Well this does seem awkward -Update w Biden response
From The Cut, which is a pub devoted to women's topics from their description.
A recounting from Lucy Flores, the 2014 female candidate for the office of Nevada Lt. Governor of her encounter with Joe Biden.
An Awkward Kiss Changed How I Saw Joe Biden
I found my way to the holding room for the speakers, where everyone was chatting, taking photos, and getting ready to speak to the hundreds of voters in the audience. Just before the speeches, we were ushered to the side of the stage where we were lined up by order of introduction. As I was taking deep breaths and preparing myself to make my case to the crowd, I felt two hands on my shoulders. I froze. “Why is the vice-president of the United States touching me?”
I felt him get closer to me from behind. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified. I thought to myself, “I didn’t wash my hair today and the vice-president of the United States is smelling it. And also, what in the actual fuck? Why is the vice-president of the United States smelling my hair?” He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head. My brain couldn’t process what was happening. I was embarrassed. I was shocked. I was confused. There is a Spanish saying, “tragame tierra,” it means, “earth, swallow me whole.” I couldn’t move and I couldn’t say anything. I wanted nothing more than to get Biden away from me. My name was called and I was never happier to get on stage in front of an audience.
Uncle Joe, add this to his documented list, the hits keep coming.
Biden 2020???
Update: A statement from Biden’s spokesman.
Vice President Biden was pleased to support Lucy Flores’s candidacy for Lt. Governor of Nevada in 2014 and to speak on her behalf at a well-attended public event.Neither then, nor in the years since, did he or the staff with him at the time have an inkling that Ms. Flores had been at any time uncomfortable, nor do they recall what she describes.
But Vice President Biden believes that Ms. Flores has every right to share her own recollections and reflections, and that is a change for better in our society that she has the opportunity to do so. He respects Ms. Flores as a strong and independent voice in our politics and wishes her only the the best.
Recap: "I deny everything, but I allow you to recall whatever you do. Bless You."
I like the word "inkling" , don't you?
Comments
Biden's spent his long career ...
... racking up "special moments" like this. So much baggage. And what does he bring to the table? His face in the background of a lot of pictures of Obama.
No wonder the Obama faction has found themselves a new front man.
Biden's candidacy will be a magnificent swan dive from the high board into an empty swimming pool.
EDIT: Is it too soon to start asking where Biden's supporters will go when he inevitably drops out?
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Wait a sec ...
she didn't wash her hair? What's wrong with her?
Thank you, thank you, this has been your MSNBC minute.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Not a word on CNN or from the Russia talking heads.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I have an inkling
he will soon fade from view. She cannot be the only one he’s “touched” before.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
You asked
The Best Of Joe Biden: 7 Of His Most Creepy Moments
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
Jeff sessions swatting Bidens hand away
From his grandchild goes beyond describing Biden's behavior as "creepy Joe" and enters into territory where I question if there isn't something more concerning about his "touching" going on here.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I didn't see swatting
or creepy conduct by Uncle Joe. It looked more like Beauregard was merely swiping something out of the girl's hair.
I'm sure it's a number
that is far in excess of the 5-6 touchees for Al Franken. Joe has always been a touchy-feely guy.
If it's not the women, it's Joe's mouth that will doom him. Gaffes galore, and he can't seem to stop saying nice things about R office holders.
The women, the mouth, and the checkered track record in Congress, with plenty of high-profile votes or decisions that won't play well this election cycle.
No predictions, but for someone protected for so long by the party and the MSM, there will have to be more women coming forward, and probably with stories involving more than just a touch on the shoulder or kiss on the head, before he is history. Kirsten Gillibrand, Klobuchar or Kamala Harris would seem acceptable backup alternatives for the Biden voter.
Gaffes my left foot.
what the MSM and Dems call gaffes seem to be more like “accidentally telling the truth”. That’s Biden’s biggest problem. He’s bad at lying and sticking to a story. Can you imagine him “debating” Trump? It would be entertaining at least.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
generally, "accidentally telling the truth" is the essence of
a "gaffe".
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
And sometimes there
are just the howlers. Like the time in 2008 or 12 when at a campaign rally somewhere he was noting all the local notables, then he mentioned one in particular he saw out in the crowd: "Hey Buddy, stand up, let everybody see ya." Turns out that Buddy was paralyzed and confined to a wheelchair, so standing up would have been difficult at best, which Biden either was not aware of or just forgot.
