it's NOT GMO, assume it is. Even then, we have to place blind trust in the label.

In case my comment confuses anyone, I'm responding to Wind Dancer's 1st paragraph above. I know it's not about banking like the rest of the conversation.

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Unfortunately for us, most of our goods are now manufactured in China, thanks to the Clinton trade treaties. This includes a lot of our food. Look at the country of origin label on cans, jars, even meat and seafood, and you'll see China pop up in the small print. The Chinese have the world's money, and the noveau riche there are buying up our food producing plants (Smithfield Foods), real estate (NYC condos and penthouses), farmland (their's is polluted), manufacturing plants, and prime assets (Waldorf Astoria) at an alarming rate. The children of Chinese millionaires are taking seats at our universities from local (in-state) students because colleges can charge at the higher out-of-state rate. Quietly, our country is being sold off to the highest bidder, just like our politicians.

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Putting ourselves in the streets to get our heads busted, arrested or killed is playing their game. Look at the militarized cops. They are way ready for that. Instead, stay out of reach and hit them in the purse where they hurt.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

thanatokephaloides's picture

Putting ourselves in the streets to get our heads busted, arrested or killed is playing their game.

I've said this for decades now!

Give rose

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Yup, and should organize now for massive boycotts of corporate participants now for when/if the corporate coup 'trade deals' are shoved through, because one provision I'd read of was that corporations would be able to shut people out of internet access they'd paid for, with no requirement for any explanation to be given the person banned. Anything they don't want people saying/doing sounds likely to me...

At any rate, such boycotts may be tricky enough, (with no country-of-origin labeling allowed but massive law-suits against the public of each country permitted each participating corporation deprived of the maximized profits they'd anticipated, among other things,) without being prepared, though I've no idea how to begin. But I recently spoke face-to-face with someone part of a group with a plan, and once I'm feeling a bit more lively, will have to find out details. Not that I buy much, lol.

Edited to add brackets to a sentence that really needs cosmetic surgery I'm too tired to perform, lol.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

edg's picture

-----------------------------------------------------------

All American Clothing Company

CNN's Made in America List

Products Made in America

The American List

Made in USA Challenge

Made in America Store

-----------------------------------------------------------

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Alligator Ed's picture

But many of these outfits might be owned by the OBC (Oppressive Billionaire Class). So, do your research. Example: McDonald's because most are not $15/hr minimum wage. Another example of a business never to utilize is Walmart. But I guess everyone here knows that.

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Is a two hour round trip plus store time.
Or Amazon, another paragon of business virtue.

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elenacarlena's picture

Or much money. I've talked w/ their employees, my neighbors, and they say they like it there, so apparently our local store treats people pretty decently. I sign every petition asking them to pay their employees more.

Also, if you don't shop Walmart, it's harder to find American-made goods on the spot.

Nobody's going to shop perfectly, it's too difficult. All we can do is what we can.

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this for a long time, I have not been in a McDonalds or Walmart for years and although I live in a urban area with plenty of other options that Walmart has not put out of business, yet Walmart and mcdonalds are always busy and there are a few within a few miles of each other so a lot of people don't know and or don't care. I always try to shop with local mom and pop business whenever possible. Goodwill has a great slogan, Reduse,Reuse and Recycle and I always try and do that as well.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

It's amazing what you can find at a yard sale, particularly in the more "upscale" neighborhoods. Just brought home a lightly-used bread machine and an old-fashioned Singer treadle sewing machine (just in case the shit hits the fan).

As a matter of fact, I collect sewing machines - the household is up to 8, of which 5 are mine (a Kenmore 30, a Singer 648, a two-tone green Elna Supermatic, a Brother semi-electronic, and the treadle job). The other half has a rebadged White ("Domestic"), another rebadged White ("Kenmore") with beautifully maintained table (both of the rebadges have bolt-on motors), and a 1955-transitional green Elna Supermatic that I let him have to play with. I know it's exactly 1955 because it's still one shade of Kermit green and has the fold-up knee control, but the Elnagraphic (the thingy you insert the discs into for fancy stitching) is popup, not screw-down - they made that change first.

At this point the only sewing machine that would tempt me to add it to the collection is a chain-stitch Willcox & Gibbs, and that because it was what I learned on when I was a wee little thing - belonged to my grandmother. (She also taught us granddaughters hand sewing, but her grandson - not so much. My brother had to pick that skill up for himself.)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

But I shop there some, because it is the only grocery/goods store open at 630 am, when I head to school. It is a source of cognitive dissonance.
Where I live, feed stores and donut shops open at dawn, but mercantiles don't.
Resale shops are the best, I am their loyal customer.

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riverlover's picture

go for them! My last big appliance purchase, a Frigidaire refrigerator (formerly an arm of GM) touted Made in America. The assembly plant had moved to Mexico.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

North America!

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CaptainPoptart's picture

I've been wanting to put up a piece like this but haven't been able to come up with a hook - yours is brilliant.

As dkmich said up thread there's no point in playing their game and getting our heads broken. Hit them where it hurts, in their profit margins.

Doesn't mean we can't also hit the streets as well, just peacefully.

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I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings

Pluto's Republic's picture

…that the American people hold in their hands. They can point this weapon at any enemy of the people, and and blow them out of business and end their influence. This weapon can instantly take down a political Party or wipe out a candidate. No government or agency inside the US can take this weapon away from the American people.

This essay is not about food or banks or American-made products or China. Those things are generally regulated to directly benefit the American people — as was the case throughout most of the the twentieth century, which saw the phenomenal rise of the US middle class.

This weapon is also identical to the most powerful weapon that the United States has. . Control through boycotting is the weapon of the people; control through sanctions is the weapon of the government. Their use is literally and effectively an act of war.

Sanctions (used by the US) are far more powerful than their military's explosive weapons. The past 15 years has proved that. When the US uses their military, their enemy becomes much stronger and more resourceful; the enemy's numbers grow exponentially and their influence and power spreads further and faster. The military weapons make the US weaker in the world and their uses makes the American people more insecure and economically vulnerable. Only the sanction weapon has ever resulted in outcomes that the US government wanted.

More on that another time, but it is something to be acutely aware of.

This essay is about the people's weapon against the agents and operatives that gain control over US government policies that diminish the lives of the people instead of benefitting them. The only reason to form a government, in the first place, is to benefit the people and their society. If that's not happening, you do not have a government, you have a sociopathic ruling class.

The people's weapon, strategic and coordinated boycotting and voting, is ready be used. It can instantly change everything. Fail Hillary and remove the ruling class. Impeach the next president if desired, or destroy their finances and end their power. The people can do this whenever they wish.

If, in November 2016, you are still a subject under the lash of the ruling class — then that's exactly what the American people want and deserve. They had the most powerful weapon to prevent it, but they were no longer a people with a meaningful future.

Of course, we must tell the people about their overwhelming power and strategically coordinate the targets for rapid results. But would the people rise to the occasion.

Or would they follow leaders who tell them it can be transformed from inside the system. It cannot. That is the tunnel to dystopia.

It's Finally Happening

Right now, the focus of many is on the upcoming party conventions. In such an environment, important things can sometimes escape notice. One such is what I present here.

…the economic strategy proposed by Martin Luther King…

— neoconned

They can't assassinate all of us.

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It's spreading and it's making the rulers of Israel insane. The laws being drawn up against it are all completely unconstitutional, (will someone tell that asswipe Cuomo?) and the movement is forcing pols to show their true colors.

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/05/ny_gov_cuomo_signing_unconstitutional_mc...

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