My Jimmy Dore Mea Culpa

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 12:53pm

I criticized Jimmy Dore because I made the mistake of giving the people who were the objects of his ire the benefit of the doubt. It's my default position, unless I have enough information to think otherwise. This attitude normally serves me well.
This time, OTOH, was the exception to that rule.

I was able to live in ignorance until AOC replied to Jackson with her total bullshit rationalization. And just like that, Jimmy was proven to be correct all along. She must have thought that she was more clever than she actually is because she exposed her cowardice. The silence of the rest of the squad now looks suspiciously similar as well.

It's more than a little depressing that Jimmy was right about this, but it is what it is. At least it's someplace real.
And speaking of someplace real Jimmy's M4A Vote Plan has really gathered a lot of steam.
For a while Jimmy Dore was top trending on Twitter.

I knew Jimmy was onto something when Sam Seder, who absolutely HATES Jimmy Dore, went on record to say Jimmy's idea was pretty good.

It's less of a surprise that Kyle Kulinski also backs Jimmy's idea.

By far the most amusing video I can share is Katie Halper's, who also backs Jimmy's plan, and where Jimmy tears Matt Stoller a new one (spoiler: Matt Stoller think M4A has no substance, and is all just performative theater).

Needless to say, Jimmy's idea has won the progressive Youtube universe, and he did it single-handedly.

David Sirota thinks Jimmy's plan doesn't go far enough. Which is criticism that I can accept.

No matter how you cut it, The Squad ignore this trend at their own peril.
Jimmy is appealing directly to The Squad's base, and he's winning. They can either grow a spine and stand up for the people that they are supposed to represent, or their career prospects have just gone into decline, in exactly the same way that Elizabeth Warren's has, for exactly the same reason.
It's not too late for them to do the right thing.

Tags:

Jimmy Dore

M4A

Vote

Comments

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 1:33pm

Regardless of the final outcome,

pushing for a vote on Pramila Jayapal's Medicare for All bill is a winning strategy. The Speaker's desk is where good bills go to die. Forcing a vote, at the very least, forces Representatives to actually put their votes where their virtue signaling has gone. And even if the Medicare for All bill passes the House and dies in the Senate, the public will see who is behind them and who needs to be weeded out. No more hiding behind virtue signaling.

The main purpose of Jimmy Dore's strategy is to reveal where the Dems stand on universal health care during a pandemic. Medicare for All has huge support among the American people with even a majority of self described Republicans supporting it. This is a winning issue with the people.

Those who are against this strategy voice concern that Pelosi may lose the Speakership. My answer is so what? If she refuses to put legislation on the agenda that is supported by the vast majority of people in this country, then she is no better than a Republican holding that office.

Sirota pissed me off with his technical bullshit about process. And I generally like Sirota, but his Jacobin article seemed to be aiming at muddying the waters. As someone who worked my entire career in government, be it at the local level, and worked in an area that was highly political and process oriented, I can understand how easy it is to become bogged down in procedural crap. But the bottom line is that the people do not care about procedure. They care about results and if there was ever a time to pass Medicare for All, it is now. The House and Senate have absolutely zero problems and procedural hangups when it comes to passing the defense spending bills at warp speed.

Justin Jackson was so right when he said to AOC "power concedes nothing without a demand." This is a demand and actually I believe it is a very minimal demand just to put the bill out for a recorded vote. Will the so called progressives and the fraud squad have to balls to put forth a demand to their Mama Bear? Time is running out. If they do not, they have already revealed themselves and it ain't pretty.

Edit to add: You do not have to like Jimmy Dore to support this strategy. Jimmy is not for everyone, but this strategy is something that needs to happen. Even Sam Seder who hates Jimmy Dore supports this strategy.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 1:38pm

I see this too

@gulfgal98

And I generally like Sirota, but his Jacobin article seemed to be aiming at muddying the waters.

It seems at times he is very generous in seeing things as they are not, or that he is filling the seat that I can see Pelosi giving someone to pump the breaks. And yes I am that cynical.

pushing for a vote on Pramila Jayapal's Medicare for All bill is a winning strategy. The Speaker's desk is where good bills go to die. Forcing a vote, at the very least, forces Representatives to actually put their votes where their virtue signaling has gone. And even if the Medicare for All bill passes the House and dies in the Senate, the public will see who is behind them and who needs to be weeded out. No more hiding behind virtue signaling. The main purpose of Jimmy Dore's strategy is to reveal where the Dems stand on universal health care during a pandemic. Medicare for All has huge support among the American people with even a majority of self described Republicans supporting it. This is a winning issue with the people. Those who are against this strategy voice concern that Pelosi may lose the Speakership. My answer is so what? If she refuses to put legislation on the agenda that is supported by the vast majority of people in this country, then she is no better than a Republican holding that office. Sirota pissed me off with his technical bullshit about process. And I generally like Sirota, but his Jacobin article seemed to be aiming at muddying the waters. As someone who worked my entire career in government, be it at the local level, and worked in an area that was highly political and process oriented, I can understand how easy it is to become bogged down in procedural crap. But the bottom line is that the people do not care about procedure. They care about results and if there was ever a time to pass Medicare for All, it is now. The House and Senate have absolutely zero problems and procedural hangups when it comes to passing the defense spending bills at warp speed. Justin Jackson was so right when he said to AOC "power concedes nothing without a demand." This is a demand and actually I believe it is a very minimal demand just to put the bill out for a recorded vote. Will the so called progressives and the fraud squad have to balls to put forth a demand to their Mama Bear? Time is running out. If they do not, they have already revealed themselves and it ain't pretty. Edit to add: You do not have to like Jimmy Dore to support this strategy. Jimmy is not for everyone, but this strategy is something that needs to happen. Even Sam Seder who hates Jimmy Dore supports this strategy.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 1:45pm

Matt Stoller pissed me off

@gulfgal98
not so much in the video above, but earlier in the podcast (in a different video, because I wanted to find out why Jimmy tore into him).
Stoller was under three false impressions.
1) if someone calls themselves a progressive then they are one. See my third point
2) that progressives lose a lot, so it must be all their fault. progressives do deserve some blame, but it's hardly a fair fight. EVERYONE in Washington hates progressives and their values.
3) that this is performative because M4A has no chance, so progressives should fight for something achievable. also progressives aren't serious because they don't want an incremental win.
Stoller doesn't seem to realize that progressives have NO hope at all of winning at anything in Washington. That the establishment would rather pluck out their own eye than give progressives even an incremental win. He doesn't seem to realize what the real political mood is in this country. He doesn't seem to realize that all we really want to know is who the traitors are.

pushing for a vote on Pramila Jayapal's Medicare for All bill is a winning strategy. The Speaker's desk is where good bills go to die. Forcing a vote, at the very least, forces Representatives to actually put their votes where their virtue signaling has gone. And even if the Medicare for All bill passes the House and dies in the Senate, the public will see who is behind them and who needs to be weeded out. No more hiding behind virtue signaling. The main purpose of Jimmy Dore's strategy is to reveal where the Dems stand on universal health care during a pandemic. Medicare for All has huge support among the American people with even a majority of self described Republicans supporting it. This is a winning issue with the people. Those who are against this strategy voice concern that Pelosi may lose the Speakership. My answer is so what? If she refuses to put legislation on the agenda that is supported by the vast majority of people in this country, then she is no better than a Republican holding that office. Sirota pissed me off with his technical bullshit about process. And I generally like Sirota, but his Jacobin article seemed to be aiming at muddying the waters. As someone who worked my entire career in government, be it at the local level, and worked in an area that was highly political and process oriented, I can understand how easy it is to become bogged down in procedural crap. But the bottom line is that the people do not care about procedure. They care about results and if there was ever a time to pass Medicare for All, it is now. The House and Senate have absolutely zero problems and procedural hangups when it comes to passing the defense spending bills at warp speed. Justin Jackson was so right when he said to AOC "power concedes nothing without a demand." This is a demand and actually I believe it is a very minimal demand just to put the bill out for a recorded vote. Will the so called progressives and the fraud squad have to balls to put forth a demand to their Mama Bear? Time is running out. If they do not, they have already revealed themselves and it ain't pretty. Edit to add: You do not have to like Jimmy Dore to support this strategy. Jimmy is not for everyone, but this strategy is something that needs to happen. Even Sam Seder who hates Jimmy Dore supports this strategy.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 1:55pm

Stoller's point 3

@gjohnsit When Stoller called this strategy performative, I had to laugh. What is performative is co-sponsoring a bill that you know will die on the Speaker's desk so you can virtue signal (calling out the 118 co-sponsors of Jayapal's medicare for All bill).

Taking a tough stand which exposes yourself and others in your caucus is not performative. There is a real end purpose to this strategy. And actually Jimmy has said that he would not be surprised if it passed the House and even had some Republican votes. I am not so sure, but it really does not matter. What matters to me is forcing them to publicly vote on a issue that has overwhelming support of the American people. It is forcing them to do their job without some lame excuses, looking at AOC and the rest of the squad.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 1:59pm

One more thing

@gjohnsit It has been cited on a number of occasions, but when a vocal minority of Congress demands certain things, they often get them because they are challenging the power of the establishment. The Tea Party is a good example and they ended up running off John Boehner.

Going back to Justin Jackson's partial quote of Frederick Douglass

Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Wed, 12/16/2020 - 2:47pm

Meh! They have nothing to fear

@gjohnsit
Vote Blue No matter Who trumps everything else. You could rape a Latino kid on the capitol steps and be re-elected in most districts if you only have the magic (D) after your name.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by ggersh on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 3:31pm

Amen sister GG!!

@gulfgal98 Gotta say Dubya would get this one right as we want to know "Either you're with us or you're against us", so far it looks as if they're against us

pushing for a vote on Pramila Jayapal's Medicare for All bill is a winning strategy. The Speaker's desk is where good bills go to die. Forcing a vote, at the very least, forces Representatives to actually put their votes where their virtue signaling has gone. And even if the Medicare for All bill passes the House and dies in the Senate, the public will see who is behind them and who needs to be weeded out. No more hiding behind virtue signaling. The main purpose of Jimmy Dore's strategy is to reveal where the Dems stand on universal health care during a pandemic. Medicare for All has huge support among the American people with even a majority of self described Republicans supporting it. This is a winning issue with the people. Those who are against this strategy voice concern that Pelosi may lose the Speakership. My answer is so what? If she refuses to put legislation on the agenda that is supported by the vast majority of people in this country, then she is no better than a Republican holding that office. Sirota pissed me off with his technical bullshit about process. And I generally like Sirota, but his Jacobin article seemed to be aiming at muddying the waters. As someone who worked my entire career in government, be it at the local level, and worked in an area that was highly political and process oriented, I can understand how easy it is to become bogged down in procedural crap. But the bottom line is that the people do not care about procedure. They care about results and if there was ever a time to pass Medicare for All, it is now. The House and Senate have absolutely zero problems and procedural hangups when it comes to passing the defense spending bills at warp speed. Justin Jackson was so right when he said to AOC "power concedes nothing without a demand." This is a demand and actually I believe it is a very minimal demand just to put the bill out for a recorded vote. Will the so called progressives and the fraud squad have to balls to put forth a demand to their Mama Bear? Time is running out. If they do not, they have already revealed themselves and it ain't pretty. Edit to add: You do not have to like Jimmy Dore to support this strategy. Jimmy is not for everyone, but this strategy is something that needs to happen. Even Sam Seder who hates Jimmy Dore supports this strategy.

—

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Submitted by AverageJoe42 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 9:18pm

Sirota is soft-pedaling

@gulfgal98 Sirota has been trying to have it both ways on a number of issues since the election - calling out establishment positions to a degree, but also making excuses for them. That's not going to work for people who are hurting and pissed off. I redirected my monthly sub from Sirota to Jimmy.

pushing for a vote on Pramila Jayapal's Medicare for All bill is a winning strategy. The Speaker's desk is where good bills go to die. Forcing a vote, at the very least, forces Representatives to actually put their votes where their virtue signaling has gone. And even if the Medicare for All bill passes the House and dies in the Senate, the public will see who is behind them and who needs to be weeded out. No more hiding behind virtue signaling. The main purpose of Jimmy Dore's strategy is to reveal where the Dems stand on universal health care during a pandemic. Medicare for All has huge support among the American people with even a majority of self described Republicans supporting it. This is a winning issue with the people. Those who are against this strategy voice concern that Pelosi may lose the Speakership. My answer is so what? If she refuses to put legislation on the agenda that is supported by the vast majority of people in this country, then she is no better than a Republican holding that office. Sirota pissed me off with his technical bullshit about process. And I generally like Sirota, but his Jacobin article seemed to be aiming at muddying the waters. As someone who worked my entire career in government, be it at the local level, and worked in an area that was highly political and process oriented, I can understand how easy it is to become bogged down in procedural crap. But the bottom line is that the people do not care about procedure. They care about results and if there was ever a time to pass Medicare for All, it is now. The House and Senate have absolutely zero problems and procedural hangups when it comes to passing the defense spending bills at warp speed. Justin Jackson was so right when he said to AOC "power concedes nothing without a demand." This is a demand and actually I believe it is a very minimal demand just to put the bill out for a recorded vote. Will the so called progressives and the fraud squad have to balls to put forth a demand to their Mama Bear? Time is running out. If they do not, they have already revealed themselves and it ain't pretty. Edit to add: You do not have to like Jimmy Dore to support this strategy. Jimmy is not for everyone, but this strategy is something that needs to happen. Even Sam Seder who hates Jimmy Dore supports this strategy.

Submitted by Creosote. on Wed, 12/16/2020 - 9:26am

Gg your comments land at the heart of things.