And then all the jaw-dropping plagiarism from his disastrous 2008 race -- repeated instances of unattributed stealing of quotes from, mostly, RFK, and most memorably from Neil Kinnock's personal life. I mean, there's plagiarism then there is Biden grand-larceny theft. Stealing from another guy's personal life story. "Why am I the only Biden in a thousand years to go to university? ..."
"entertaining" is the best
one could give him for a debate with Donald. Joe would do his back-slapping Mr Bipartisan Pol thing and say something like : "I've had the opportunity to meet Donald privately on several occasions. He's actually a very nice guy. So is Vice President Pence. We just happen to disagree on a few issues, but I like him. I know my liberal friends don't like me to say that, but it's true."
Just that video of him
with some sort of death grip on HRC was disgusting.
dfarrah
Yes, touching her makes me shudder to think about it
I'd sooner stick my hand in an unflushed toilet.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
She's being gaslighted and hammered on social media
and her character called into question because she came forward.
So much for believing victims of sexual assault.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Believe all women...
except when it interferes with the political narrative.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
I have some feminist cred and I believe that some women
have lied about rape, let alone lack of boundaries and/or general creepiness. In some instances, they've confessed to that later, as did the woman whose story got Emmett Till butchered, or they have been indisputably exposed. However, Joe's habits have been well document by videos and photos.
While I am heartened by the #metoo movement, its extremes are disturbing. I recently read a column about the next to last season of The Ranch, a netflix original series starring and produced by That Seventies Show alums, Ashton Kutcher and Danny Masterson.
Masterson had been accused of sexual assault; and, at this stage, I have no reason to doubt it. I can certainly imagine someone who achieved his degree of success at such a young age having an over-developed sense entitlement to hit on whomever he fancies. And his own show kicked him off after the accusations were made. I'm fine with that, too. All show business contracts contain clauses that allow that, even before anything is proven and even if the show business personality did nothing to attract bad publicity.
What I found chilling: The author was furious that, in the show, no body (of Masterson's character was found. Why the fury? The author was livid that the writers had left the door open for Masterson to return to the show IN THE EVENT MASTERSON IS ULTIMATELY PROVEN INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES.
If that bit doesn't make your blood run cold, please contact a professional--a lawyer, a shrink, a teacher of history or Constitutional law or philosophy or morals or ethics, a minister--almost any professional, really.
The fury and complete
lack of rationality is making me think lately that I don't want any dem near any office.
A lot of them genuinely scare me. I have no doubt, from the inflammatory comments I've seen, that they would dump the Constitution and all western jurisprudence. From the Trump-Russia to Smollett, far too many of them believe that justice depends on what they personally want. And far too many of them embody every ism they themselves decry.
dfarrah
That’s turned me off re the German Green and Left scene as well.
Edited to add:
For example, the Berlin city government, a so-called “R2G” or “red-red-green” coalition of Social Democrats, Left Party, and Greens, has ruled that it’s okay for private schools to refuse to admit children or expel already-enrolled children for no other reason than that their parents are active in the right-wing populist Alternative for Germany (AfD) party.
If this were the other way around — a right-wing Berlin city government legalizing private-school discrimination against children with “progressive” or “intersectional” activist parents — you’d never hear the end of it.
It seems that, for a lot of my former political allies, the whole point of winning is to be able to do to “Them” what we’re always claiming “They” want to do to us.
I doubt that in US private schools, kids of left
leaning parents would ever get into those elite private schools. To be an honest-down-to-earth left-leaning parent, you probably would not belong to the very, very rich elite, and kids that don't have the parents of that elite, usually don't have the finances and with it the connections to get into private schools. (of course there is always that one exception that is non-white and poor and gets in ... it looks better that way)
So whatever it is, it's pretty bad everywhere. I think one should be prepared and expect that one can feel betrayed by any one political party, politician or activist. It's more the problem that one single individual seldom has the personal experience to feel betrayed by many different players, especially if the political players are from multi-cultural and multi-racial/ethnic and multi-national backgrounds.
PS: with regards to throw some sort of misconduct against folks running for office, I get tired of those accusations. It seems you can wait for a woman coming forward to accuse that person of 'creepy' behavior that happened to them twenty years ago or so. In the past I never doubted those 'victims' narratives, but during the last couple of years, I have the feeling you can wait for those accusations like clockwork. They come pretty much for certain. And the holy twitter makes it possible to spread the story without much danger to the 'victim'.
Tired of bullshit. Have they tried this with Sanders yet? "Heh, Bernie, better you admit your sins in public NOW for what your hands might have done forty years ago... My advice, Bernie, your hands making a fist preemptively prevents them from wandering around softly to the wrong places. That is not to say that I would think you need that advice. Go Bernie go, go places, Bernie, with your feet that is ...
/tired snark/tired female non-victim/tired of BS.
I wouldn't fall for AfD folks sneaky shenanigans, but your YMMV.
https://www.euronews.com/
Place in question was a Waldorf school, not an elite prep school
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldorf_education
https://www.taz.de/Kommentar-Waldorfschule-und-AfD/!5556591/
I accept AfD supporters on the same basis as I accept the more-than-a-few college classmates of mine who went on to careers as
war criminalscorrupt cronies of the extremely richrespected politicians in state and U.S. governments.My whole life has been spent falling for Americans’ shenanigans — even if I accepted your framing of the danger of being duped, at this point what difference are a few Saxons in the mix gonna make?
Don't misunderstand me ... please
I don't think that is is legal, constituional or morally acceptable to expel children from a school for the only reason that their parents are AfD or whatever kind of party's members.
I just happen to be reminded of what is going on in US private schools and couldn't resist to compare. I just thought in my mind of what might be better or worse, not getting into a private school or being thrown out of a private school for any frigging reason.
https://www.euronews.com/
Ouch! those punches
hurt!
dfarrah
Whom did I punch?
regarding US private schools I believe I stated facts as I observed them.
https://www.euronews.com/
I think it was snark, mimi
But I can't be certain.
As to your point of colleges in the US, I have a box of recruitment material from colleges and universities from all over the US, that began arriving for my son during second semester of his freshman year in high school. Harvard sent an entire packet, while some schools only sent postcards. Several schools sent stuff quarterly. He's white, but we were always poor, never receiving any child support, living in a shelter once, and on the dining room floor of a friend's apartment another time. Oh, and several people in my past have revealed that they thought I was black before meeting me, after seeing my written first name. So, you may have a point there. Except, we're forced to tick off a box for race on virtually all paperwork, so on paper we're white, despite my name. In real life, we glow in the dark we're so white -- we're both gingers.
I cannot imagine a world where his hard work would be dismissed, and he could be expelled, based on my political beliefs or activity. This mama bear would be pissed! What a travesty.
you touch on so many 'peculiarities'
in this case I have to say that I thought lotlizard spoke of 'private high schools', and not of colleges (we don't have that category in Germany, everything after high school is called universities and US college level education is integrated in the first three years of German universities).
I didn't mean to address the issue of how and who gets into private US colleges. I meant my comment to relate to private US high schools. Though catholic private US high schools, whose social mission is stronger than their adherence to ethnicity and class, imo, I stick to my pov to the rest of US private high schools. Those accepts pupils by connection, social class, financial prowess etc, whereby they always accept 'some poorer and not so white kids', pretty much for the statistics to look good. May be that is too harsh a judgement, but that is how it felt to me. If you mix ethnicity of the students they accept, it gets more 'mashed potato-like'.
The Waldorf Schools in Germany are primary, middle and high schools. They are not 'elite private high schools for the social well-off middle class or rich folks'. I think they are very liberal and concerned to be non-manipulative and less authoritarian than the public high schools in Germany.
As to what ethnicity or race or religion you belong to or you decide to declare yourself to belong to, my response to lotlizard was more a direct reaction to her, knowing that somehow she was living and/or raised in Hawaii without knowing what her ethnicity is. Therefore I posted the statistics of the census for Tulsi Gabbards congressional district for example.
People in Hawaii always end up asking what my son is. They don't know what he is, as he looks to many as black, to others as white with sun-burn, and to the rest as somehow a mixture with Phillipino or native American blood in him. When he tells them he is a mixture of a white German and a black African and not raised as an Afro-American in the US and that he had no ties to or was not embedded into US families of the US black or US white communities, people mostly then are a bit surprised. All there is then for them to say that 'this is very interesting' and the conversation comes to an end, as there isn't much else to say anyway... isn't it ?
I guess I have some antennas with regards to ethnic, social and ideological issues that are a little hyper sometimes.
I have a problem to decide what to do with regards to extreme right-wingers in Germany. If you aren't pushing back on their clearly ethnicity -based xenophobic propaganda, you could be accused of letting them grow unopposed. If you push back, then you are too authoritarian and not enough respectful of their freedom of speech. Sometimes that inner conflict for me makes me impatient and I tend to push back and risk to be accused of being a 'freedom of speech violator'.
But then, as lotlizard says, what are a few Saxons or few Northern German folks, having to do with all of that. Well, I think if it concerns Germany, we have quite something to do with all of that. But it gets mixed up, when an American lives in Germany and a German lives in the US and is half a German or half an American thinking being.
