Open Thread - Wednesday, December 2, 2015

It is mundane Wednesday and it has been raining here in western NC for the last couple of days. It rains a lot here in this part of the Appalachians. For years, like many other flatlanders I called these mountains the AppaLAYchians, but the natives pronounce it AppaLATCHians. It is one of the quickest ways to identify yourself as an outsider or a "come here" or even worse, a "Floridiot."

My husband's aunt and uncle lived in Richmond, Virginia most of their lives, but way back in the late 1940's, they hand built a small concrete block cabin on the Rappahannock River at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay in a small town of Deltaville, Virginia. When they retired, they moved to Deltaville full time. At that point, they had been there on and off for nearly forty years and knew everyone in town, but yet they would always be "come heres." They could never be anything but "come heres" in Deltaville. Only those born in Deltaville were considered "been theres."

The difference between "come heres" and "been theres" depends upon the community. In some communities, even the first generation born there is still considered part of the "come heres" whereas in others, it only takes a short while to be a part of the "been theres."

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_XpA8z1XPk]

All my life, I have been a "come here" regardless of where I have lived. I was born in another state, but have lived most of my life in Florida. I guess that automatically makes me a "Floridiot" until proven otherwise, as well as a "come here." I grew up in St. Petersburg, a city on the west coast of Florida. It was always St. Pete to us, not St. Petersburg, but it is still legally St. Petersburg. Its nearby cousin, once known as St. Petersburg Beach, changed its name to the more casual sounding St. Pete Beach several years ago. But St. Petersburg continues to hold on to its formal given name.

The story we were told when growing up there is that St. Pete was named after the city in Russia as a result coin toss between two men, both of whom were "come heres." If the loser had won, St. Pete would have been called Detroit. I always thought this story was fiction, made up to make plain jane, old St. Pete appear to have a more colorful history, but then I went to Wikipedia and much to my shock, the story was there, so it must be true or somewhat close to the truth. Could it be that truth sometimes outshines fiction?

St. Petersburg was founded in 1888 by John C. Williams, who purchased the land, and by Peter Demens, who brought the railroad industry into the area. As a part of a coin toss bet, the winner, Peter Demens, named the land after St. Petersburg, Russia, while Williams opted to name the first hotel built which was named the Detriot Hotel, both named after their home towns respectively. St. Petersburg was incorporated as a town on February 29, 1892 and re-incorporated as a city on June 6, 1903.

When I was growing up in St. Pete, the entire downtown was heavily populated with old people who had come there to retire die. Many of these "come heres" lived in one of the many rotting old hotels downtown where the rooms were rented by the month. These hotel rooms were definitely not luxury rooms but closer to dingy, tenement rooms. I had a great aunt who had been widowed three times and lived in one of these decrepit hotels. She was once apparently a real looker, but two of her husbands committed suicide and she had no children. She was close to penniless. So she moved to St. Pete as a "come here" to be near my mother who looked after her.

The once luxurious Vinoy Hotel located on the waterfront was one of these old hotels that fell into extreme disrepair during my youth. Now it is a fancy resort complete with golf course and yacht basin after having been restored by the Renaissance group. It is said to be haunted by ghosts who like to play supernatural tricks on the "come heres."

Back in those days, St. Pete was famous for the green benches in its downtown which were always heavily occupied by the nearly dead. As a teenager, I and my peers used to call St. Pete "the town of the newly wed and nearly dead." St. Pete, in those days, was more the town of the nearly dead than the town of the newly wed.

And St. Pete was the poor relative to its more refined and cosmopolitan neighbor, Tampa. St. Pete's main claim to fame was the number of days of sunshine it had each year and it became known as Florida's Sunshine City which why retirees would flock there. As a publicity gimmick, the local afternoon newspaper, the Evening Independent, used to give away free papers on the days when the sun did not shine at all. They gave away very few papers each year. And the nearly dead kept coming.

When I was in my teens, someone donated a huge, maybe fifteen foot tall, sculpture of the head of Peter the Great to the city. It was white, stuck out like a sore thumb, and looked like it was made of plaster of Paris. The city was stuck trying to find an appropriate place to locate this god awful monstrosity. The south side of St. Pete, where I grew up, was also the wrong side of the city. So of course, the city found a spot to locate the statue on the south side. There was a traffic island at an intersection of a main road south and another road that led to the Boyd Hill Nature Park which was a beautiful nature preserve on located along the south shore of Lake Maggiore.

In my youth, Lake Maggiore was the home of the Southeastern Regatta power boat races. Years later, I learned that one of my Facebook racing friends had been a powerboat (hydroplane) racer many years ago. Since he was not from Florida, I asked him if he had ever raced on Lake Maggiore. He said that Lake Maggiore was his favorite venue and that of many of his contemporaries because the surface of the water was so smooth. The powerboat races ceased years ago and now any form of motorized boating is prohibited. And since Lake Maggiore is brimming with alligators, no swimming is allowed either.

Anyway, back to the statue of Peter the Great. It was here at the intersection of these two major roads, one of which led to a gorgeous nature park, that the city fathers decided to place the ugly statue of Peter the Great. This location was also on the route that I and my family drove nearly every day to and from school or work. And every day, we would be visually assaulted by this ugly monstrosity. Eventually, some time later and after much public out cry against the statue, it disappeared. Perhaps, it was after the donor had died, I do not know. I tried to find out about the statue via Google, but nothing came up. Perhaps that is because everyone who ever saw it wanted to forget about it. Like "come heres," things that are free are not always good things. And often a "come here" is definitely not welcomed which is what happened with this ugly statue.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

mimi's picture

you had to tell us this morning. Made me smile.

Just wanted to tell you that there is a beautiful Lago Maggiore in Switzerland / Italy, as far as I know without alligators though. Smile

May be Lake Maggiore and Lago Maggiore should have a meet-up and become sister/brother lakes. That area is definitely just for the rich and those "rich come theres" (Lago Maggiore) sometimes seem to be some guru people, who can mess up some other "come there" people. Tellingly the Lago Maggiore has also some islands with names that remind me of that, the poor(er), the mad and the beautiful, Isola Superiori also Isola dei Pescatori (fisherman's island), Isola Madre and Isola bella. They are all beautiful. Those people, who can afford to have their "villa" on one of those shoreline mountains of "Lago Maggiore", have to watch out for their "greedy" character. None has invited me to their homes yet.

Lago Maggiore -resized_650x365_473108.jpg
Grüezi mitenand! (Hallo, all)
Uf Widerluege (good bye) and
Merci vilmal (thanks a lot), gg
up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

Like so many other places in the US, I would guess that St. Pete's Lake Maggiore was probably named after the big lake in Italy/Switzerland. Maggiore means large and Lake Maggiore in St. Pete is quite a large lake for its location.

Thank you for reading and commenting, mimi. Smile I try to write about things that are familiar and I never know what the topic will be until usually the day before I post. Of course, that is what an open thread is for, isn't it? Wink

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

thanks for the history of St. Pete. I spent quite a bit of time in Clearwater, just north of there, in the early 70's. Clearwater had one of the nicest beaches in Florida at the time, I never spent any time at the beach in Tampa-St. Pete, how were they there. Back in my hitchhiking days in the late 60's-early 70s Florida was one of my go-to places, the Keys and the Everglades were always my favorite though.

One trip I was hitching through the Glades, if I remember right it was on Highway 41, and was let off from a ride about halfway through, right at dusk. I thought, "Oh boy, here we go", not the place to be right at sundown. Luckily near where I was left off there was an old hideaway of a roadhouse called The Treefrog Inn or something like that. I moseyed on in and saddled up to the bar and had a couple of glasses of beer, if I was going to have to walk through the Glades at night I didn't want to feel any pain. Luckily I befriended a good old boy at the the bar that offered to take me to Miami. Of course I didn't refuse. Just one of many close calls I had back then hitching all around the country.

Thanks for the OT.

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

When I was growing up, Clearwater Beach was considered the nicest of the beaches, but all of them are nice if you are into beaches. I was as a teenager and spent a ton of time at the beach. As an adult, I avoid the sun like crazy. Smile

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Shahryar's picture

Here in Portland the flip was between a fellow from Portland, Maine and another from Boston. Both of the guys, Francis Pettygrove and Asa Lovejoy, are immortalized by street names. The streets in that part of town are alphabetical so Lovejoy is near Kearney and near Marshall while Pettygrove is a few blocks over, near Quimby. I think I'll go look up Quimby and see who that is. Ah...thanks Google! The first Oregon state game warden.

But about St. Pete....just how long is that bridge anyway? When shaz and I went to visit my folks in Ft. Meyers we took the train across country, then had to bus it from Orlando. We had the feeling that Florida is barely land, that any moment it'll be part of the Atlantic or the Gulf.

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

The Sunshine Skyway bridge goes from St. Pete to Terra Ceia and is 4.14 miles, making it the second longest bridge in Florida after the Seven Mile Bridge to Key West. It was designed by a firm headquartered in Tallahassee, Figg and Muller which has designed similar bridges, particularly in Europe. I personally find their designs very aesthetically pleasing.

Pinellas County where St. Pete is located is very low. I doubt that there is much land of 30 feet or more in elevation above sea level in the entire county. I have read that when the sea levels rise, in 50-100 years, eight of the current ten most populous cities in Florida will be under water with only Orlando, which is located in the center of the state, and Tallahassee, which is in the hilly northern part of the state, remaining above water.

Florida is very ecologically fragile. The most pressing current issue is drinking water, particularly in the southern part of the state. Some counties like Pinellas have no local source for drinking water. It is all imported from elsewhere in the center of the state.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mimi's picture

I am always puzzled about that. Can't you just drill for groundwater and get your own well? Or is there even no way to
drill for the groundwater?

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

have depleted the groundwater so much that saltwater intrusion is a major problem in some places now and definitely in the future. This is particularly true in the Miami area. Part of the issue is tied to rising sea levels and much of it is tied to the draining of major areas of the marshlands along Lake Okeechobee.

In Pinellas County, the issue is slightly different and dates back to when I was a child. Pinellas County is the most densely populated county in Florida and simply there are not adequate ground water resources to support the population so water is imported from neighboring Hillsborough County as part of a regional system.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

not! Shok

I find it very interesting that our so called closest allies in the region are helping to support our so called enemy that we helped create. Yikes, stop me before I tie myself in knots.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Good for low-priced imports. Bad for job-producing exports.
usd.jpg

up
0 users have voted.
mimi's picture

and live in the US. I better don't think about it.

up
0 users have voted.
triv33's picture

My husband's mama came from those hills, and his dad's side out by the research triangle, and while he's lived here in PA since he was 17, he's never lost the drawl. Although, when we would go down and visit his family they'd tell him he talks so fast they can't hardly make out what he's saying. Byproduct of living up here, I guess. I had always thought that the "come heres" thing was a little overplayed for the movies or some such, but no. I found that out at the first family reunion, when after Cleetus introduced me around the Grace was said, and there was some mention of saving them from yankee democrat liberals and papists. I'm paraphrasing, but it was close. If I were a less self-possessed kind of person, I might have assumed that was aimed at MEEEE! LOL. But, at least thanks to my husband I knew how to pronounce stuff.

up
0 users have voted.

I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~

gulfgal98's picture

have different ideas about "come heres." This particular town where I am right now was not even founded until after the Civil War due to a lack of accessibility to the area. So there are different grades of "come heres" in this area. If you buy land up on one of the mountains and put a huge house up there where you only spend a few months of the year, then that is looked down upon and you are a "come here." If you are from Florida and do the same thing, you are a Floridiot, the lowest of low. LOL

Because most of the people here came from elsewhere, if you try to assimilate and become involved in the community, your standing goes up and soon, you are no longer a "come here." If you live in town, that helps a ton. And if you drive easy and are courteous, you can rid yourself of the Floridiot label. Blum 3

The video of the song describes the tension between the "come heres" and "been theres" perfectly.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

shaharazade's picture

It was interesting to learn about the regions you grew up in and have lived in. I have lived up and down the west coast in my life. I did go 'back east' in my 20's as a young artist I felt I should live in NYC. Yikes! Me and a girl friend hitchhiked across the country from Bandon Oregon to Baltimore Md. where her parents lived. I lived with her family in Windsor Hills Baltimore in a big old rambling house. The house was in the boarder between an African American and a white affluent neighborhood that was just over the hill. Her parents we're older radical lefty bohemian artists. It was really fun living with them as my suburban upbringing was the total opposite.

I lived in Baltimore for almost a year as I was saving my waitessing money to move to NYC. I really loved Maryland, it was so culturally and visually divergent from the PNW and California.The historic old buildings and neighborhoods we're steeped in history and the people both AA and white were friendly. 'Good mornin' Hon' My girlfriend moved out of her parents house to Fells Point but I stayed on as 50$ a month rent and the free art and music lessons were a wonderful draw. Living in Baltimore was a great adventure for a young'un from the west coast.

I lasted about 4 months in NYC and then hitchhiked back across the country to Bandon by the Oregon sea (pop.1500 people).

My other foray into the southern east coast was to Fort Meyers for a three week visit with my retired in laws. Florida was alien territory in every way. We had a hair raising bus ride at 90 mph across the St. Petersberg bridge to get to Ft. Meyers. Once there it was a cultural shock as there were no sidewalks and an abundance of fire ants, alligators and crazy drivers if you walked along the roads. I found it scarier by far then NYC as it was much harsher and hostile both in it's people and the nature. The gulf beach's were the best part of my visit. The water was an amazing color and you could walk way out past the shoreline and see the creatures swimming about. I collected 3 shoe boxes of beach combing treasure's which I still have. It's amazing to experience living for a while in the different regions in this huge country.

My mundane Wednesday comment to your interesting story of what to me is an exotic far away land. The ugly statue was probably still there at the time but I spent the whole wild bus ride with my head buried.

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

I think the people of Florida need to see themselves as others see them. Reading this through your eyes confirms what I have long believed about the people of this state. South Floridians tend to be worse drivers than elsewhere, but I still go into driving culture shock when we go back to the big city of Tallahassee. Everything seems so hurried and discourteous.

You had quite the adventurous life hitchhiking across the county. I hitchhiked a little in Europe during my college years, but would have never had the nerve to do it in the US.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

shaharazade's picture

hitchhicking across the country. It did not seem dangerous at the time as the highways were full of young hippies traveling by thumb. We got a lot of rides from parents who had daughters and sons who had hit the road. They were paying it back by picking us up as they were worried about their own children's safety. We also got lots of rides from fellow hippies or college students who often offered us a place to stay for the night. The two places that I remember the best were a overnight stay in a real tee-pee in Anarbor Michigan. It was during a snowstorm and I was surprised at how warm and cozy the tee-pee was. The other place that stands out was a Ashram in Boulder. The monks fed us a delicious meal and it was very calming to take a day out and meditate before crossing the intimidating snowy Rockies.

The scariest ride we got was in Wyoming on an empty highway near the Grand Teton mountains. We were stuck with no cars in site. A very drunk Native American stopped and offered to take us to the next town. He was really nice and was talkative and interesting but even though there was no traffic his driving was terrifying. We asked to be let off by the road about 10 miles from where he had picked us up. He was offended as he thought we were prejudiced and afraid of him because he was an Indian. We convinced him that it was only his erratic driving and his drunken state that made us want out. I felt really bad as that also offended him but he did pullover and left us in the middle of no where.

Those were different times or maybe I was just totally naive and fearless. I sure got to see this country from a whole different perspective than flying, train or even by car. It took about 3 to 4 weeks to get across because we would end up in off the beaten track, strange places like Anarbor, Durango, Lawrence, and have to backtrack to stay on course. I wouldn't want my granddaughter or my own sons to undertake this hitchhiking trek. We were lucky but in a way cautious about the cars we got into and the roads we traveled on. Glad I didn't have the good sense to be afraid as this trip and adventure has lasted a life time as far as seeing the vast country and meeting all kinds of people who were on the whole very affable and willing to help a fellow traveler. Different times when people were not as mean spirited, violent or fearful.

up
0 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

Thank you so much for sharing. It sounds as though you ride over the Skyway bridge was far more frightening than hitchhiking across this country. Smile

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Unabashed Liberal's picture

in the living standards there, that seems to have developed over the past couple of decades.

I have a close childhood friend who's quite wealthy, having now inherited her third of her family newspaper, radio and TV station fortune. And, her husband inherited his family's thriving business, years ago (Fort Myers). So, they're one side of the coin.

But, the last couple of times that Mr M traveled to Florida on company business, he was taken aback by the rapid changes that he observed, all within a few miles distance. IOW, mega mansions on one corner; then, rows of brightly-colored, dilapidated homes, on the next. He said that many areas look a lot like poor border towns.

I've mostly traveled to the Panhandle (lately), where we have property near Pensacola--so, that's more Mr M's observation, than mine. And, it's not as bad as that, in the Panhandle, as far as I can tell.

Anyhoo, I've wondered if the infusion of Southern evangelicals down there, has brought about some of those abrupt changes. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that "pre-Chuck Colson," Florida was so economically bifurcated. After all, many evangelicals are economic libertarians.

But, that may have nothing to do with it--just 'guessing.'

Wink

Mollie


"Integrity and courage are powerful weapons. We have to learn how to use them. We have to stand up for what we believe in. And we have to accept the risks and even the ridicule that comes with this stance. We will not prevail any other way."

Chris Hedges, Journalist/Author/Activist, Truthdig, 9/20/2015

up
0 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

is my old 'stomping grounds' during my early grammar school days.

My recollection of Temple Terrace is:

Most folks had pools; EVERYONE (adult) played golf; palm trees were everywhere; and, my Brother and I had to tell 'Daddy' that the car was on fire.

If you want to see a huge man--6' 7", 265 lbs.-- move fast, drop that line on him.

Lol

(It wasn't a blaze, just a smoky, smoldering fire in the back seat of the Pontiac. He was still a smoker, back then. Since he hadn't been home long, we had to surmise that he tossed a cigarette out the driver window, that went into the back passenger window.)

I'm sure that we went to St. Pete, but don't really remember much. One of my college roommates for a summer semester (actually quarter, at the time), was from there. If I can remember her name--she was probably between you and me, age-wise--I'll let you know. She was a real character.

JtC, got it off in today's mail. If you don't have it by Saturday, blame Homeland Security!

Wink

Oh, I hope that if anyone gets a lot more detail on the Transportation Bill, they'll post it here, or at EB. I'll be too tied up to do a lot of searching until this weekend. But, I dread to find out what the 'pay-fors' are. I expect that we 'oldsters' should brace for another haircut, when it comes to Medicare, or maybe even, Social Security.

Dash 1

Hey, Everyone have a great day!

Bye

Mollie


"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart."--Helen Keller
up
0 users have voted.

Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

gulfgal98's picture

St. Pete was not that memorable unless you were going to the beach. We were less affluent and far less sophisticated than most places in the Tampa area, like Temple Terrace. No one I knew had a pool in their yard back then. We went to the beach instead.

Now downtown St. Pete is a very hopping place with lots of great restaurants, tons of condos, and young people everywhere. There are no run down residential hotels. Many of those have been refurbished and turned back into regular hotels while the remainder have been converted to condos.

up
0 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy