The Authority Trap

With the latest two recent shootings of unarmed black men I’m seeing a call for swift discipline of the officers involved, and improved training for new recruits (aka, A Good Start). I’m also seeing these trigger happy cops labeled as sociopaths. While they may or may not be psychopaths, I’m certain they have superiors who are in fact narcissists and sociopaths, and this is where the real problem lies not just in law enforcement, but in politics and organizing writ large and small.

As a business owner for more 30 years, it was a matter of professional survival that I learned to identify the workplace psychopath/narcissist, and I devoted a significant amount of time in the 90’s studying this phenomenon of human psychology.

I first wrote publicly about this back in 2003, when I published a guest blog piece for Digby at Hullabaloo that had gone viral at the time, “Are psychopaths running our government?”

Greater luminaries than I have declared this group to be Psychotic Personalities (Kurt Vonnegut recently caught flack for suggesting as much) but I wanted to know if there was any means by which to make a more serious medical diagnosis than "because they make me crazy." There is. Giles Whittell, writing for the Times On Line, interviewed Dr. Robert Hare, who, along with his colleague Dr Paul Babiak, will publish a book called Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go To Work later this year. Hare defined psychopathy for modern scientists with an exhaustive questionnaire called the Psychopathy Checklist (PCL-R). Introduced in 1980 it has become an internationally recognized tool for identifying psychopaths.

“[Dr.] Hare puts the average North American incidence of psychopathy at 1 per cent of the population, but the damage they inflict on society is out of all proportion to their numbers, not least because they gravitate to high-profile professions that offer the promise of control over others, such as law, politics, business management ... and journalism.”

So how does this tie to current events? The Thin Blue Line is a phenomenon that affects many organizations large and small. It’s one example of the Authority Trap, where respect is demanded and heretics are burned at the stake. Responsible authority understands its role in respecting and protecting those under its authority, while psychopaths flip this dynamic; those under their authority shall give all respect and deference to their authority, they cultivate and surround themselves with loyalists through the creation of a false Us and Enemies Out To Harm Us narrative, and those loyalists are expected to protect them through swift enforcement of (their imposed) group norms.

Psychopaths are expert at rising in organizations that offer the ability to have power over others. Without strong safeguards and gifted leaders, psychopathic rulers will cultivate a cult like following that will aggressively weed out anyone who might call them out, even challenge or criticize them in the slightest way, and with a ferocity that, by design, heavily discourages others who wish to remain on the privileged 'inside' from thinking of speaking up (The Snowden/Manning effect, aka the Thin Blue Line, aka The Authority Trap).

In any environment run by a psychopath, any criticism, no matter how targeted, legitimate, or relevant, is labeled a personal attack on them in particular and on their organization in the general (think Hillary or DWS), the critic labeled an “outsider,” unstable, crazy, and their loyal underlings, as a sign of loyalty and status among the ‘in’ group, will be expected to carry out the “cleansing” to “protect” the group from having even obvious and blatant transgressions or hypocrisy being pointed out. You can’t be for the police and call out police brutality. You can’t be for Democrats and call out Hillary for corruption and having sold out to corporate interests. You can’t be for Sanders and disagree on tactics.

This is a handy checklist that covers how the narcissist and psychopath work to silence dissent:

Gaslighting is a manipulative tactic that can be described in different variations of three words: “That didn’t happen,” “You imagined it,” and “Are you crazy?” Gaslighting is perhaps one of the most insidious manipulative tactics out there because it works to distort and erode your sense of reality; it eats away at your ability to trust yourself and inevitably disables you from feeling justified in calling out abuse and mistreatment.

And this is where Bernie is playing a different game. The difference between an organization run by a psychopath and one that isn’t is the difference between fear of the leader or hope for the future. Between falling in line or being empowered. Between wondering if you’re the crazy one not fitting into a world gone mad, or finding yourself among like-minded people who can disagree on tactics and still agree on goals without challenging your sanity.

