OK. I've read through all of your comments. You are members of a community mostly populated by liberals, progressives, some socialist, but certainly independent thinkers. Some are registered Democrats, still, and more than a few are registered independent, some newly minted. I'm sure this description fails to come close to covering the viewpoints of the almost 2100 members of C99 but may cover most of us.
There are many of you who have expressed dismay at agreeing with the Republicans in this hearing. Certified assholes like Gowdy no less. I feel the same unease at agreeing with the Republicans and disgust with the Democrats on the committee. I will continue to loath the Republicans because I know who they are regardless of the likelihood they are on the just side of this issue. Much of my distress comes from the ugly side of the Democrats being shown in such a brilliant light. I can't shrug it off as politics although some of it probably is. These Democratic members have more often been on the correct side of issues but sure as hell aren't on this one. They're doing their best to once again provide cover for Clinton corruption, lies, and abuse of power.
We have liberals and socialists on the side of rabid conservatives, christianistas, teabaggers, neocons, and neoliberals. There are many in the community who have vowed to never vote for HRC. Some go further and pledge the same for her endorsers. Bottom line, all of us with this plan for the general election are convinced HRC is an unqualified candidate for president by history reinforced by recent actions. She will be a disaster as president for most of the people of the US and more than a few worldwide.
Now to my pointless. What do you think this does for the people unlike us who were unsure of Trump? HRC's campaign has one message: Stop Trump! Nothing else. Doesn't this mess add a "Stop Hillary!" at all costs to a long list of disqualifying actions, real and imagined, over the past nearly thirty years the Clintons have been on the national stage?
Personally, I think this will tip those who see Trump as a buffoon who has no place in the Oval Office into voting for him. I also think it will strengthen the resolve of those who declare they will never vote Hillary and increase our numbers. In short I don't see how this doesn't crash her already steadily falling numbers.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I have been giving some thought to this idea though:
We have liberals and socialists on the side of rabid conservatives, christianistas, teabaggers, neocons, and neoliberals.
The conclusion I have just come to, which your statement actually helped me reach is this, "We are not on the side of those groups and they are not on our side, we just all happen to be on the side of the Truth on this one particular issue."
That is actually making it somewhat more palatable to agree with those that I otherwise find to be despicable.
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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
I don't know how, or if, the intersection of agreement between the conservative and liberal side can be cultivated. I have some staunch conservative friends who agree with me on more things than we disagree. It's been possible to talk when both sides understand we're all in this together and refrain from demonizing each other. This is one area where both sides do it for real. (Guilty) They are coming to the realization we've all been played for profit and power just like many long time Dems have. The millenials just say, "Well, duh!" I think there is an opportunity to bring people together around the intersection of agreement. It may be only possible to reduce the rancor of the polar system we have today but I can't help thinking someone like Bernie could pull it all together. Time is probably too short to do it in 2016 but maybe it can be done in the long term. I also doubt the door will be open long and that a Bernie endorsement of HRC will slam it shut, hard.
Edit to say: The only thing standing in the way is the fear being stirred up by both sides of the other one. We keep falling for the divide and conquer fear bait.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
The only thing standing in the way is the fear being stirred up by both sides of the other one. We keep falling for the divide and conquer fear bait.
We DO. We ARE. It's easy to get caught up in it, but I really wish we'd make more of an effort here to stop letting ourselves be manipulated. It's hard, because they push your buttons. THEY KNOW what your buttons ARE. So we cannot keep freaking out about every single solitary utterance out of someone's mouth, particularly when afterwards, the fucking MSM liars oh-so-helpfully "interpret" it for us all and we just take it all at face value because whatever it is is upsetting. We have to stop letting them jerk us around!
If anyone recognizes themselves or anyone else in particular, please keep it to yourself! I'm not here to argue with anybody or point fingers at anybody or piss anybody off. I recognize myself doing it, still, from time to time, even as I have been making an ongoing, conscious, deliberate effort to stop doing it. So this isn't me, pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but it seems to me there are some folks who might want to think about whether it applies to them or not. We don't help ourselves when we get sucked into their little games. Stop letting them play US when we're not interested in playing with them.
in the block quote is a tangled mess. LOL Even I don't know what random thought, four little words, tried to attach itself to the end of it. I enjoyed the laugh luna.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Your words, I mean. They're out there. Sometimes you put 'em out there in ways you really didn't mean to, but the words actually said something to someone else. Glad it made you laugh after the fact, but I was kind of serious there. No worries, though. Text chat isn't easy, sometimes
is vastly superior to anything the left has. They are on this faster than a blackbird on a June bug, white on rice, and the orangenss on Trump's dome put together. Even low information people hear this stuff, are avid consumers of bullshit email chains, and, like you said, also have Fox Newz. Nasty negative information definitely has a higher velocity than anything positive or with a progressive viewpoint.. This flustercluck is getting legs just guaging by the traffic from my right leaning friends. People are seriously pissed. Even my left leaning friends with military backgrounds are in a YGBSM furor. It's getting harder for them to hold their nose and vote Hillary. A couple are suddenly more willing to listen to me when I ask which is the bigger threat - HRC or Trump.
I have no doubt the Clinton machine will stay the course. They've always skated out of danger and they have lots of cover from the Democrats. Just like they always have. I don't know if this one might be different. That's hope and change I can believe in.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
This flustercluck is getting legs just gauging by the traffic from my right leaning friends. People are seriously pissed. Even my left leaning friends with military backgrounds are in a YGBSM furor.
I've never been so united with so many before today about "government policy" and "party politics". I'm telling you, right, left, no party; military/non; guys/gals; employed/unemployed. Everybody wants to talk about it, and they are angry. And they all pretty much agree on why they are angry and who they're angry at.
I'm on the downside of my fifties. Been watching/studying/observing/participating in American politics from a fairly early age (since the late 60s, thanks, Mom!) and I don't remember anything like this.
My wife wanted to go to dinner tonight so she, her mother who lives with us, and I headed out. My MIL is nearing 83, in decent health, and still mentally sharp. She reads the newspaper and watches network TV. She is an old style West Texas Democrat who remembers what it was like living on a farm growing cotton before electricity and decent paved roads. That time is not that far behind us as measured in her lifetime. Democrats, especially LBJ, fought hard to electrify rural Texas and get federal money to build roads and highways. Democrats changed the lives of Texans in ways those much younger than me do not understand. She is a diehard Democrat who is completely befuddled by her friends' and former neighbors' handbrake turn hard right into lunatic land. She also is a Hillary fan like my wife.
My MIL began talking right after we finished ordering about the latest Trump outrage porn then smoothly transitioning into the email witch hunt of Hillary. Now she has no clue what email is. It has taken more than five years of gentle prodding to get her to use one of my wife's old laptops to play solitaire. Her mad skillz end there. Even the dogs are still traumatized from our attempts to show her how to use email. She and my wife are dead certain the email scandal is one more dreamt up Republican conspiracy to harm poor Hillary and Bill's reputation. She can see no reason HRC shouldn't have her own email server. "What harm could come from it. Others do it. Maybe someone like Bill should have told her it was a bad idea." On and on, around and around, they went while showing zero knowledge or interest in the issues. You know: government documents not just email, national security, FOIA, proper handling classified information and tactically significant military information, insecure servers, mixing personal business with the business of the people for power and profit, etc. We all know the issues. They do not.
This is what we're up against. Scared silly by 24/7 outrage over a nincompoop with orange hair not named Ronald McDonald. Absolutely convinced Hillary and Bill are saints. I don't know where my restraint came from but I'm glad I've been conditioned to keep my mouth shut until I can think of a way to calmly address the issues. So. I have a plan. Wish me luck.
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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
"In short I don't see how this doesn't crash her already steadily falling numbers."
from your lips....to the ears of the Goddess, Gods, Flying Spaghetti Monster...
Maybe, just maybe, there's a way forward for real Progressives? Maybe?
Would anyone else love to hear what the super delegates are saying to each other, or how poor Robby Mook is trying to spin this.
There was a tipping-point during the Primaries, before California I think, when a path opened up that would lead to what you just described. Down this path, reality keeps folding in on itself playing havoc with one's perspective.
Anyway, at that point it seemed to me the Delegates realized that Hillary was the Hindenburg all over again. I think her vulnerabilities became obvious. Shortly after that, they doubled down in a show if anti-reality. This time, it's not going to work. The Beltway bubble has no idea what's happening out here. It's unthinkable to them. Yet, the are obviously terrified of something.
Here's something I've never said about Trump:
She's done. Stick a fork in her.
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____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
I wonder about that quite a bit lately. I would love to have an open thread some time, just to talk about what all they could possibly be so terrified of, in unison, that they hold their ears closed, shut their eyes, start singing at the top of their lungs, and stay in that seat they've got there on the USS Hindenburg...
perjury, obstruction of justice, etc. arising from her sworn testimony before Congress. The investigation of the Clinton Foundation. Conspiring to avoid FOIA, ....?
HRC is going to see her approvals dropping some more.
Bernie is still available :o)
Comments
I'm Still With Her. What's That Goddam Smell?
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Aftermath?
OK. I've read through all of your comments. You are members of a community mostly populated by liberals, progressives, some socialist, but certainly independent thinkers. Some are registered Democrats, still, and more than a few are registered independent, some newly minted. I'm sure this description fails to come close to covering the viewpoints of the almost 2100 members of C99 but may cover most of us.
There are many of you who have expressed dismay at agreeing with the Republicans in this hearing. Certified assholes like Gowdy no less. I feel the same unease at agreeing with the Republicans and disgust with the Democrats on the committee. I will continue to loath the Republicans because I know who they are regardless of the likelihood they are on the just side of this issue. Much of my distress comes from the ugly side of the Democrats being shown in such a brilliant light. I can't shrug it off as politics although some of it probably is. These Democratic members have more often been on the correct side of issues but sure as hell aren't on this one. They're doing their best to once again provide cover for Clinton corruption, lies, and abuse of power.
We have liberals and socialists on the side of rabid conservatives, christianistas, teabaggers, neocons, and neoliberals. There are many in the community who have vowed to never vote for HRC. Some go further and pledge the same for her endorsers. Bottom line, all of us with this plan for the general election are convinced HRC is an unqualified candidate for president by history reinforced by recent actions. She will be a disaster as president for most of the people of the US and more than a few worldwide.
Now to my pointless. What do you think this does for the people unlike us who were unsure of Trump? HRC's campaign has one message: Stop Trump! Nothing else. Doesn't this mess add a "Stop Hillary!" at all costs to a long list of disqualifying actions, real and imagined, over the past nearly thirty years the Clintons have been on the national stage?
Personally, I think this will tip those who see Trump as a buffoon who has no place in the Oval Office into voting for him. I also think it will strengthen the resolve of those who declare they will never vote Hillary and increase our numbers. In short I don't see how this doesn't crash her already steadily falling numbers.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I liked your analysis and agreed with most of it.
I have been giving some thought to this idea though:
The conclusion I have just come to, which your statement actually helped me reach is this, "We are not on the side of those groups and they are not on our side, we just all happen to be on the side of the Truth on this one particular issue."
That is actually making it somewhat more palatable to agree with those that I otherwise find to be despicable.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
True, we are only on the same side on this issue.
I don't know how, or if, the intersection of agreement between the conservative and liberal side can be cultivated. I have some staunch conservative friends who agree with me on more things than we disagree. It's been possible to talk when both sides understand we're all in this together and refrain from demonizing each other. This is one area where both sides do it for real. (Guilty) They are coming to the realization we've all been played for profit and power just like many long time Dems have. The millenials just say, "Well, duh!" I think there is an opportunity to bring people together around the intersection of agreement. It may be only possible to reduce the rancor of the polar system we have today but I can't help thinking someone like Bernie could pull it all together. Time is probably too short to do it in 2016 but maybe it can be done in the long term. I also doubt the door will be open long and that a Bernie endorsement of HRC will slam it shut, hard.
Edit to say: The only thing standing in the way is the fear being stirred up by both sides of the other one. We keep falling for the divide and conquer fear bait.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
It is breaking my heart to see it here
We DO. We ARE. It's easy to get caught up in it, but I really wish we'd make more of an effort here to stop letting ourselves be manipulated. It's hard, because they push your buttons. THEY KNOW what your buttons ARE. So we cannot keep freaking out about every single solitary utterance out of someone's mouth, particularly when afterwards, the fucking MSM liars oh-so-helpfully "interpret" it for us all and we just take it all at face value because whatever it is is upsetting. We have to stop letting them jerk us around!
If anyone recognizes themselves or anyone else in particular, please keep it to yourself! I'm not here to argue with anybody or point fingers at anybody or piss anybody off. I recognize myself doing it, still, from time to time, even as I have been making an ongoing, conscious, deliberate effort to stop doing it. So this isn't me, pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but it seems to me there are some folks who might want to think about whether it applies to them or not. We don't help ourselves when we get sucked into their little games. Stop letting them play US when we're not interested in playing with them.
Boy that first sentence
in the block quote is a tangled mess. LOL Even I don't know what random thought, four little words, tried to attach itself to the end of it. I enjoyed the laugh luna.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Well, ya can't have them back, lol!
Your words, I mean. They're out there. Sometimes you put 'em out there in ways you really didn't mean to, but the words actually said something to someone else. Glad it made you laugh after the fact, but I was kind of serious there. No worries, though. Text chat isn't easy, sometimes
"What do you think
This does for people unlike us"
It depends where they get their news.
Fox will be brutal in their coverage.
I heard CNN recapping, and instead of playing clips they are mischaracterizing what Comey said to go easier on Hillary.
The rightwing noise machine
is vastly superior to anything the left has. They are on this faster than a blackbird on a June bug, white on rice, and the orangenss on Trump's dome put together. Even low information people hear this stuff, are avid consumers of bullshit email chains, and, like you said, also have Fox Newz. Nasty negative information definitely has a higher velocity than anything positive or with a progressive viewpoint.. This flustercluck is getting legs just guaging by the traffic from my right leaning friends. People are seriously pissed. Even my left leaning friends with military backgrounds are in a YGBSM furor. It's getting harder for them to hold their nose and vote Hillary. A couple are suddenly more willing to listen to me when I ask which is the bigger threat - HRC or Trump.
I have no doubt the Clinton machine will stay the course. They've always skated out of danger and they have lots of cover from the Democrats. Just like they always have. I don't know if this one might be different. That's hope and change I can believe in.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
You'd better believe it
I've never been so united with so many before today about "government policy" and "party politics". I'm telling you, right, left, no party; military/non; guys/gals; employed/unemployed. Everybody wants to talk about it, and they are angry. And they all pretty much agree on why they are angry and who they're angry at.
I'm on the downside of my fifties. Been watching/studying/observing/participating in American politics from a fairly early age (since the late 60s, thanks, Mom!) and I don't remember anything like this.
Unprecedented is right IMHO.
My wife wanted to go to dinner tonight so she, her mother who lives with us, and I headed out. My MIL is nearing 83, in decent health, and still mentally sharp. She reads the newspaper and watches network TV. She is an old style West Texas Democrat who remembers what it was like living on a farm growing cotton before electricity and decent paved roads. That time is not that far behind us as measured in her lifetime. Democrats, especially LBJ, fought hard to electrify rural Texas and get federal money to build roads and highways. Democrats changed the lives of Texans in ways those much younger than me do not understand. She is a diehard Democrat who is completely befuddled by her friends' and former neighbors' handbrake turn hard right into lunatic land. She also is a Hillary fan like my wife.
My MIL began talking right after we finished ordering about the latest Trump outrage porn then smoothly transitioning into the email witch hunt of Hillary. Now she has no clue what email is. It has taken more than five years of gentle prodding to get her to use one of my wife's old laptops to play solitaire. Her mad skillz end there. Even the dogs are still traumatized from our attempts to show her how to use email. She and my wife are dead certain the email scandal is one more dreamt up Republican conspiracy to harm poor Hillary and Bill's reputation. She can see no reason HRC shouldn't have her own email server. "What harm could come from it. Others do it. Maybe someone like Bill should have told her it was a bad idea." On and on, around and around, they went while showing zero knowledge or interest in the issues. You know: government documents not just email, national security, FOIA, proper handling classified information and tactically significant military information, insecure servers, mixing personal business with the business of the people for power and profit, etc. We all know the issues. They do not.
This is what we're up against. Scared silly by 24/7 outrage over a nincompoop with orange hair not named Ronald McDonald. Absolutely convinced Hillary and Bill are saints. I don't know where my restraint came from but I'm glad I've been conditioned to keep my mouth shut until I can think of a way to calmly address the issues. So. I have a plan. Wish me luck.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Thank you for your analysis
"In short I don't see how this doesn't crash her already steadily falling numbers."
from your lips....to the ears of the Goddess, Gods, Flying Spaghetti Monster...
Maybe, just maybe, there's a way forward for real Progressives? Maybe?
Would anyone else love to hear what the super delegates are saying to each other, or how poor Robby Mook is trying to spin this.
Well played!
There was a tipping-point during the Primaries, before California I think, when a path opened up that would lead to what you just described. Down this path, reality keeps folding in on itself playing havoc with one's perspective.
Anyway, at that point it seemed to me the Delegates realized that Hillary was the Hindenburg all over again. I think her vulnerabilities became obvious. Shortly after that, they doubled down in a show if anti-reality. This time, it's not going to work. The Beltway bubble has no idea what's happening out here. It's unthinkable to them. Yet, the are obviously terrified of something.
Here's something I've never said about Trump:
She's done. Stick a fork in her.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Totally, this....
I wonder about that quite a bit lately. I would love to have an open thread some time, just to talk about what all they could possibly be so terrified of, in unison, that they hold their ears closed, shut their eyes, start singing at the top of their lungs, and stay in that seat they've got there on the USS Hindenburg...
Two words: no shit Pluto.
Make it three.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
This story will run for awhile. The FBI asked to investigate
perjury, obstruction of justice, etc. arising from her sworn testimony before Congress. The investigation of the Clinton Foundation. Conspiring to avoid FOIA, ....?
HRC is going to see her approvals dropping some more.
Bernie is still available :o)
chuck utzman
TULSI 2020
Exactly why
I still believe that he's not going to endorse her in a favorable way, if at all.
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