ok, hrc is being imposed on us; some thoughts
I'm not saying give in and get on board the $hillary train. I'm not saying LO2E is OK. It blows. But, it's probably a done deal...
So, first things first: does anyone here think trump would be a better choice? Would you vote for trump? Personally, I don't think he's a legitimate presidential candidate. (Nor was mitt for that matter) He'd be the equivalent of having Archie Bunker as president. He's a character/caricature. Who is the actor behind the role? (I suspect Carroll O'Connor had more substance than Donald) Sure, we already got that with Reagan, but he had spent some time in gov't and had establishment support. I suspect a trump presidency would amount to the gop house setting the agenda and running the entire gov't, and anything at all to come out of it would be bad. Of course, hrc would be marginally better at most, like another BHO term with the potential for a little more war. Despite Bernie, she's the best we're going to get this time around.
It's my opinion that Bernie got the best result possible under current conditions. He did what corporate media will never do: he suggested alternatives to the narrow slate of options we're currently limited to, and demonstrated such alternatives have wide support; he demonstrated that it's possible to fund a national campaign without 1%er's $$$; he gave big time legs to the OWS message - that the 1% gets everything at the expense of the 99% and the system is rigged to keep it that way, and pushed that message out to millions more people that needed to hear it; he revealed to those that are paying attention that what they suspected could now be stated as fact - that the dem party has been bought and co-opted. (However misguided they may be, "conservatives" seem to be figuring out the same thing about the gop) He revealed clearly and for all to see, the extent of what we're up against. As OWS laid the groundwork for Bernie's run, his run has laid the groundwork for the next round. He only made that headway by joining and campaigning in the dem party. He did so despite their rejection of his candidacy and agenda.
Third parties are not likely to get enough exposure, and thus enough support, to make any kind of dent, or even to justify their inclusion in the greater circus. The system really is rigged against them.
I don't hold out any hope that any scandal will topple $hillary. Reagan survived Iran/Contra. Big dawg survived Monica. The cheney regime survived making fucking torture a national policy, and throwing the constitution out the window. A little (or a lot of) corruption in the Clinton foundation isn't going to matter. Corruption and hypocrisy are SOP in congress; the gop "culture of corruption" and the Abramov scandal blew over. Once in a while some congressman takes a fall, but none of the big players do. The system protects its own; membership has its privileges. Like being able to make your own rules. Like making theft and corruption legal. The fact that we're aware of these things doesn't mean most people are. The media ignores anything that can make any real waves. Also, I'm not ready to start paying attention to conservative sites and organizations just because they're anti $hillary like me. I think they're part of the problem, like $hillary.
Policies are a problem. The gop can't run on theirs, because their policies are damaging and unpopular. They dream up things for people to fear or resent, then run against those. It's getting so the dems can't run on their policies either, pretty much for the same reason. And none of them want to run against the policies Bernie champions, because they're popular. So, vague, windblown pronouncements of favoring or not favoring some oversimplification or generality is what we get. And discussing policy, as Bernie did whenever he got the chance, and which he berated the media airheads for avoiding in favor of whatever distraction they were parroting at the time, is dismissed as wonkiness. Such discussions can lead to people suggesting radical or pie-in-the-sky pipe dream ideas, which we all know are unrealistic, and not politically feasible. Best to just avoid those discussions and focus on personalities and narratives.
Then we come down to voting... I live in WI, a swing state. I'll definitely be voting the down ticket races. I don't know yet whether I'll leave the president blank, but I do know I won't vote for trump.
So, hrc is being imposed on us. I have to assume it will be at least as bad as the cheney regime. After this, the dem party won't have a leg to stand on. They know they may have gone too far for a lot of people this time around; you can tell by their frantic efforts to find some kind of validation by getting, or at least claiming, endorsements from "progressives" (even if those progressives' credibility may be destroyed by those endorsements - they're really disposable once they've served their purpose, and they'll be sacrificed happily by their party). Their efforts to shut down Bernie's campaign and browbeat him onto the bandwagon smack of desperation. We didn't choose her, and we were deliberately denied our choice. We sure as hell won't owe her a second term after she ignores our agenda in her first. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think she'll be a one termer. I'll be watching for an alternative to emerge in the coming years. Such an alternative should find fertile ground.
