Wednesday Open Thread: Does Politics Rot Your Mind?
Submitted by enhydra lutris on Wed, 04/03/2019 - 5:00am
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Allrighty, then, we all know that we've all seen multiple variations of that, with perhaps one difference. We are apt to notice that in others on the opposite side of some ideological divide than we are to notice it in ourselves and those who agree with our ideological position.
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Of course, to be fair, the study only addressed a specific form of mathematical analysis and the associated reasoning, but I think that it is safe to say that the implications are not limited to that. For one thing, math and logic are closely related and intermingled, which is why some great mathematicians are also great logicians. Bertrand Russell comes to mind. Descartes dabbled in both. and many others. De Morgan's theorems (or laws) apply to specific mathematical operations as well as specific logical operations.. Set theory is part of math as well as logic. There are other overlaps and commonalities as well. Logic, of course, plays at least a slight role, at least a small part of the time, in our general cognitive processes, though more often and pronouncedly in things like the sciences than in things like politics and religion.
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Truth be told, politics isn't a thing or discipline, but a grab bag, which is maybe why, to some extent, anything goes. It isn't particularly fact based, nor scientific, or even empirical. Some academics, here and there, do dabble in facts, though, more often than not, "facts", if the truth be told. Population size and population growth are both facts, though they are known to be imperfectly measured. ADP and GNP are also facts, though with not only measurement problems, but with definitional slop as well. Population has some meaning, such as the fact that for any given fixed, or temporarily fixed, quantity of resource, there will be less available per person when population increases, requiring creation of more, or a reduction in the average per capita allocation. GNP and ADP, though facts, don't really mean zip shit except to the speculators who gamble in the FIRE industry casino. The main thing, however, is that those and any other facts and quasi facts are filtered down to the individual through ideological frames of reference that are neither fact based nor empirical. One major reason is that they are value laden, and the values are derived from propaganda, myth, illogic, and fear. And, though high sounding, upon real close inspection they are usually also self-serving and all about the holder in some obscure way.Whatever the case, whether something is high or low generally depends at least in part upon how tall you are, and whether something is good for any particular person or group depends on what has value to them and why.
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The language doesn't help either, tropes and memes notwithstanding, it is full of unspoken assumptions and presumptions. I'll use poor Dr. Grime as an example, even though he is entitled to a break because he's British. What is that "left" and "right" silliness?. If you have 100 chairs and plant 86 conservatives in them, some chairs on the left will be occupied by persons of a conservative persuasion. Only if you have multiple rows and everybody sits whee an objective outsider would place them does the left-right dichotomy have any sense. This is horribly true in the US, where we call reactionaries conservatives and mere conservatives either centrists or even liberals. And, of course, that doesn't even venture into the question of self-identification where it is not at all unheard of for raging extremist to identify themselves as centrists or moderates.. At any rate, whatever you call things, the data is in and as unsurprising as it s it is quite telling, as is the very high likelihood that very few, if any, will say, "yeah, I do that, I guess, and pretty regularly too.
Image is Christopher Dom's Droite/Gauche and is public domain -
Its an open thread so have at it. The floor is yours
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I'll be on a cliff or beach at El Capitan State Beach watching nature do her thing when this posts.
It's Day 93 of the Year 2019 CE (Gregorian), meaning that it's April 3, 2019 (Gregorian), or 13.0.6.6.14 by the long count
A better, more precise question is "in what manner and do what degree does adherence to political ideologies impair our cognitive functioning?". I'll let Doctor Grime kick it off:
Allrighty, then, we all know that we've all seen multiple variations of that, with perhaps one difference. We are apt to notice that in others on the opposite side of some ideological divide than we are to notice it in ourselves and those who agree with our ideological position.
Of course, to be fair, the study only addressed a specific form of mathematical analysis and the associated reasoning, but I think that it is safe to say that the implications are not limited to that. For one thing, math and logic are closely related and intermingled, which is why some great mathematicians are also great logicians. Bertrand Russell comes to mind. Descartes dabbled in both. and many others. De Morgan's theorems (or laws) apply to specific mathematical operations as well as specific logical operations.. Set theory is part of math as well as logic. There are other overlaps and commonalities as well. Logic, of course, plays at least a slight role, at least a small part of the time, in our general cognitive processes, though more often and pronouncedly in things like the sciences than in things like politics and religion.
Truth be told, politics isn't a thing or discipline, but a grab bag, which is maybe why, to some extent, anything goes. It isn't particularly fact based, nor scientific, or even empirical. Some academics, here and there, do dabble in facts, though, more often than not, "facts", if the truth be told. Population size and population growth are both facts, though they are known to be imperfectly measured. ADP and GNP are also facts, though with not only measurement problems, but with definitional slop as well. Population has some meaning, such as the fact that for any given fixed, or temporarily fixed, quantity of resource, there will be less available per person when population increases, requiring creation of more, or a reduction in the average per capita allocation. GNP and ADP, though facts, don't really mean zip shit except to the speculators who gamble in the FIRE industry casino. The main thing, however, is that those and any other facts and quasi facts are filtered down to the individual through ideological frames of reference that are neither fact based nor empirical. One major reason is that they are value laden, and the values are derived from propaganda, myth, illogic, and fear. And, though high sounding, upon real close inspection they are usually also self-serving and all about the holder in some obscure way.Whatever the case, whether something is high or low generally depends at least in part upon how tall you are, and whether something is good for any particular person or group depends on what has value to them and why.
The language doesn't help either, tropes and memes notwithstanding, it is full of unspoken assumptions and presumptions. I'll use poor Dr. Grime as an example, even though he is entitled to a break because he's British. What is that "left" and "right" silliness?. If you have 100 chairs and plant 86 conservatives in them, some chairs on the left will be occupied by persons of a conservative persuasion. Only if you have multiple rows and everybody sits whee an objective outsider would place them does the left-right dichotomy have any sense. This is horribly true in the US, where we call reactionaries conservatives and mere conservatives either centrists or even liberals. And, of course, that doesn't even venture into the question of self-identification where it is not at all unheard of for raging extremist to identify themselves as centrists or moderates.. At any rate, whatever you call things, the data is in and as unsurprising as it s it is quite telling, as is the very high likelihood that very few, if any, will say, "yeah, I do that, I guess, and pretty regularly too.
Image is Christopher Dom's Droite/Gauche and is public domain
Its an open thread so have at it. The floor is yours
.
I'll be on a cliff or beach at El Capitan State Beach watching nature do her thing when this posts.
Comments
good morning
Glad you're out enjoying nature el.
In the corporate oligarchy politics seems unimportant because it is so ineffective. In a nation where money is speech the people are mere pawns.
It is definitely better for our mental health to focus on nature rather than politics...so have a great day!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Goog morning Lookout, thanks for dropping in. Yes, nature is
great, and good for what ails one. Politics, OTOH, is usually a large part of what ails one, and I've been mostly ignoring it except my e-mails from Caitlin.
Have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Good morning! Thank you, el. Have a great day, everyone.
(Just don't get me started on politics!)
Good morning HAW, thanks for reading and do not,
under any circumstances, get started on politics. There is too muchother to get immersed in and started on. I, for example, plan on starting on breakfast.
Have a great one.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Carnival barkers pump next IPO
Max and Stacy host Malibu Barbie to pump AirBnB IPO. Episode 1365 - Central Banks are failing Will UBI Work
LOL and good luck. What happens when the "sharing economy" collapses? never mind
maths is lovely
maths is nice
extended version
indeed
Good morning eyo. The sharing economy, like western
is a most excellent idea that we should try sometime. Too bad none exists. AirBnB, like Uber is some hybrid quasi-exploitive rentierism. I've actully been thinking aboout the need to start a true sharing economy, and to try promoting such.
The key to a sgaring economy is sharing and not eonomy nor the eonomy. It should be an activity separate, distinct, unrelated to an subverive of the economy. It is not money nor greed that is the source of all evil, but competition.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Heh, the political entertainment industry
sheds an interesting backlight on our cognitive dissonance. Brings the clowns into high relief.
Good morning QMS, thanks for reading. One must be
wry of clowns now that the Feebs have declared the Juggalos to be a terrorist orgnization or somesuch.
Have a good one.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
100 chairs and 200 people, so the music better never stop
Made me think about musical chairs, and hamster wheels, and the Titanic of course. I'm not a math surgeon but doesn't California look like there are too many people and not enough chairs? Every time the music stops more people die in the streets. wtf
"she's gonna nix politics she's taking up volleyball"
Friends of Wilson
I'm starting to think Newton's Laws are absolutes in behavior
as well as basic observations about the way objects interact.
1. In an inertial frame of reference, an object either remains at rest or continues to move at a constant velocity, unless acted upon by a force
Same happens in politics. Unless you kick the damn establishment, they'll keep doing the same damn thing until they get kicked. Words alone never work, for I have yet to see a boulder move one foot in response to words. Words serve only to get somebody else to do the kicking.
2. In an inertial frame of reference, the vector sum of the forces F on an object is equal to the mass m of that object multiplied by the acceleration a of the object: F = ma.
In politics, this means that a lie given enough velocity will continue for a LONG time after given the initial shove. Shoving back in equal and LOUD denunciation is the only way to get the energy to stop. And there's a LOT of it.
Take "Russiagate" for example. To equal and dissipate the political energy given, one would need total media saturation for two years, as well as complete investment by the political class in the scam. All of that pushed on people for two YEARS, as well as peer and social pressure to listen to the authorities and priesthood (And anybody who says the media isn't a priesthood doesn't really understand the concept) and you've got one HELL of a political energy that cannot just be shunted aside with a few quick retractions.
3. When one body exerts a force on a second body, the second body simultaneously exerts a force equal in magnitude and opposite in direction on the first body.
This can be a LONG time coming, but it always does. And the harder the push, the harder the pushback.
Edit: Forgot the tunes, dude...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMMxPEdNDNw]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Good morning detroit. Yes, and something about the
farce of gravity as well. The real puzzle is entropy. If information degrades, which appears to be the case for sure, then why doesn't propaganda?
Have a good one.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Because Propaganda's not based on reality.
Fantasy lasts far longer that reality in the public perception.
For those who doubt, Quick, ask any random person to Name all Four Hogwarts houses. Now ask them to name Four Supreme Court Justices. I rest my case.
Russiagate is pure fantasy, a chimera of allegation, allusion, and chicanery, but not one scrap of real information. Hence belief in it is based off FAITH, not reality. And for those who still doubt, remember that there are Mueller votive candles.
Faith cannot be swayed by evidence. Evidence that goes contrary to faith is to be destroyed or dismissed. It is against the faith, therefore false.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn-GvPYc3GU]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I suspect that's because information in and of itself
Requires effort to process, as in doing the math, or it is fairly neutral in electing strong emotions. Propaganda's modus operandi is just the opposite. It requires no effort on the intended audience and it feeds off emotions. Which I believe is the reason it does not degrade.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
NSA Whistleblower: Government Collecting Everything You Do
More brain candy from Abby Martin and Bill Binney:
via youtube
~doink~
lol
great interview, thanks for finding and posting this, eyo
I just wished I would understand the technology they use.
At TC 19:27 Binney said "They can go into your computer, look at all your files, modify them or plant new files in there to make it look as if you had connection you never had or done something you never did?
I was wondering if they can even get into your computer remotely, if you have wifi in your house, but disconnected the computer from the electrical outlets and have the computer shut down. Can they then still start up your computer remotely and mess around with the files without you noticing? Even if you disconnected from wifi before shutting down the computer and then disconnecting the computer from electrical power?
I hate it when feeling helpless to understand how they do what and how to disconnect my computer in a way, they can't access it. Binney is such a clearly worded good guy. Abby and Binney did a great job with this interview.
https://www.euronews.com/
chairs...
I used to do open studio every year and one day I came out to my studio to find a pile of chairs in front of it. because chairs. chair parts. chair arms. chair legs, especially excellent. baskets of chair leggies. even better.
other news, rain now with more coming. heating arctic. right on.
the crone
wait there's more... both the new hot air facebook and twitter accounts are up and running. woohoo!
good morning all and a very good day
Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation
Hot Air Website, Twitter, Facebook
Tardy hola, magi. Congrats on the hot air accounts.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Math is your friend
This is a fascinating topic, and certainly bears out the idea of preconceived notions at battle with logic and facts. Can't get any more logical than with numbers. I personally have never been "good" at math. But recently I was motivated to overcome my lack of confidence and actually do math to prove a point to myself.
We had a competition at our store to create a little excitement and induce sales. The challenge? Select 3 items and create a "menu" and prepare them for the customers at our sample station. The team that sells the most wins.
Easy, right? Well, not exactly.
I prepared Russian dumplings stuffed with chicken and mushrooms in a sauce of sautéed mushrooms and sour cream with fresh cut dill. It was so delicious I went through all five cases of the Russian dumplings that I ordered.
I was very encouraged until the numbers came out and I saw what the winner had done. The winner of the competition chose the best selling products in the store that on a daily average sold three times as much as the products I chose.
Daily averages. That was the key word.
A little perturbed I did the math and came up with a very illuminating comparison.
The "winner" of the competition increased the sales of their best selling items by a marginal percent (ranging from 6% to 20%) but won the competition because the total amount of sales exceeded mine.
My percentages of increased sales by comparison, were much higher. Like astronomically higher (ranging from 400% to 3000%).
Had I not done the math myself, I would've been very confused how I went through all 5 cases of the Russian dumplings I ordered and still lost. I brought this to the managers attention and was told that I would be awarded a consolation prize. Which is fine because I really just wanted the recognition.
Next year when they do the competition, they will be subtracting the daily averages of the products we choose to better reflect the effort of our salesmanship as well as our cooking skills.
Yesterday, math was my friend
Thanks again for a great topic!
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Math is indeed your friend, and applying the right math
at the right time ften makes life or its projects far easier. Great sounding recipe, btw. Were the dumplings pelmeni?
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Yes, they were!
Trader Joes sells them in the frozen section. I basically sautéed TJ's mushroom medley, added TJ's garlic spread and a little sour cream, poured it over the cooked pelmeni, sprinkled it with cracked pepper and dill and presto! An instant, yet very delicious meal.
How are you familiar with them? Are you Russian, or a trader joes shopper?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I fell in love with piroshki at Andy's Deli in the Haight. S.F.
has a significant Russian community. Later on, I found another Russkie Deli out in the Avenues, all of which led me to look into assorted Russian/Hunganian/Polish/etc. recipes, including pelmeni. My wife and I do buy some stuff at TJ's, but not much. We are mostly scratch cooks, and TJ's sells lots of prepackaged stuff. Their eggs, however, are the best going, and their butter and milk seem to be a teensy bit above, plus they have a nize selection of cheeses and such.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --