Welcome to Saturday's Potluck - 2-25-2023

“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”
Pablo Picasso

Progress once again seems to be happening in my slow forced move to Idaho.

Greater Idaho resolution passes Idaho House; calls for talks with Oregon over moving border Oregonlive Feb 17, 2023

With a wink and a smirk the Idaho House of Representatives on Wednesday passed a nonbinding memorial calling for formal talks between the Idaho and Oregon legislatures to discuss moving some rural Oregon counties out of their state and into Idaho.

The proposal is rooted in the so-called Greater Idaho movement, which seeks to include about 11 counties, or 63% of Oregon’s landmass, within Idaho’s borders because proponents of the plan think eastern Oregon is more politically and culturally aligned with Idaho than Oregon’s larger progressive cities in the western part of the state.
...
Rep. Ned Burns, D-Bellevue, criticized legislators for working on the proposal, saying they are backing a far-fetched plan to help Oregon residents at a time when the Idaho Legislature has not yet set any of Idaho’s 2024 state budget or passed property tax reduction acts that Idahoans have said in public surveys should be a top legislative priority.

Even Rep. Lance Clow, R-Twin Falls, who voted for the memorial to encourage discussion, expressed his doubts.

“The reality is, I don’t believe this will ever happen,” Clow said.

In the end, the Idaho House voted 41-28 to adopt the memorial.

If you are interested in forcing assisting in my relocation to Idaho the donation page for Greater Idaho Org is ready for your financial assistance.

We can accept funds or stock from in or out-of-state, from corporations, and from overseas, because we do not engage in federal elections. There is no cap on the amount you are allowed to give. Business owners are welcome to give directly from their corporation rather than from their pocket.

On to other world news and territorial disputes.

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A little encouraging news.

China says it can now power almost every home with clean energy Russia Times February 21, 2023

China’s wind and solar power generation surged last year and is now almost equal to household demand for electricity, the National Energy Administration (NEA) announced on Monday. However, the share of residential intake is only a fraction of overall consumption, meaning that the Asian country is still heavily reliant on fossil fuels.

In 2022, wind and solar energy production soared 21% to 1,190 terawatt-hours (TWh) of electricity, according to the NEA.

Despite the surge in Chinese wind and solar power installations and generation, only 17% of electricity use in the country was classified as residential in 2020, while industry accounts for around 60% of all electricity demand, according to the International Energy Agency.

Beijing is ramping up the rollout of solar and wind capacity in line with its ambitious plans to produce 33% of its electricity from renewable sources by 2025 in order to reduce carbon emissions. At least 30 Chinese provinces have unveiled more renewable installation programs.

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A little old news to provide prospective to today's challenges.

Kissinger’s 1971 move: A warning for America’s Asian allies Asia Times February 23, 2023

Before the Ukrainians get too giddy over US President Joe Biden’s promise that the United States will stand by their country until its fight for freedom is won, they should remember how steadfast the US was in defending the freedom of the South Vietnamese and the Afghans.

In particular, Biden as a young senator did not support aid to the South Vietnamese nationalists. Nor did he vote to accept refugees from South Vietnam in 1975. On April 23, 1975, Senator Biden said: “The United States has no obligation to evacuate one, or 100,001, South Vietnamese.”

And in Afghanistan, Biden used a draft peace agreement to abandon his allies to their enemies.
...
The cowardly precedent set by Henry Kissinger in his secret negotiations with Hanoi, which I have just revealed in my new book Kissinger’s Betrayal (RealClear Publishing), should give pause to America’s Asian allies, challenged as they are by President Xi Jinping’s commitment to China having the right to impose “Chinese characteristics” on the Tian-xia, or the All-Under-Heaven.

In his report to then-US president Richard Nixon of that January 9, 1971, meeting with Dobrynin, Kissinger did not mention that he had suggested Hanoi leaving its army in South Vietnam. At the time, Nixon’s public position was reciprocal withdrawals of US and North Vietnamese forces from South Vietnam, leaving the South Vietnamese in peace.

Not until December 1972 did Nixon realize what Kissinger had not accomplished in his secret negotiations with Hanoi.
...The sorry lesson first learned by the South Vietnamese, and then later by the Afghans, is: Don’t trust Americans to negotiate with your enemy behind your back.

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Western leaders give cool response to China’s plan for Ukraine peace talks The Guardian Helen Davidson in Taipei and Amy Hawkins February 24, 2023

Western leaders have largely dismissed a peace plan for Ukraine laid out by China’s government, arguing that Beijing does not have the international credibility to act as a mediator in the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
...
The 12-point position paper on Ukraine was released on Friday morning, on the first anniversary of Russia’s invasion.