Comments
I want to put this to the test.
If there is ever a time to find out what is possible, now is that time. We simply do not know what is possible in this new age of social media. Ross Perot may have been known as the usenet candidate in 1992, but that was only to 17 people. The presumptive nominees are neither liked nor trusted and I honestly do not know which would be worse overall. Lesser evilism has reached a new level of absurdity. I will no longer support evil of any measurement. I see no evidence that the world requires any additional evil at this time. There is not the slightest chance that I will vote for either of these people. I'm in favor of taking some steps in another direction even if it means falling down a few times. I don't say that in anger. If anything, maybe I feel guilt. I've played a role in bringing us to this point. No more.
I think it applies in this cycle
Maybe both parties screw the pooch bad enough this time to open the door for a 3rd party challenge next time. Maybe one of the parties implodes under the weight of their corruption and avarice. Still, gaining momentum, especially terminal velocity, will not be easy. But, otoh, I believe we are coming into a period of living in interesting times, and I think we could reach a point where enough people figure there's nothing to lose.
This link was left by vlbaker
US Presidential Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton. (IMAGE: US Embassy, Flickr) John Pilger: Why Hillary Clinton Is More Dangerous Than Donald Trump
After you read this, ask yourself again if Trump is worse than Clinton.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
My Answer
So, first things first: does anyone here think trump would be a better choice? Would you vote for trump?
YES, I WOULD VOTE FOR TRUMP BEFORE I'D VOTE FOR THE CLINTONS.
And I agree with Pilger - read it a few days ago & cheered!
The Donald is an UNKNOWN QUANTITY --
unfortunately for the $hill, her long history of corruption, voting record in the Senate of the US, criminal (and war-criminal) behavior as SoS, campaign statements, deportment of self and surrogates during the campaign -- leave no doubt about what will happen during a $hillary presidency - War! Mayhem! Destruction! Rapine! Fraud! Theft on a Massive Scale!
The headlines just write themselves.
I opt for uncertainty, rather than the path of certain collapse.
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
Disagree
Both parties are currently weak. From where I am I see the economy significantly weakening. We haven't had such a low percentage of starts industry wide since early 2007. If you couple that with the fact that there hasn't been a new president that didn't get to watch the economy crumble since Reagan v Carter we may be in a world of hurt. That will take down one party while making the other stronger.
Brilliant and eloquently stated SquirmyRoo
I found your statement quite powerful and it really resonated with my thoughts.
I am not afraid of some pain if it is for the long term good, FSM knows I have incurred enough pain for the 1%'s good so why not a little more for us?
Sometimes positive change is painful.
Nobody ever had a pleasant surgery, but sometimes the unpleasant is necessary.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I don't think we've ever had a potential third party
candidate as well known nationally as Senator Sanders. If ever there is a time for a 3rd party run, with a potential for victory, it's right now.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Theodore Roosevelt (former president) and a TRUE PROGRESSIVE
became disgusted with Politics as Usual in 1912, and assisted in forming the Progressive "Bull Moose" party, partly in consequence of his disgust with the ever-increasing shift of the repugs toward business interests. Theodore pulled 27 percent of the popular vote --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_%28United_States%2C_1912%29
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
yes,
he was certainly a TRUE PROGRESSIVE.
—"I don't go so far as to think that the only good Indians are dead Indians, but I believe nine out of ten are, and I shouldn't like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth."
—"Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind. Some day, we will realize that the prime duty, the inescapable duty, of the good citizen of the right type, is to leave his or her blood behind him in the world; and that we have no business to permit the perpetuation of citizens of the wrong type."
—"Criminals should be sterilized and feeble-minded persons forbidden to leave offspring behind them."
—"An alien who remains here without learning to speak English for more than a certain number of years should at the end of that time be treated as having refused to take the preliminary steps necessary to complete Americanization and should be deported."
—"No greater calamity could now befall the United States than to have the Pacific slope fill up with a Mongolian population."
—"I should welcome almost any war, for I think this country needs one."
