Open Thread - Homesteading in France
When we made our plans for retirement, looming large was access to services possibly without needing to drive and affordability. We lived in a pear growing valley east of the Cascades. Looking ahead, we listed things that seemed most important for seniors: public transportation; access to services and amenities; ease of care of our home. We looked at cities across the US and found the most affordable would be in the Deep South. Usually they lacked public transport especially outside the urban boundary. Moving back to an urban setting from our rural living would not have gotten us to an affordable house or continued daily living in the US.
There were other reasons as well. We wanted to be able to afford a good quality of life on our retirement income. We were getting more uncomfortable with the culture we perceived around us which was becoming more competitive and combative even among friends and family. Our sense of safety from farm chemicals was at zero as we were being sprayed with all manner of pesticides and herbicides with no way out and no authority which would aid us in safety from surrounding pear farms.
So we looked outside and found France made a lot of sense. It was on all the best places to retire lists in 2010. We made the first big excursion in the Fall, investigating Midi-Pyranees. We loved the area, but found no train infrastructure to major cities in the region.
France had one of the lowest financial bars to cross for becoming a resident of any ncountry we looked at.
We then looked East of the Morvan and the Massif Central to decrease Atlantic weather and decided on Bourgogne, which has four departements.
We came in September 2014 and started looking around Burgundy trying out three different areas. We finally landed in SW Saône et Loire, a region on the same latitude as we were from, with active villages, towns and cities. Fine access to Lyon the gateway to the rest of Europe and planes to the US, plus trains to Paris, Strasbourg and other places to explore and enjoy.
From our perch in Vendeness lès Charolles, we looked at fifty houses after a much delayed sale of our house in Hood River. In 2017 it was a full time job the first six months of the year.
We found a house on the Petite Riviere Mussy in May, looking at it many times while still keeping other options open. By August it was clearly our best choice. All the pieces for living well were there: plenty of room; a good and nice sized kitchen; a good yard with the little Mussy right at the edge of our property. We hadn’t been looking for a stone house, but here it was with lots of updates.
Here is a link to the photos of our house as it appeared in our real estate ad and what we found as we looked at it.
The reality of our house as we lived in it from September to Winter of 2018 changed a great deal, but this was unknown to us the beginning of our Homesteading in France.
In the news in France this week...
From The Connexion, an English language daily news site about France.
Drought
More than a quarter of French departments are now under water restriction measures with more very hot weather predicted for the rest of this week.
Some 27 departments, especially in the south-east and in the Pays-de-la-Loire and adjoining parts of the west, are now concerned by local water decrees. They range from the moderate ‘vigilance’ level, to ‘alert’, ‘reinforced alert’ and ‘crisis’.
http://propluvia.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/propluvia/faces/index.jsp
Delays in Getting Health Pass Causes France Trip Cancelations
Tourists to France from outside the EU are experiencing long delays in getting a QR code that is compatible with France’s health pass (pass sanitaire) system so they can show they have been vaccinated against Covid.
A Covid health pass - meaning proof of being vaccinated, having recently tested negative for Covid or having tested positive between two weeks and six months prior - is required to enter most public places in France, including restaurants, cafés, museums, cinemas, etc.
One US tourist told The Connexion he recently cancelled a five-week trip to France, due to start on September 2, and that the “anxiety of trying to spend five weeks in France without a QR code was definitely one of the factors.”
COVID Mu Variant
A total of 79 cases of new Covid variant ‘Mu’ have been detected in France. The World Health Organization (WHO) identifies it as a ‘variant of interest’ over signs it could be more vaccine-resistant.
The ‘Mu’ variant – scientific name B.1.621 – was originally identified in Colombia, South America, in January.
It has since been identified in around 30 other countries in South America and Europe, including the UK and Belgium, as well as France.
So far, 79 cases have been confirmed in France, said a report by health body Santé publique France. These include 27 cases in Ile-de-France and 17 in Occitanie.