Hope that clarifies it a bit.
Peace for all of us.
https://www.euronews.com/
Thanks, mimi
I did not realize it was about private high schools. My bad.
"What is he?"
I was asked that about a friend of mine years ago. She had the most gorgeous black hair and dark skin. She was Comanche, and gorgeous. I've tried finding her online but have forgotten how to spell her first name, which was an unusual name. I also only know her married last name from 20+ years ago.
I can only imagine how difficult it is to be from another country and live in the US. It has to somewhat of a culture shock. My friend from Munich came to Texas on business (I drove up from Houston to visit him in Dallas, a city I'm unfamiliar with), and he had a rent car with gps, which got us to a Wal-Mart. When we started to go back to his hotel, the gps would not come back on. Between the two of us, we found our way back, but I don't know if I could have done that alone in another country, where the signs are not in my native language, especially!
gps (google maps) in the mobile phone where you can
choose the language of the narrator who gives you the direction to where you want to drive...
It works fine.
The only thing I give google credit for.
https://www.euronews.com/
We didn't think of that lol
The dash-mounted gps would not come back on, so we did it the old fashioned way -- lots of "we took a left here, coming, so we need to take a right. Oh yes, there's that weird looking building, on the opposite side of the highway now, we got this."
If I ever go visit him, I'll take your advice, so thank you!
Yes, they have
I remember reading a claim that he had wandering hands like Biden. Don't remember where. Somewhere on line.
It's so easy to claim without any proof. The dogma is "women don't lie about things like that". How about it ladies? Were you all born with angel's wings?
Reminds me of the Kavanaugh debacle. The public never heard his views on the Constitution, nor a review of his past decisions. No, the Dems had to turn the hearings into a circus about two drunken teenagers at a frat party forty years ago. Makes me wonder if that wasn't their intent and some big donors wanted their corporate stooge confirmed without a close look,
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I like to think all children are born with angel wings
Are all men rapists and creepy groping Uncle Joes or H.W. Bushes? Of course not. On the same token, all women aren't liars, either.
As for lack of proof, opportunists are called opportunists for a reason. Most criminals aren't flagrant in their actions, and when they are, they usually still try to hide their identities and/or destroy evidence. If accused, they lie.
I'm not sure what people expect Creepy Uncle Joe's victims of his unwanted touching to do -- the ones on film are there for all to see, yet some people just say, "Meh, he's always been touchy-feely."
There's a fine line we're delegated to walk, apparently. The video of the wife of some guy getting sworn in is an example. Was she supposed to turn around and knock the shit out of Creepy in the middle of the ceremony that was being filmed? Was she supposed to scream NO! and run away in the middle of the ceremony that was being filmed? If she had done either, she'd have been labeled an overly sensitive uppity bitch. He's always been "touchy-feely" after all.
I don't doubt that our most recent SCOTUS was a 'boys will be boys' kind of obnoxious teenager, and I believe something probably happened at that party 40 years ago (rape was never an accusation). What I do not believe is that the incident caused the victim lifelong trauma, necessitating a secondary door in her home. I read somewhere (dunno where anymore), that her shrink had an office on the 2nd floor of the house she (victim) actually lived in; and, the house was strictly zoned as residential only. How convenient! No mention of a 2nd door being installed at every house or apartment she ever lived in over the past 40 years, so I call bullshit on the lifelong trauma since the extra door is what she claimed proved it.
I wholeheartedly agree that it was likely an orchestrated shit show in order to distract from his past rulings, though I seem to recall the msm occasionally name dropping when it came to those he worked under in the past.
Let's face it, evey single one of us has done something stupid in our past, and even some men here have claimed that "all men" see an attractive woman and want fuck her (they're obviously hetero), so I guess claiming that this candidate or that candidate did something sexually inappropriate back in the past isn't a far stretch, unless you believe no men are capable or have never experienced that or at least heard it from other male friends/acquaintances. Add in the perception thing (Joe's groping seen as innocent as opposed to inappropriate or the drunken teens at a party in an isolated part of the house where boys will be boys with a whore who never should have been there vs being too trusting/ignorant of what could happen), and people who never question what the talking heads say, and presto -- you've got yourself the perfect outrage storm.
Imo, we are all born with proverbial angel wings. Then society and our environments helps to make us into what we eventually become. Some become liars and rapists. Some don't.
We're also not going to have video evidence every time some asshole decides he or she is going to force their wishes on another person. Hell, even when we do, we get told "he's just a touchy-feely" guy, or the cop was "in fear for his life", etc.
Well, I'll admit to trying to remove panties
when I was a teenager. When I got a "NO", with or without being struck, I stopped.
Twice I got lucky and no, not a terrified victim too frightened to complain. Some women are horny too. Too bad we can't be open and admit what we want. It would make things easier for both those who want to and those who don't. The worst things were those idiotic rules that said "nice girls" say no when they mean yes. They just suborned rape.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Agree
Communication is key. And yes, even women can be horny. Some of us even like sex lol, and men, but don't tell anyone.
When a couple has good communication, a simple look can mean yes. But they know each other well, before that's a safe bet. Unfortunately, some people misread politeness as flirting. It's a sick/sad joke with my female coworker. 'Oh shit! You smiled -- assume the position -- on your back and grab your own ankles.'
If people could keep their hands and body parts to themselves, especially with people they don't know, it would be great. That's for women too. UntimelyRippd has a story of a woman invading his personal space. She later apologized, so she read his body language and reaction, but she shouldn't go around surprise touching people. It might be okay with her family, but it's unprofessional with coworkers and acquaintances, and makes people feel uncomfortable and awkward.
Communication, is what we need, I agree.
as i posted a couple of days ago,
an evil, loathsome, amoral, unethical subverter of democracy who is running for a seat on the wisconsin state supreme court sits on the board of a private christian elementary school that expels kids if they or the parents are gay or transsexual.
[EDIT: i should clarify that i don't know whether any expulsions have ever taken place. rather, it is policy, requiring a confirming statement by the parents, that children of such families are not admitted/permitted to attend.]
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Someone should remind those "Christians"
that Jesus broke bread and communed with prostitutes, publicans and other sinners. However, he did not with Scribes, Pharisees and other hypocrites.
Not that I'm calling being gay sinful, but they do.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
They have already dumped much of the bill of rights.
True. nt
dfarrah
Didn't you know?
Only Republicans assault.
/s
Of course!
You mean Ms. Flores, a Hispanic Democratic woman with political aspirations, did not tell fellow Democrat and then Vice President Biden how very uncomfortable his inhaling her hair deeply and then kissing her head for more than "a quick peck" time made her? Shocker!
Who could believe such a thing? My guess IS that the answer to that question is: any woman who has been sexually harassed in any way at all and to any degree at all, especially by someone more powerful in any way than she, and most especially when it involves not only her physical and emotional integrity, but also her ongoing career hopes and aspirations.
Someone, like, oh, I don't know, Anita Hill, just to pull a name out of the ether randomly.
Why, yes, she does have that right. It's called the First Amendment in the Bills of Rights, ratified in 1789. Way to try to seem like an au courant supporter of women! Very impressive.
In light of something discussed here recently, . . .
. . . it's interesting to see that a diary at TOP on this very story (yeah, I went there to search for something else), that was on the Rec List this morning and has had considerable commentary since then, has disappeared from said Rec List so a diary with ten recs (and two more by staff members with thirty recs each) can replace it.
Just in case anybody had any doubt that (a) the algorithm for the TOP Rec List is subject to admin manipulation, or (b) that any story targeting the centristiest of the centrists can and will be removed from sight. I'd always thought that letting dK staff members post their diaries on the community side was kinda hinky, but now it seems pretty clear that's to make sure that community side looks just as owned as the Front Page side.
FYI
I didn't piggyback this story off of TOP. Am surprised by what you say. So they're tubing Biden in favor of "jail-the-truant's-parents" Kamillary?
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
Oh, I know.
You and igualdad are both just coming off the original source.
I was just pointing out that we had a clear-cut example of the behind-the-curtain gaming of the establishment blogs that Battle of Blair Mountain has described.
And I suspect TOP is hedging its bets on Kamala; they'll be happy with any conservadem.
I have a theory
TPTB have always controlled society through sexual repression. Unsanctioned sex has always been punished, and the license to engage in unsanctioned sex has always been a perk of the high social (economic) status.
Then came the birth control pill. (that's why it was called "women's liberation") Suddenly a woman could say yes without fear. (and yes, men tried to take selfish advantage - all liberty has it's excesses, at least at first)
But TPTB could not allow that. Enter Gloria Steinam and the wage gap. Suddenly it was no longer about women's liberation, it was about oppression. (note that to work there had to be at least some truth, and in this case there was a lot of truth)
From there next came Andrea Dwarken and Catherine MacKinnon. (Dwarken was totally legitimate, a victim of a lifetime of abuse. MacKinnon IMHO is a crusader, which is a guarded way of saying a demagogue)Now things have gone beyond full circle. The answer to "Will you have sex with me?" has gone from "If I think you're worthy." to the answer to "What time is it?" has become "GET AWAY YOU PERVERT!" TPTB have won, at least for now. Sanity will return, and it will be better than where it started from, but it will take time.
My first instinct was to defend Biden. It looked like normal fatherly political photo op behavior. But there are too many, too off camera, and too many children. Say that the boundaries are being drawn too far, but there are boundaries, and Biden is way beyond the pale.
On to Biden since 1973
Dworkin may have been "legitimate" in the sense that
her very serious psychological problems had a straightforward basis in her personal history.
That fact does not legitimize her actual opinions -- e.g., that all men want to rape their own sons. Her opinions, founded as they were in psychological trauma, were (and remain in posterity) ludicrous delusions.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
We'll see if this even matters....
#MeToo seems like nothing but a social-media mind-plague turned political weapon.
Was this the place I heard about Cory Booker's alleged incident with a man up against a restroom wall?
"I don't like mobs. In my opinion, if you need one to get what you want, it's not worth getting."
- Constable Odo, STAR TREK: Deep Space Nine
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Biden came from a time it was okay to be huggy
Hugging people is one thing. Putting ones hands close to women's breasts is another. People are coming out of the woods to excuse Joe. How long until Hillary looks up from her walk in the woods to do it too?
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Good lord
And hugs are fine as long as they're consensual. I'm not a hugger. I have to know you very well before I'll hug you. And you'll know I want one because I'll have my arms out or will flat out ask if I can hug you.
Had a creepy man try that creepy forced hug shit after meeting him once before, at work. At second meeting, he felt entitled enough to, very quickly, put his arm around my back, wrap his hand around my right shoulder and begin to forcefully draw me, face first, to his chest. I had to put my palm on his chest, stiffen my arm and push myself away from him. I also, loudly pronounced, "I don't hug!" The lady behind the snack bar counter (I work at a community college) said, all shocked sounding, "You don't hug?"
He has never touched me again, and he better not. I won't be so nice next time, and there will be a police report, along with at least an attempt at a restraining order.
There are other "huggers" in his department. My coworker has pointed them out. When they creep around our offices, we call each other so it looks like we're busy, and they go away.
Someone should tell the idiot in the tweet that times have changed, and if someone wants him to touch them, they'll offer a hand to shake, or open arms for hugging. He's so gross, and that woman is an idiot.
An idiot for sure
It's amazing how many people are coming out from wherever they have been hiding to defend Joe isn't it? When's the last time we heard from Peggy?
And it's not just that one incident. I posted a link to a series of tweets on Biden's grabby hands. There were over 20 videos of him doing that and it wasn't subtle. So go ahead and run Joe. This isn't going anywhere. Plus there are all the legislation he got passed to show how he has never been for we the people.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
I've seen the videos, unfortunately
He's gross.
It is interesting, how he's being defended, and by whom. You like Twitter. Maybe you could look up who's doing it, and then see what they had to say about the kavenaugh (sp?) thing, as well as the pussy grabbing by Trump. If you find them, grab screen shots lol, because they might disappear down the memory hole.
As Steven said previously
Flores is being gaslighted over this. Just like it's now acceptable to say bad things about that Tulsi woman who is running for president, it's acceptable to say things about women who claim things like this. I don't mind people having an opinion on something, but when they just change it depending on who says something then they are nothing more than hypocrites. The things people are saying about Tulsi is something they would never have said about Hillary. Can you imagine Andrea Mitchell calling Hillary idiotic? Her career would have been over before she got off the air. But Soledad o'Brian said that about Tulsi after she said that Mueller has stated Trump didn't collude with Vlad and it's time to move on and talk about issues like the economy. Idiotic? Nah.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
i am not cool with physical contact,
especially with persons of the opposite sex. it might be partially generational -- i mean, we really grew up SO segregated by gender, and me more than many, for various reasons.
one time in my twenties i violated my own boundaries at a group ice skating event, where we had encouraged beginners to come on out and skate with us. it was an indoor rink, and most of us were in our mid to late 20s, hale and hearty, so people weren't necessarily all bundled up in coats. at one point, i saw a woman several feet away from me lose her balance -- she was about to do the scary thing where your heels slip up under you, your legs to a bit of windmill, and you come down hard, either on your tailbone or your wrist or (shudder) your elbow, or worst of all your head. she had her back to me, so i took two quick steps and caught her by the waist with just my hands, right at the bottom of her ribs, on both sides. i had to squeeze pretty tight to make sure i didn't lose my grip, or for that matter fall over myself; and she was wearing a relatively thin sweater, so the whole thing was rather more physically intimate than it might otherwise have been.
it was clearly a very uncomfortable moment for both of us. she was married to one of my colleagues, so i didn't know her very well. i remember her turning around to see who had grabbed her, with some confusion as well as definitely a bit of reflexive get-your-fucking-hands-off-me anger. i just half-smiled and shrugged, and she skated off with a friend, without saying anything.
it was so weird -- even though there's no doubt that i did the right thing -- that i just do not comprehend how other people (e.g., grabby joe) don't sense exactly how inappropriate such contact normally is. a few years ago, a woman 30 years my junior came up to me at work (we do not work in the same group, or even on the same floor, but we had conversed often at various work-social doings) to ask me something while i was talking to someone else. she came up from behind and to the side, put her hand on my shoulder, and asked me the question, and i just turned halfway towards her and looked at her hand with mild surprise. she quickly took it away, and we had a brief discussion and that was that. a couple of days later we crossed paths, and she apologized for violating my personal space, which was decent enough of her and all, but at the point when your hand is on someone's shoulder, it isn't about space anymore. that's a level of physical familiarity that i reserve for people i know really well, and like a lot.
funny thing about it is that although she's a wonderful, upstanding citizen, hard worker, diligent parent (including becoming a stepmom when she was about 23), army reservist, blah blah, her politics are absolutely appalling (of course she was raised by rural evangelicals), and i started really avoiding her not long after that incident. like, i don't sit at a table if she's there, i don't bother to say hi, etc ... and i sometimes wonder whether she's noticed, and if so, whether she incorrectly thinks it was because of that one silly moment with her hand on my shoulder!
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
They HAVE to know
They (creepy Joes) have to know . We're not talking about people with learning disabilities.
What blows my mind is that they act as if the reaction of frozen shock from the unwitting recipients of their surprise touching, er, um, "being supportive" or "being friendly" is a good thing.
How can someone stiffening up when you touch them be construed by the one doing the touching as a perfectly normal response, unless the "toucher" has something wrong with them?
Remember this? Her body language says it all, almost. Her nervous smile afterward shows us how it is. Don't make a big deal of it or you'll be seen as overly sensitive, not one of the guys. Except that he didn't do that to any of "the guys", only to her. He zoned in on her, it appears, as he walked into the room. His seat was on the other side of the table.
[video:https://youtu.be/i4wKg2Ddoas]
.
They have to know.
I just left a Twitter thread on Biden's hands
Lots of people are defending him bigly. Some women are being the most vicious towards Flores. Telling her that it was just a kiss on the back of her head and she shouldn't have felt uncomfortable. Others are saying what Peggy said. He's from another era and it was acceptable back then.
Then there's all the people who are saying that she is only doing this so that Bernie will win. I guess this is the new WMDs distraction since Russia Gate has flobbed.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
they for sure know and know that
most will 'pretend to overlook and ignore it' it and not hold them hand-holders accountable for their creepy hands in public. So, for me the problem is only, that women, who experienced some creepy hands touching their body somewhere, won't protest openly about it when it actually happens, but might come up with it, when those creepy hands reach out for political offices thirty years later. These women are not wrong, just they are too late in their 'coming out'.
https://www.euronews.com/
you can be sure Merkel didn't forget those creepy hands
and her facial expressions after that tell you something about her that I value positively. Clearly pissed off, but clearly not saying a word. Just may be a little eye-roll, even not that. Making hand movements to turn the moment into something like a joke.
Well, we were supposed to be 'either with
us /themor 'againstus/them', when it comes to terrorism, but where are we supposed to be with regards to 'creepy hands', that is the Faustian question: To be or nor to be (at the wrong places), right?Russiagate and creepy wandering hands - can only be considered a joke, if it weren't involving Presidents and Presidential candidates, whose hands could push the nuclear bombs' buttons.
I need a nap now.
https://www.euronews.com/
Well, which is it? Say something or not say a word?
About Merkel, you say this:
But before that, you say this:
I think your contradiction puts the predicament that women (and some men) face when some asshole decides to force their wishes on them in perfect light. Don't say a word -- why didn't you say something when it actually happened?
I personally think it should be addressed immediately, but having been raised to be a compliant female, who's not supposed to be rude or hurt other people's feelings, I can see why some don't say a word. If they hear about a particular person later on, the memory of the incident(s) with that person comes to mind, and they say something to someone.
If I saw in the news or read online that the rapist who took my virginity was running for office, you can bet your ass I'd be telling my story even though only my best friend from high school was told the day after it happened. I never even confronted the asshole who did it, even though I had to be around him in school, seeing/feeling his jeering eyes on me every day.
Do we stay regal and silent, or do we scream like banshees? It seems, we're damned if we do (crazy/overly sensitive/you should have known better), and damned if we don't (you must be lying since you didn't scream like a crazy loon the moment it happened).
I think it's a matter of what actually was done to you,
in which position you were, when it happended and why you thought you didn't speak up.
A rape is a rape and no matter how it happened and where you were at in your life's timeline, it needs to be taken to the police, confirmed in writing and then you can decide how far further you go to bring the perpertrator to justice. But a rape needs to be confirmed by the police and a medical doctor. At least I believe it should be that way. Because it never happened to me, I don't know how realistic it is to get the confirmation of a rape into a folder of a doctors and police file. You need proof so, that if at a later point you want to go public about the incidence, it can not be handled as a 'he said, she said" thingy. At least I hope it would help to show your intergrity in telling the truth out of honorable motives.
If it is an inappropriate touching of some creepy man's hand, I think you should put the man into stopping him doing what he is doing by loudly complaining immediately. It's appropriate to give him a public slap on the wrist, so to speak. That is necessary.
What to do if it is your employer or superior? Complain and say it loudly. Mock or ridicule the guy. But you have to do it, when it happens, not later, first telling someone in private, because then it becomes a 'he said she said' thingy after the fact. And of course nobody cares either and the superior can grin and wwalk on. An employer or superior might have superiors himself and they don't want to deal with those creepy hands' someone beneath them, messing up the reputation of their business.
What if you yourself were in public office and something weird would happen to you like in the case of Merkel? I guess these days cameras are everywhere, recording the incidence, and the media not being capable to keep such an incidence to themselves and spreading it through the intertubes, is sufficient. Not reacting as Merkel did (which does not mean she was not pissed) is acceptable. Every one in Germany has seen the scene and guess what, I doubt there are many who thought GWB is a cool dude for doing that.
Being on a red carpet and Mr. Creepy Hands Biden, wandering to places they shouldn't, would be difficult to handle, but calmly making a guesture that clearly shows that you wouldn't want that hand on your body without saying a word, might do the trick.
Let's say for some reason GWBush had a mental health issue and actually tried to strangle Markel with his creepy hands tightening her jugular, I bet you the creepy hands of our cool Mr. Biden would have wrestled with GWBush to get him off the jugular of Merkel. So, now we even would have a creepy hero and all has a happy end... (this is just try to make you laugh a little)
Just my 0.02 cents of someone who hasn't had such painful experiences. So, please foregive me, if I cross over as too smug. Weighing what to do is a matter of courage and balance.
I know that in the US military there are some regulations to advises female soldiers. who get touched by male soldiers or a soldier who overstepped the line of the female soldiers private space. They are supposed to shout out very loudly a certain code sentence, so that everyone can hear it. It seemed to work. The fear of being 'caught' makes them soldiers hands stay put.
Amd now I shut up, because I don't have a real clue. Thanks for forcing me to think it over and respond.
https://www.euronews.com/
Thanks for the reply
It does depend on person/circumstance, and it seems like there is no acceptable way to deal with it that won't piss off half the population. Too bad it just doesn't stop. If people would just keep their hands and body parts to themselves, this would be a very rare thing, but they don't. Some women still think it's acceptable to slap a man if they're arguing, but men and boys are told to "never hit a woman". So weird. No one should be hitting anyone.
I also considered cultural differences after reading your reply. Some Europeans greet with the double cheek sort of kiss. People in New Orleans stand very close to each other while standing in line. (An old friend called that Mardi Gras-itis, explaining they are so used to packing the streets during Mardi Gras, with strangers touching full body all around, that waiting in line for a beer is no different.) I've noticed that people from Mexico stand closer than most of the Americans I've known.
If GWB had wrapped his fingers around Merkel's neck, I'd like to think no one around that table would have remained seated and maybe Putin would have used his super lethal training to at least kick W's creepy little ass lol. Too bad we don't know what all those men around the table thought of our idiot W after he did that!
I can very well imagine
why one doesn't resist openly. It's dangerous to do and it's a dilemma. Especially in cases were the victim is so young. I am pretty sure I wouldn't have had the guts, if it happened to me. I had my issues I never talked in public about, though I walked my convictions, I never had the nerves to explain why I did what I did. I was silent to protect myself and others. So, whatever, no matter what you do, it's painful to you or to others.
I am glad we talked. Thanks.
https://www.euronews.com/