The Shit is Going Down in Turkey
Submitted by gjohnsit on Fri, 07/15/2016 - 3:44pm
Update:
It appears that the coup has failed. More than 120 arrested.
I've been following it here.
Turkey's PM denies it's a coup, and instead called it an "illegal action".
Traffic has been stopped from crossing both the Bosphorus and Fatih Sultan Mehmet bridges in Istanbul.There are reports of gunshots in the capital Ankara.
Tanks are also said to be stationed outside Istanbul airport.
Mr Yildirim told NTV television by telephone: "We are working on the possibility of an attempt. We will not allow this attempt." He did not elaborate.
Yeah, that's a coup.
Update:
It worth noting that this coup happened just days after Turkey's foreign policy changed.
Mr Yildirim has got off to a good start. In a single day last month, Turkey agreed to restore ties with Israel, with which it has been at odds since 2010, and apologised to Russia for bringing down a jet that veered into its airspace in November after a bombing run over Syria. Officials from the ruling party have since raised hopes of progress in peace talks in Cyprus, divided since 1974 between an internationally recognised Greek south and a Turkish-occupied north. They have also floated a cautious opening with Egypt and a rethink of Turkey’s botched Syria policy.
Comments
Just saw this, too.
It's a coup, all right. It's going to be interesting if they overthrow him. He's not loved.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Wonder who's gonna get this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Complex
Wonder who's gonna get this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Complex
WashPost covering it now too
C4I Bunker!
I guess whoever is there wins? C4I_Bunker
He was a bad guy
I have spent a little time in Istanbul and knew a number of locals and unanimously they did not like his Islamic ties and what he represents. The Turks are a proud people and while muslim they also are very secular when it comes to the government and they are not looking for a theocracy
This is exactly what
the speaker we invited in April said, as well.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I will never forget
A couple of years ago my wife and I were browsing through the Grand Bazaar and began talking with a jewelry shop owner. The subject came up about the President because at the time there were a lot of anti protests going on. The owner said something that will stick with me.
"People keep saying we are Arabs, we are Muslims but the reality is we are Turks"
They have a lot of national pride and deservedly so but more importantly they are a very liberal form of Islam because they value their freedoms more and do not believe in a Theocracy.
Lots of conflicting reports...
The PM is saying that the coup is just an attempt. Parts of the military that re staging the coup are saying they control Ankara and Istanbul (some credence to this is the airports in both are closed, and the bridges over the Bosphorus are blocked). Some reports are stating that another part of the military is trying to take down the coup attempt. The coup leaders supposedly have the High Ranking military officials as hostages. This shit is just plain crazy right now. Also there are conflicting reports if the President of Turkey is safe or not.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
High ranking military officials
are probably the stooges installed by Erdogan when he purged the military after he took power.
Turkey under Erdogan has not exactly been a recent total ally of the US, maybe even supporting ISIS to some degree because they were fighting the Kurds.
I believe the military has intervened several times to keep the
modernization of Ataturk intact and to prevent any semblance of an emergent caliphate, which Ataturk did away with.
The current PM is a fervent pusher of political Islam and the military has taken a dim view of that for the past 80 years.
Today, in Turkey, evolution is not being taught in the schools under pressure from the government and Islamic divines. Things of this nature have been taken to be against the modernization efforts and a step backwards to the dual centers of political power that ended by 1930.
I guess we shall see what indeed is playing out.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
My program brought in a speaker in April
who spoke about this. He is from Turkey and talked at length about Erdogan and how the country is not happy with these new policies (you referenced above). You are correct - it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
As I understand it, or misunderstand it, the military sees
itself as the keeper of Ataturk's modernization like the King of Thailand sees himself as the keeper of all things Thai.
It's happened before; whether that's what happening now, maybe we'll find out before too long. Erdogan has not been a positive force for Turkey except for the ultra-religious who want power.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Erdogan
Was elected Prime Minister, who used to be the leader of the country, with the President as a figurehead. When Erdogan was term limited out, he eased himself into the presidency and transferred the power of the PM to the President, and kept giving himself more and more power. He wanted to speak at Mohammed Ali's funeral, but I think the US government did not want him to, so he got on his plane and went back to Turkey without attending the funeral.
It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan
Col. Jack Jacobs on CNBC
says the US has a great relationship with the Turkish military and won't do anything (except smile, my addition.)
ArabNews:Turkey army says has taken power over country
Just throwing a link to a different source: Turkey army says has taken power over country
To understand the Turkish military you have to start with...
...Kemal Ataturk
Ataturk was very secular and Erdogan was going theocratic;
Turkey Continues Its Irrevocable Slide to Becoming an Islamic Theocracy
I have been to Ankara and Istanbul several times. It is one of my 3 favorite cities in the world. I loved playing backgammon with Turks overlooking the Bosporus. I even hired a belly dancer once for a very successful event I organized for an IBM convention (long story). I even did business there at the highest levels.
Let's see what happens but I am somewhat optimistic.
The political revolution continues
And Twitter is very dry
Social Media Shutdown in Turkey During Military Coup
The political revolution continues
thanks to you and gjohnsit and all
because I just was hearing this on my car radio NPR and I am beyond clueless so you guys here are helping me get my bearings!
via gjohnsits link to The Telegraph I got to this article which may be very helpful if anyone else is interested in more background story...
Turkey coup: In a country once dominated by generals, the army sees itself as the guardian of the country's secular constitution
Closing paragraphs below, better to read the whole piece (its not even TL;DR!)
President out of the country...
The President of Turkey is out of the country on holiday. This explains why the military did this now and took control of the airports immediately (and shut them down).
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
president seeking asylum....
Our state department isnt removing American citizens or suggesting they leave turkey...
Obama wants to avoid using word COUP... Has serious implications since Turkey is a NATO member.
Seems Turkish President may be headed to or hunkered down in Germany
Jeeeez... Seems like the whole world has gone MAD
Orwell was an optimist
The whole world HAS gone mad.
People are mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore. Lookout - are we next? Will we be witnessing citizens on the march coming to America?!?
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Man, these Friday afternoon News Dumps are getting out of hand
Agree the Military is against the increasing religiosity that Erdogan was pushing. Maybe not the top leaders, which is why they might be being "detained". Turning off the TV, the airports and travel across the Bosphorus sure sounds like a coup to me. Interesting times, for damn sure.
And just when you thought it couldn't get weirder...
right smack dab in the middle of the coup story,
Obama drops this on us.
Dogs and Cats ... living together.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
The Friday News Dump to rule all Friday News Dumps.
Nationwide protests, 5 police killed, the GOP convention circus, the horrific slaughter in Nice, a coup in Turkey, and btw, theSaudiswerehipdeepin911.
Sounds like somebody...
wasn't too happy with Erdogan's recent rapprochement with Russia.'
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I had the feeling that Turkey was very polarized,
chiefly between theocrats and secularists, but there may be other or additional motives in play. For example, I recall that there were large protests over Erdogan's plans for a public park. I don't remember it being a controversy between Islam and secularism. Did Erdogan recently issue an edict or take some action that would adversely affect members of the military?
"All Life is Problem Solving" - Karl Popper
LA Times report includes this note:
That would likely give some officers a personal motive.
"All Life is Problem Solving" - Karl Popper
Not Good.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I recently spent a couple of days in Turkey.
Very touristy stuff, no interaction with locals, other than haggling over prices for jewelry, and the like.
What just blew me away was the newspapers. Every page was devoted to him or his wife attending or honoring some Muslim religious holiday or rite. Their speeches quoted in the papers were religion first, country next. I didn't see that dedication to religion on the street.
I didn't see or sense dissidence, but did see and sense a huge disconnect.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Coincidence?
.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Breaking News: Obama Opposes Military Coups**
**except for Egypt and Thailand
Don't forget Honduras!
We likey the junta there.
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
Ataturk's path for Turkey was a good thing
Erdogan's path is very unsettling for both the West and East.
Reading a biography of King Zog of Albania (who spent time in Istanbul as a student, and was fascinated by a city of that size), he was very aware that religious particularism (he was muslim) wouldn't work in a fragile state that was Albania with Catholic and Orthodox minorities.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Hard to believe the U.S. officials weren't aware of this . . .
even if they weren't actively involved in the planning. The action happened almost immediately after markets closed in the U.S., meaning that the coup plotters would have the weekend to consolidate gains while minimizing the amount of global economic panic. U.S. officials did not initially call this a military coup, which would have consequences for future cooperation. Instead we had statements about the importance of a peaceful "transition" and "continuity". If a hostile foreign government had its fingers on this one (e.g. Syria, Russia or Iran), I would expect a much stronger condemnation from the U.S. But that didn't happen. It wouldn't be the first time that the U.S. was caught flat-footed, but given the relationship that the U.S. has with the Turkish military, this seems unlikely.
Internationally, Erdogan has alienated pretty much everyone at some point. And his support base domestically has narrowed over time, even though he maintains a narrow popular majority thanks to his consolidation of media and control of state security. At least in the short-term, it's hard to see this ending well regardless of which side prevails. Good things rarely happen as a consequence of military coups, and if Erdogan holds on he will almost certainly consolidate power in ways that undermine civil society. What a mess.