@gulfgal98
Greatful here as always for the benefit of your analysis.

pushing for a vote on Pramila Jayapal's Medicare for All bill is a winning strategy. The Speaker's desk is where good bills go to die. Forcing a vote, at the very least, forces Representatives to actually put their votes where their virtue signaling has gone. And even if the Medicare for All bill passes the House and dies in the Senate, the public will see who is behind them and who needs to be weeded out. No more hiding behind virtue signaling. The main purpose of Jimmy Dore's strategy is to reveal where the Dems stand on universal health care during a pandemic. Medicare for All has huge support among the American people with even a majority of self described Republicans supporting it. This is a winning issue with the people. Those who are against this strategy voice concern that Pelosi may lose the Speakership. My answer is so what? If she refuses to put legislation on the agenda that is supported by the vast majority of people in this country, then she is no better than a Republican holding that office. Sirota pissed me off with his technical bullshit about process. And I generally like Sirota, but his Jacobin article seemed to be aiming at muddying the waters. As someone who worked my entire career in government, be it at the local level, and worked in an area that was highly political and process oriented, I can understand how easy it is to become bogged down in procedural crap. But the bottom line is that the people do not care about procedure. They care about results and if there was ever a time to pass Medicare for All, it is now. The House and Senate have absolutely zero problems and procedural hangups when it comes to passing the defense spending bills at warp speed. Justin Jackson was so right when he said to AOC "power concedes nothing without a demand." This is a demand and actually I believe it is a very minimal demand just to put the bill out for a recorded vote. Will the so called progressives and the fraud squad have to balls to put forth a demand to their Mama Bear? Time is running out. If they do not, they have already revealed themselves and it ain't pretty. Edit to add: You do not have to like Jimmy Dore to support this strategy. Jimmy is not for everyone, but this strategy is something that needs to happen. Even Sam Seder who hates Jimmy Dore supports this strategy.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 1:42pm

Kudos to you for seeing it for what it is

for decades we have been told that we must be patient for every reason they can make up. Not long ago Jimmy exposed Pelosi's 'we don't have the votes yet" after the 2018 blue wave. She then suggested that next we need to get control of the senate before dems can do anything. Well there was that time when dems held all branches of government and yet we were told that they just didn't have the votes. We will never 'have the votes' as long as Manchin, Kaine, Warner and other demoplicans are in the senate. For gawd's sake Joe Manchin is signing onto the immunity deal for corporations that is McConnell's red line. And guess what? It is going to pass. Check out Rising or any article that talks about how bad this will be for workers. This guts all safety recourse people have. Manchin says that isn't true because worker's comp is still effective. Bullshit. WC has been broken for so long I can't believe anyone can find relief through it. And now people who are 'essential' workers that come down with COVID cannot claim a worker's comp because they can't prove where they were exposed to it. Gee no wonder when we don't do contract tracing. I have been in it for over 21 years and even though I settled my case in 2005, California gutted what is allowed and it affected even settled cases. How many other court cases have done that?

Long winded comment that you can skip is that Jimmy is right. AOC ran on MFA. She has been there 2 years. No MFA vote in that time. But as you stated, where is the rest of the squad on this?

And ffs where are the rest of congress to join Bernie and ......... in calling out the heinous new bill that has nothing for the unemployed in it. Bernie has gone from calling for monthly $2k checks to a one time $1.2k. Not good enough. And Rising this morning pointed out that Bernie can actually shut down the guv if he wants to in order to get relief. Will he? That's the test ain't it?

Our government has chosen sides and we lost. Big time we lost. I surprise myself by holding out hope that congress will provide relief to millions. I bet I am not alone. What happens after all hope is gone? Suicide rates have been rising since January. Imagine if the media covered that.

ETA link to immunity deal. It's bad.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:01pm

To be fair

@snoopydawg

AOC ran on MFA. She has been there 2 years. No MFA vote in that time. But as you stated, where is the rest of the squad on this?

The squad wasn't big enough to force Pelosi to do anything...until now.
Now they are big enough. So that excuse just came to an end.
Standards have just changed.

I held out some hope for the Squad for a very good reason - they didn't take corporate money.
I thought that would make all the difference.
But I discovered that careerism and cowardice are also powerful forces.

for decades we have been told that we must be patient for every reason they can make up. Not long ago Jimmy exposed Pelosi's 'we don't have the votes yet" after the 2018 blue wave. She then suggested that next we need to get control of the senate before dems can do anything. Well there was that time when dems held all branches of government and yet we were told that they just didn't have the votes. We will never 'have the votes' as long as Manchin, Kaine, Warner and other demoplicans are in the senate. For gawd's sake Joe Manchin is signing onto the immunity deal for corporations that is McConnell's red line. And guess what? It is going to pass. Check out Rising or any article that talks about how bad this will be for workers. This guts all safety recourse people have. Manchin says that isn't true because worker's comp is still effective. Bullshit. WC has been broken for so long I can't believe anyone can find relief through it. And now people who are 'essential' workers that come down with COVID cannot claim a worker's comp because they can't prove where they were exposed to it. Gee no wonder when we don't do contract tracing. I have been in it for over 21 years and even though I settled my case in 2005, California gutted what is allowed and it affected even settled cases. How many other court cases have done that? Long winded comment that you can skip is that Jimmy is right. AOC ran on MFA. She has been there 2 years. No MFA vote in that time. But as you stated, where is the rest of the squad on this? And ffs where are the rest of congress to join Bernie and ......... in calling out the heinous new bill that has nothing for the unemployed in it. Bernie has gone from calling for monthly $2k checks to a one time $1.2k. Not good enough. And Rising this morning pointed out that Bernie can actually shut down the guv if he wants to in order to get relief. Will he? That's the test ain't it? Our government has chosen sides and we lost. Big time we lost. I surprise myself by holding out hope that congress will provide relief to millions. I bet I am not alone. What happens after all hope is gone? Suicide rates have been rising since January. Imagine if the media covered that. ETA link to immunity deal. It's bad.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 8:17pm

No the squad doesn’t take corporate money

@gjohnsit

Jimmy answers that with, "so what they are influenced by those who do."

I posted a tweet in the EBs on how bad the bill is. Nothing for us, but big tax cuts for businesses. Dammit! To Hell!

Submitted by Snode on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:01pm

If it goes anything like in the past

@snoopydawg The stock market will soar, and therefore everything is great, and all that's needed is tinkering around the edges. Or, the stock market tanks and making it whole again will be the top priority. Oh, and tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations.

for decades we have been told that we must be patient for every reason they can make up. Not long ago Jimmy exposed Pelosi's 'we don't have the votes yet" after the 2018 blue wave. She then suggested that next we need to get control of the senate before dems can do anything. Well there was that time when dems held all branches of government and yet we were told that they just didn't have the votes. We will never 'have the votes' as long as Manchin, Kaine, Warner and other demoplicans are in the senate. For gawd's sake Joe Manchin is signing onto the immunity deal for corporations that is McConnell's red line. And guess what? It is going to pass. Check out Rising or any article that talks about how bad this will be for workers. This guts all safety recourse people have. Manchin says that isn't true because worker's comp is still effective. Bullshit. WC has been broken for so long I can't believe anyone can find relief through it. And now people who are 'essential' workers that come down with COVID cannot claim a worker's comp because they can't prove where they were exposed to it. Gee no wonder when we don't do contract tracing. I have been in it for over 21 years and even though I settled my case in 2005, California gutted what is allowed and it affected even settled cases. How many other court cases have done that? Long winded comment that you can skip is that Jimmy is right. AOC ran on MFA. She has been there 2 years. No MFA vote in that time. But as you stated, where is the rest of the squad on this? And ffs where are the rest of congress to join Bernie and ......... in calling out the heinous new bill that has nothing for the unemployed in it. Bernie has gone from calling for monthly $2k checks to a one time $1.2k. Not good enough. And Rising this morning pointed out that Bernie can actually shut down the guv if he wants to in order to get relief. Will he? That's the test ain't it? Our government has chosen sides and we lost. Big time we lost. I surprise myself by holding out hope that congress will provide relief to millions. I bet I am not alone. What happens after all hope is gone? Suicide rates have been rising since January. Imagine if the media covered that. ETA link to immunity deal. It's bad.

Submitted by BORG_US_BORG on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:08pm

Bernie's downfall

@snoopydawg Bernie's downfall is a real time tragedy to witness. Going from something minimally restorative of $2000/mo. to ultimately signing the CARES multi-Trillion corporate giveaway. Now he's peddling the one time $1200 STFU payout. He can't possibly believe that is going to fix the problems that the government created by forcing millions of people out of work. I would like to see him and the rest of congress try to survive on just $1200 from May to January, without access to any previous assets (savings, etc.)
He really did throw his "revolution" under the bus, and actively sheepdog for the Dems.

for decades we have been told that we must be patient for every reason they can make up. Not long ago Jimmy exposed Pelosi's 'we don't have the votes yet" after the 2018 blue wave. She then suggested that next we need to get control of the senate before dems can do anything. Well there was that time when dems held all branches of government and yet we were told that they just didn't have the votes. We will never 'have the votes' as long as Manchin, Kaine, Warner and other demoplicans are in the senate. For gawd's sake Joe Manchin is signing onto the immunity deal for corporations that is McConnell's red line. And guess what? It is going to pass. Check out Rising or any article that talks about how bad this will be for workers. This guts all safety recourse people have. Manchin says that isn't true because worker's comp is still effective. Bullshit. WC has been broken for so long I can't believe anyone can find relief through it. And now people who are 'essential' workers that come down with COVID cannot claim a worker's comp because they can't prove where they were exposed to it. Gee no wonder when we don't do contract tracing. I have been in it for over 21 years and even though I settled my case in 2005, California gutted what is allowed and it affected even settled cases. How many other court cases have done that? Long winded comment that you can skip is that Jimmy is right. AOC ran on MFA. She has been there 2 years. No MFA vote in that time. But as you stated, where is the rest of the squad on this? And ffs where are the rest of congress to join Bernie and ......... in calling out the heinous new bill that has nothing for the unemployed in it. Bernie has gone from calling for monthly $2k checks to a one time $1.2k. Not good enough. And Rising this morning pointed out that Bernie can actually shut down the guv if he wants to in order to get relief. Will he? That's the test ain't it? Our government has chosen sides and we lost. Big time we lost. I surprise myself by holding out hope that congress will provide relief to millions. I bet I am not alone. What happens after all hope is gone? Suicide rates have been rising since January. Imagine if the media covered that. ETA link to immunity deal. It's bad.

Submitted by AverageJoe42 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 9:25pm

I Will Never Forgive Bernie

@BORG_US_BORG for stabbing his movement in the back and endorsing the establishment. I gave him my time, money and hope, and he just pissed it all away. His tweets are empty posturing. He is dead to me.

Submitted by wendy davis on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 9:10pm

i wonder if you might

@snoopydawg

expand on this, please?

And Rising this morning pointed out that Bernie can actually shut down the guv if he wants to in order to get relief. Will he? That's the test ain't it?

for decades we have been told that we must be patient for every reason they can make up. Not long ago Jimmy exposed Pelosi's 'we don't have the votes yet" after the 2018 blue wave. She then suggested that next we need to get control of the senate before dems can do anything. Well there was that time when dems held all branches of government and yet we were told that they just didn't have the votes. We will never 'have the votes' as long as Manchin, Kaine, Warner and other demoplicans are in the senate. For gawd's sake Joe Manchin is signing onto the immunity deal for corporations that is McConnell's red line. And guess what? It is going to pass. Check out Rising or any article that talks about how bad this will be for workers. This guts all safety recourse people have. Manchin says that isn't true because worker's comp is still effective. Bullshit. WC has been broken for so long I can't believe anyone can find relief through it. And now people who are 'essential' workers that come down with COVID cannot claim a worker's comp because they can't prove where they were exposed to it. Gee no wonder when we don't do contract tracing. I have been in it for over 21 years and even though I settled my case in 2005, California gutted what is allowed and it affected even settled cases. How many other court cases have done that? Long winded comment that you can skip is that Jimmy is right. AOC ran on MFA. She has been there 2 years. No MFA vote in that time. But as you stated, where is the rest of the squad on this? And ffs where are the rest of congress to join Bernie and ......... in calling out the heinous new bill that has nothing for the unemployed in it. Bernie has gone from calling for monthly $2k checks to a one time $1.2k. Not good enough. And Rising this morning pointed out that Bernie can actually shut down the guv if he wants to in order to get relief. Will he? That's the test ain't it? Our government has chosen sides and we lost. Big time we lost. I surprise myself by holding out hope that congress will provide relief to millions. I bet I am not alone. What happens after all hope is gone? Suicide rates have been rising since January. Imagine if the media covered that. ETA link to immunity deal. It's bad.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 8:10pm

I think it means that he can block it

@wendy davis

or filibuster it and that would delay its passing for weeks. We’ve seen republicans doing this when they were in the minority, but when democrats are they rarely do.

Submitted by BORG_US_BORG on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:10pm

We demand a roll call vote!

I have seen the critters hide behind voice votes much more than I care to.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:39pm

That's the point

@BORG_US_BORG
It's sort of like when Bernie and Paul forced a one-time audit of the Fed.
It prompted a lot of "It was THAT many trillions?"

A roll call vote on M4A will expose dozens of fake progressives, and maybe a surprising number of reasonable Republicans.

Mike Figueredo backs Jimmy's plan too.

Submitted by BayAreaLefty on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:12pm

Why "mea culpa"? Arguing to change from within

isn't absurd on its face--there are good arguments to support it.

I know we disagree that it'll be effective, or maybe that it can be effective, but there's no harm in advocating the view. Especially in the face of substantial (sometimes hostile) opposition.

Submitted by Shahryar on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:40pm

Very few are always right Or wrong

I think Bob Dylan said that.

Not even us. AOC is right on a lot of stuff, wrong on others. Jimmy is, too.

Rather than being outraged at either we can look at each issue and agree or disagree with them rather than rejecting them completely.

Submitted by Azazello on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:47pm

Will this "movement" go from YouTube & social

to the "real world" ?
From last night's LIVE show:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQM9YI1ZYg width:500 height:300]

—

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Submitted by aliasalias on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 2:50pm

A vote will show which co-signers were just 'virtue signaling'

for their own political purposes and I'd bet that off camera at the very minimum over half of those co-signers are vociferously opposing a vote on the Floor for M4A.

AOC not only ran on M4A she wears a M4A face mask and I think this shows there is more than one mask in this story when it comes to AOC.

Same goes for the rest of 'the squad',which one person suggested they be renamed 'the squid' because they have no spine.

The spotlight is on them and just words won't work for them this time, thank you Jimmy Dore and screw all those attacking Dore for simply asking them to act on what they've been preaching, and using to get elected.
I hope the heat on them gets cranked up relentlessly until they make a public stand for or against M4A.. for real.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 4:12pm

I hope you don’t mind

@aliasalias

Same goes for the rest of 'the squad',which one person suggested they be renamed 'the squid' because they have no spine.

I tweeted this and I have been tweeting some people’s comments here and people are liking what they read. You guys say great stuff. Let me know if it bothers you.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:30pm

As far as I am concerned,

@snoopydawg Tweet away! The people here have a lot of very well informed and pertinent comments.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by aliasalias on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:49pm

No problem & I'd like to know your twitter name so I can follow

@snoopydawg you there, I've tried guessing but there are a lot of variations on the name you use hear.
Thanks

Submitted by Dr. John Carpenter on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:15pm

The M4A mask!

@aliasalias I didn’t know about AOC’s mask until I saw it on Jimmy’s show. It’s really starting to feel like a costume is all this is. That just strikes me as absurdly performative as Kampala’s “I was that girl” shirt. Sigh.

—

Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.

Submitted by gjohnsit on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 3:32pm

spotted on WOTB

Schrodinger's Medicare4All Vote/Support

All the resistance and pearl clutching - lets take a moment to remember what the opponents are getting so triggered over.

The thing we're asking them to vote for - at the moment - is to get an agreement to have another vote in the future. Its a vote...to have another vote. And even THAT is somehow a bridge too far for so called "progressives"

The Democrats desperately don't want to have to vote on m4a. As long as its never been tried, their support for medicare4all is both alive and dead and they can simultaneously take both sides depending on political convenience.

As long as it never comes to the floor, the box is still closed and the cat might be alive or dead...

All this resistance - its because they fear us finding out whether or not the cat is alive or dead*

( where in this case, the cat = M4A support)

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:33pm

Great analogy! (n/t)

@gjohnsit

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by aliasalias on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:53pm

Maybe not that hard cuz things are smelling really bad

@gjohnsit

Submitted by RantingRooster on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 3:34pm

I guess it's too much

to ask our duly elected representatives, in a "representative republic" to actually, ya know, represent us.

Nancy Fucking Pelosi has been a total fucking disaster, at least from the perspective of "the people's" point of view. Who prevented GWB from being impeach for the failure of the Iraq war? F-U-C-K-I-N-G Pelosi!

Under whose leadership did the Democrats lose something like 1,000 state legislator seats and governorships during Saint Obama's reign of GWOT?, F-U-C-K-I-N-G Pelosi!

Who will deny you healthcare during the worst pandemic in over a century, F-U-C-K-I-N-G Pelosi!

What the fuck is wrong with people?

All these so called "progressives" are liars and we need to hold their feet to the fire! What good are these people if they do not represent us, as they "in theory" are supposed to do! We must withhold our votes from now on, on anything, because they either actually represent us, or a Jacobin reign of terror will ensue! We have no other choice. Our lives are on the line and these people do not give a fuck!

Hell, Teddy Roosevelt proposed some form of "national healthcare", over 100 years ago and we still are suffering as a people, as a result of this denial of a basic human right to healthcare.

How many of our fellow citizens are dead simply because almost everyone treats the "economy" as if it the same as "society". We got to "save the economy", what about the people? Holy FUCK!

You can make all the demands you want, but with out a credible threat to back it up, it's meaningless!

I'm thinking new bumper stickers --> "Shoot a capitalist, save humanity!"

Jimmy's latest video. #HoldTheVote
[video:https://youtu.be/IiQM9YI1ZYg]

—

C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:45pm

This!!!

@RantingRooster

How many of our fellow citizens are dead simply because almost everyone treats the "economy" as if it the same as "society". We got to "save the economy", what about the people? Holy FUCK!

Margaret Thatcher once infamously said, "there is no such thing as society." Perhaps the economy would thrive much better if we put society first instead of the neoliberal concept of the economy.

Last night when I was watching Jimmy Dore livestream, one commenter on the livestream said we should construct 535 guillotines and put them outside Congress.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by aliasalias on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:59pm

Maybe if the people started celebrating Bastille Day too

@gulfgal98

Submitted by lotlizard on Wed, 12/16/2020 - 4:48am

Our Bastille = Federal Reserve Bank of New York (think OWS) n/t

@aliasalias

Submitted by Fishtroller 02 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 3:46pm

I think Bernie single handedly crushed many in the next

@#32

generation in terms of political activism because in the end, he broke so many promises, became part of the Dem monster and even scolded them about voting for Biden.

I can't express enough how strongly I feel about Bernie's responsibility in changing the course of what could have been next generation activism. It makes me literally physically ill to think about it.

—

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Submitted by ggersh on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 3:58pm

As Bernie always said "it's not about me it's about us"

@Fishtroller 02 And it's time us stood up for us, if not now, when.

Yes he could've fought harder but he was island in the middle
of an ocean.

—

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Submitted by AverageJoe42 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 9:31pm

Completely Agree

@Fishtroller 02 Bernie burned us all. I'll never trust him again.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:11pm

The natives are....

fed up!

Hey nice tweet.

Now go cast a vote in support of a Speaker who flippantly scuttled the bill for her billionaire owners because you're such a bad ass.

— Stained Class #SinglePayer #PeoplesParty (@DEMS_R_GOP) December 15, 2020

Do people know that their avatars are aPITA at times?

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:51pm

I saw that

@snoopydawg Perhaps I am naive or even too optimistic, but I saw Jayapal's tweet as a call out to the other so called progressives. While none of them have impressive, at least Jayapal has tried to legislate. I have called out AOC on multiple occasions for tweeting her bullshit by responding that "tweeting is not legislating."

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 9:47pm

I think you’re right

@gulfgal98

This looks promising:

CPC Chair Pramila Jayapal raised the idea during a CPC call tonight.

And members appeared receptive to the plan.

— Heather Caygle (@heatherscope) December 16, 2020

Thread

but then I did say that I’m holding on to hope for millions.

Submitted by doh1304 on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:28pm

The mouse and the owl

There is a drawing of a mouse making a "last act of defiance" to a swooping owl that is being misapplied here. Yes, AOC et all would lose if there were a vote now. Yes, she would be declaring an absolute opposition to Pelosi which could never be repaired. She would never succeed at anything again for as long as Pelosi and any of her agents remain in control of the House.
But that's the point!
AOC will never get past Pelosi on anything anyway. Her - our - only strategy is to expose and therefore defeat Pelosi and her servitors. Yes, she would lose. Something like 175 Democrats would vote against her - and something like 150 Democrats would be voted out of congress in 2022, but most would lose in the primaries, and almost all would be replaced by true public servants. Yes, this will mean that the Republicans will dominate the 2022 congress. Yes, this will mean the end of the Democratic Party, but that has to happen anyway, it should have happened in 1980.

—

On to Biden since 1973

Submitted by wendy davis on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 5:29pm

i'd searched (rather fruitlessly as it turns out)

for a brief explanation of Dr. Margaret Flowers' calls for 'An Improved Medicare for All' for quite some time.

at any rate, just so we can all be on somewhat the same page on jayapal's bill: H.R.1384 - Medicare for All Act of 2019

the summary:

“This bill establishes a national health insurance program that is administered by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

Among other requirements, the program must (1) cover all U.S. residents; (2) provide for automatic enrollment of individuals upon birth or residency in the United States; and (3) cover items and services that are medically necessary or appropriate to maintain health or to diagnose, treat, or rehabilitate a health condition, including hospital services, prescription drugs, mental health and substance abuse treatment, dental and vision services, and long-term care.

The bill prohibits cost-sharing (e.g., deductibles, coinsurance, and copayments) and other charges for covered services. Additionally, private health insurers and employers may only offer coverage that is supplemental to, and not duplicative of, benefits provided under the program.

Health insurance exchanges and specified federal health programs terminate upon program implementation. However, the program does not affect coverage provided through the Department of Veterans Affairs or the Indian Health Service.

The bill also establishes a series of implementing provisions relating to (1) health care provider participation; (2) HHS administration; and (3) payments and costs, including the requirement that HHS negotiate prices for prescription drugs.

Individuals who are age 18 or younger, age 55 or older, or already enrolled in Medicare may enroll in the program starting one year after enactment of this bill; other individuals may buy into the program at this time. The program must be fully implemented two years after enactment.

the full text.

now of course this is Medical Insurance, not necessarily Health Care, but i'd also wondered if alternative/adjunct health providers were covered: nutritionists, acupuncturists, chiropractors, massage therapists, and so on, but in a quick search of the full text, all i found was:

SEC. 103. Freedom of choice.
Any individual entitled to benefits under this Act may obtain health services from any institution, agency, or individual qualified to participate under this Act.

...whatever that means. and whatever 'buy into the program' means. mr. wd explained that signing up for medicare at 65 (?) means that if you're collecting social security, the price of whatever program/s you've requested are deducted from your SS check.

Submitted by MrWebster on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 6:20pm

Jimmy exposed the capitulators.

Jimmy's rants grate on me, but his substance does not. He really exposed the capitulators on the left. From comments on youtube and twitter, most everybody supports JImmy's proposal. Of course the supporters of his detractors say opposite, but they seem much much fewer. One of the worst was Ana Kasperian who simply made her objections based on a personal hatred of Jimmy because he didn't smear Tulsi Gabbard.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 8:41pm

Ana...,

@MrWebster

Jimmy tweeted her doing a pro nasa thing with Madeline Albright. The war criminal. She can never live that down. Ha!

Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Tue, 12/15/2020 - 11:38pm

Glad to see you came to your senses

We all get one wrong now and then. Glad you managed to get it right in the end.