Tuesday Open Thread ~ Tisseewoonatis
"There have always been the poetical thinkers and philosophical dreamers, who, when troubled by the social evils around them, or roused to indignation and pity by the crying injustice of the ruling class, and the hopeless condition of the poor, respectively, have given vent to their feelings." ~ Moritz Kaufmann, 1878
Native American societies are based on the concept of interdependence. Interdependence means that all things in the universe are dependent on one another. The idea is that everything in the universe works together to achieve a balance in oneself, the community, and the universe. In Native American societies before their contact with European culture, relationships intertwined both animate beings and inanimate beings (for example trees and water).Source: "Native American Cultures: Family Life, Kinship, and Gender".
The Nowhere Place
The philosophical construct of Utopia has a long history. Beginning with Plato's "Republic", the idea that we can transcend the political and social realities in search for a high moral ground, speaks not only to our humanity, but also our need to critique the very reality we live in so that we can become better human beings. While most of these philosophical discussions exist in the pages of books, missing from those texts are the Native American philosophers who lived in societies that in many ways reflected the very "utopian" goals western intellectuals were writing about. In a culture that embodied a deep connection and respect for their environment, both in the way they lived, and the legends they handed down from generation to generation, Native Americans understood the spiritual and practical value of striking a balance between nature and humanity.
“If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys.” ~ Chief Dan George, Tsleil-Waututh Nation, British Columbia, Canada
Iroquois Creation Legend
In the beginning, the world was not as we know it now. It was a water world inhabited only by animals and creatures of the air who could survive without land. Up above, the Sky World was quite different. Human-type beings lived there with infinite types of plants and animals to enjoy.
In the Sky World, there was a Tree of Life that was very special to the people of the Sky World. They knew that it grew at the entrance to the world below and forbade anyone to tamper with the Tree. One woman who was soon to give birth was curious about the Tree and convinced her brother to uproot the Tree.
Beneath the Tree was a great hole. The woman peered from the edge into the hole and suddenly fell off the edge. As she was falling she grasped at the edge and clutched in her hand some of the earth from the Sky World. As she fell, the birds of the world below were disturbed and alerted to her distress. The birds responded and gathered a great many of their kind to break her fall and cradle her to the back of a great sea turtle. The creatures of the water believed that she needed land to live on, so they set about to collect some for her. They dove to the great depths of the world's oceans to gather earth to make her a place to live. Many of the animals tried to gather the earth from the ocean floor, only the muskrat was successful. With only a small bit of earth brought onto turtle's back from his small paws, Turtle Island began to grow.
The Sky Woman soon gave birth to a daughter on Turtle Island. The daughter grew fast. There were no man-beings on Turtle Island, but a being known as the West Wind married the daughter of Sky Woman. Soon the daughter of Sky Woman gave birth to Twins. One was born the natural way, and he was called the Right-Handed Twin. The other was born in a way that caused the death of the mother. He was called the Left-Handed Twin. When their mother died, their grandmother, Sky Woman, placed the fistful of earth that she grasped from the edge of the Sky World, and placed it on her daughter's grave. The earth carried special seeds from the Sky World that were nourished by the earth over her daughter. So from the body of her daughter came the Sacred Tobacco, Strawberry and Sweetgrass. We call these Kionhekwa. The Life Givers.
The Right and Left-Handed Twins were endowed with special creative powers. The Right-Handed Twin created gentle hills, beautiful smelling flowers, quiet brooks, butterflies and numerous creatures, plants and earth formations. His brother the Left-Handed Twin made snakes, thorns on rose bushes, thunder and lightning and other more disturbing attributes of today's world. Together, they created man and his many attributes. The Right-Handed Twin believed in diplomacy and conflict resolution. The Left-Handed Twin believed in conflict as resolution. They were very different, but all that they created is an integral part of this Earth's Creation.
Their Grandmother, Sky Woman, now came to the end of her life. When she died, the Twins fought over her body and pulled it apart, throwing her head into the sky. As part of the Sky World, there her head remained to shine upon the world as Grandmother Moon. The Twins could not live together without fighting. They agreed to dwell in different realms of the earth. The Right-Handed Twin continued to live in the daylight and the Left-Handed Twin became a dweller of the night. Both of them continue their special duties to their Mother the Earth.
Source: https://www.firstpeople.us/FP-Html-Legends/TheCreationStory-Iroquois.html
“The land is sacred. These words are at the core of your being. The land is our mother, the rivers our blood. Take our land away and we die. That is, the Indian in us dies.” ~ Mary Brave Bird, Lakota
She Who Bathes With Her Knees
Pictured above is the lovely Tisseewoonatis, wife of the Cheyenne chief Wolf on the Hill, who in 1832, South Dakota, met an artist named George Catlin. While ageeing to sit for a portrait, Tisseewoonatis was described by Catlin as a “comely, and beautifully dressed woman". In the Cheyenne language, her name roughly translate into "She Who Bathes with Her Knees" and represents someone who values truth and justice. While I'm not sure how the literal translation connects with truth and justice, I admire the notion of giving names to people that represent their character. For example, I would not mind going through life with a name like "girl who likes to cook". In fact, apart from the fanciful aspect to it, there is a practical one as well. Now suppose we named those who poison the land, "soul-less profit driven destroyer of our earth”? A bit wordy, perhaps, but I think the practice has a satisfying utilitarian purpose.
I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing
A much talked about ending to a series that enjoyed critical acclaim as well as a devoted following, I was among many who were left scratching their heads over what felt like a superficial resolution to Don Draper's life. After the dust settled, I realized that hoping we would see Don evolve into an emotionally present father was never who he was. Instead, true to the character's narrative arc, Matthew Weiner (creator of Mad Men) positioned his damaged anti-hero protagonist in an EST like retreat, where just as he's getting in touch with the emptiness of his life, rather than benefit from the experience in a meaningful way, the idea for the greatest "Coke" commercial pops into Don's head. It is a defining example of the opportunist in Don, once again, plucking his own life experiences out of his psyche and plopping them into ads. Neatly packaged emotional truths that are coming from a place that's both real and superficial at the same time. Much like the Coke commercial itself, the sentimental idealism wraps us up in a warm glow of reassurance as it effectively manipulates us. At a time when the experience of war, death, assassinations, riots, and racial hatred was bursting into our living room every evening through the television, it's not difficult to imagine why this wildly popular Coke commercial resonated with so many of us who deep in our hearts wanted to stand on a mountaintop alongside our friends, neighbors, and strangers and sing together in harmony.
Which brings me to my idea of Utopia. A place where we not only sing together, but a place where the world works for everyone.
Utopia by Alanis Morissette
We'd gather around all in a room,
Fasten our belts engage in dialogue.
We'd all slow down rest without guilt,
Not lie without fear disagree sans judgement.
We would stay and respond and expand and include
And allow and forgive and enjoy and evolve
And discern and inquire and accept and admit
And divulge and open and reach out and speak upThis is utopia this is my utopia
This is my ideal my end in sight
Utopia this is my utopia
This is my nirvana
My ultimateWe'd open our arms.
We'd all jump in.
We'd all coast down
Into safety nets.
We would share and listen and support and welcome,
Be propelled by passion, not invest in outcomes,
We would breathe and be charmed and amused by difference,
Be gentle and make room for every emotion.This is utopia this is my utopia
This is my ideal my end in sight
Utopia this is my utopia
This is my nirvana
My ultimateWe'd provide forums.
We'd all speak out.
We'd all be heard.
We'd all feel seen.
We'd rise post-obstacle, more defined, more grateful,
We would heal be humbled and be unstoppable,
We'd hold close and let go and know when to do which,
We'd release and disarm and stand up and feel safe...
Comments
Tip Jar
Good Morning Everyone!
My apologies, but I will be a little late to the conversation today. I will be out hiking (along with a lot of huffing and puffing) here in the San Gabriel mountains. Have resisted all temptation and I'm beginning to see some welcome results. I am now 6 days away from a possible $300 prize for being the first place winner, er, loser.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Have a great hike
I strolled trade day about four times this AM. Got a few good bargains, saw and visited with several friends, and had a pleasant morning. Not utopia mind you but a nice community event every Tuesday and Saturday.
Our place on the mt is close to utopia...a mix of natural and cultivated areas. Deer and turkey (and all types of varmints) share the place with us. Right now it's dry which is causing the forest to start drooping. Just a slight drought according to the drought monitor https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/ , but we're watering the garden.
This is the home of the Cherokee. Sequoyah developed his syllabary a couple of miles from here. DeSoto came through almost 500 years ago spreading disease and chaos. In the nearby Coosa River valley his men described homes and gardens as far as the eye could see....more people living here then than now. Sixteen years later De Luna came through and the towns and villages had been devastated by mainly small pox.
The Cherokee were related to the Iroquois you can tell by the similarity of their creation myth...
There are other variations too...
https://historyplex.com/cherokee-myth-about-worlds-creation
We seem our own worse enemy when it comes to utopias. The greed gene must be dominant in our species.
Good luck with your diet and contest. Think thin.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Good Morning Lookout
Thank you so much for including the Cherokee Creation Myth. I am endlessly fascinated with the symmetry between animals and humans helping each other in their stories. A far cry from the Grimm's Fairy Tales where the forest was a representation of our fear, and the animals therein, untrustworthy. While they may appear "simple", there is so much to be learned from them.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Good morning and happy hiking, Anja. It continues hot here,
somewhat restricting menu choices and activity. Ah well, I can find plenty to do, but maintaining a sufficient activity level is another matter. Good luck in your "loser" quest.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Thanks for the well wishes EL
The muscles in my legs really get a work out and I'm quite sore. Some of the hills I'm climbing are at least a 40 degree angle. Woo Boy!
Sorry to hear about the heat. You are camping, are you not? Perhaps there is a body of water nearby where you can dip your tootsies in for an afternoon meditative rest?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Been back at home since about the 15th, actually. Nearest body
of water is bird bath/fountain, which I just remodeled for the 20th time or so in an effort to conserve water by minimizing evaporative and splash-out losses.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Birdbaths
Hmmm....that might not work for dipping the tootsies in. Cali weather further south has been quite lovely. But even with the heat, we can still see the runway lights to autumn. Which is definitely my favorite time of year. Hang in there
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Thanks for the focus on ecotopia
Funny how the indegines had already figured out that bit about living in harmony with earth before the europeans took over. A philosophy distanced, but not disappeared. Presently making a curtain call.
Church dogma, government militarism, corporate resource raping and the new infostructure can't quite squeeze the truth out of us. Yet.
Hope your climb was enlightening!
Good Morning QMS
You got that right.
The more I learn about Native American culture, the more respect I have for the life they led, and sadder I become of their fate. That we destroyed their world, their culture, their lives with our "enlightened" fascination with "progress", greed and profit, only to find ourselves in a world where our children have to protest in the streets to save the dying ecosystem they will be inheriting is truly mind boggling.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Back then
Not believing in their god was a capital crime. WTF, the king and queen said it was ok to have the church be responsible for the killing of entire cultures. For the sake of some silver and gold, to be told. The progress of our species has been broken by the greed of the power eating class. Think the indigines had it right to begin with. They were slaughtered because they didn't see it coming. It wasn't part of the original script. Life maintains life. Killers have a problem. This is still where we are at. To be punished for believing in a greater good. Leaves us vulnerable to harsher powers where the only perceived good is theirs to exploit.
Shuckens
I believe you hit the nail on head with that one
They never saw it coming. How could they when the land was so plentiful for everyone to prosper. What fundamental purpose does greed serve? None. Such a tragedy of epic proportions.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Allows one to believe
the cultivation of the earth's natives was not part of the original script. donut?
Will take some major equalizers to balance that act.
I'm on the side of nature. Like you.
One of my favorite songs
starts with a play on that Coke commercial:
It ain't no joke, I'd like to
Buy the world a toke, and teach the world to sing in
Perfect harmony
That's my kind of GenXer
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Good Morning CStMS
Fun video And, yeah, no reason why we can't do that too!
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
our ute daughter came to us as
a foster baby; her biological mother had named her 'princess dancing sky' (yech; we called her 'the boo'). once we'd adopted her, the ute mountain ute tribal chief performed a naming ceremony for her in our tipi and gave her 'Supaweyah-ma-much' (white clay woman) as her Ute name.
i will offer that many tribes are insulted when people refer to their creation stories as 'myths', because (especially) the traditionals fervently believe that those stories have brought them where they are today, and will guide them into the future if adhered to & cared for, taught to succeeding generations.
this is one man's version of the southern creation story, and there are also northern utes, dunno if their stories are written down or not. on edit: but i'd think ny ute mtn. ute creation stories would have featured: bears.
mr. wd and i live under the shadow of hespeerus mountain (in the range the utes call 'the silver or shining mountains), and is one of the four points of 'dinetah', or the navajo homeland. the dineh creation stories are complex beyond belief, with a major cast of characters, and central to them all is Spider Woman. ; ) (Spider Rock is notably depicted in canyon de chelly, AZ, the canyon in which 'scorched earth' kit carson indian killer chopped down all their fruit trees to demoralize them. i worked, and they began their long walks...
another edit: the hopi (does each clan on hopiland have one?) and dineh creation stories are central to their spiritual/religious ceremonies, and in the case of the dineh...their healing ceremonies.
great topic, thanks, anja. thank you.
Good Morning Wendy,
Thank you for sharing your story. What a rich and interesting life you have led. I like the name "dancing sky", but boo works too
Also appreciate the heads up on using the word "Myth". I was thinking of it more in the way I think of Greek or Latin myths but your point is noted.
P.S. I went ahead and changed the word "myth" to "legend"
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
ah, we just called her boo
because Princess was so urpy, but we left her midle name as dancing sky. 'boo' because her hair for the first year stood straight up in the air. rich and interesting life, indeed, but tough to bring up kids of color in a predominately white world.
i should have said that the tribal chairman knew of her early and damaging travails, and believed that as white clay is healing in the ute tradition, that might help.
i hadn't meant for you to change anything, and one of lookout's links specified 'myth', and most non-indigenous folks use it...i'd mention it. ancestral puebloans, for instance (hopi, zuni, and others) are directed by their creation stories, and that they all came up through holes in the earth (sipapu) near the little colorado river, hence: kivas. they stories divide their arrivals in four different emergent times: first world, etc., and iirc this is the fourth world.
mr. wd belonged to an organization that raised money for, and helped the dineh to replant their peach and other fruit orchards in canyon de chelley (pronounced: shay).
and while i won't get into the 'they mainly died of disease' crap discussion, the barbaric and cavalier nature of first american and first nations (canada) was epic, including thru constantly broken treaties, lies, and deceit. and yes, it's a stolen land, as is palestine, and the indian wars are still going on today with almost total impunity. and leonard peltier will die soon in prison (after maybe 40 years inside) for a crime they know and admit he didn't commit: killing two fibbies at pine ridge.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5V1lKncrsY]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJnwUbJoheo]
(cree) buffy and talking poet aim leader santee sioux john trudell (rest in power) who died a few years ago were thick friends. this was their last heartbreaking meeting.
I titled this essay "Tisseewoonatis" because
it represented both Truth and Justice. Two character traits many of us aspire to because there is so much around us that is lacking in either. The pictures in the video are both a treasure and a tragedy.
Grotesque, really, if you think about the "prosperity" of America as the result of the annilation of Native Americans and the exploitive and inhuman practice of African slavery.
Our national shame.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Gaspar de Carvajal
produced the first written description of the Amazon basin beginning in 1541 while exploring the headwaters of that river.
In his journal he described great gleaming cities with wide plazas extending for leagues away from the river and peopled by great numbers.
In his book, "1491" by Charles C. Mann, is compelling evidence that the Americas before Columbus supported multible civilizations and very little of the landscape was untouched by the hand of man.
Either through burning, agro- forestry, terracing, cultivation, or irrigation, the extent of human husbandry was found throughout the two continents.
Returning to this humble way of life is the only course for the future of mankind, IMHO.
Living as a part of the Mother Earth.
By hook or crook (nuclear annihilation or climate collapse), our offspring will need to learn new skills.
Einstein had it correct; "World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones".
Have a great hike, Anja.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Good Morning Earthling
Indeed. Modern life has it's conveniences, but the consequences are untenable.
Interesting descriptions of the Amazon, btw. Where did you hear about Gaspar de Carvajal?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
My first exposure to Father Carvajal
was in the book "The Biochar Solution" by Albert Bates where he laments that the friar's journal was found to be so unbelievable that they filed it away in the church cellar for 3 hundred years, until the early 1970s when it was stumbled upon.
Then, in the book "The Conquistadors" by Michael Wood his journey is described in much detail.
And then again, in the book mentioned above, "1491", where Mann quotes extensively from that journal and estimates, with reason, the Americas held a population larger than the rest of the world combined.
In the book "1421" by Gavin Mensies the Chinese Admiral Zheng He recorded the land populated by many and of great silver wealth.
Completely different authors, completely different genres of research, describing large populations of people and huge cities, all lost to the jungle after the collapse. DeSoto's account of the Coosa Valley (h/t Lookout) is referenced in two of the above books.
We know so little about pre columbian America.
Columbus stumbled upon the Garden of Eden and was too stupid to notice.
IMHO.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Fascinating
Will have to look into this part of history. When you say "collapse" are you speaking in terms of the Fall of the Roman Empire kind of collapse? Where they extended themselves on too many war fronts and finally ran out of money?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Mostly collapse
from epidemic of smallpox brought by Columbus that spread like wildfire throughout the Americas. It has been estimated 90% of the indigenous population perished between 1492 and 1521 when the Conquistadors began their quest. Two of the authors mentioned above described it as the first Holocaust.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Creation stories
Hope the hike was all you wanted it to be and good luck in your goal of being the winner/loser! Your goal has motivated me to get back on my bike more often and this of course is a wonderful time to being here in Santa Fe.
Always have enjoyed the various creation stories from the different cultures. There are creation stories we have heard while traveling in Africa as well. One of my favorite fiction writers is Tony Hillerman who wrote extensively about life on the Navajo reservation. In all of his books, he incorporated the various beliefs of the Navajo and how they dealt with the various issues they faced.
He has since passed on but his daughter Anne is continuing the stories and it is very interesting to see how much the Navajo and other tribes live in harmony with nature.
Life is what you make it, so make it something worthwhile.
This ain't no dress rehearsal!
Good to see you Jakkalbessie
Hiking around here is quite scenic. Thanks for asking. It feels good to get moving and breathing under a canopy of magnificent deodaras here in Altadena. I'm so fortunate to be living in such a beautiful place. Glad to hear my own journey is inspiring you to be more active too. Great thing about communities, eh?
Have always admired the way Hillerman weaved his mysteries into Native American life in New Mexico and Arizona. He really gave his characters such original lives, didn't he? And yet, the romantic part of me often prefers reading about Native American life before Europeans destroyed their way of life. Somehow I find imagining life here in North and South America in such a natural and pristine state very appealing. So much sublimity and harmony in that kind of nature. Little wonder poets the world over often wrote about the spirituality of nature.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Thank you Anja, for the wonderful OT
Gentle yet fierce qualities seem to dwell side-by-side in creation stories, wherever they’re from.
Here is a traditional Maori creation story …
Hey friend
How's it doing? Mom getting better? Hope you are too!
Hi there QMS
My mom is now fully recovered, not bad for a 90 year old!
I’m so looking forward to returning home in 2 weeks.
Cheers
So happy for you
You are an emotional rock for many here. Thank you.
Good luck!
Good to see you Janis
Gentle, yet fierce qualities do seem to dwell side by side don't they? positive vs negative, good vs bad. They both show up in most cultural creation stories. Interesting how they are portrayed. I enjoyed working on this essay and reading the different creation stories and finding pictures to match. Glad to hear you enjoyed reading it
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Good morning Girl who likes to cook,
Came by yesterday, but was short on time. A beautiful piece, thank you for the good mood i've gotten from reading it,
Man who fishes.
Man who Fishes
So glad you stopped by. It may not come as a complete surprise to you when I tell you that this essay was inspired by your piece on the climate strike. The images and stories from your essay made me think of Alanis Morrisettes song "Utopia". Wanting to include that song in one of my essays, as well as a Native American creation story, I came up with a theme and the rest just happened organically.
It seems we inspire one another
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier