So define 'Liberal' for me.
I'm obviously confused.
You see to me 'Liberal' means socially progressive and non-discriminatory, someone who's in favor of economic equality and the Labor movement, someone who believes in democracy and accountability to the electorate, a person who values courage and accuracy in reporting.
In the Orwellian Newspeak of the current climate 'Liberal' seems to mean pay lip service to cultural issues while exploiting Identity Politics and never, ever taking actual action (Black Lives Matter, Immigration, Islamophobia, Global Warming, Gun Control).
It means someone who favors the accumulation of obscene wealth, corporate monopolism, and the reduction of workers to Industrial (to the extent we still have any industry to speak of) Slaves in competition with the most miserable and exploited Third World slum dweller subsisting on pennies a week.
It means someone who thinks it a galling inconvenience to even pretend that voters matter and does everything possible to hide any agency from the public while pocketing legalized bribes.
It is people who are for the most part vapid airheads who can't read anything except a teleprompter and who's only discernible job qualification is that they're telegenic (that is except for the ones who are deliberately evil liars).
'Liberalism' is not putting your faith in buildings full of faceless technocrats of no particular merit, expertise, or success who got their jobs because of accident of birth, pedigree of schooling, or both.
Those now calling for Corbyn's resignation as Labour Leader are almost uniformly the very same Blairite, New Labour, Neolib hacks who hated the fact that someone with actual Left attitudes who believes that Labour is about improving the condition of workers and the poor instead of abject toadying to City Banksters got democratically elected in the first place instead of one of the fakes the MPs wanted to win.
There's already a party in Britain for that. It's called the Tories.
(Of course it's cross posted from The Stars Hollow Gazette and DocuDharma)
Comments
Vent Hole
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.
Subverted in the US, eg TOP
Cocktail liberals? Volvo liberals? Neo-liberals?
I agree your your original what-you-thought definition.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
RL, I may have finally crossed the line at
TOP. I commented I could easily see Hillary going full-blown Brownback.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
As in Governor Brownback?
If so, I agree. She may be more subtle about it though, and line up puppets to be the scapegoats when things go horribly for us, and great for her masters.
Well she likes Governor Brownback.
Doug Henwood, on Hillary Clinton's tenure in the Senate:
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
That is so true, Ghotiphaze :),
Brownback...heh.
But, I am sorry for TOP that they are trying to push out another true voice. They need all the help they can get, I just don't have the stomach for them anymore. I tried for a long time, and felt like a deserter for awhile, but I'm over it now in no small way thanks to c99%.
I look forward to seeing you more often.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Clearly a right wing talking point.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
professional liberals
that money has to come from somewhere. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they buy you off, and water down your movement till it is no longer a threat to the power structure.
Solidarity forever
Clinton Liberals
"We have to do something about that! (case closed)" "I told them to cut it out"
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Limosine Liberals eom
Another oxymoron
On a par with "compassionate conservative" though "Clinton liberal" is probably more oxymoronic since its theoretically possible for a conservative to be compassionate.
The term in Britain
for such people is Champagne socialists.
We can all recognize the fakers?
The suckers? Those concerned who have investments that took a small hit with Brexit?
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Hey, you home yet?
We were at the lake last week. Weather was sunny and in the 70s. Beautiful. Heading up again Thursday for the 4th. Have five 20 somethings coming up (2 grandsons & friends) to watch the fireworks out over the bay.
I can tell you what a liberal isn't. It isn't Kos the paid mercenary and his Hillarybots in their pink pantsuits cheering for Hillary in the "Hillary Hangout". Words don't mean a damn thing. Remember Bush's Clear Skies legislation that allowed more pollution and green house gases into the atmosphere? I think to get close to the meaning of liberal today you have to say socialist or pinko commie.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Corbyn was a disaster
during the Brexit campaign. He was against Brexit - but failed to rally Labour against a xenophobic referendum lead by the right.
The Blair types are out for blood - but Corbyn in some ways handed them the knife.
I found both of these on Brexit very informative
Did you read Greenwald's article on Brexit?
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-t...