So how do we fix ongoing police abuse by forces that view us as more the enemy than as the people they’ve sworn to protect and serve? How do we fix a government that’s only responsive to those who would view us as sheep to be sheered, leaders who view us as a nuisance rather than the people they to have sworn an oath to protect and serve? How do we deal with the Thin Blue lines in our everyday lives? What do we do when we see our leaders on all levels failing to follow their mandates of an inclusiveness and greater good, and instead find them working toward creating a protective bubble, perpetuating themselves as the aggrieved victims and creating mountains of drama, always the fault of their enemies, while ostracizing any and all criticism as an attack rather than an honest attempt to improve toward a common good?

We do what Bernie is doing. We speak up though we might not be heard. We speak up though it might cost us standing in our daily groups. We speak up though it might cost us friends and co-workers and facebook likes and re-tweets and the respect of peers. We speak up because we’re speaking for those who have even less voice than we do. We speak up because we have more courage than those who fear the psychopaths and bullies and those hangers-on who pretend to be working for a Potemkin greater good but just want to preserve standing in their small “insiders” coterie. We speak up because we’re willing to risk being mocked and belittled and have our words distorted, because we understand this is what psychopaths, and their enablers, do when their façade is challenged.

We speak up because if we have learned nothing from Bernie’s campaign, hell, his entire five decades long career, we have learned that if we do not speak up the psychopaths who seek to run our institutions, and their followers who alternately fear and deify them, will continue to abuse their misguided notion of what it means to have authority without the responsibility of empathy for those they wield power over.

So before anyone asks, “Why don’t the police police themselves?” ask yourself how you respond to the psychopaths and bullies in your workplace or daily organizations. Speaking up isn’t so easy when your comfortable standing among peers is at stake. Now look at what Bernie did and risked to speak up against the psychopaths and bullies. He was publicly boo'ed by his peers, and still he speaks up.

Bernie has never allowed himself to fall into the Authority Trap that seduces so many who find themselves with authority over others, and we shouldn’t either. We all have but one power and one power alone - all we can do is speak out until enough of us can ourselves come into positions of authority, and then once there guard against confusing your authority to protect and serve those less fortunate with the seductive call of control over those dirty doubting heretics who just don’t show enough respect. Resist the urge to show them whose boss, because we know that’s The Way of the Bern!

And that’s the Authority Trap. Be like Bernie - fight it from the outside first, and then don’t abuse it from the inside once there. He doesn't seek to control, he seeks to empower. You have it. Use it.

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Thumb's picture

I was just banned from the Kossacks_for_Sanders reddit for posting the following:

mahakali_overdrive: So I just thought, because I believe strongly in being as inclusive as possible and because I do NOT believe in top-down hierarchy...

And considering the original post's topic was specifically asking for user questions, and being concerned that the sub under MO's control had been taking a hard turn to repeating Kos like purity efforts with some aggressive bannings (an issue I resigned my moderator position over), I replied by asking:

How do you reconcile inclusiveness with the removal of non-disparaging disagreement? We're a diverse group here. Is this treated as a peer to peer issue and engaged with dialog seeking understanding over misconceptions in an effort to reach common ground for our shared cause, or are rules adjusted and fine tuned to maintain and/or further distance sub leadership from tactical disagreements in the name of a more narrowly defined 'unity' as we see befalling so many other subreddits or sites or groups we've all fled or been removed from?

Having that reply/question removed and my account banned wasn't the answer I was expecting, but I suppose it was an answer nonetheless. I didn't think it was possible to make Kos look tolerant by comparison, but there we are. And here I am.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

lunachickie's picture

My goodness...

the sub under MO's control had been taking a hard turn to repeating Kos like purity efforts with some aggressive bannings

I am sad to hear that, if it's turned into that. While we do have to watch out for fakers, time-wasters or those engaged in a long game to whip you into line, I don't know that I saw that one coming.

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Thumb's picture

We had 'graffiti' issues too, which were the easy calls to make. But it was the wanderers that we parted ways on. Plenty of people wanted to discuss what to do in a Trump/Hillary match-up (I would try and tell people to wait until after the convention to worry about that matrix) and some would explore what I called Strategic Trump, the idea that a Trump victory would so discredit the Hillary movement that it would make it easier for progressives to make serious gains against establishment Dems.

Setting aside where I fell on that I thought as a Mod it was still worth engagement as the posters were still pro-Bernie and pro-progressive, but just exploring different tactics. But nope. That was still "advocacy" and a rules violation. Not that this is enforced uniformly either, which make it even more difficult and it just started to be too much "watch what you say" and comments that opened with, "Don't ban me for saying this, but what if..."

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Alphalop's picture

"Don't ban me for saying this, but what if..."

Was the biggest reason I stopped posting or visiting at TOP.

Sooo glad we tolerate virtually any opinion here as long as it is presented in a thoughtful manner.

Doesn't mean others won't tell you why you were wrong, but they will attack the flaws in your logic or position that they may perceive rather than just calling you an asshole... Smile

This is one of the few places on the net where reasonable and intelligent discourse seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

I'm just an occasional lurker at the sub rather than an active participant, but I saw that there was a big influx from S4P after the mods there started saying that they would vote for Hillary and let the trolls run wild. I never noticed the rules expansion at KFS till now, though. Sucks that you got banned, but we're glad to have you here!

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thanatokephaloides's picture

Having that reply/question removed and my account banned wasn't the answer I was expecting, but I suppose it was an answer nonetheless. I didn't think it was possible to make Kos look tolerant by comparison, but there we are. And here I am.

Thank you for sticking around here, Thumb.

This report is definitely causing me to ask what the fuck is going on over there.

Sad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

GreyWolf's picture

kinda in response to that post about finding direction - a post about an interview with Richard D. Wolff - and was set upon, in a vein that pretty much attacked Mr. Wolff. [Coincidentally, I am a Wolf ;-]

I politely defended him a bit, then said I couldn't speak for him, then elaborated on how I saw Media and Capitalism and Politics all tied together, and I discussed some of my experiences and that things weren't necessarily the same all over as in her neck of the woods. She eventually apologized, and I left.

All in all, it was not a pleasant experience. I'll probably not go back.

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Thumb's picture

Great link.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Thumb's picture

After reading the whole exchange, it really looks like another example of a Thin Blue Line. You had a great essay question point, and she couldn't see past what she thought was a criticism of her entire institution, the honor of which must be defended, rather than try to see the underlying point of the question. And then she'll wonder why the police can't police their own.

Her response to whynotsocialist was her typical defensiveness in place of constructive engagement, "This [that academics are responsive to paychecks] is one of the weirdest bullshit conspiracy theories I have ever actually read... You have a warped, warped view of professors. You don't even understand that all universities are funded from profoundly different sources, do you?" Yeah, because no one ever attached holding the right opinion to a paycheck or to maintaining status among peers?

She treats the sub like one of her freshman classrooms, and there's the ever present fear that "teacher" is going to land on anyone with a ruler across the knuckles. Gold stars for polished apples, though.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

GreyWolf's picture

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Flyswatterbanjo's picture

That was one of the secrets to his success. Think of all the groups that were there: the cat & dog group, the gardening group, science, lots of things that had nothing to do with 'the mission." But that's how the site grew. There is a danger of too narrowly defining the scope of a blog.

But he screwed the pooch of course.

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lotlizard's picture

and wanted to make the brains run on time.

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Alphalop's picture

program if you people are gonna keep making us spit stuff on them...

This is not the first time you have been responsible for Honey, Bourbon and Ginger Beer being doused upon my keyboard if I recall correctly LL. Wink

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Thumb's picture

For the WIN!