Belgium has been particularly affected, with seven elderly care home residents dying after contracting the variant, local media site rtbf reported.
Beware of Toxic Mushrooms
Authorities in France are calling for caution after three people have died from wild mushroom poisoning this year, and 330 cases of poisoning were reported over the summer.
Anyone foraging for wild mushrooms, whether an expert or an occasional dabbler, should take great care before eating anything they find, warned health body La Direction générale de la santé (DGS) and and food safety agency the Agence nationale de sécurité sanitaire de l'alimentation, de l'environnement et du travail (Anses).
In a statement, they said: “The risks of poisoning are manifold: confusing an edible species with a toxic variety, and consuming edible mushrooms that are in a poor state, or poorly cooked.”
They advised people to only pick mushrooms they are 100% certain are safe, and to have them checked by a mushroom association or pharmacist (many have training to do this) in case of any doubt.
It said that relying on smartphone identification apps was not advised as there was room for error.
They continued: “Some highly toxic mushrooms look very similar to edible varieties. Some poisonous mushrooms can also grow in the same place that you may have picked edible mushrooms in a previous year.”
Followed by...
Six tasty autumn mushrooms you can find in French forests
September and October are mushroom season in France. We explain which delicious fungi you can pick and eat, and how to do so safely.
From ‘Greater Middle East’ to ‘axis of evil’
Next stop Baghdad
After 9/11 the US hit Afghanistan first, but Iraq was already in its sights. Though unconnected with Al-Qaida’s attacks, Saddam’s regime was unfinished business for America’s neocons.
Comments
Good Day Dawn
What a wonderful open thread. Your tour of all things Franco is a welcome delivery to this side of the pond. Will relish going thru it in more detail later. Beautiful old stone house.
Thanks!
Hey there, thanks for all of your encouragment.
Getting the hang of using the site and see already what could be better.
Bonjour à tous. Ça va?
Weather: Since May 1st, we've had over 36 inches of rain. Ash trees are shedding as if it is the beginning of Winter. We've had quite a few very intense rain and thunderstorm events. Our petite rivière is being scoured to a more "V" shaped bottom, with pools, leaving more banks and boulders.
Garden: we have two German 1 meter X 2 meter 90 cm tall garden beds and have the walls up on a 2 X 4 meter greenhouse. Then will come the settling natural pond for fluid septique effluent planted for the purpose. Finally, we'll add cinder block beds as can be fitted into the space.
Still chasing septique gases in the house, but making progress.
Storm is on its way. Butterflies, bats and birds really need some good, sunny weather to give them some Summer.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
About the German election this September 26:
(Originally intended for mimi’s Open Thread, which suddenly vanished)
Polls are all over the map, but a definite trend seems to be: Social Democrats (the SPD) in the lead, the Greens dropping precipitously, the CDU / CSU lethargically coasting in second place.
https://dawum.de/
I like Robert Habeck too [mimi had said Habeck was a figure she liked] and suspect the Greens shot themselves in the foot when they nominated Annalena Baerbock instead of him.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pro/an-absurd-election-for-germany
I don’t know, maybe the Greens didn’t think they were ready to take over the chancellorship and, wanting to make a strong showing but not really wanting to win, hobbled themselves on purpose.
My least favorite figure, whose weaselly face is all over the media in this election season, would be Christian Lindner of the FDP. The media have really been pulling out all the stops to boost him and his party. At the same time they also seem to have a rule that says “If you think you can get away with it, exclude the AfD,” preferring to act as if it doesn’t exist even though currently it’s the largest opposition party in parliament / the Bundestag.
——
A wild card is the steep loss among Germans of the subjective feeling that they are “free”:
https://www.euronews.com/2021/09/01/a-tale-of-two-pandemics-how-covid-di...
——
The British elections of 2017 and 2019 and Labour’s self-sabotage by its anti-Corbyn faction are still generating ugly fallout:
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2021-09-01/jewish-chronicle-libel-cor...
Guten tag! Thanks for the news. I like the multi-party
systems as they seem to have to accommodate other points of view and goals. I'm amazed how long Merkel was in power.
We can only hope that the people will have more say in the next administration.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
The Netherlands had an election in March—still no new government
Parties are still working on negotiating a coalition that would add up to 50+ percent of the seats in the lower house. This coalition-negotiating process is called formatie in Dutch.
https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/politiek/artikel/5249623/formatie-rutte-...
The old cabinet is still in place, operating under “caretaker” or “lame duck” rules sharply restricting what they can do.
The absurdity of elections
Seems the puppeteers not only perform in the US. Thanks for the updates.
Mimi is due to post tomorrow.
cheers!
I still try to figure out why my Open Thread for
Friday the 3rd vanshed.
I thibk it had something to do with the draft saving procedure. I had a good open thread prepard introduing all the candidates amd with explanations how our election system works.
I still don't understand to save an OT which I intend to edit and add to at a later time as a draft.
Tempis. LLfe must go on. I am so sorry for all the mess.
https://www.euronews.com/
Look in...
your drafts, mimi.
That's all that is left from my supposed Friday, 3rd OT
News from Germany - September 3rd, 2021 - final
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Submitted by mimi on Thu, 09/02/2021 - 3:19pm
Open Thread Image.jpg
Good Morning !
Do you know that we are here in the media "Schlammschlacht" to cover the upcoming elections in Germany on September 26th ?
So let me introduce some of the German politicians I like or detest. It should be fun.
This guy is my favorite, Robert Habeck, Leader of German Greens and writer.
German Green Party co-leader Robert Habeck discusses climate awareness, Germany’s balanced budget policy, and the need to increase government spending. He speaks with Bloomberg’s Francine Lacqua at the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland on "Bloomberg Daybreak: Europe."
This is my least favorite guy. Friedrich Merz.
[video:https://youtu.be/lANxQFyA4MM]
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The whole OT had four more candidates. May be I was talking too mean spirited about them and the German overlords just sent the whole thing to hell. I am getting hysterical. /s
https://www.euronews.com/
After each edit you must save draft essays
by using the save option at the bottom of your draft essay. I've lost lots of work by not doing so. You can be tricked by using preview and think that has been saved, but Nooo. You must save each time you edit!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
That's all there was...
I woke up this morning and there was no OT posted, so I mistakenly thought that it was you who was doing the OT today so I found your OT and removed all that wasn't finished yet as it was in template form. So I published it and right after that Dawn's OT published and I realized my mistake so I unpublished yours.
Again, the OT in your drafts is all that was completed, the rest was template material.
About your PM this morning stating that you don't want to do OTs anymore. That's fine, no one said you had to do it.
I wanted to do it, I would like to contribute something at least
. something. Gimme some weeks and I set up myself with another OP and Computer. May be that helps to kill my hypersensitive laptop who always react to something I don't understand.
Sorry JtC, I really don't want to bother any of you any longer.
https://www.euronews.com/
Sounds good, mimi
coordinate with the OT committee, OK?
What a beautiful place and a wonderful choice,enjoy!
Driving from Lyon to the Alps was an incredible journey, every time, twice to be exact,
I drove it I was just in awe.
You say you're lacking transportation, be careful what you wish for
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Actually, that was a requirement for location: easy
access to public transport. We have a local train ten minutes away which connects to Lyon only an hour, with quite a few local stops on the way. Lyon has the meeting of the Saône and the Rhone rivers. It is very French without the Disney-land feel of Paris, and is know for its food. Paul Bocuse is quite the chef from this area.
Lyon has several large TGV stations going to all points Europe and internal to France. It also has the Saint Exupéry Airport home of Air France and hub to many cities. We go to Malta for our dentist.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
To Malta? Wow, that's a trip, your teeth must not hurt
too much then, if you can do such a trip to go to the dentist.
https://www.euronews.com/
Until COVID, we did a yearly spring trip to Malta,
for routine cleaning and any special work we needed. We would stay four or five days to get two trips in or returned a month later for finishing up something. France isn't especially good on dental.
Good to see you Mimi.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
TIL (“today I learned”) that Malta speaks an offshoot of Arabic
written with the Latin alphabet. Only Semitic language in the European Union, sez Wikipedia.
It's being taught in schools. We heard it spoken in public
as a normal conversational language. The Maltese are apparently making great strides bringing their ancient language into everyday use.
It's an exciting event to hear something so different used in a normal way.
The food and shopping in Malta is exceptional. There are also very old preserved habitations in island just off Malta which are thousands of years old. Magnificent to see and to walk through.
Megalithic sites on and near Malta
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
Excellent post DM!
Your path to the expat life is what ours was supposed to be like. We made the decision to move to Cuenca following a trip of only 15 days with ~7 of them in Cuenca. I definitely don't recommend that part of our decision making process. Three months or more in a place is the minimum for protecting against horrible and expensive mistakes. In hindsight and from the experience of others multiple long trips and/or several months in a place are much better insurance, but no guarantee, against an unhappy experience. We were lucky. But, then again, we're rather adaptable and were willing to move on if Cuenca hadn't been right for us.
Once we arrived here the plan only survived a week. Renting for a year or two yielded to an offer to build the house we always wanted on the lot that was mostly perfect. I gave up my hopes of being on or near one of the rivers at the edge of town for a high perch looking the length of the city. 800 square meters of land is quite a lot smaller than the 2+ acres straddling a spring fed creek with big trees. It's also just about the perfect size to prevent my wife from creating a garden that is too big to care for. Quality is definitely better for us then quantity. As long as she can play in the dirt with her plants all is right in the world.
Living on a dirt road with a 22% slope is interesting as was transportation. We didn't buy a vehicle until we had lived on this hill for more than eight months. The closest bus stop was a little less than a half mile downhill. Getting a taxi was always an adventure until we met Cristian a mixto (mid-size 4 door pickup truck) driver. Typical of most, he works seven days a week with Sunday afternoon reserved for family get togethers. Transportation would have been a big problem without him. People who have lived close their whole lives have a hard time figuring out where we are. Cuencanos think we live out past Pluto even though it's only 4 miles to el Centro.
Being eager to make a life like the lives of those who we live among was the key. We knew we wouldn't have the life we had in the US. That was the point really. The big surprise was just how important and fortunate to our health, wellbeing, and lives would be the timing of our decision to GTFO of the US.
Other than New Zealand, southern France or Italy would have suited me just fine. Parts of Spain too, maybe. NZ despite being first on the list wasn't really an option due to the difficulty of obtaining permanent residency status. My wife was willing to look here first and couldn't see looking any further when we found what we thought we wanted. Nearly five years since we came here to explore, I have to say it's all I want or need. It's far from perfect but life continues to improve despite the (mis-)/adventures of the past year and a half. Good enough.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I would say ditto. We have made some mistakes, but
not sure how we could have avoided them. We did take a long time to find the area we thought we'd like to stay in. For the most part, it was a good choice. Land and house prices are far less expensive than the US. Although people from big cities are moving out to areas like ours which for decades were losing ground to urbanism. Now it's reversing.
If there is a bakerie, meat/butcher shop, beauty salon, church, school, town hall, small hotel with restaurant, pastrie and cholate shop, good super market, weekly market for local foods and specialities, good town tourist office, bio store and local farm sales, really it's all that's needed to have a vibrant town and busy place to get a coffee or glass of wine.
Well done for being so flexible.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
what a wonderful adventure!
Being unfamiliar with French geography, I had to look it up...
I look forward to the continuing saga. One of the farmers who taught me through his books was Louis Bromfield who also spent several years in France. I also have a musician buddy that lives near the French Alps. However, I've never been. It is on our bucket list, but travel during COVID is still pretty weird as you described.
Love your home. I've done a little rock work, but using the Flagg method I learned from Scott Nearing. Still have ambitions to do more.
Thanks for the interesting OT!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Great maps LO. We had thirteen regions which are similar
to states. When we arrived there were twenty two. but they streamlined the regions to thirteen. The departments of which there are 101 or so, are like counties.
Thank you for the links. I'm looking forward to checking them out.
The stone work is best using traditional methods. Concrete does not breathe, but old fashioned tuck/pointing using chalk mortar is great for respiration/breathing. Mold won't form as there is good ventilation and the heating and cooling of stone works well. It's a whole different way of working on a house. Want a window? cut out a square and frame with Oak. Build in a frame and place your window.
When the wallboard was removed (with tons of mold chomping away on the backside) The builders sablaged (sandblasting) the rock walls then filled with enduit or mortar.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
Work and rewards...
They go hand in hand. Looks like a great scene and lovely homestead. Congrats!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Good morning Dawn, wonderful column and wonderful
house. My wife and I really like France, and elements of the everyday lifestyle for retirees there as they appeared to us as tourist retirees. Of course, having bills to pay and all that comes with permanent domicile is a different matter. (Actually, that applies to Spain and Italy too.) I envy you living there, though I can't see us ever moving from where we are.
Thanks for the open thread, even though I don't, at the moment, have anything much to say about anything. Yesterday we peeled, cored, sliced and bagged a lug of apples for freezing, and today we've been processing another lug into applesauce for canning and the tree still has a ton of fruit for pies, galettes, cakes and the like.
Be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
EL, thanks for the comment. I really miss some of the
newer varieties of US apples like Honey Crisp. It always reminded me of the real Delicious of my youth. Great pie and sauce. My mom loved Gravenstein and would can apple sauce with dad each year. A great tart apple which doesn't keep well but is so good in pies and sauce. Lots of older US varieties here.
Would love to have an apple tasting of French varieties, which are finally being brought back.
The pre made crusts from the fridge case are superb here. I may never make bread again as the types and styles are many and so well done. I love the Rye (seigle) so yummy. Butter is the difference between bland and melt in your mouth bread.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
Yeah, French baked goods are wonderful,
though I am still partial to sourdough for somethings. Pugliese and rustic Spanish breads too. I'm also a big fan of hams, salame, cheesses and all that, so I rally should live over there somewhere, but SF Bay Area is pretty good in all of those departments too, once yu learn where.
Our tree is a Granny Smith. Not too easy to eat raw unless picked super late, like January or February.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Reverse migration back to Europe for a homestead
Quite an adventure. My Great, Great Grandmother migrated from France with her English husband to homestead just outside Astoria, Oregon. Her daughter moved to Central Oregon with her husband to claim land via the Homestead Act. It seams to be part of the adventures of being American, moving to new areas.
Looking forward to more of your writings.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
By golly, you've got it! That was what we felt we were doing
once we got our house. Reversing historic migration. Both of us have Alsatian in our backgrounds and have found the towns in the Strasbourg area our families came from. Pretty exciting to see the same family names and to find living people who know the families with the name today. Many will see Mr. Meta's last name and know that his family came from the Sundgau south of Colmar.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
Hi Dawn
What a charmingly rustic and peaceful looking place. It looks very inviting. I think you’ll love your homestead more and more as time goes on. It sounds like your refuge.
Thank you for your story of new beginnings. It’s nice to hear. Stay well and enjoy your efforts.
I truly wish the COVID thing would be just a part of life.
We know so many who would enjoy sharing what we have found. There will never be enough time to see it all, understand it all, find it all. This will have to do.
Thanks Janis.
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.