Why it's important to at least TRY to reform the Democratic Party
I know a lot of people are disgusted with the Democratic Party, as well they should be.
The DNC lawsuit over the primary rigging proves that the Democratic Party is corrupt, and that isn't the only DNC lawsuit.
Polls show that Dem voters are increasingly identifying as independents.
So what's the point, right? Why bother with this corrupt loser of a party?
Unfortunately it's not that simple.
Our political system is rigged against 3rd parties.
If you want proof, just look at how poorly the Green and Libertarian parties did in 2016, despite running against quite possibly the two most unpopular presidential candidates of all time.
If the Greens and Libertarians failed to make a move in 2016, when could they? What extraordinary conditions would be necessary to make it happen? And what evidence do you see if that happening in the near future?
It's one thing to be skeptical, it's another to be defeatist.
This is why Bernie Sanders decided to try and reform the Democratic Party.
Is it a long-shot, uphill battle? Yes, without a doubt. But unlike a real 3rd party challenge, the war to reform the Dems has already begun.
Even more importantly, the stars are beginning to align for a "wave election" for the Dems in 2018.
By a 54 – 38 percent margin, American voters want the Democratic Party to win control of the U.S. House of Representatives. This is the widest margin ever measured for this question in a Quinnipiac University poll, exceeding a 5 percentage point margin for Republicans in 2013.
That's a huge positive for the Dems, which is likely to get even bigger in 2018 for several reasons.
1) The AHCA
A new Morning Consult/Politico poll released Wednesday showed just 38% of people surveyed said they were in favor of the American Health Care Act and 44% are against the bill.
A poll released by The Economist/YouGov on Wednesday also showed 33% approval for the AHCA and 50% disapproval.
Another poll released Monday by HuffPost/YouGov also showed the AHCA was unpopular with 31% approval and 44% disapproval.
Even if the AHCA doesn't pass the Senate, the Repubs are now on the hook for Obamacare imploding in 2018, simply because they took up the issue while they were in control. Passing the AHCA won't stop that from happening. So the GOP failure here will only become a bigger issue.
2) Presidential approval ratings generally peak after 100 days and then decline. It begs the question of how low can Trump's ratings go? At some point the Repubs in Congress will throw him under the bus.
3) Already the third-longest economic expansion in American history, chances are very high that the economy will start shrinking between now and November 2018.
China's bubble economy is also likely to burst before 2018, and that will have negative impacts around the globe.
On Trump's plus side, he's likely to be able to declare victory over ISIS in the next few months. Mosul is probably only weeks away from falling, while the Battle of Raqqa is about to begin.
But victories in the summer of 2017 will be long forgotten in the fall of 2018, especially in another recession.
To sum it up, the Dems have a real shot at taking back the House in 2018.
But if it means Nancy Pelosi being Speaker again, then the change won't mean much.
However, if the progressive insurgency can primary-out a couple dozen corporate Dems like Pelosi, and develop a progressive agenda that goes beyond "Scary Republicans! Racism!", then it could change everything.
Comments
One can only hope.
I'll remain registered as a Democrat until the 2018 mid-terms, if only to keep an eye out for decent candidates in Brevard County, FL, but it's a long shot considering Republican Bill Posey has been unopposed since the day he took office in '08. Not to mention there will be a governor's race in 2018 as well...that should be fun.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Florida governor's race
I am not sure who among the Republicans is running, but right now the choice among the Democrats is Gwen Graham, Andrew Gillum, and possibly John Morgan. There are problems with all three candidates.
For me, the worst of the bunch is Gwen Graham, daughter of for Gov. and Sen. Bob Graham. I wan always a fan of Bob Graham for a number of reasons, but primarily for the growth management act which did a lot to protect Florida's environment. It was the first thing Rick Scott gutted when he was elected. but Gwen Graham was my Rep. in Congress and she was horrible. She voted with the Republicans on nearly every bill of consequence, including the Keystone XL which had absolutely zero benefit for her own district. The people who worked hard to get her elected were pissed at her votes and when she was re-districted, she chose not to run. Now she thinks she can be governor?
Andrew Gillum is the mayor of my hometown, Tallahassee. He is young, black, engaging, and highly intelligent. I was still working for the city of Tall. when Gillum was elected as the youngest commissioner ever. Commission seats are at large. I never saw a newly elected commissioner come to his first meeting as well prepared as Gillum. As a staff person, having a well prepared elected Official is a huge bonus. Gillum was always prepared when I worked for the city. Gillum has been groomed for higher office early on by the Democratic party. He has one small ethical problem. Gillum has been accused of using city staff and the city system to send campaign emails. As far as I know, since I am not in Tall. right now, that accusation has not been resolved. The other problem for Gillum is that he is not well known outside north Florida.
The third potential candidate is John Morgan of Morgan and Morgan law firm which specializes in personal injury and suing insurance companies. Morgan is a wild card and has very deep personal pockets, but he has multiple issues (outspokeness, coarse language that is sometimes offensive and has been known to tip the bottle) that could be fodder for Republicans to campaign against. But John Morgan just might be the only Dem who could beat any Republican in Florida right now.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
A couple of reasons why taking the Democratic Party back...
...from the corporate hacks is the better option is that the Democratic Party is on the ballot in every state, Party physical and digital infrastructure and instant Party name recognition.
I want my two dollars!
I think it's more important to build the Green Party.
I am aware of the odds against newer parties. However, I think the odds against reforming the Democratic Party are even more insurmountable. The Green Party supposedly cost Hillary the electoral vote, and that is power of a kind right off the bat. (And let's not forget Florida 2000).
If Democrats were not such maroons, they would try to accommodate the left, but they won't. That tells you a lot right there. So does their refusal to concede to Sanders's delegates on even planks for a freakin' non-binding platform. Or on Ellison. All they are willing to do is give out fake and meaningless titles to Warren and Sanders and Ellison. Eff that and eff them. Inasmuch as they are well-funded and powerful and determined not to change, attempting reform from within is, IMO, a waste of time we no longer have.
Nope
The only people saying that are people that haven't done the math. Even if you assume that every Green vote came directly from the Dems, the Green Party didn't cost Hillary a single state, much less the election.
The math shows that votes that went to Stein would have
given Hillary the victory in three states IF those votes had gone to Hillary and those three states would have given Hillary an electoral victory. This was discussed here at some length on one of the threads, but I don't remember which one. (If I find the link to that thread, I'll edit this post to include it.)
Of course, there can be absolutely no guaranty those votes would have gone to Hillary, just as there is no guaranty that the votes that went to Nader in Florida in 2000 would have gone to Gore. However, my vote, for example, went to Stein and you are urging me to give it back to Democrats. I am respectfully declining for reasons stated in my prior post.
I forgot to say in my prior post that, even more important than which party we focus on is focusing on uniting with the right on an issue by issue basis, as I have been posting about for a while and as joe shikspak very recently posted about. https://caucus99percent.com/comment/264200#comment-264200 Our salvation does not lie in parties but in bringing together as much of the 99% as we possibly can around issues.
Edited to add link, per paragraph 1, above. The discussion begins with this post: https://caucus99percent.com/comment/260401#comment-260401
That's not what I recall
I believe that you or someone else lumped ALL of Stein's votes together, rather than just Green Party votes in that particular state.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty confident.
That's something I can endorse.
Found the thread.
The discussion starts with this comment. https://caucus99percent.com/comment/260401#comment-260401
(I'll also edit the link into my other post because that post says so.)
Hill lost MI by 13,000 votes
100k voted and did not vote for Pres.
50k voted for Gary Johnson
13k voted for Stein
These #s are approx. Stein had the least impact.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I don't see the Green Party as the answer (with a big BUT)
because they've been around a long time and have never built to a critical mass. BUT the Green Party has built an infrastructure and gotten themselves on a majority of state ballots which is a major, major accomplishment
I would propose to the Green Party to unite with the Bernie coalition and all the other Progressives roaming in the wilderness but could we please get a new name to invoke a new era and a new Progressive coalition? A real merger with an automatic population count of close to a third of the electorate should have a new identity.
I would be into this game plan big time. Its advantageous to all involved and would make both the other parties and the media sit up and take notice.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
This is kink of where
I am leaning right now.
My problem with the Democratic party is that they are already co-opting the Justice Democrats. Ro Khanna, anyone? The Sane Progressive had a very good rant against the Justice Democrats endorsing Ro Khanna who is a neo liberal Hilliaryite through and through. The Clintons refuse to go away and trying to take over the Democratic party from the Clinton money machine simply is not going to happen.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I think they need another round of failure
in 2018 before the DNC could be taken back.
Here's something weird, why on earth would Mitch McConnell recommend Merrick Garland as FBI director? Is this just more evidence that we only have one party, with two heads?
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
As Upton Sinclair aptly remarked...
“the two political parties are two wings of the same bird of prey."
I want my two dollars!
Or two cheeks of the same butt. n/t
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
@dervish
And TPTB form the dimple in between!
Edited for a missed 'the'. Not having a good day, lol.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Name recognition is a huge asset in politics.
Maybe something hyphenated?
As far as not having built to a critical mass: That's on us and we can change it.
Not my Green Party vote.
If they weren't on the ballot I would have voted Libertarian. If they weren't on the ballot I would not have voted at all. If someone put a gun to my head and forced me to vote then I would have voted for Trump.
They could just pull the trigger before I ever vote for Hillary or her spawn.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
same here
If I had not voted Green, I would have voted for some other minor party or left the Presidential space blank. I would have never voted for the corporatist war monger, Hillary Clinton.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I posted I would have written in Daisy Duck before
voting for Hillary.
After all, I have to vote my conscience. Daisy would be a far, far better President than Hillary.
And female too!
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I voted for Jill Stein, so "female" was not an issue.
Except in the mind of some of the DNC bots. I think even the Clintons have to know that is bs. Not sure about all the bots know, though.
Instead, America may have elected Gladstone Gander
http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Gladstone_Gander
There’s the distinctive hairdo, and then there’s this:
A lot of that going around D.C. these days.
Not "OR", "AND"!
In this Essay and the Comments thereon I have read (15:00 MDT 5/15/2017) I have seen two themes going: one, advocating reform of the Democratic Party from within, and the other advocating switching our efforts to a third party of some kind.
I think that the best bet for us leftists/progressives/New Dealers isn't the "OR" approach, but the "AND" one.
The principal advantages of each approach by itself have been hashed out here at c99p over and over again, and by writers far my superior; so I won't rehash them yet again.
But the main advantage of the "AND" approach -- doing both at the same time -- is that do what we c99p'ers might, it's what we're going to be dealing with anyway, so why not leverage the situation for our best advantage? I don't really care what the label says, so long as what's in the box is what I want!
And isn't that what our neo-liberal, neocon adversaries have been doing to us all along? And we can do it better back to them -- because we can do it honestly!
Just my $.02.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
People have finite time, energy and money. Candidly, we'll
be lucky to get most people to do a good job on one of those things, let alone both. My guess is that most people won't do anything for either cause, except maybe show up at the polls when it's time to vote.
No.
Not just no, but HELL NO.
I read the 123 pages of transcript from the Motion to Dismiss in regard to the DNC lawsuit. Fuck that bunch. Why in the name of everything sane would anyone want to work with a bunch of bastids who think they have the right to lie to us and rob us of a fair election???
They told us who they are. They are liars and cheats. For once they were telling the truth.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
When toxic people or parties tell you who they are, believe them
http://www.toxicrelationshiprecovery.com/when-toxic-people-tell-you-who-...
My concern
is that simply opting out means this.
Bernie Sanders has a lot of
Explaining to do. The Sane Progressive took him to the wood shed, and he did not come out unbloodied. I left a link to a Scott Creighton piece on Ro, Justice Dems, Cenk, and Bernie. I'm on my phone, so I won't leave it again. None of them came out unbloodied either.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
The only problem being they don't want to be reformed
They see no need for it, they're perfectly happy hoeing the same row they always have - be slightly better than Republicans and talk liberal when forced to, then drop the fakery the moment the election is over and explain ruefully to the ever hopeful progressives that darn it, today is just not the time, but maybe tomorrow or next month or next year or next decade.
Re-inforcing the lack of urgency for change is what was cited at the top of the essay, Dems are looking at a potential wave election simply because the Republicans showed a little too much enthusiasm and blood lust at the idea of killing people by denying their healthcare.
The Democratic Party is one of two Big Money Parties. They LIKE Big Money. They like to hobnob with global corporate bigwigs and get their slice of the pie for delivering things like "market-based healthcare" or fracking or sequesters or chained CPI or catfood commissions, or Trade Pacts, or militarized police or charter schools or a stand-down Justice Department when the issue is corporate predation. They feel no need for reform and they are in the majority within the Party, sadly. They loathe us, they have made no secret of it. They let the masks down this time around to call us racists and sexists and misogynists, even though they know that is complete utter and total bullshit. It didn't stop them. Reform them? Nancy "embrace the suck" Pelosi? Chuck "we'll get two moderates for every blue collar we sacrifice" Schumer?
How many years did we already go down the "Better Democrats" rabbit hole and how has that worked out, really? How Progressive has the Progressive Caucus been when push came to shove? How many concessions have they ever gotten despite being the largest Congressional Caucus?
Meanwhile, right this moment HRC has started her new election PAC juggernaut Onward Together, which I have to imagine is the advance phalanx for her Hillary: The Retribution tour the next time around when yes, dollars to doughnuts she runs again. Otherwise, what's up with the PAC? She and Bill are probably in war rooms right now with thumbtacks on the map on the wall and picking out the allies for her You Owe Me campaign. Believe me, there won't be a Liberal/Progressive in the room. There'll be Terry Mac and Cory Booker and Mark Warner and Tim Kaine and Claire MacCaskell and Ed Rendell and all the rest of the Old Gang
The DNC and the TPTB are studying their after action reports to see how they can dig the moat even deeper to repel any future Bernie types from invading their castle.
The Democratic Party is where Progressives go if they want to be ostracized, marginalized, diminished and insulted. Advocating yet again Reform From Within is simply inviting the ever gullible Progressive baby seals to run towards the nice men with chum in orange suits with clubs because this time it will be different, we'll get the chum without the clubs. Uh huh.
Remember I said we're in the minority within the Party? That's true, but we're in the majority when combined with liberal leaning Independents. THAT'S the group we should be aligning ourselves with and forming consensus with. We are more powerful outside the Party than within it, IMO.
Because the money and power structure will be behind the status quo Dems, I will be personally amazed if any Our Revolution or Justice Democrats prevails over a Clintonite Dem in any race where both are running. I know that sounds defeatist, and that's not my intent but I just feel like we've seen this play too many times. I'd 100% love to be proven wrong on this and given the chance to I would certainly vote myself for a JD or OR candidate over any SQ Dem. But, know this, I would vote for a Progressive Independent over a JD or OR Dem, because I think their chances of not being assimilated into the great bland yawning do-nothing center would be greater.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
I bet the Obamas are in the room with them.
That's my understanding of why they stayed in DC. They told us they were staying so the younger daughter could finish school, but they are also staying so that the DP doesn't move to far to the left.
And remember that a third party can only be included in the debates if they get 5% of the votes.
The League of Women Voters used to run the debates until that rule went in effect. They didn't agree with that and that's why another organization is running it now.
I'm with Amanda. No way in hell will I vote for the DP again. Not after what they pulled during this election. And this.
And why does this continually happen? We have seen the DCCC or whoever it is that runs the state level either let the republican run unopposed or they back the more conservative person if there's more than one running.
I used to wonder why the democrats didn't get more voting machines so that the people wouldn't have to wait in long lines. Now I know that they don't because they don't want to. It's that simple.
We gave them the power in 06 and we all know what Pelosi said and what they did. They also had the majority after Obama won and they did the same things again. They always have an excuse for why they can't pass legislation that will help main stream Americans.
There is a lawsuit still hanging in there on appeal
…against the debate commission regarding Third Parties.
An earlier article in Business Insider describes what it would mean:
That's promising news, Pluto.
Thanks for bringing awareness of this third party possibility to my consciousness. I'm completely in favor of this transforming into reality.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Very cool
So the libertarians aren't totally useless.
Thanks, that's good to know about
People keep saying it's too hard and takes too long to build a third party. But independents are already a majority. Maybe we don't need to create a party, but we do need the system to allow independent candidates to compete. This fake "two-party" system has got to go.
@CS in AZ
RaBIT (Ranked Ballot Initiative of Toronto): '... a few weeks ago the city council of London, Ontario, voted to make their city the first Canadian jurisdiction in living memory to enact positive electoral reform. ...
The Canadian Liberals had promised to support and enact Fair Voting but, of course, never meant it. And Harper had passed a 'law' gagging Elections Canada regarding the public being informed of electoral fraud. (The same things always happen to countries once such as the Kochs and other megalomaniacs with US government 'ins' move in... gee, I wonder how that happens?)
Strategic cross-Canada voting efforts will have to leave them off the choices this next election (no idea why anyone thought the Liberals would be anything more than less obviously psychopathic stand-ins for the Cons in the first place) and suggest NDP or Green to keep both of the worst out, if we make it that far and can make a sweep obvious enough that there will be no chance of plausible cheating.
Dunno if that sort of thing is possible in the US?
But there's (virtually) always a way over, under, around, or through just about anything - you just have to find it in time. And there's the rub.
Edited because that first cup of coffee has yet to reach bottom, and I wrote Canada, rather than Toronto...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
They want the Bernie people to leave.
I've read several articles making the case the party would be better off without us. In effect, we did it for them. I still say the way we win is to stick around and continue to hurt them.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
That seems to be the current strategy
They'd like to ditch the progressive Left and attempt to replace us with new registration and GOTV efforts, largely among demographics that ask fewer questions than we do.
Reforming the DNC is like reforming the mafia, it's so rife with criminality that it's nearly impossible.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Hillary Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
Yes, striking back with a new PAC, called “Onward Together.”
Whoopee! Hillary takes the reins of the Resistance
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/15/politics/hillary-clinton-resistance-on...
I just wrote an essay for that
Hurrah for "grassroots".
Gawd!
These horrible people refuse to go away. They are political grifters. I despise the Clintons!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Me too GG
Every time I see either Clinton, no, make that any Clinton, because their daughter is unfortunately very much like her parents, I feel sick and disgusted. Especially now. She was muscled into the nomination and then lost. President Trump is Her fault, their fault. They need to Go. Away.
Simple fact, I just can't be associated with the democrats as long as it's the Clintons' party. It's so infuriating that they are jumping into this so-called "resistance" -- they are making a joke out of it. Trump is, in my opinion, seriously deranged and dangerous. And there is no real opposition. No one in politics or our government, in either party apparently, is capable of doing a thing except buttering their own bread. Grrrrr. I really despise those people.
@lotlizard
Lol, followed the link and started reading down the comments, came to one including this: '... It's her theme since it takes a village ...' which, considering the typically Orwellian use of words so common among such corporate propaganda types, made me realize that (edit: Hillary) probably meant 'pillage' all along. Boy, am I slow...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Reforming the Dems & building third parties
amounts to tinkering on the edges of a systemic problem that no amount of popularistic energy can undo.
Money owns our elections.
Until and unless we find a way to break the strangle hold on the fading shards of our democracy by monied interests and their campaign financing scheme, we should either just get used get used to embracing the suck of the Democratic Party or the suck of the Republican Party. Neither has the slightest inclination of changing their self serving sociopathic ways or accepting any significant reforms. Electoral reform has become an oxymoron.
Third party may be a multigenerational a one in a million long shot, but reforming either of our duopolistic parties and expecting them to reverse the money-politics bond is much, much smaller.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
What would party reform look like?
Would all the current Party insider leaders resign?
Would the Democratic platform be rewritten to express the goals of the People?
The TPP and TTIF may be back before 2018. Hillary sponsored those secret meetings to draft them at the State Department. Will we know the Party has been reformed if they formally denounce the trade agreements?
At the very least, would the Democratic Party denounce the neoliberal war profiteers? I personally would only vote for an anti-war representative.
About a downturn in the US economy, that's taking place even now at the most fundamental levels. I would agree it will be felt by 2018. However, Americans have been in economic pain for some time already.
I don't think China's economy will impact the US but I don't see the Chinese economy going anywhere but onward. They tend to accomplish the goals in their five-year plans. It may be difficult, but they are factoring that in.
Certainly, by 2020, China will pull well ahead of the US economically under any circumstances.
The only way I would vote for the DP now
is a complete toilet flush of the current leadership, and maybe one or two levels down. After hearing of the bonu$es paid out to a losing leadership, they should all be punished. A money-grab back might be nice. But of course, they lost me last summer. I have no say as a Green.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I think you're engaging in wishful thinking
about the possibility of a Democratic wave in '18. The Democratic Party has been exposed. They are hated. Hated. Hated. Hatred of Democrats has gone from general, "everyone says so" griping to a national fad. There is no recovering. The Democrats have been losing 2 million votes a cycle since 2010. Don't be misled by Hillary's 65 million votes, if somehow she actually got 65 million votes 5 million were anti Trump, and that means all the Democrats can hope for in 2018 is maybe a million more votes, all of them in already safe D seats.
On to Biden since 1973
Don't forget that 2018
favors Republicans in the Senate as well. Clueless Dem leadership and staunch refusal to change will end up with the Dems getting handed their asses, yet again, and the Repubs able to start passing Constitutional amendments.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
@dervish
That's probably the point of this. Doesn't matter which one of the Two-Faced Corporate Party gets to rewrite the US Constitution with Non-Billionaire-Americans designated as sacrificial serfs and votes/legislative and other rights restricted to billionaires - and the Dems, no doubt, have been promised massive pay-offs to go along with this. Obama is suddenly super-wealthy, to give an example to the rest of them as to what the benefits to them might be - although none of these political lackeys will be of any more use and will likely fall into the 'drain and dispose' range with the other Non-Billionaire-Americans, once US law is altered to being Constitutionally ordained to be whatever the very, very wealthiest of all want it to be at any given moment.
After all, the US Constitution is only a piece of paper, and much practice was certainly had during the Dem Primaries at Whiting Out and altering unwanted evidence interfering with The Psychopaths that Be's agenda.
Edited as I wound up with Obama being 'supper-wealthy', lol, when that was Clinton, what with all of those Big Money fundraisers during Her 'campaign'. That whole Her Royal Coronation mess almost seems kinda calculated to bring the Repubs up to the point of Constitutional fun and games, doesn't it? Of course, Her's quite capable of simply being that obnoxious, what with them all being reality-free capitalists and all, so dunno...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
BS it will do nothing
at all to try and prop up and reform the Demoratic party. Just like the Republicans they need to go. You say it's impossible to rid ourselves of the duopoly from hell as ..... ? Gimmie a break people throughout history have rid themselves of these oligarchical collectivists when they go too far and if ever a global empire has gone too far it's this one. Stop soaking yourself in American political non reality and try looking for solutions other then putting your money down on the defunct, dead as a door nail American political system.
Maybe stretch your imagination to envisioning a world that does not revolve around the political duopoly that's at the heart of the current evil global empire. Why bother trying to reform the system that's killing the planet and wrecking the world for humans or any life. Your measurements tell me nothing other then how myopic people are as they cannot see beyond the lines drawn by the global destroyers. Count me and a lot of people out. I want nothing to do with propping up the continuance of this unreal reality. Bejesus what in your freaking charts leads you to think that reform of the Demorat's will ever do anything after living through the last decades. Give it up. It's dead as is the concept of democracy or thinking we can compromise with these global fuckers.
No thanks.
If the argument for helping somebody is "If you don't help us, things will be rigged so that we are your only choice anyway!" I'm out.
At a certain point, things are NOT salvageable. The Dems became that when instead of trying to fix what was wrong, they attacked the voters.
Fuck them, anyone who looks like them, the horse they road in on and the squirrel in their yard.
Edit: added a not in a very important place.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Look for every opportunity
I see a lot of people saying they will flat out not vote or support the Democratic Party. I believe that is a mistake. How you vote must be determined by what opportunities are presented in your locale for placing an actual progressive in office. In some cases, you will find that the Democratic candidate for Congress, state legislature, county commission, or town board is quite acceptable. In some cases, the person running for Congress may be a hopeless corporatist asswipe, but the down ticket candidates are pretty good. In some locales, there may be strong Green Party or Working Families Party organization that may have a good chance of getting their candidates elected.
And do not dismiss your local Democratic Party out of hand. I live in Orange County, NC, home of UNC Chapel Hill, and a rock solid Democratic Party stronghold. I would love to replace our Congressman, David Price, who is decent enough, but has literally blanched each time I have told him to his face that there will never be an economic recovery until Wall Street is destroyed. But there are dozens of people in the local Democratic Party who are very, very progressive. The thing is, there is a huge disconnect between the local Democratic Party, and the Party leadership at the state and national level. I have asked my state rep and a county commissioner how much input they have with Price. Not much. If they call, he will talk to them. But they seldom talk to him.
I think the path to follow is to quietly meet with your local Democrats and third parties, and assess their chances of actually getting people into office. In some places, you may find a better group of possible collaborators in something other than a political party. Perhaps a co-op, or a local indie paper, or a local chapter of Greenpeace or whatever. Then work on building a network or group within the party or group you choose in your locale. Then go into the 2018 elections with everything you can muster.
One thing that bothers the hell out of me is that I so rarely see any discussion of what has happened historically. Back in the 1870s through 1930s, there were usually a couple dozen members of the House who were third party: Greenback, Populist, People's Party. etc. I think there is a reason why the history of these parties is so inaccessible: their examples pose a significant danger to the status quo.
And also, there is seldom discussion of the history of The Grange, the Farmers Alliances, and the Non-Partisan League. These were the organizations that originated and promoted the regulatory legislation such as the ICC and the FDA. It sometimes took decades, but they were the first ones to propose such regulation. The story of The Grange and regulation of railroads and grain elevators in the 1870s and 1880s can now be pieced together on Google Books in books and legislative and congressional hearings from that period. The Grange, the Farmers Alliances, and the Non-Partisan League all basically "infiltrated" the establishment parties of their times. It didn't matter if it was the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, so long as the candidate running agreed to the economic principles of the The Grange, the Farmers Alliances, and the Non-Partisan League. I will force you to do some research here, and write that those economic principles were basically the Greenback critique of "the Money Power" as it was called at that time. Google the terms if you don't know this history.
And everyone should be steeped in at least one of these books:
The Populist Moment–A Short History of the Agrarian Revolt in America, by Lawrence Goodwyn, 1978
Political Prairie Fire: The Nonpartisan League, 1915-1922, by Robert L. Morlan, 1955
The Rich Don't Always Win: The Forgotten Triumph over Plutocracy that Created the American Middle Class, 1900-1970, by Sam Pizzigati, 2012
- Tony Wikrent
Nation Builder Books(nbbooks)
Mebane, NC 27302
2nbbooks@gmail.com
@Tony Wikrent
Thanks for the interesting and important historical information! I'd never heard of these, myself.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I guess what really niggles me
is that they didn't just lose the presidential election - they were HUMILIATED.
But that has not made a single dent in their arrogance. Is it habit? Are they just stupid?
Not a single reflective thought has been expressed by any of these people - they just toe the line and say it's "messaging". And Russia!
Where does this confidence come from, when every shred of reality screams that it is misplaced? All of the facts, and some of those facts are lawsuits, should leave no question: the people saw through them and their shenanigans and their shenanigans DID NOT WORK. So the new plan? More shenanigans. Have they even paused to try to add a little finesse? Not that I can see. They still think they are the sharpest knife in the drawer.
The shrinks need to redefine the conditions that produce cognitive dissonance because the Democratic Party should be swimming in it, and they are not.
@gustogirl
I've been wondering for some time if this outcome was planned, even if not initially, but as a contingency. I keep thinking of Baron Harkonnen talking of placing the Beast Raban over Arrakis and encouraging the utmost brutality being imposed upon the population - so that his appalling nephew would be welcomed as a saviour in the end. (Even if I've likely mispelled names in there; haven't read the books for some time and 'brain no good', lol.)
Even more pertinent - they now own the entire electoral system, via Homeland Security. Now they not only think they don't need real voters, they know that they don't. Just the patina of enough plausibility to avoid riots, for which they anyway have militarized police. Unless, of course, they realize that they're citizens, too, and that they're on the wrong side, against themselves and their country's Constitution, which is a major potential hazard for TPTB, both within civil forces and in the military.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
The only solution anymore
is mass movements, riots, etc. These people are too evil and entrenched for any sort of reform, especially if the Seth Rich story turns out to be true.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
@dervish
Totally agree on the mass movements, but fear that TPTB are hoping for riots as an excuse for martial law...
If the American people once start rioting, it'll have to be big and immediately knock out not only the corporate politicians but the corporate interests and billionaires interfering in public policy, no matter what is thrown at them. Once the paymasters are gone, those they're paying as goons will lose interest.
But I can't see that happening and would personally advocate for the pacific variety of protest/revolution, as eventually won in Bolivia.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
The corruption is baked in
It's ridiculous in a democracy to have all the hurdles in forming a new party. It takes big money to get on the ballot, to say nothing of appealing to voters. And if it takes big money, how do they get paid back ?
I think Bernie wanted to see real changes in his lifetime. He has never liked the D party but held his nose. It was the ONLY way for him to get any traction. Let's face it, he would have been getting single digits if he ran indy.
Honestly, the pressing issues of the day, particularly climate change, require immediate action. Trying to reform Democrats or starting from the ground up remain as daunting as ever. I'm not encouraged.
Just out of idle curiosity
I wish someone somewhere could quantify how many times the adverb phrase "holding (his, her, my, our) nose" is used as the modifier to describe voting or other association with Democrats by their own voters or members!
Aren't people tired of both writing and reading that as they slog off to the polls? How many other things does one do on a regular basis while holding one's nose? I have only one other activity in that category, and it's cleaning out the cat's litter box.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
@Phoebe Loosinhouse
Although the cats don't shit directly on you, making the litter-box far less repulsive than voting for corporate Dems.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
holding your nose
Cleaning my kitties' litter box doesn't cost me nearly one-tenth of the nose-holding it would take me to vote for a Clinton.
But, of course, what I feed my cats isn't sewage before it goes into the cats! The Clintons, on the other hand.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
My congresscritter and my assemblywoman are progressive
and I will support them any way I can but, as far as the DNC goes, they won't ever get a dime from me until they reform. America badly needs more choices when it comes to political parties. When I was a kid, I thought the parliamentary systems in Europe were an experiment in chaos but now I see their systems as inherently inclusive of other parties and other points of view which, in the long run, force their countries to be more progressive. While we can't have a parliament, we can, and should support candidates, no matter what party, who will represent and advocate for us.
The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.
We should at least try to reform the Whig Party
because the Democrats represent the slaveholders. So everyone join up! Here's the main website.
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
I agree on all points
Further, I'd add that the two strategies are not in competition with each other but rather they mutually support each other.
Every effort I make working on the outside to take votes away from Democrats is a bullet in the gun of the reformers. They will not change while winning. They probably won't change while losing either but it does apply pressure... pressure the reformers can leverage.
Every effort they make either succeeds in which I win or it fails in which case the corruption of the Democratic party just continues to be writ large for all the world to see.
I take some solace in the fact that the Democrats will probably win a few more times as the voters alternate from pillar to post looking for a safe harbor. But I think that dance is wearing thin and while they can make up whatever propaganda they want, it won't hold up against a hungry child or a sick relative.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard