This discussion between Paul Jay and Abby Martin is worth to be listened to
Submitted by mimi on Sat, 06/11/2016 - 10:35am
Abby Martin and Paul Jay - What Should Sanders Do Next?
You should use this link, because there is a transcript of the interview itself.
For those too lazy to make two clicks, here is the youtube video.
[video:https://youtu.be/Rj_-OJDicmQ]
They talk very fast, so for me it's good to read the transcript while listening. But it's a very interesting dispute between the two and wraps around many issues which have been mentioned here in the many stand-alone diaries in the last couple of days.
Enjoy.
Comments
Bill Moyers: Let Bernie Be
Let Bernie Be - Democratic Party leaders' efforts to get Sanders to knuckle under are premature and anti-democratic.
Moyers makes some good comparison to previous conventions in 1848 and the struggles for a civil rights supporting platform.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Quite a debate
I definitely agree with Abby. Paul is trying to establish some facts that are a stretch. Saying that Trump is a bellicose as Clinton is extremely weak. Clinton has a proven track record of wrecking countries and killing people. She is the darling of the neocons. It's hard to read Trump, since he tends to be all over the place, but I will take him on his word that he wants to negotiate with world leaders and wants to cooperate to fight ISIS. I also agree strongly with Abby that continuing to vote for the lesser evil pushes the US political center farther and farther to the right. I also disagree that Clinton as president puts a face on party corporatism, thus helping the movement. We had a much stronger movement as anti-Bush than anti-Obama, or anti-Bill Clinton. A bad Republican in power moves the opposition to the Left. A bad Democrat in power tends to make nothing as the argument is that at least the president is a Democrat and we will cover for her/him.
The act of Bernie actively supporting Clinton will create enormous cynicism in the movement and will kill it. Why trust anyone again? As a third party candidate he continues to fight the good fight and to bring the issues into focus, at least with alternative media on the internet. I think that he will get coverage in the MSM, if only because he represents a serious threat to Clinton's coronation. Please do it Bernie. The movement is far more important than the people, and you are the only highly visible voice talking about the values required to build a worthwhile civilization.
Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.
Hi mimi - thanks for the link....
I think they missed a very important point. Until the left can hurt the DP and embrace the credit for it, the progressive will never have any influence within the DP because it has no power. They look us in the eye and say, "make me". We run home to mommy and vote for them anyway.
Yes, Bernie should run third party with two goals in mind. The first one is to win and put the American people back in charge of their government. The second goal is to gain and wield enough power to make Hillary and the DP pay every time they tell us to drop dead. I've been saying this for years, and I pushed it as far as I could at dailykos without getting strung up. We need to learn from the Tea Party. Any Republican politician that doesn't do as the Tea Party demands soon finds themself out of office.
If we want any power in this party, we have to take it.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I probably should watch it again
For some reason, I thought that Abby made that point indirectly when she said that the lesser of two evils is what has turned the Democratic party into a conservative party. I was surprised at how hard Paul Jay argued for electing Clinton.
dk, I have been saying the same thing for years and Kshama Sawant proved it when she challenged a Democratic incumbent from the left.
And this...
In the tv show Dallas, my all time favorite line was this.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I didn't hear anyone say that we
should have as a goal making hillary and the Dems lose just to prove we can. I'll have to look again too gg.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I have to listen and re-read again, was also a bit suprised
about Jay Paul's arguments, almost thought that was on purpose and staged, as without him disagreeing, the discussion wouldn't have made much sense. hmmm.
But for right now I am for Abby's side. Will have to listen again.
https://www.euronews.com/live
good discussion
I caught this today and found it to be very thoughtful. Glad you posted it mimi.
I'll say again it is a long time till the convention next month. Let's see what happens. However it is good to consider options and think ahead.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I agree with you. No decisions until after the convention.
Perhaps then no decisions will be necessary to make!
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Well well well. Quite the spineless wimp that Mr. Jay
He's going to end up working for Team HillBillary. He's already making his excuses for when he makes the move.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
nah, don't think so, and the man is not spineless,
I don't know why you say that. Just look what he has buillt with the TRN network.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Is Paul Jay On Hillary's Payroll?
I haven't heard so many of the Bernie-hostile Hillbot talking points is such a short span anywhere else on cable. I'm numb!
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
(no subject)... /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live