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Thumb's picture

He started out well, but eventually he too fell victim to the Authority Trap. "I know what's best for you, respect me or die!"

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

hellinahandcart's picture

I so enjoyed your snarky comments at TOP, very much. Sharp wit is a sign of great intelligence.
Qualifier: I don't really understand the details of what you're talking about, in regard to validity at one site, vs. validity at another. As an "old," I understand that the ability afforded us to communicate with not only millions of others in our country, but millions of others in other countries, is something I could only dream of as a young person growing up in the 70's. I am so fascinated and thrilled w/ all of the debate, argument- even trolling-
that is going on in the www.
What is my point? (and maybe my opinion as an "old" is irrelevent- and I would understand that based on my firm belief that the youth are the future) But perhaps spend less time refuting false negatives and more time promoting truthful positives.

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Thumb's picture

It was just a long rambling stream of thought on how it only takes one or two psychopaths/bullies to ruin an organization, and how difficult it can be for anyone to try and either not fall into the Authority Trap of being seduced by power (and then wielding it like a club) or to speak up from within when they see it in their own organizations.

The convergence of the most recent police shootings and my being shot banning for failing to show respect to authority asking an honest and valid question just struck me as an opportunity to highlight what real leadership, ala Bernie, looks like by way of comparison.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Mass Southpaw's picture

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jimpost's picture

Most folks are simply ignoring you. That's probably for the best. But this needs to be said. Perhaps more accurately, I need to say it:

You do not just waltz into a conversation, accuse someone of lying and waltz back out. It simply makes you look like a back-stabbing asshole with a grudge. If you felt strongly enough to come here and accuse Thumb of lying, you should be prepared to back that accusation up with evidence.

If you do so, know that I, at least, will read it and make my own decision about the matter. If you do not, well, it's back to the circular file with your post.

Have the courage of your convictions, hmmm? Instead of just slinging mud and running away.

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The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.

Thumb's picture

Anyone is free to see my last comment, and all of them, and decide for themselves.

I think what he's referring to is "The first rule of Fight Club is; No one talks about Fight Club." I stayed quiet (publicly) after resigning over bullshit treatment, and I only wanted an apology. It was only after a bullshit ban (as a lesson to other mods) that I thought people should know how toxic it's become.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Thumb's picture

https://www.reddit.com/user/FThumb/comments/

It's easy enough for anyone to see my last comment, and it's exactly as I stated. My entire comment history is there too, if anyone wants to point to any comment that comes anywhere close to breaking any rule. But no one has said or can say what rule was broken or you would have instead of coming here and throwing the "liar" label around.

I also know MO went on a rampage after my last comment/question (psychos will not tolerate being questioned by riff raff) and was all but begging one of her loyalists to do the banning for her so she could claim "she didn't do it."

"Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?" Typical psychopath.

I expected better of you than to come here lying to protect her. Thin Blue Line indeed.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

I don't want to run afoul of the rules here, but I am going to validate your concerns with my own experience. MO has a good line of bullshit about being inclusive, collaborative, being a "big tent", etc... but in fact people who dissent from whatever narratives are popular there, or who question anything about the sub's direction or moderation, are banned and their comments removed.

It shows very strong signs of becoming just as much of a toxic garbage pit as DailyKos, only with different people in charge and pro-Bernie (or pro-whatever the flavor of the month ends up being after July) instead of pro-Hillary.

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Thumb's picture

As a mod I could see what was being removed and what people were being banned for saying. I was horrified. Sure many were obvious trolls, but others...?

but in fact people who dissent from whatever narratives are popular there, or who question anything about the sub's direction or moderation, are banned and their comments removed.

The first rule of Fight Club...

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

jimpost's picture

I hate "big person" idolatry.

Bernie was/is awesome. Now we need to run with the 'ball' and make it mean something.

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The more people I meet, the more I love my cats.

Thumb's picture

but in fact people who dissent from whatever narratives are popular there, or who question anything about the sub's direction or moderation, are banned and their comments removed.

She's now banning and removing more long time and very popular sub users who dare to be critical in even small and constructive ways, people who helped build that sub into what it is, and she's probably not done yet. "Accept me as Omnipotent Leader, or be gone!" MO's become much worse than Kos on his worst days.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Thumb's picture

I was trying to do what I could to encourage cross posting between our sites (and Stephen D has been doing great work on that), we're all in this together, but it just became more and more difficult considering how narrowly restricted and "controlled" from above it was. The "rules" sidebar now runs longer than most posts. There's still some great people there, just as there's still a few left at Kos, but damn if it wasn't out of the frying pan and into the fire as far as open discussions went.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Bollox Ref's picture

Look, frankly, unless something earth-shattering happens, Clinton has the nomination. I've supported Bernie, but I've now moved on. I'm far more interested in what he has created, going forward.

But good on him for his efforts.

Anyway, an endorsement of Clinton doesn't bother me because Clinton doesn't matter to me.

And that particular part of reddit will soon have no point.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Thumb's picture

Constantly expanded rules to give justification for more bannings of people she didn't like. And when I protested I became the next person in her cross-hairs.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Flyswatterbanjo's picture

There's a cycle. People start a sub, things are going great, then the moderation power kicks in and the trolls drive everyone crazy, then probably paranoia sets in, then moderation gets more intense, then people leave.

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riverlover's picture

When a site can even categorize some as less-attached to a nascent leader, it gets ugly. I know where I am not wanted. And that is offensive to me if I have not used bad words until I do. Changing rules, screw that. I have not visited there for a while, reddit style is loose and difficult for me. Not a good explanation, but one (I) would think that on an anonymous dialog everything should fly other than threats of violence or mayhem.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Thumb's picture

but one (I) would think that on an anonymous dialog everything should fly other than threats of violence or mayhem.

We could all agree that Urban Blight was not a motif. It was generally accepted that leaving 'graffiti' on the walls made the neighborhood look bad, and that we removed.

While myself and many of the other mods got that our job wasn't to be art critics but to try and keep people from pulling [rhetorical] knives on each other over discussions around controversial topics, we lost the battle to be an open town square to someone who wanted to be curator of a more narrowly focused gallery on a side street.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

riverlover's picture

Nice analogy.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Thumb's picture

From my experience the problem is that unlike sites like this one or TPW it's too easy to make a bunch of people moderators, and without any real management or moderator experience it's too easy to fall into the Authority Trap, where doing nothing when it's required doesn't seem like doing enough, and a pack mentality comes into it, and sadly humans in packs don't do a very good job of being tolerant of dissenting opinions that fall outside the "leader's" view.

That, and on reddit it really only takes one or two out of a larger group of mods to ruin it for everyone, just like real life (and thus my impetus for writing this essay). We had a great mod team and we spent a lot of effort to help the more aggressively inclined to "get it" and let conversations play out and let people be people in all their messy glory (not saying trolls weren't quickly removed, regularly), but then MO would come in like a wrecking ball and swing the ban hammer left and right and with that she unleashed the couple others (mostly one other) who got off on the power and completely undermined the good mods' work.

It was when she justified opinion based bannings with "It's not our job to save tortured souls" that I resigned, and that's all it took for me to cross the Thin Blue Line and leave a target on my back.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

hellinahandcart's picture

and without any real management or moderator experience it's too easy to fall into the Authority Trap, where doing nothing when it's required doesn't seem like doing enough, and a pack mentality comes into it, and sadly humans in packs don't do a very good job of being tolerant of dissenting opinions that fall outside the "leader's" view."

I think you just described Congress.

Please allow me to digress in a lateral way:
1. We PAY state and federal congress's salary and insurance benefits and pensions.
2. WE pay state and federal congress's salary and insurance benefits and pensions.
3. WE the PEOPLE PAY our state and federal representatives' salaries, benefits, insurance, and pensions.
4. Think about that.

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Thumb's picture

But corporate lobbyists make them rich.

And that's where the system falls apart.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Dear Thumb, was so glad to see you posting just now - and so very disappointed to hear about MO, for whom I've always had the greatest respect.

"It's not our job to save tortured souls"

to justify bannings does not at all sound like my concept of Progressive/liberal - but I hope you'll be mass-post here (I've been pretty much off for a while and have missed much) and at the Progressive Wing. I always look forward to reading your commentary.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

CaptainPoptart's picture

The good ones will find their way here, while the others will probably end up back at TOP.

Meanwhile thanks for an outstanding essay. Always look forward to your posts and this was a particularly good one.

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I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than teach ten thousand stars how not to dance. - e.e.cummings

Unabashed Liberal's picture

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Bollox Ref's picture

But it's a Bernie only site (within the constraints of the Democratic nomination), and I'm not 'just only Bernie', or the Democrats.

C99p is more my cup o' tea.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Thumb's picture

I was trying to get across that we needed to be a larger, broader movement, and by being that restricted they turned it into a fan club instead. We couldn't even discuss where the Green party fell into all of this.

Too bad, too. So many good people there to have to fit into what one person from on top wanted everyone to fit into. For our own good!

Where have we seen that before?

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Thereby killing free discussion and excluding many options... how sad...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

I thought you were amazing over there. I also think we're coming from a similar place when we talk about a broader leftist movement. Additionally, for those of us coming from the Democratic Party, I thought helping the Green Party unconditionally in their efforts to collect signatures for ballot access would be much better than waiting to see if we needed to "use them" for our purposes. In other words, helping them with no strings attached is a good way to demonstrate through action that our definition of "come together" is not the same as the party we abandoned. We have no expectations that a line will be formed in the place where our group happens to already be standing. I think quite a few of us (along with folks from other groups) are already doing a good job sending that message.

That said, I also think very highly of MO. She and I have disagreed on this exact issue, but it was always civil and it never felt personal. And I actually thought the narrow focus of the reddit was very helpful during the primaries. It didn't feel authoritarian to me, but more like people keeping an eye on the clock and helping each other stay focused while remaining mindful of the narrow time frames involved. The pace of a presidential primary contest is a little beyond my comfort zone, so I guess I actually need that sort of thing. I don't always see it when I have enough information to act, if that makes sense? Conversely, I think some folks need people like me to hold them back from leaping off that occasional cliff. Overall, I think we're stronger together.

Also, MO left behind a highly focused group when she went on her trip and then came back to something that appeared to be drifting in several directions. To my eye, it was just a natural (and healthy) adjustment to the slower pace after those last states had their say fell victim to the Associated Press. Some of us had already been looking forward to that time just to digest what had already happened and maybe bounce some ideas around too (discussion of even bad ideas that end up rejected can be extremely valuable). But it may have looked different to her since she was away during that transition and maybe she jumped in a little too quickly to fix something that wasn't really broken? That's not to excuse your banning. I'm just saying that we're all confused and I'm hoping that she will come to see this as a mistake.

I think a lot of our confusion comes from discussing individual components of overlapping strategies over multiple timelines without always indicating that latter part so that the individual component can be easily recognized in the context intended. For now, I think that's nearly unavoidable, especially considering that we're so often venting our anger and betrayal. We're multitasking! We're simultaneously an activist community and a support group for ourselves. Overall, I currently see it this way: I think it's very unlikely that we approach November with any kind of coherent strategy. We ain't needed no strategy yet, so don't let that worry you. Even without Bernie, I think it will still be possible to form a consensus, build some momentum, and do some amazing things. Even if we don't win, it's within our reach to demonstrate that we are serious about building a viable alternative to stupidity and to make it known that we will be offering options that not only exist outside of the traditional 87% evil to 100% evil range, but are actually certified evil free. The two headed duopoly beast will not be happy about that, but fuck it. It's not our fault that it bought up all of the available stupid at inflated prices and now has to worry about getting stuck with all of it as the market turns away from stupid. Also, I sense that we ain't quite done attacking the Clinton Industrial Complex and causing it to experience very high levels of annoyance and discomfort. I didn't even know we had the ability to do that and it turns out to be great fun, so let's be sure to work some more of that in! My main hope is that we make it through November without limiting our post-November options. Leftist tribes have united behind Bernie. We would be fools to let a chance for an ongoing relationship slip from our grasp.

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Thumb's picture

There was a lot going on behind the scenes. Sending PM.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Unabashed Liberal's picture

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Thumb's picture

So someone just sent me this link as a PM. Looks like our Kossacks_for_Sanders sub leader has been pulling shit like this for a long time.

http://m.dailykos.com/comments/953407/40660151#comment_40660151

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

GreyWolf's picture

because many of us refuse to click on GOS links on principle (and now the curiosity is great ...)

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Thumb's picture

just to read that, based on the source of the PM, but I get what you're saying. Too much there to clip into a box quote.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

LapsedLawyer's picture

I broke a two month clean streak

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"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon

Thumb's picture

Now I have to start my counter all over again.

But I did it for a good cause! And it didn't restart any cravings, so I might actually still be clean in spite of the quick relapse. Smile

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Alphalop's picture

old diary that I wanted to repost here but I pride myself in the fact that I didn't click any other pages, had adblock enabled, copied it and logged out and then for the sake of metrics manually logged in to here from the same window. Smile

I wanna read it but I just can't bring myself to go there twice in a month let alone in a day, lol!

(edited to add crap, It may only have been my two week chip because I went there for someone else a couple weeks ago I think, lol!)

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Wow.

Wow.

I had suspicions that I feared were the product of personal bias, and this validates every one of them.

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Cachola's picture

What's so wrong with it. Apart from the Markos part.
mahakali overdrive kos Mar 07 · 02:25:42 PM
Kos, what's happening is that AA posters
and any diaries concerning race are absolutely flamed, in fact, by trolling that is more persistent than I've seen since the Primaries.

I have no interest in keeping MB as blog-nanny either, beyond feeling that he does a fine job as a moderator.

So for those of us who are trying to engage in conversations about race, frankly, we're being trolled to HIGH HELL. In dead diaries. By about 20 repeat offenders. This is very obvious in the Black Kos Community, which is your current top-rated community in this year's KosCars.

So for those who want to participate in these conversations, the flame wars -- which are racially oriented -- are not possible to "ignore."

I would request some further moderation here.

Non-white posters are pissed off and leaving, or just pissed off. This is not a white site. This is a Democratic site for people of all colors to feel safe to post without 15 or 20 people antagonizing them over the course of days, in hundreds of comments. While I realize it's always tit-for-tat, I also realize that when people already feel somehow politically marginalized, we have an absolute obligation to ensure that their voices are not drowned out.

This is my perspective after working on Latino rights advocacy for some 6 or 7 years, and due to teaching about racial disparity in the course of my academic work. It is being played out here, sadly, with no less vehemence at times than on RedState.

I don't say this to antagonize you, Markos. I make this appeal to you because I generally feel you're a decent person (even if you're gruff, etc... and people like to take pot shots at you). And I know that you do not tolerate racism, or thinly veiled bullshit from the Right. But here, it is happening on this site from some members who accrue literally hundreds of HR's for it.

And nothing happens, other than that non-white posters leave and other non-white posters take one look at this site and say, "Fuck that." You know that's not okay. Obviously! So please, as you reassess the moderation system, take this reality into account. I'd be glad to send you several hundred links to corroborate my point, naturally. I half-jest.

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

Thumb's picture

But it was in the long extended comments thread that MO was really exposed for hypocrisy and (potential) psychopathy.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Meteor Man's picture

Outstanding contribution Thumb! In my earlier diary about Policing the Police I inadvertently neglected the systemic big picture.

Militarized law enforcement is of course encouraged/demanded by legislative funding incentives at the federal and state level. The damage Scalia inflicted on judicial checks on police authority (with cooperation from the rest of the Supremes) will take decades to overturn. Decades we may not have even if genuine civil liberty justices were appointed.

The systemic problems also include our educational and media institutions. No aspect of American society has been unaffected.

The Powell Memo may very well have been the death knell of the American experiment and perhaps even life on earth. The damage done by "Movement Conservatism" runs broad and deep.

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

shaharazade's picture

directing this at Markos? Let it go. I like what your saying but please let go. That place stinks to high heaven. Why keep focusing on what Markos has to say or any of his minions parrot ad nauseum. That site sucks They are morons. Might as well be right wingers, actually are. So forget about it.

Try looking beyond the mentality that prevails on Daily Kos. Let ti go it"s pure evil. Your smart guy. Lets move on and leave all this shit behind us as it's just a waste of energy and time. Kos is nothing he is a distraction. On the other hand if we all leave this Democratic bs.behind we can try to figure away to move people to not accept this insane choice.

All of them including Bernie, need to be gone daddy gone.The pig cops are part and parcel of the world as we find it. Yeah let's take Trump down he needs to go .Let's all vote for the psycho killer HRC cause Trump. Forget about it Bernie has acquiesced, he rolled over.So now what? Let's at least let go of the storyline that says vote for The Mad Bomber cause other wise all gonna die? Yeah right. et tu Bernie?

Where's my habeas corpus? not to mention Posse Commitatus

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Thumb's picture

I don't see Kos as a narcissist or psychopath, and my essay wasn't meant to be directed at him at all. Though I do see him as a sellout who ultimately fell victim to the Authority Trap that befalls so many organizations, this was more about my impressions of workplace psychopathy as it applied to current events large (more police killings) and small (my ex-reddit sub).

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

riverlover's picture

and in my peaceful times try to interact on a non-judgemental level. With certain people lines have been drawn about belief modes. There is push and pull on those accepted lines. Some are drawn on shoreline and can be erased. By other factors, like waves and tides.

I think more about push now, gently. Too many divisions, too many pix with memes. Burma Shave signs were more fun. We are in a too-small boat to not rise to cooperate.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

I've always thought that the only real power a leader has is what is given to them by the people under them. Sure, they have the power inherent in their position - what I refer to as the stick - and their weakness as a manager/leader is in proportion to how often they fall back on the stick. If your only answer to a question is the stick, you've got nothing. The worst I can think of are the ones who were kicked around a lot in their life, and now that they've got a little power, by god they're going to be the one doing the kicking. Refusing to engage or fear these types drives them raging nuts. They work to get rid of you before you can demonstrate to others (and most importantly to themselves) that they're a paper tiger.

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Excellent point! Victimizing groups in a sense requires the assent/toleration (typically from fear of consequence) of the group involved and it may take quite a large portion of the group to say that whatever benefit is gained by them from the situation is more than offset by whatever bullying/abuse/control freakery they're being subjected to in order to walk out/demand change/the replacement of the problem person. But as long the situation can continue under an abusive/psychopathic leader, it generally will. Others may be reachable and teachable, though, if they can be brought to understand the cost of their behaviours.

Edited because I haven't had enough coffee yet (my favorite excuse!) and apparently cannot write a complete sentence, lol.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

riverlover's picture

although I came out gaslighted, thinking maybe it was all me. Being ganged up on, reported for whatever sniffle someone else is having, I ended having negotiated a 6 month bonus. After I left I have spoken to several other escapees, and at some point all is spoken of in code. Fear of lightning strikes, or something. I liked being the teacher's pet more.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.