—"I believe in power. The biggest matters I managed without consultation with anyone, for when a matter is of capital importance, it is well to have it handled by one man only. I don't think that any harm comes from the concentration of power in one man's hands."
—"Without the habit of orderly obedience to the law, without the stern enforcement of the laws at the expense of those who defiantly resist them, there can be no possible progress, moral or material, in civilization. There can be no weakening of the law-abiding spirit here at home, if we are permanently to succeed; and just as little can we afford to show weakness abroad."
—"Absolute obedience to every command is your first lesson."
—"The anarchist is a criminal whose perverted instincts lead him to prefer confusion and chaos to the most beneficent form of social order."
—"The dark-skinned races that live in the land vary widely. Some are warlike, cattle-owning nomads; some till the soil and live in thatched huts shaped like beehives; some are fisher-folk; some are ape-like naked savages, who dwell in the woods and prey on creatures not much wilder or lower than themselves."
Gore Vidal published two fine essays on the "bully" TR
and cleared up the misconceptions I was presented with in high school. One appeared in The Nation and subsequently was published in one of his books of collected essays.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Holy shiitake mushrooms, Batman!
I had no idea.
Thanks for the quotes.
Thanks for the correction. I forgot about TR
He certainly had the name recognition. Good call.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
a third party candidate may have their best chance...
...since Perot in this election considering the unfavorable ratings for both Clinton and Trump. i'm willing to find out. even if Sanders isn't on the ticket a third party candidate could do quite well. the independent vote counts for a larger portion of the electorate. Clinton will not will with the Democratic vote alone that currently stands at 29%.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-n...
love this
i may just have to get that bumpersticker for myself because, basically, that's the direction i'm going right now.
the Hillary imposition
Since she has garnered unto her campaign the means the tamper with election results and used those abilities with abandon, the bad karma ensuing from her coronation is on her and her cohorts.
We didn't lose so much as were robbed.
I think it's fine to focus on local matters; to do what we can do to make a difference in venues where we can make a difference.
Neither candidate. Protests are the only option.
I'm most in favor of constant, massive non-violent protests (much like the one in Atlanta today and tonight) in favor of our issues until they are implemented and the three most important issues of our times are solved: perpetual war, state sponsored racism and climate change. The only question is... which of the imposed candidates will be more likely to capitulate?
Not caring of which candidates "wins", it puts both parties under greater pressure by supporting a Third Party and reducing their margins. Make sure the winner wins with a minority. Make them insecure and beg for votes while facing endless protests.
From the Light House.
If everyone voted Green Party
If everyone voted Green Party and somehow managed to have the elections run clean, rather than voting for disaster and literally asking for it, wouldn't that be better?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Wouldn't that be better?
Yes.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Yes . . . It would be better
Neither Trump or Clinton deserve my vote. They both make me sick.
I'm at least going to vote for a candidate that doesn't make me puke.
I do not have that option
Since I live in NC, I can not write in Bernie or Jill. My vote will not be counted. I'm leaning Libertarian at this point since they have ballot access in the state. I wish I could vote Green but our ballot access laws are horrid.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
It's our turn, not hers, and it's time now we took it.
The problem is that neither Hillary nor Trump, nor the establishment on Team D or R sees we the people as actual people. We are just numbers, votes, commodities to be used when it suits their ends, to be pushed aside between time until our use is required again. They're both playing the same game, just on slightly different teams. They're not so much enemies as they are simply rivals. Notice one of the few times Hillary appears genuinely happy is in that photo from Trump's wedding. So it's clear they're in this together, pitting us against each other gladiator style while they rake in the cash.
I can't remember where I read this, but there's a thing that happens with dog fighting when a dog refuses to fight any longer. Because there's nothing in it for the dog but pain, misery and fear. I think we've reached that point now, where it's become quite obvious that we are being used for the benefit of the elite and to our own demise. Whatever others choose to do is on them, but I refuse to be their obedient little voter this time around. I'll vote for Stein, or will stay home. Maybe I'll vote downticket. Maybe... Considering how many "progressives" have sold out to be With Her... I don't know. It's up for debate in my head.