Or gjohnsits?
http://caucus99percent.com/content/brexit-fallout-elites-lash-out
Anything that pisses off the global elite can't be all bad. racist is quite the scapegoat and strawman nowadays
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Nonsense
Just nonsense.
This was an effort driven by the far right UK IP. Why some on the left in the States think this was a good idea is beyond me. Virtually no one on the UK left did.
In this case this was racist, down to Farage's picture in front of potential immigrants - most of whom were POC.
It wasn't a good idea,
but it was a reaction that wasn't all driven by racism. Greenwald covers it quite well.
There was certainly a left exit faction
The EU has essentially become a tool of neoliberalism. The treaty of Lisbon is an unchangeable constitution that precludes deficit spending to get out of recession. The bureaucracy in Brussels is foul and largely an unelected agent of corporate interests. There are majorities in favor of leaving the EU in several EU countries according to polls. The EU, while once a good thing, no longer works for its people, and there doesn't seem to be a mechanism for fixing it. While Frarage and UKIP are certainly in favor of severely limiting immigration, and I find them repugnant, the analysis that one often sees is terribly simplistic. There were, in fact, surprisingly large number of members of racial minority groups that voted for exit. On the other hand, few seem to have thought this through and much of the analysis is still shallow and there are obvious, looming problems. If Scotland leaves the UK, for example, will there be a hard border between England and Scotland? If not, immigration restriction is impossible. If so, will people really accept passport checks to cross the border? Likewise, will there be a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland? There are lots of tough decisions to be made.
Omigod the UKIP!
They have, what, one seat in Parliament now?
http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-...
Panic now! Avoid the rush!
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
Because it was a democratcally determined result. The people
can & do err, but so do plutocrats and other elites.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Wrong about the Corbyn narative
Corbyn delivered the labor vote for remain:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/26/corbyn-leader-brex...
The rebellion is pure Blairite oportunism--the British equivalent of the DLC, except a little smarter and considerably nastier
I don't pretend to understand the Brexit thing.
Hell, I really don't have a grasp of the British political all parties. Seems most labels are used to mean the opposite of what they mean.
My wife's brothers and sisters are hardcore RWNJs. They accuse me of being liberal. I explain being free to destroy the earth and ravaging our economy to hoard commodities rendering them unusable for the masses no matter how many are killed or forced to live a life of destitution is the height of liberalism.
I say I'm a conservative who feels if you keep the world nice it'll continue to give. You keep the workforce happy and healthy they'll continue to produce great product. Pay a decent wage and they'll create more demand for the product keeping the wheels of commerce and the economy rolling.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
I think that you've nailed the definition of "liberal";
both the 'old' definition and the sad, but true, "new" definition.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Isn't the key word here "neoliberal"?
Neoliberalism is what defines our era, no?
“One of the things I love about the American people is that we can hold many thoughts at once” - Kamala Harris
Bingo!
I have written seven essays on it over the last several weeks, nearly every week on the Wed. Open Thread. And I plan on continuing to write about it for a while yet. Bottom line is neo-liberalism is all about directing all money and resources to the corporations and the wealthiest. It is an economic ideology not far removed from Ayn Rand's philosophy. It is closely related to neo-conservatism. The two ideologies often work hand in hand. Hillary Clinton is both a neo-liberal and a neo-conservative.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
my own sense of it is that
neoliberal = mostly related to the economic sphere (less regulation, offshoring, privatization, tax cuts) and
neoconservative = mostly related to foreign policy (originally, conservatism was isolationist)
I could be wrong. But if this is accurate, then yes, Hillary would be both neoliberal and neoconservative. But is she Neo? Only Morpheus knows for sure....
Neoliberal means "slightly to the left of Himmler"
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
And, neoconservative means "slightly to the right of Genghis K"
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
My own glossary
Liberal = neoliberal in economics with some window dressing, deferential to power, in favor of some civil rights once the ground is cleared by others, not for explicit theocracy, willing to use drones
Progressive = social-democratic in economics, willing to do hard work on civil rights, critical of power, not for theocracy, not willing to use drones
Conservative = neoliberal in economics with no window dressing, skeptical of civil rights for "others," for theocracy, willing to use drones, bombs, and invasion
Libertarian = a conservative who doesn't want to go to church on Sunday
There are a lot of confused people in this country, ek . . .
but you aren't one of them.
You've always been consistently unconfused.
Lot's of people
think and say they are liberal's or 'progressives' but I guess the definition is up for grabs. There seems to be no scale left for left, center, right. You get to self identify with positions and stances that are created by the lying pols and their strategist's of mass deception. My neighbor who is sort of liberal says he's a Democrat in theory. I think he's a FDR liberal .He is more opposed to the evil right wing then enthusiastic about what the Democrat's have become. 'The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handle.' It is confusing when 'liberals' tell you to embrace the suck as it's inevitable.
As for the pols themselves they cast themselves ideologically to the demographic that most likely will support their mendacity. My definition of liberal is ek's. Up is down and both sides are just freaking evil. No liberal's in sight and if a pol actually is liberal they are immediately denounced as extremist rotten Dr. Commie Rat's. The term I resent the most besides 'progressive' which always seemed to be a term used to avoid the L words, is moderates. WTF is moderate about setting the world on fire and imposing punishing austerity on humans. The bankster's rule the world and being poor is a crime. We came, we saw, we killed is not moderate, liberal or progressive.
Alterntive to Left vs Right: Truth Politic & Power Politics
The quotation below is from the publishers introduction to Graham Harman's book "Bruno Latour: Reassembling the Political"
In his early days, Bruno made a major contribution to Actor Network Theory that is widely used on social sciences.
Graham Harman is a young philosopher who has brought Bruno Latour's work to the philosophy community and many other areas.
Here are a couple of paragraphs which have other stuff about Bruno and the book and other stuff, but the term Truth Politics and Power Politics might be useful to you.
From
Between Truth and Power: Latour’s Political Philosophy
Here is another article by Graham Harman on the book
On the State of Nature Hobbes saw life as nasty and brutish, while Rousseau argued humans lack inherent differences in power and strength. A better framework for understanding division in modern politics: Truth Politics versus Power Politics.
nice reference
I'm glad to see someone else who is reading Graham Harman. He is a very rare bird, an American philosopher engaging in prima philosophia and acquitting himself very admirably with his Continental interlocutors. I get the sense that he perceives more distance between himself and "the left" than I perceive in myself, but his work is stimulative to thinking, and there is no greater accomplishment than that in his field. I'm glad he made it out of Egypt in one piece....
neoliberal etymology
the root of neoliberal is "liber-" which is Latin for "free."
But so much of neoliberalism requires the strong arm of the state to direct the flow of profits in the intended direction (through privatization, trade agreements, etc.). So while we can import toxic toys from China, we can't import safe prescription medication from Canada. As they say, the free market isn't free. Maybe that is the meaning of "neo" in this term; the liberal economic idea was a market operating independently of the state, and the neoliberal model requires the state to be what it is. Corporations, remember, are legal entities that governments allow to be created. There could be no corporate sector without a state backing it up. Please someone correct me if I'm off here.
So when a neoliberal starts singing from the hymnbook of freedom, even that needs to be immediately challenged as a distortion of reality.
neoliberal hypocracy
Good point darkmatter. Neoliberal theory (which I do not subscribe to, but at least has a certain coherency) is used to justify domination by large corporations and maximization of the appropriation of surplus value by said corporations. However, they just pick the bits they like, the bits they can use to justify the maximization of profit, and ignore anything that is inconvenient.
Liberalism in the US is a complex concept.
In Nixon Agonistes, Garry Wills does a remarkable job of tracing the parallel threads of the two main US liberal traditions -- one manifested in the Rockefeller Republicans, the other manifested in the New Deal Democrats.
Much of what you've described as liberalism (as you once thought it) is more properly labeled, in the American tradition, as progressivism, or populist progressivism, or progressive populism, or some such.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Many thanks ek
We (meaning me for the moment) sometimes construe emotional meaning in new, fancy words like neo-liberalism. A mere construct of the mind. It's irrelevant in my world.
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking