Open Thread 08-16-15
Good morning folks.
This will be another abbreviated open thread. Let me explain why I've been so absent for the last week.
My Dad passed away last Sunday afternoon, his suffering is over. We have a house full of relatives and it's mass pandemonium here. The wake was yesterday and he's being laid to rest today. I'll try to pop in periodically but I can't guarantee anything. Sorry about another lame OT but I'm swamped right now and should be able to get back to normal next week. I want to start planning and brainstorming for the site revamping this winter and I'd like to hear any and all ideas you may have. We are steadily growing and there is ample opportunity to increase that growth manifold in the next few months as things deteriorate elsewhere, if you catch my drift. Let me know your ideas, such as: new site name; improvements you'd like to see; format changes, etc. Thanks everybody, we have a great group of folks here.
Gotta' go...Peace.
Comments
Condolences on your dad.
It can be a mixed blessing, and it sounds like your dad has found peace.
Are you still looking for a recruit for Tuesdays am??? I am trying to talk DoninMidwest into it. He spends a to of time reading on line, and I'm sure he would have interesting tidbits to share with the group.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Morning dk...
Thanks. Yes, Don would be great for the Tuesday OT. Please proceed.
Morning folks...
My dad was a Korean War vet. He brought that war home with him. I tried to get him to talk about it many times but he would just clam up. Whatever he went through I can only imagine. All wars are messed up, Korea is known as The Forgotten War and had it's special kind of nastiness. Watching what he went through and living through the Vietnam War era made me the peacenik that I am. But still the Honor Guard ceremonies for veterans are really tough to keep a dry eye, and with my Dad being involved heavily with the American Legion for over 40 years as a past Commander several times, among other positions, the ceremony will be huge with Legion representatives from all over the state of Illinois.
Peace, y'all...
my Dad didn't want to talk about, either
World War II. When I was a little kid TV showed a lot of westerns. Some war movies, too, but I was more interested in cowboys, pointing my finger at friends and saying "bang bang, gotcha!" We all did it and didn't connect it with real killing. I asked my Dad if he ever killed anyone and got the kind of non-answer that was chilling enough that I never asked again.
He had two war souvenirs. He kept a knife, never used it. I think it might have been his or maybe not. He might have kept it as a remembrance of the platoon. More importantly, I think, he had a copy of the translation of a diary of a Japanese soldier that went from "were going to win" to "we're doomed, dear wife". It was a fascinating document of the folly of war and I'm sure my Dad had it and kept it because it shows that yes, our "enemy" is also a real person.
There was a certain look in the eyes...
like a mixture of pain, fear and remorse, like a wall that can't be breached. The American Legion issues hats that correspond with the different wars the vets served in, he immediately hid his Korean War hat in the closet and never brought it out like he was either ashamed of it or didn't want to remember. I gave him a hardcover copy of The Korean War by Max Hastings hoping it would open him up. He read about 10 pages and then gave it back to me muttering about the futility of the whole thing and he didn't want to relive it.
In my business I've ran into many vets his age and one in particular opened up to me about his experience in the Korean War. He told me he could never talk to his family about it but we got to be good enough friends that he confided in me a horrific story about an incident he was involved in, what easily could have been a war crime, but he assured me that it was a common occurrence in that war. It was a terrible story. After that conversation I didn't push my Dad any further about his service.
my dad would never talk about it either...
beyond a couple of well-polished anecdotes. i found out the day after he passed that he had witnessed the bombing of nagasaki from a ship some distance away among other things that we kids never knew. lots of guys kept their memories and their demons from war bottled up and hidden away as best they could.
my condolences.
Thank you Joe...
I think some vets could bottle it up and learn to live with it, others couldn't and they were the post war casualties that the war certainly destroyed whether on the battlefield or not. Much like the current suicide epidemic of the vets that served in our wars in the Middle East. Tour after tour is hollowing out their souls.
Thank you my friend.
My father fought with the First Marine Division at Okinawa
It was one of the bloodiest battles of WWII. Daddy was cut down by machine gun fire and wounded in both legs. He said he felt lucky to be going home on a stretcher instead of in a box. He was considered as 100% disabled, but we never thought of him that way. He never really talked about his war experiences until he was in his late 60's. Then he wrote a paper about his experience and sent it into the Marine Corps archives. I think he kept of lot of the real pain out of his memoir though.
Author Gerald Astor wrote a chronicle of the invasion of Okinawa and used many of the survivors' writings and recollections as part of his book, Operation Iceberg. Astor had read my father's memoir in the Marine Corps archives and called my father several times and interviewed him by phone. Daddy's story and his picture were included in the book.
Daddy is now in a nursing home with Alzheimer's. He can no longer talk or recognize any of us. My mother always thought that Daddy's trauma during WWII was a contributing factor to his disease. I do not know if that was true, but I do know he never talked to us nor my mother about it.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
JtC, I am so sorry to hear about your father
My heartfelt condolences go to you and your family. Peace.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Morning gg...
Thank you, today is closure after almost 19 years of his suffering with asbestosis. Peace indeed!
It sounds like you,
and your family are accepting this very well. Yes, when a loved one has suffered with a debilitating disease for an extended length of time, it can be a relief to see him or her finally at peace. I am glad that you and those who knew your father have good memories to share.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
So sorry to hear of your loss, Johnny.
My best to you an your family. Hang in there, brother.
Morning cw...
thank you my brother.
Condolences JtC.
Sounds like he had a long struggle. Saying good bye is always tough.
Carry on my friend.
Morning Al...
Thank you brother, his worries are over, ours goes on. Carry on, absolutely my friend.
speaking of site changes...
in a couple of weeks, give or take, the evening blues is going to migrate here as its home base and discontinue publishing the full version at daily kos. i think that it's about time for it and my attention to move on from daily kos.
jtc and i have been discussing the form that eb will take here, so if anybody has some ideas about that, please feel free to pipe up.
The Weekend Edition...
will also migrate here, or terminated, it's yet to be determined.
You have my deepest sympathies, JtC. It sounds as
though your Father's passing released him from much pain and suffering. And, for that, I imagine that you and your Family are most grateful.
I must say, losing my Father was a profound emotional shock. He 'could do no wrong,' in my eyes. I would venture to say that if you looked up "Daddy's Girl" in the dictionary, my ol' mug would be there. The way that I dealt with his passing, was to be grateful that I had him that long. (He passed away in his mid-70's, when I was 27. He easily could have keeled over of a heart attack while I was much younger. So, in one sense, I was very fortunate.)
In memory of your Dad,
Anyway, our thoughts will be with you and yours, in the coming weeks. Hope you take good care of yourself.
Mollie
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Thank you Mollie...
beautiful sentiments, I appreciate it.
seems like
his nation failed your father twice: first by ruining him psychically in sending him to war, then by ruining him physically with asbestosis. But he didn't fail, or you would not be the good person that you are.
Be well, JtC.
Thank you hecate...
you're too kind. I've used many mulligans along the path, and will probably need a few more before I'm through. The trick is to learn from one's failings, that he taught me well. Thank you my friend.
JtC, my heartfelt condolences, may your father find peace,
he deserves it so much after all the memories he kept to himself, which is a huge burden, I believe, and after being punished twice, with the disability and the asbestos. Luckily he was blessed with a good family and loving son. Keep your head up and go on. It's a new beginning after all.
Though on the "other side" (with the evil doers so to speak), my father very rarely talked about his war WWII experiences, but we knew enough from him through his almost nightly nightmares from which he awoke shouting loudly and being in full sweat. We knew about how and when he lost his arms and how he was confronted with his own graveyard and amputation without anethesia. He never could finish the story without starting to cry and we never asked him to tell us again. He also wrote a sort of longer diary after returning from POW camp in Russia about what he remembered. I have that and it reads like an essay about being hungry, and about how the medical care for the wounded POW were at various stations on his route between Frankfort and Moscow, who betrayed whom, who was humane and who was not and how much of it was luck or bad luck. Nothing seemed to make any sense he went through.
All of my father's generations family, who were in WWII really didn't talk. If you read a lot of biographical material of German military in WWII (including SS and Uber Nazis) they rarely revealed what they actually saw and did and many denied any wrong doing til the end of their lives.
My son who went through the Iraq invasion also didn't tell me much. I have an idea what was one aspect he struggled with, but he never detailed it.
It's good to be able to forget to the extent one is capable of it. It's humane to forget. Even though it would be so good to have their memories archived for others to read, I believe one has to respect their silence.
Take care.
Thanks mimi...
sorry about your father. The real barbarity is the nation-state using common men to further the cause of the rich and powerful. Hardly ever is a war about anything other than protecting the ruling class interest. For an individual to commit personal acts of war and then many years later question the purpose of the cause itself, would be plenty reason to push those things from one's mind.
Thanks for the condolences mimi.
there was nothing special about my father's situation
it was were most Germans were. The difference is that being on the bad guys side instead of the good guys side makes probably some of the trauma processing more complicated. There are no excuses you can seek refuge in so to speak, so that silence is the only thing you have to cope.