The paper, for which Ukraine was not consulted, was cautiously welcomed by Kyiv, but criticised by US officials and some analysts who noted the growing ties between China and Russia. On Wednesday, China’s top diplomat visited Moscow and pledged a deeper partnership.
...
Ukraine’s charge d’affaires to China, Zhanna Leshchynska, called the position paper “a good sign” and said she expected China to be more active in its support of her country. “We hope they also urge Russia to stop the war and withdraw its troops,” she said, adding that she did not at the moment see China as supporting Ukrainian efforts.

China’s government has presented itself as a neutral party, one capable of easing tensions between Russia and Ukraine. However, it has refused to condemn Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, instead blaming the west for inflaming tensions, and some senior officials have repeatedly voiced explicit support for Russia’s aims.

Clarification on attacking Russia - it depends on ones belief if Crimea is Russian or Ukrainian territory.

Ukraine preparing attack on Crimea – Zelensky Russian Times February 24, 2023

Ukraine is readying an offensive to try and seize Russia’s Crimean peninsula, President Vladimir Zelensky said on Friday at a press conference. Kiev is forming new units specifically for the task, with servicemen undergoing training abroad, he revealed.

“We’re taking military steps, we are preparing for them. We are mentally prepared already. We prepare technically, with weapons, forces, we form new brigades, we form offensive units of various kinds and types, we are sending people for training not only in Ukraine, you know, but also in other countries,” Zelensky stated.

The president, as well as other top officials, has repeatedly pledged to re-capture all of the former Ukrainian territories from Russia, including Crimea. The peninsula broke away from the country back in 2014 in the aftermath of the Maidan coup in Kiev, joining Russia after a landslide referendum.

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From the CGTN site.

China's Position on the Political Settlement of the Ukraine Crisis

February 24, 2023

1. Respecting the sovereignty of all countries. Universally recognized international law, including the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter, must be strictly observed. The sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all countries must be effectively upheld. All countries, big or small, strong or weak, rich or poor, are equal members of the international community. All parties should jointly uphold the basic norms governing international relations and defend international fairness and justice. Equal and uniform application of international law should be promoted, while double standards must be rejected.

2. Abandoning the Cold War mentality. The security of a country should not be pursued at the expense of others. The security of a region should not be achieved by strengthening or expanding military blocs. The legitimate security interests and concerns of all countries must be taken seriously and addressed properly. There is no simple solution to a complex issue. All parties should, following the vision of common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security and bearing in mind the long-term peace and stability of the world, help forge a balanced, effective and sustainable European security architecture. All parties should oppose the pursuit of one's own security at the cost of others' security, prevent bloc confrontation, and work together for peace and stability on the Eurasian Continent.

3. Ceasing hostilities. Conflict and war benefit no one. All parties must stay rational and exercise restraint, avoid fanning the flames and aggravating tensions, and prevent the crisis from deteriorating further or even spiraling out of control. All parties should support Russia and Ukraine in working in the same direction and resuming direct dialogue as quickly as possible, so as to gradually deescalate the situation and ultimately reach a comprehensive ceasefire.

4. Resuming peace talks. Dialogue and negotiation are the only viable solution to the Ukraine crisis. All efforts conducive to the peaceful settlement of the crisis must be encouraged and supported. The international community should stay committed to the right approach of promoting talks for peace, help parties to the conflict open the door to a political settlement as soon as possible, and create conditions and platforms for the resumption of negotiation. China will continue to play a constructive role in this regard.

5. Resolving the humanitarian crisis. All measures conducive to easing the humanitarian crisis must be encouraged and supported. Humanitarian operations should follow the principles of neutrality and impartiality, and humanitarian issues should not be politicized. The safety of civilians must be effectively protected, and humanitarian corridors should be set up for the evacuation of civilians from conflict zones. Efforts are needed to increase humanitarian assistance to relevant areas, improve humanitarian conditions, and provide rapid, safe and unimpeded humanitarian access, with a view to preventing a humanitarian crisis on a larger scale. The UN should be supported in playing a coordinating role in channeling humanitarian aid to conflict zones.

6. Protecting civilians and prisoners of war (POWs). Parties to the conflict should strictly abide by international humanitarian law, avoid attacking civilians or civilian facilities, protect women, children and other victims of the conflict, and respect the basic rights of POWs. China supports the exchange of POWs between Russia and Ukraine, and calls on all parties to create more favorable conditions for this purpose.

7. Keeping nuclear power plants safe. China opposes armed attacks against nuclear power plants or other peaceful nuclear facilities, and calls on all parties to comply with international law including the Convention on Nuclear Safety (CNS) and resolutely avoid man-made nuclear accidents. China supports the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in playing a constructive role in promoting the safety and security of peaceful nuclear facilities.

8. Reducing strategic risks. Nuclear weapons must not be used and nuclear wars must not be fought. The threat or use of nuclear weapons should be opposed. Nuclear proliferation must be prevented and nuclear crisis avoided. China opposes the research, development and use of chemical and biological weapons by any country under any circumstances.

9. Facilitating grain exports. All parties need to implement the Black Sea Grain Initiative signed by Russia, Türkiye, Ukraine and the UN fully and effectively in a balanced manner, and support the UN in playing an important role in this regard. The cooperation initiative on global food security proposed by China provides a feasible solution to the global food crisis.

10. Stopping unilateral sanctions. Unilateral sanctions and maximum pressure cannot solve the issue; they only create new problems. China opposes unilateral sanctions unauthorized by the UN Security Council. Relevant countries should stop abusing unilateral sanctions and "long-arm jurisdiction" against other countries, so as to do their share in deescalating the Ukraine crisis and create conditions for developing countries to grow their economies and better the lives of their people.

11. Keeping industrial and supply chains stable. All parties should earnestly maintain the existing world economic system and oppose using the world economy as a tool or weapon for political purposes. Joint efforts are needed to mitigate the spillovers of the crisis and prevent it from disrupting international cooperation in energy, finance, food trade and transportation and undermining the global economic recovery.

12. Promoting post-conflict reconstruction. The international community needs to take measures to support post-conflict reconstruction in conflict zones. China stands ready to provide assistance and play a constructive role in this endeavor.

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A couple of weeks ago a C99 member brought this talk to our attention. I finally got a chance to watch and it is excellent. Carl Zha does most of the presentation in an easy to follow story telling manner.

IN-DEPTH: Chinese-Russian History with Mark Sleboda & Carl Zha (2 hr 32 min)

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This weeks update on Ukraine by our two military experts.
Scott Ritter weekly interview with Judge Napolitano Feb 24, 2023 (25:32 min)

Col Doug Macgregor weekly interview with Judge Napolitano Feb 22, 2023 (19:54 min)

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What is on your mind today?

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Comments

mimi's picture

bitter cold storms blowing over your houses. At least from the news here in Germany about it, one could just pray for your survival.

Please stay warm and help each other. I need some good news. You can make it. Hope dies last and all those other wise words which escape my mind right now.

I look in the garden, the sun is shining, blooming flowers everywhere, krokus en masse. Now who could understand the world these days?

not me.

Stay safe amd warm, please.

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soryang's picture

This is another permutation of the reactionary revisionist "stab in the back theory" about the outcome in Vietnam. What it fails to recognize is the peasant nationalist uprising in Vietnam to throw off the yoke of imperialism which began early in the twentieth century. This was part of a larger Asian historical trend which resulted in the defeat of the KMT in China and the survival of North Korea to this very day.

The fact is the South Vietnamese lost because they had no popular support in the countryside in a primarily agrarian society. The ruling elite in South Vietnam was composed of former Francophile Catholic landlord carpetbaggers who fled North Vietnam when the country of Vietnam was arbitrarily divided. The attempt to lock villagers up in "strategic hamlets" and allowing former North Vietnamese landlords to seize village commons was a tacit admission of lack of political legitimacy and corruption of the government of South Vietnam. The fact is the ARVN was hated by the peasant class, the foreign presence of the US was resented as just a new variation of Japanese, French, and then American imposed colonial government. The Vietnam war in all its manifestations was essentially a nationalist peasant movement to throw out foreign invaders and occupiers. The US effort to establish a client state in Vietnam never had a viable future. To think it did was the key delusion. Blaming defeat on the Chinese is absurd. Vietnam and Korea and other Asian states know better how to preserve their sovereignty than the US.

Rather than China imposing Chinese characteristics on its neighbors, it is the US that is imposing its hegemony on Asian states on the other side of the globe, primarily through gunboat diplomacy and so called limited wars. This notion was doomed to failure from the outset. There were problems with the way the US ended the war, particularly the bombing campaigns throughout Southeast Asia, but the real problem, was the US effort to replace the French Empire in Vietnam. It's very similar in nature to the US effort to replace the Japanese empire in Korea (and Taiwan).