Anyway, there are plenty of other folks out there willing to legitimize this farce with their votes. They seem split 50/50 either against one or the other (no idea what the numbers actually for either of them are). It might feel like preventing chaos by pulling the lever out of fear, but in reality it's just perpetuating the ruse. Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
So I've still got some fight in me, but I'll do it on my terms from now on. No vote for Hill, nor Trump, and if that makes me look petulant and childish, well, here's me giving them and their sycophants the raspberries:
Ththhhfhfhhhtththhhpppptttt!
Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia
yeah, and when the dog gets to that stage in his career
he is lead out of the fighting ring, into the shed out back, and shot.
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
Believe me
That potentiality has not escaped my notice. I'm still not voting for them.
Third party votes might not end up being counted -- but yes indeedy, they will be duly noted.
Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia
You are mistaking me for someone who cares about maintaining
the status quo. I don't care if the Republicans win. I don't care if they set liberal priorities back a generation. I don't care if we don't get anything that we want. We already won't. I'm sick of being "reasonable," "pragmatic," "responsible," "mature" or any other adjective that people have used to justify supporting neoliberal politicians. I'm sick of the fearmongering designed to make us cling to what little we have while the 1% continues to rob us blind. This is my line in the sand. In my view, it's time for the left to take a principled stand.
I absolutely refuse to vote for Hillary. I refuse to enable this broken electoral system that forces you to vote for someone that you do not support. I refuse to vote for a goddamn above-the-law, corporatist warmonger that should be in jail for corruption and gross incompetence. I refuse to vote for someone that manipulated every single step of the primaries to her advantage and literally stole the nomination away from Bernie. This shouldn't even be a topic of debate among Sanders supporters after what happened.
This is an exercise in madness. People voting for the lesser evil are doing the same thing that they've done for the last 40 years and hoping that things will get better. I'm sorry, but they won't. They'll get worse. We all know how this story ends. The Overton Window will move further to the right and triangulated centrism will become associated with liberalism. How exactly do you expect to get anything you want by voting for a pathological liar? I would rather see the system burned to the ground and actually create opportunities for positive change than support the status quo. Hillary is not a stopgap to keep the Republicans out of office. She is exactly what we should be fighting against. The only way that the left will ever have a voice is if it refuses to be taken for granted and stands up against this Clintonian Third Way bullshit.
I will not yield. I adamantly refuse. Yes, I would rather vote for Trump than Hillary. Thankfully Jill Stein is on the ballot, so I won't have to, but if my state ends up being in play, I'll have to rethink my position to keep Hillary out of office.
you are mistaking me...
for someone who thinks it matters who we vote or don't vote for. Vote for trump, or Jill Stein, or don't vote at all. We get hrc no matter what
Utah may be a battleground state
Utah may be a battleground state this time, because of anti-Trump sentiment. I am still voting for the Green Party candidate, not the "lesser evil."
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
Bravo!
Your comment made me leap to my feet, clapping. Well said.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
nopppe!
that's exactly what you're saying in so much prose. if you think third party candidates are not successful than what's the alternative to Clinton? nice try throwing that '$hillary' in there. even i don't use that term and i am adamantly against voting for her.
if a vote falls in a forest and there's nobody to hear it
does it make a sound? My point is that we get hrc whoever we vote or don't vote for. Vote or don't as you see fit.
Nice guess, but it's just a guess on your part.
true
I consider it an educated guess... If I turn out to be wrong, you can anticipate a posting titled "Me eating my words"
Yes, I do believe Trump would be the "better" choice....
if you take a long term perspective.
Clinton will do more damage to the progressive movement than Trump could ever hope to accomplish.
So to answer your question, yes, at least one person here thinks that.
#AnyoneButClinton
Stick with your ABC's...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
then vote accordingly
This is the first cycle I can remember that there's even been any kind of visible progressive movement. It was like a breath of fresh air. That Bernie got almost half the dem vote shows it's a legit movement. Not a bad start, and definitely something to build on. This time around, dems were able to close ranks and beat it back. If you think tptb are going to allow a trump victory, go ahead and vote for him.
Tell it to President Gore
"If you think tptb are going to allow a trump victory, go ahead and vote for him."
A trump win, is the best way to CLEAR a path to a Third Party victory in 2020.
tptb are more vulnerable the more we DEFEAT them - an making it very, very clear before the conventions, we will not vote for Clintons.
president Gore indeed
We actually did vote to elect Gore; it didn't matter. If you think trump can win, fine. If you think it would miraculously change the nature of our politics, I disagree. I think the fact that a trump can be presented as a legitimate candidate exposes the whole program as a sham, and also points out the challenge we face - that so many of our fellow citizens can be sufficiently distracted as to accept trump or hrc as a candidate. What path are you going to clear when the likes of paul ryan and mitch mcturtle run congress? We can't even defeat the fucking republicans where it matters. How do we defeat the dems and get a national mandate? By not voting for hrc? Where do you see the dem party caring what we vote for? What difference has it made? They already know we prefer Bernie. It didn't matter. They laugh at our efforts to defeat them. Defeating one party or the other won't change what we get this time around.
Trump will inadvertently help the progressive movement
Hillary will try to suck the blood out of it.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Exactly...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Thanks
that's what I think - Trump will HELP us in the long run a helluva lot more than Clintons, who, knowing it's the last time they'll be in power - have NO interest in their political viability anymore - will take the country to war, destroy what remains of our democracy - and most of the world in the process.
trump would be blamed on the left
He would be used as just another reason to ignore the left and stick with the "center". You seem to assume such a thing would be honestly discussed or reflected upon, just like his candidacy to date, or Bernie's(NOT). It would be our fault for not supporting hrc like we were told to.
Let them blame Trump on the left all they want...
Maybe if they actually even believe it that will help us too.
Then maybe they will figure out you can't shit on half your base and expect them to say thanks and ask for more....
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Artfully done. Many different angles on the topic at hand.
This is a logical conclusion within the spectrum of political issues and aims presented. However, you did not present the most important and fraught-with-possibility voting strategy of all:
Vote to make certain that Hillary is defeated in 2016.
It's the only strategy that will cut the entire Democratic Party off at the knees and allow it to be reformed so that corruption like this will never happen again. It is absolutely doable, and really, it's the only way that the people can leverage their power at the Federal level.
The nation's traditional-values Democrats along with the worker class were stripped of representation and disenfranchised by the Democratic Party Establishment in 2016. As a result, never before have so many voters been so aware of the thorough corruption that riddles the current Democratic Party. Over the past 12 months, the tens of millions of traditional Democrats, looking for a fair shake for all Americans, have been cast out of a Party that works against them and obviously despises them. Along with the Millennials and registered Independents, they represent the largest group of voters in the US. And they are looking for a real choice for a better future.
The only way to make certain that people are offered better candidate choices in future elections is to turn the Democratic Party on its head right now. Deliver a resounding vote of No Confidence to the Democratic Establishment and their compromised and unpopular candidate.
Make your vote count in 2016 by voting proactively so that Hillary Clinton is defeated. The message you send is that traditional Democrats and their allies can and will sabotage any corrupt candidate that is forced upon them by the corporations.
That means the Democratic Party will function only when it is controlled by the people — and not by wealthy politicians and corporations that fund them.
In 2016, show them the real Citizens, United.
Have an action plan other than not-Dem?
The millennials by majority are with us. Plans must be made before and after the damned conventions. Some are already, like getting Green Party on the ballot in as many states as possible. But advertising that? Promoting mass migration to Green beyond a few of us?
I am now wondering about the successful Atlanta road blockages. How the hell was that done? I certainly would not walk onto an interstate alone. I guess I can't ask more about logistics because PTB would love to counter stuff like that, make it disappear.
How about doing a Bill Clinton and blocking voters from the booths in November? Outside the legal warning areas. How about a campaign to have honest poll watchers in e-vote places ask voters verbally for an exit poll. Sure, not legal. Who did you vote FOR? Now that exit polling has been effectively banned. How about letting primary voters know that their votes may have been changed or never counted at all. How to eliminate sham elections?
Early morning pissed-off thoughts.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
We need to break this
version of the Democratic party before we can hope to build a better one. Defeating Hillary from the left is exactly the way to do that.
On a side note this is actually the best election to do it as Trump is relatively isolated within his own party.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I'd say we gave that our best shot
So far we've just witnessed the opening salvos.
This is a long game.
This was never going to be a one election project.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
agreed
After California, several of "her" supporters at TOP
basically said to the Bernie supporters that it was time for us to "get on board the Hillary Love Train." Screw that. I don't "do" train wrecks.
I'm sick and tired of voting based on fear of the other candidate - i.e. you must vote for Clinton because Trump is so "scary."
This is one time I'm going to take Bill Clinton's advice.
And yes, he really did say that.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGW38Zy4bJo width:420 height:315]
Neither Clinton nor Trump appeal to my hopes. Bernie did, but if he can't be the nomine, then I'll vote Green Party. And living in the red state of Texas, I don't have to worry about my vote being a spoiler. If nothing else, I'd like to see the Green Party get enough votes to qualify for federal funding in 2020. That would be a good first step in the right direction in my opinion.
what would it take to get Stein on the debate stage?
i'm curious to know what would be necessary to get Stein on the national debate stage with Clinton and Trump. would she have to poll at a certain percent? will she be automatically invited because the Greens are on the ballot in most of the states? if the millennials can't have Sanders then let's get Stein on the debate stage.
There's three criteria needed for Stein to get to debate
Info is from the Commission on Presidential Debates
1. She's Constitutionally eligible.
2. Last I heard they're pretty sure they can on the ballot in at least 47 states.
3. So far, when she's included in the polls, she hasn't reached 15% - so that is what would currently disqualify her from appearing in the presidntiual debates.
Someone somewhere made the point that if Bernie were to accept Stein's offer and run as the Green Party nominee, he would have no problem getting at least 15% in the polls. He's also Constitutionally eligible. I guess it would depend on whether or not the Gren Party can indeed get on the ballot in those 47 states (and they're trying for the other three as well.)
Clinton wouldn't do the final primary debate in California that she and her team had earlier agreed to, and Trump, for all his bluster, also backed out of debating Bernie during the primaries, so it would be great to see Bernie accept the Green Party nomination and get to debate both of them during the Presidential debates.
I wonder how many of us will switch to Green
after the convention #DumpDemsDay and will our #s swell to make it above that 15% cutoff for the national debates?
in all of my years of voting...
....i don't think i have ever been polled. has anyone here been polled? i don't recall getting any polling survey in the mail. is it done by landline? i never answer the phone if i don't recognize the number and our VOIP number is unlisted. so, can this be done online somehow? i would gladly contribute to a third party option in a poll.
I have been polled, currently get $5 per poll
I am a rabid liberal, answer truthfully or artfully when asked the usual stuff: is the country heading in the right direction? NO
No recent polling on this election, but I know how to answer. Paid polling nets me over $1/min. Too bad I can't do this full time.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Yeah, LSM
One of my favorite Billy quotes - & love your graphics.
You also NEVER ( NEVAH!) have to worry about your vote being a "spoiler" - your vote is YOUR VOTE and you're the only person who has the right to tell "you" what to do with it.
I think we desperately need a NEW "Third" party - with no history, and no "ego battles" at their grass roots - Green Party, if you look at each state, has different issues, and many of the difficulties which OWS had. Valuable for what it has done, but not the way forward.
Think it is crucially important to create a NEW party - out of the approx 14 million Bernie Sanders voters this year. FOCUSED, strong leadership, inclusive and FOCUSED: Progressive.
You had me agreeing
Until you said this:
You have forgotten Jill Stein?
You can submit to the HillBorg Collective if you want to, but my response to this craven act is this:"
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
there's no place in here that I say I'll vote hrc
For me the choice is leave it blank, or write in Bernie. I addressed the 3rd party chances. If Bernie couldn't prevail, how do you think a relatively unknown candidate will?
No, you never said you would vote for Hill
Question though...how is leaving it blank better than a vote for Jill?
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I feel they have equal value in this cycle
I disagree and this is why...
No vote has zero value to you and it is counted in the results of the election. It will be counted and reported as a no vote, but for all anybody knows, you could have been too drunk to show up to vote. A vote for Jill has zero value to you, and it is counted in the results of the election. It will be counted and reported as a vote for Jill Stein and everyone will know you showed up and voted against all the other parties. People will be certain you weren't too drunk to vote.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Time to gut team blue.
Me? I'm going two towns over this morning to put some more signatures on the petition to get Jill Stein on the ballot here in PA. I had planned to vote for her over Hillary before Bernie, and I knew that's what I was going to wind up doing in the end anyway. I hoped the Bernie run would open a lot of eyes to the empty rotting carcass that the democratic party has become, and it has. Enough? Maybe. Maybe not, people don't like to let go of comfortable lies. Until they, themselves, are not so comfortable. That time is coming.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
Guffaw!
Just had to take a moment to give props for your brilliant sig line. Made me laugh out loud. Thanks for tickling my intellectual nerd brain.
Too, in total agreement that the time of comfortable self-delusion is coming to an end. Scary times, but in some ways weirdly satisfying to witness. It's where we might end up that worries...
Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia
Triv33, was there a lot of Bernie support
in your area? If so, it might be a good selling point in collecting signatures, to point out the similarities between Bernie's agenda and the Green platform.
On a side note, I wish the Greens would consider changing the name of their party. Their platform encompasses so much more than environmental issues, for one thing, and many people who might otherwise vote Green have a knee-jerk reaction to the name, dismiss them as tree huggers and never investigate beyond that point.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained." - Mark Twain
Worse, to suggest a world-wide Green movement
is anathema to some Americans. Euro-phobia is common in those who have not been overseas other than to oversea Canada or Mexico or the Caribbean. And some of those places speak another language!!!
There are several logical leaps (tree-hugger to world political parties) that have to be overcome. Maybe New Progressives should be the re-branding? Not my decision.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Maybe we need a World-wide political movement
Green parties of the World unite. But what we really need is for people to unite and if the Green Party is the most convenient vehicle for that, at this time, so be it.
Beware the bullshit factories.
At this point in time
it's a crap shoot as far as Trump vs. Clinton. I'm beginning to believe that neither can win. Trump is just flat out imploding whilst Clinton is up for another round of high level investigation. Should she face Comey again on congressional referral concerning the Alien Queen's obvious perjury, I believe that will be the end of her campaign. She might very well step down so that Obama can pardon her. Why not? He's already shat upon on his own legacy.
Should enough pressure come to bear re: Trump's solicitation of funds from foreign nationals; that may be a coffin nail as well. Even without that, Herr Dumbfuck will undoubtedly fall headfirst into another sinkhole full of Elephant dookey. Ha-- he was just dumped by his mass mail service company for using a toxic email list. No other provider will touch that now. He may as well have tested positive with a new radioactive strain of Ebola.
Should either of them make it into the oval office, neither will be effective whatsoever. Clinton will be a pinata for the republicans 24/7 whilst Drumpf will alienate nearly every politician in Washington. He'll be hated more than Ted Cruz.
The time will be ripe for even more concerted efforts to be made in pushing for down ballot liberalism.
I still hope that Sanders, inspite of his hints at endorsement of Grandma Yuppie, will do otherwise. He may have an ace up his sleeve yet along with the patience of Yoda.
Third party time. Hello Ms. Stein. I'm one of your newest supporters.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
Re: congressional referral about her perjury
She has a special credit card for that.
Tru Dat!
That card would be issued by Obama this time around.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
Team Green for me! Vote Jill
Team Green for me! Vote Jill Stein for 2016, let's put an HONEST woman in the Whitehouse, not the crooks.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
It pains me to say
but if the Green party looks as if it doesn't stand to gain from my vote (or if there is no option for me to vote Green), then my only goal from now on is to inflict as much damage to the corrupted beast that is our government as my meager votes can do. I view Trump as the only alternative option for doing so.
If the Green party does look as if it does stand to gain (or maybe another third party, though I'm not too keen on empowering libertarians), then my vote goes there.
#Jill2016
All options on the table. Dem convention will decide.
If it goes down (Titanic-mode) then there must be a unified effort to destroy the Democratic Party. Unified. One for all. Not Alien Queen (still chuckling over that moniker).
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.