This reminds me of the "who lost China" hysteria in the fifties. The same dynamic was at work, peasant nationalism. For better or worse, it is what it is. The cruel and brutal outcomes associated with efforts to subjugate the peasants and then free them from foreign domination are a characteristic of desperate struggle. Chalmers Johnson recognized peasant nationalism in China as a macro-historical trend early in his research of Japanese military campaigns on the Chinese mainland. Trying to maintain a corrupt feudal class of collaborators in power in such an environment on the Asian mainland was a fool's errand.

(edited for typos and style)

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語必忠信 行必正直

enhydra lutris's picture

@soryang

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

Of course the US and west oppose any attempt at peace in Ukraine...They want to keep the grift running as long as possible. China really presented a position paper rather than a peace plan. Turkey had a peace plan initiated, but the US/UK nixed it.

All people need to do is ask first nations peoples how well we follow our own treaties. The US empire is quickly falling as the majority of the world has rejected the US "rule of law?" in favor of a Fair World Order.

These are indeed interesting times!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout

incredulous at the willingness of other countries to enter into treaties and other "agreements" with Uncle Sam, all I can ever figure is that they see some short term benefit which they think will outweigh the uncertainty as to the date and nature of the eventual betrayal,

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Seems a bit far fetched. I could see some sense establishing a regional
council with various economic or cultural blending and sharing perhaps.

Idaho was part of Oregon Country and the original home of the Shoshone and the Nez Perce peoples.

Oregon_map-L.jpg

thanks for your essay!

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Back around 2000, there was a small movement here in the Florida panhandle to have 6 or 8 of these panhandle counties being annexed to Alabama. Something about how we didn't have anything in common with Tallahassee or Miami. It went nowhere. I can't image Florida would give away these counties, considering the military bases and now all of the million plus dollars beach front homes. Way too much money to lose.

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@Enchantress

they wanted the lands and peoples from the Narragansett - East
and Connecticut was to absorb the lands from the Narragansett - West
virtually eliminating our state. Didn't work out the way they wanted.
Expansion and usurpation is typical of larger powers.
Somehow the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations
still exists as its' own entity, of which I am grateful.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@QMS

of transferring Frederick County from Virginia to West Virginia, based on the way it sticks up like a sharp point surrounded by Hardy, Hampshire, Morgan, Berkeley, and Jefferson Counties (all WV). But it never came to more than just talk.

What did happen instead was an internal transfer of Frederick and Clarke Counties (and the city of Winchester) from the 10th ("North Virginia") District to the 6th ("Northern Appalachia") District. This appears to have been done on purely geographic grounds to consolidate the bloc of Virginia counties west of the Blue Ridge and south to Roanoke-Salem.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven

political gerrymandering is the reality
when I see how the voting districts have been spliced and diced
to favor the outcomes of elections, it indicates the purpose
not so much for the benefit of neighboring constituencies
as much as controlling the outcome of elections
such as is political power

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snoopydawg's picture

Graphic video of a Israeli truck deliberately plowing through Palestinians

What is the state of the hospitals there after Israel’s blockade for years?

Probably not since we are just as evil.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

@snoopydawg

the freedom, liberty and justice US is somehow connected to Israel by the hip
atrocities of an "ally" is just the cost of doing business
the jewish state has no compunctions about destroying their neighbors
annex this and that without consequence
apartheid against the Palestine people is acceptable somehow?
South Africa got away with it for a very long time
because diamonds and control
racism is being altered into the guise of biblical distortions

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enhydra lutris's picture

pronunciamentos regarding the tax treatment of donations of closely held corporate funds to whatever that committee was/is. They can only legislate and regulate as to the Idaho state tax ramifications; the federal income tax consequences are beyond their control and will most likely require that said expenditures be treated as dividends to the owner.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

As I understand it in Oregon, rural areas don't have the tax base to support their local school district. So they rely on a general fund. So basically Western Eastern Oregon needs tax dollars from the Eastern Western part of the state to fund their public schools. Long long time about but I thought I read where rural Oregon school got something like over 100 million dollars.

Do people is Eastern Oregon know that Idaho has both a sales and income tax?

Edit...mixed up Western and Eastern Oregon.

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snoopydawg's picture

One of the worst things that they have removed is the protection of human rights. That’s no longer something that it stands for.

Link

Some republicans are trying to keep Biden from doing this without congressional approval because as it stands now it was written to bypass it.

Mery has written more about this and you can find it by clicking on her homepage. If you want more information let me know.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

@snoopydawg

over reach. You may be on to something important here.
Have not yet explored the depths of depravity that has driven this
global health control ploy, but assume it is aligned with the digital currency
reset that the WEF is salivating over. When certain independent nations
realize the scope of this plan for our future, it would not surprise to see a
very strong push back. Here in the US, maybe not so much.

Other options to societal control of our hard fought independence will
come into play. At some point, hopefully before it is too late, we shall
overcome this incredibly short sighted ploy.

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snoopydawg's picture

@QMS

but assume it is aligned with the digital currency
reset that the WEF is salivating over. When certain independent nations
realize the scope of this plan for our future, it would not surprise to see a
very strong push back.

Digital currency, and talk about a passport to fly or to travel outside your digital 15 minute city which apparently there are close to 100 already in Europe which. I read about one in Italy that makes no sense since people have to drive further now.

Bottom line is that THE WHO will be able to set the rules for epidemics worldwide. And now they are warning that the bird flu is going to kill millions. It’s killed 2 in Cambodia. We already had that epidemic a few years ago remember? People ignored it cuz they weren’t scared enough. Not this time. Get ready.

But like I said it bypasses the constitution…more.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

@snoopydawg

to say nothing of common sense.
I may be naive, but I do not see people being quite that
trusting in government edicts to go along with this type of BS.
Maybe, 10 years from now, the brain wash will more effective?
What about us, in our current understanding of things vague?

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@snoopydawg as a pandemic. Here we go!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

@QMS

When someone tells you who they are believe them.

Take this for what it’s worth because it might have been edited. Lots of cuts….but others have said that same thing. Klaus for one.

Lots of information on how the parasite class is going to restructure our world.

GEORGE Gammon, ‘rebel capitalist’, American entrepreneur and a property investor who teaches macroeconomics, has been dissecting the roots of the World Economic Forum and the Davos global elite. The two hold responsibility for the ‘great reset’ we are experiencing.

Gammon discovered what appears to be a Bond villainesque agenda to cover up the unfolding financial catastrophe behind the Reset. Diversionary tactics include blaming global warming, scapegoats and external enemies. Just like we are doing to the unvaxxed and Vladimir Putin.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

Cassiodorus's picture

The Right, you see, actually does stuff, and it does stuff to the extent to which its partisans identify with the Right. Sure, none of what "the Right" does in America makes any sense except as pointless violence, the sort of pointless violence, buttressed by nonsensical "ideologies," of those whose complexes verge on insanity. The abortion bans, for instance, exist to criminalize pregnancy, being the legislative equivalent of rape, and the attack on African-American studies is about advancing the careers of politicians whose platforms were designed by pundits on the attack against "teaching critical race theory in the schools," an activity which never happens. Perhaps "the Right," deep down in its collective manifestation of what Sigmund Freud called the "Id," or "das Es," really wants to reinstate the plantation society of the antebellum South, but the material basis for such a society disappeared 160 years ago, and the way they're going about it makes no sense. If you want to see where the Right really loses coherence, you might take a gander at Mark Levin's "American Marxism," a book premised upon an attack upon what Levin calls the "Franklin School," by which he means the "Frankfurt School" -- or at least it's a "Frankfurt School" for those who don't read and don't remember names well. With Levin we must remember Jordan Peterson's big foray into political speech -- conflating Max Horkheimer, Jacques Derrida, and the Khmer Rouge. "Cultural Marxism," dudes. Fer sher!

Now, Joe Biden, like Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and Bill Clinton, loves the Right. He loves the Right because, like these other figures, the Right does not hide its love of violence. (They also love the Right because they hate Bernie Sanders and pretty much anyone on what was once the Left and is now self-suppressing.) Joe, moreover, has found an outlet for his love of violence -- weapons spending! (Paling around with Strom Thurmond -- that was yesterday, and hatred of black people is what the other clique of mean girls do nowadays.) Now, I have no idea what happens when the economies of the West are as shattered as the Ukrainian military will be after the forthcoming offensive. (Thanks, btw, for the Scott Ritter interview.) That moment should come soon.

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'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill

Bob In Portland's picture

As an Oregon resident, a liberal Oregon resident (or progressive or woke or whatever term defines me today), this is total BS. Oregon will never vote to abandon over half the state to Idaho. If they want move here, great. If they want to give us Boise, okay.

People in Idaho have a beautiful state. But it ain't happening.

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Shahryar's picture

@Bob In Portland

then eastern Oregon could form its own state. It'd have one US Representative while western Oregon would have 5. But that Senate...it prevents natural realignment.

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@humphrey

their brand of 'democracy' pertains to places like Nigeria?
#1, it ain't none of our business
#2, we do not have a very good track record with this type of influence
and #3, the global south has a better option ie: Silk Road and responsible
global leadership. Not sanctions, not bombs, but working together to
improve domestic conditions.
Bye empire, hello co-operation for the good of all.

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snoopydawg's picture

@humphrey

It talks about that bribe and what it meant and about the recent firings of Ukraine officials. But the main point is that Biden sent people to Ukraine to erase any evidence of the Hunter Biden affair there that came from his laptop. I’m not sure why all the hubbub about Biden and his son when republicans didn’t go after Hellabitch for her foundation that she used to raise millions when she was Secretary of State. Obama has a foundation too as do many members of congress because it’s how they hide their money and don’t have to pay taxes. But still I hope this comes out. It’s not the crime, but the cover up.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

@humphrey Must be lots of Oil in Nigeria.

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NYCVG

enhydra lutris's picture

@NYCVG

Chevron-Texaco both already have some of it, maybe others.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/02/23/ohio-train...

Ohio residents with headaches and nausea around the site where a train carrying hazardous chemicals veered off the tracks are worried about the long-term impact of the derailment on human health.

But the effect on animals is already becoming clear.

The derailment in East Palestine potentially killed more than 43,000 fish, amphibians, crustaceans and other aquatic animals in nearby streams, state officials said Thursday.

It will take time for the stream ecosystem to recover, said Mary Mertz, director of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources.

“We know it won’t be quick,” she said. “But it’s going to come back.”

State officials say they have not seen any ill effects, including deaths, from the derailment on land-dwelling animals. But that hasn’t stopped other Ohioans from voicing their concerns over sick livestock and wildlife.

Kayla Miller was putting her chickens away one night this month when she found a rooster dead in her yard. She began to suspect something was awry once some of her other birds got sick, too. One started having seizures. Another stopped walking entirely.

For Miller, who lives only a few miles south of East Palestine, the culprit is clear: The plume of hazardous chemicals was sickening her birds. “They were perfectly healthy before all of this happened,” Miller said.

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@humphrey

the chemical spill could have been contained
the mistake was made, on behalf of the railroad management,
to burn it. Which created the toxicity. To clear the rails.
For profit. This will probably never come out on state media,
but why won't Buttigieg and Biden visit the sight?
They don't want to ruin their political careers by
associating with a preventable disaster.
People suffer, the ruling class skates.

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snoopydawg's picture

Sheesh!

Pentagon panel recommends gun control for US troops

With America’s military facing a suicide crisis, a study group has suggested blocking service members from buying firearms

“When we look at the science of suicide prevention, there's arguably only one thing that all researchers agree on,” said panel member Craig Bryan, a safety expert at Ohio State University. “And that one thing is that taking steps to slow down convenient access to highly lethal methods like firearms is the single-most effective strategy for saving lives.”

“Secretary Austin has emphasized that the department’s most valuable resource is its people and that they will spare no effort in working to prevent suicide and save lives.”

I guess it never dawned on them to question why so many veterans have been killing themselves in ever increasing numbers or look into how the veterans are treated because of congress not funding veterans services as much as they need to. Just like the never ending mass shooting events let’s just outlaw guns instead of looking at the social decay happening everywhere in America.

Here’s an idea…let’s stop sending men and women to wars for profit and American hegemony.

Zelensky said that if America stops supporting Ukraine then it will lose its position in the world. Well duh! It wants to continue to be the bully it is so it can rape and pillage other countries. Lots of countries are just waiting till we can’t do that anymore.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

@snoopydawg

is the reason why a combined realization of the futility of war
and lack of VA support drives these people to ignominious ends

War is good! is what they were programmed to believe.
Once, after doing their stint, the death and destruction catches up
with their morality. It's a tough role to play out.

I do not wish this outcome on anyone. The warmongers couldn't care less.
Another national shame. At least the scary bad ruskies take care of their vets
families. Here, not so much. Agent Orange? Ignorance is no excuse.

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mimi's picture

@QMS
all veterans of wars.

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soryang's picture

@mimi My observation on treatment of PTSD victims is purely anecdotal, although, I did read scores of clinical case files when I worked at the VA after the Vietnam era and was trained by senior personnel with long career experience. My cases were mostly Vietnam war veterans but also one or two Korean war PTSD cases. I also had two or three criminal defense cases years ago and one or two admin law cases, where the person getting the shaft was a combat veteran.

Service connected disability for PTSD, is sometimes unjustly denied for judgmental reasons, because of legal trouble during or after service, or because the veteran is labeled as having a disqualifying personality disorder, which by definition, preexisted service. Once denied it could be an interminable process of appeal and renewed claims in an attempt to have the claimed reopened and restored. It seems almost routine practice to try to disprove veterans claims, although the law as I was trained at the time was to resolve "reasonable doubt" in favor of the veteran.

Initially, there was incredible prejudice against PTSD claims in the medical community. Doctors just thought it was a bs classification in the DSM at the time. That issue was resolved at the VA, but the prejudice remained. Now on to the treatment problem and this is an entirely subjective view from my observations. Most psychiatrists and other practitioners try to take an "objective clinical perspective" on treatment as well as diagnosis. What this amounts to in treatment is experimenting with various medications and the patients responses to that in search of a "treatment." This approach may entail no compassion or empathy for the patient, which I think is critically important. For that one gets referred to the psychologist. Another issue is whether some of these meds even work but that is a subject matter I am not qualified to argue.

Many psychologists for whatever reason also take the objective approach, which I think makes them poor counselors. They usually don't establish rapport with the veteran, and try to take some approach to distance the veteran or obviate any emotional connection whatever. I'm not entirely sure what the basis of this professional indifference is. Usually, the "scientist" in them wants to maintain an emotional wall like a doctor. "After all, I'm a doctor too, aren't I?" Another aspect of this is simply the dominance problem that that most humans have. Although they are dealing with a patient with a unique perspective based upon one or more terrible experiences and a deeply seated emotional and behavioral response, the practitioner still feels their own need to establish and maintain dominance. If they can't, they simply act in way to permanently alienate the patient. Then they won't have to deal with that individual veteran again.

The final most critical point is when the veteran/patient is confronted with another of life's great stressors, perhaps another traumatic incident, death of loved one, medical treatment for a potentially fatal or disabling condition, or other life disaster, divorce, poverty or homelessness. The staff may simply be not up to a humane response to the crisis in the veterans life which tends to precipitate suicide. They either simple don't understand the dynamic, or their callousness after dealing with thousands of veterans with psych problems just makes them indifferent. "What do you mean you can't wait a month for an appointment? You can walk today in and talk to someone you don't know. Don't know how long it will take." Not finding anyone who can help what happens? Maybe the agency isn't in a position to provide material support but couldn't they provide some emotional support with their therapy programs?

The final factor in this respect, is the lack of competent treating health care providers in a numerical sense or as a human resource dimension, particularly in the mental health area. Part of this is a result of consistent attempts to privatize VA health care as a policy objective. Providers can make more money outside the VA. The VA has what I consider to be a bs institutional response, the so called Veterans Crisis Line and digital online programs. Contact by phone or internet is incredibly privacy invasive and fails to provide the kind of compassionate human response the PTSD sufferer desperately needs in a crisis. Do it online or do it on the phone, or get an immediate appointment at the clinic from someone who doesn't know you at all, and frankly doesn't shive a git, really isn't an inviting prospect for someone whose life is in crisis. It's a poor substitute for a system that isn't working. Someone in my family worked one of these hotlines when in graduate school.

This is not to say that there aren't committed, competent and compassionate, health care professionals at the VA. There are, there just aren't enough of them. You'd probably have to have two or three times the number of mental health care providers, to find the fraction of competent providers that they need to work on the veteran suicide problem. Prevention is worth a pound of cure. So it is also a training problem in the health care community. I met, at the VA, regular MDs and specialists in other medical fields who have greater insight into veteran mental health issues than some of their mental health providers.

Mine is exactly the sort of rant, that a bureaucracy doesn't like to hear. Maybe I'm all wrong. I think it takes the kind of courage and ethical bearing to provide veterans services sometimes that maybe some people can't bring to bear. I want to make it clear that I believe the VA including the mental health community there does often save lives and improve the quality of life for many veterans. My remarks are intended as constructive criticism, although they may not be received that way. I've always approved of the VA mission even though it suffered from political and policy shortcomings. Even the front line staff, the people I call the gate-keepers are committed and think they are doing their best, but may not be in fact, due to lack of training or insight.

I've made a rant similar to this before here. If you've heard it before, I apologize for repeating myself. This is what I have to contribute on this subject matter fwiw.

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4 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直

mimi's picture

@soryang
In the beginning they tried to give my son some medication. He felt miseralble with it and refused to take the pills. On the long run, it was good he got up and himself 'functioning' again on his own. It's a long time ago.

He just was reminded of it all, as one of his friends killed himself and my son had to contact his parents about it. Not easy. But he is much stronger than he thought himself he would be. What really 'kills' him, is the injustice and inequality between those vets and poorer folks and those regular kidds, who live on their parents estates and simply don't have a clue about the evils of war. At least it seems like it.

I remember there was one coundelor at tha VA in the very beginning after he came back from Korea and settled (run away) to Hawaii, whom he trusted a bit. I think that was in 2006. I have forgotten most of what he told me over the years.

In the meantime he has found great musician buddies and they play often togeter. And he is into gardening. So basically he engage in similar activities many of you have described
here s their favorite activities as well. Music and nature - the great healers.

My son served over a year in Korea at the DMZ zone, basically to avoid having to serve a second round in Iraq. That was between 2004 ansd 2005. My mother died in 2ßß5 and she left my son a modest amount of money. He ran with that money away to Hawaii and made it his home. I thought that was a wise decision.
I think he had seen too many people freeze almost to death and has a real 'cold weather phobie'. Hawaii at least has mostly warm weather. Smile

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5 users have voted.
soryang's picture

@mimi Yes, that's the basic problem.

I'm on tangent about the problems in the aftermath. I was stationed at Yongsan. I know it's a hardship tour up at the DMZ but anything is better than Iraq. A general once chastised me in front of a group for not visiting, ie the USO tour. I've seen the DMZ over toward Sokcho on the East Sea, heard the North Korean loudspeakers and saw the Yankee go home signs. I traveled quit a bit in Korea back then. That's enough, I didn't need the propaganda tour.

Thanks for telling me about your son's experience, I think I learned something from it.

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4 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直

dramatic ending.

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6 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

When Zelensky was a comedian he laughed about Ukraine presidents running to Europe begging for money….

Live or edited?

Have you seen Biden’s double? Check the hairline and the chin whattle.

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7 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

From the AP article.

EAST PALESTINE, Ohio (AP) — Federal environmental authorities have ordered a temporary halt in the shipment of contaminated waste from the site of a fiery train derailment earlier this month in eastern Ohio near the Pennsylvania state line.

Region 5 administrator Debra Shore of the Environmental Protection Agency said Saturday the agency ordered Norfolk Southern to “pause” shipments from the site of the Feb. 3 derailment in East Palestine but vowed that removal of the material would resume “very soon.”

“Everyone wants this contamination gone from the community. They don’t want the worry, and they don’t want the smell, and we owe it to the people of East Palestine to move it out of the community as quickly as possible,” Shore said.

Until Friday, Shore said, the rail company had been solely responsible for the disposal of the waste and supplied Ohio environmental officials with a list of selected and utilized disposal sites. Going forward, disposal plans including locations and transportation routes for contaminated waste will be subject to EPA review and approval, she said.

Minor detail!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/25/us/ohio-train-derailment-east-palestine-s...

Officials in Texas and Michigan are complaining they didn’t receive any warning that contaminated water and soil from the train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, would be shipped into their jurisdictions for disposal.

About 2 million gallons of firefighting water from the train derailment site were expected to be disposed in Harris County, Texas, with about half a million gallons already there, according to the county’s chief executive.

“It’s a very real problem, we were told yesterday the materials were coming only to learn today they’ve been here for a week,” Judge Lina Hidalgo said Thursday.

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine was not briefed on where in the country the shipments would be sent, his spokesperson told CNN. But this is typical, as the train company is responsible for the transport of material and the EPA is responsible for regulating that transport, Daniel Tierney said.

“EPA will ensure that all waste is disposed of in a safe and lawful manner at EPA-certified facilities to prevent further release of hazardous substances and impacts to communities,” the department said in a statement to CNN on Saturday.

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5 users have voted.

@humphrey There is NO PLACE in Texas to dump that hazardous waste material.
Now, our RWNJ Governor might dump it near the border with Mexico...
We shall see.

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5 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

What Russia asked for all people who have died since 2014 most people stayed seated at first…how childish that some only wanted to grieve Ukrainians who died. Even though they finally rose it’s rare that any media talks about the Ukraine attacks on the Donbas. Those Ukrainians apparently don’t count.

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7 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.

@snoopydawg

and we know how she has been smeared

geta-thunbergs-inspirations-include-rosa-parks-and-parkland-protesters-1569608196.jpg

It's important to note that Thunberg has Asperger's syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder often characterized by social awkwardness, difficulty interpreting social cues, and an obsessive preoccupation with a particular interest.

~

“Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?” ― George W. Bush

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