Morning Open Thread 4/3/15

Welcome to the Good Friday edition of Morning Open Thread. Today's topic is the justice and penal systems.

WWJD - What Would Justice Demand?

The American Injustice System works well for the elite and privileged.

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/2/7/affluenza_defense_lands_wealthy_tee...

The rest of us are at the mercy of the courts.

http://justiceforcecily.com/
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/7/2/occupy_wall_street_activist_ce...

INCARCERATION

The United States is the world's leader in incarceration with 2.2 million people currently in the nation's prisons or jails -- a 500% increase over the past thirty years. These trends have resulted in prison overcrowding and state governments being overwhelmed by the burden of funding a rapidly expanding penal system, despite increasing evidence that large-scale incarceration is not the most effective means of achieving public safety.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=107

Why are so many people incarcerated? Is the justice and penal system a self licking ice cream cone (borrowed from another diarist). Self-licking ice cream cones are entities that serve no purpose except to sustain themselves.

RACIAL DISPARITY

More than 60% of the people in prison are now racial and ethnic minorities. For Black males in their thirties, 1 in every 10 is in prison or jail on any given day. These trends have been intensified by the disproportionate impact of the "war on drugs," in which two-thirds of all persons in prison for drug offenses are people of color.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/01/news-photos-racist-mugshots-year...

I am relieved that I did not have to teach my children the vulnerability of not being a Caucasian. I did have to teach them about the system.

During my son's freshman year of college, a police officer entered an open apartment door and observed beer cans in the recycling. None of the roommates were twenty-one, so the police officer cited all four boys for underage drinking. My son was rather incensed and wanted to fight the citation. Was it a bad bust? Absolutely! Could the boys have the charges dropped. Probably not. It was a small college town. They rented from the largest land lord in town, who hired off duty police to patrol his properties. I had to explain how the property owner, police and magistrate run the place and how they will string you along and cost you hundreds of dollars to question their authority. Not quite Ferguson, but a shake down none the less.

DRUG POLICY

Sentencing policies brought about by the "war on drugs" resulted in a dramatic growth in incarceration for drug offenses. At the Federal level, prisoners incarcerated on a drug charge comprise half of the prison population, while the number of drug offenders in state prisons has increased thirteen-fold since 1980. Most of these people are not high-level actors in the drug trade, and most have no prior criminal record for a violent offense.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=128

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201106/why-the-war-dr...

I am convinced that the war on drugs is a self licking ice cream cone. Property seizure is injust.

http://www.legal-aid.org/en/ineedhelp/ineedhelp/criminalproblem/faq/howd...

The war on drugs is an excuse to perpetuate law enforcement and judicial fiefdoms. With the side benefit of creating an economic under class that can be exploited in the labor market.

Now the self licking ice cream cone is advancing an agenda of private prisons. What a lovely idea.

Prison food service vendor Aramark served food from the trash to inmates at a Michigan prison.

http://www.takepart.com/article/2015/03/31/prison-serves-piping-hot-plat...

Is there no limit to the immorality of the profit motive?

https://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons

Few ruling elites care to address the situation. It is somebody else's problem. Perhaps gerrymandering will help. How? Minority packing results in a few dynamic minority congress people. The rest of us need to help them push for reform.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/03/27/3639186/enough-enough-theres...

This is what real government tyranny looks like!

=========================

Stevie Wonder - Living for the City

Aaron Neville - I Shall Be Released

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Comments

looks like neo liberal economic supporters are going all outt

using the "Race Card" way to attack the diary

Max Blumenthal recently laid out the case the Zionist hatred is co dependent with Zionist project

they need each other. Need to be victims to justify their human rights violations of Palestinians

similar argument device used in the attack and HR of praenomen diary

identity politics and mindless support of Obama and democratic party are in full view

praenomen keep up the pressure!!!

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we are here because of the behavior of DK and the support of the status quo

here is the link to praenomen's diary in case you have not been there yet

for old timers this is business as usual on DK

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/01/1375006/-A-Response-to-Brooklyn...

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why this site was built, Don, an alternate platform.

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the boys in Lord of the Flies dancing around the fire and working themselves up for the hunt comes to mind. This picture, however, provides permission to use and is probably more accurate.

Angry-Mob (1).jpg

OMG JtC - first time for the image uploader. Sweet...

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

to make the site as user friendly as possible.

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shaharazade's picture

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

mimi's picture

have to try that out tomorrow.

Happy weekend.

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from your own hard drive. Either click the "Insert/Edit Image" button in the toolbar above the text editor or click the "Image" link below the text editor.

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gulfgal98's picture

When I did th open thread diary on Wed. I uploaded the images from Photobucket but i would rather not have to go through an additional step. I need to try the image uploader now. Wacko

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

added a tutorial on how to upload and embed an image in the FAQs.

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gulfgal98's picture

from having to send you frantic "Help" messages. Thanks again. Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mimi's picture

1453405_10201747162654948_1838046410_n.jpg
Smile

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NCTim's picture

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

great Open Thread, thanks bud.

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cybrestrike's picture

Great article about Rep. Donna Edwards' Senate Run at Alternet

"Senate Candidate Donna Edwards Fights the Establishment for the Soul of the Democratic Party" Great title, to boot.

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I couldn't resist. I just had to leave a comment. I'm tired of the mantle of liberalism being falsely claimed by or acclaimed to dailykos.

VanHollen and DailyKos are two peas in a pod. Never met a neoliberal proposal coming from the party they wouldn't support. Edwards is a breath of fresh air. Now all we need is a progressive blog site to support her, Warren and the rest of the Democrats trying to take the Democratic Party back from defecting Republicans.

Hope Edwards can win.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

cybrestrike's picture

But from I've learned from Markos is that he loves the horse race aspect of politics over policy nearly every single time. Hence the site's support for Loretta Lynch and Patrick Murphy. As long as Democrats "win", he's giddy. Of course, "winning" isn't the same in DC Beltway Pocket Universe as it is in the real world.

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Big Al's picture

fantasy sports leagues or cheering on their favorite college basketball team. They get into it the same way
and the only real goal is winning. I've always looked at the political conventions and saw the same type of people
with their funny hats and painted faces, cheering and booing at the direction of the conductor.
It is what most on Daily Kos are after, just to beat the republicans, it doesn't really matter what happens other than
that. If I was the ruling class I'd say I've got them right where I want them. Two sides, the people divided and
competing against themselves while they laugh all the way to THEIR banks.

And nice to see you cybrestrike.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

"Problem Solver" (No Labels).

Later, I've got an interesting screenshot and video of this Republican, turned Democrat in 2011, in order to run for his Florida seat in 2012!

Wink

Bottom Line: He's on board with "modernizing" Social Security, etc. (read cutting benefits)

IOW, he is a fiscal austerian like all the "No Labelers."

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

JayRaye's picture

thx cyberstrike!

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

gulfgal98's picture

When challenged that these are progressive pipedreams in a reactionary Republican-run Congress, Edwards takes a deep breath and calmly explains why it’s necessary to keep going. “I’m not saying it’s going to be easy,” she told one TV host, “but it is important for us to articulate an agenda that really responds to what women are experiencing in their lives; as breadwinners, as workers, and taking care of themselves and their families… 16.3 percent of women are in poverty now; that’s the highest it’s been in 17 years.”

While she talks about women in the above quoted material, it could apply to most Americans, especially people of color, young adults, the unemployed and under employed, or others whose lives have become an unnecessary struggle due to the short sightedness of our elected officials in Washington DC.

This has been a long standing gripe of mine. Pragmatism is the refuge of cowards. Pragmatism protects the status quo and the status quo is not acceptable. We need people of courage who can articulate an agenda for the people. Donna Edwards is one of those people.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

swat team.jpg

Juvenile prisoners in Michigan allege rape, abuse

Apparently, they are trying all these kids as adults. Minimum security jails are cheaper so governors are moving violent prisoners and rapists into them to save money.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

on the Iranian nuke talks...

Why Iran Distrusts the US in Nuke Talks

Exclusive: The mainstream U.S. media portrays the Iran nuclear talks as “our good guys” imposing some sanity on “their bad guys.” But the real history of the West’s dealings on Iran’s nuclear program shows bad faith by the U.S. government, as ex-CIA analyst Ray McGovern describes.

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mimi's picture

that Ray McGovern is a 9/11 truther or something like it.

Since that time I wonder what qualifies one to be categorized like that and what it is exactly supposed to mean. I don't read much of Ray McGovern and for some reason my guts tell me not to be too trusting of him, but I can't decide anymore if that is because I am pre-conditioned by remembering MB's judgment or if it's just the so-called famous gut's clearvoyance .

OT I found an article that might be of interest to Joe Shickspack and may be Don West. But to translate it, I have to wait til the weekend. Have to leave now.

Good Open Thread, NCTim. Thanks.

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Big Al's picture

Kissinger, Dick Cheney, George Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz regarding what happened on 9/11/01. It's a sad
thing to be so deluded on the one hand and so informed and understanding on the other.

To MB, that's tell him all he needs to know if someone doesn't believe the official story. To me, it tells me
all I need to know about him. Anyone that uses the term truther in a derogatory manner toward those that
are seeking the real truth about 9/11, which means in effect they believe the official story as certified by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld,
etc., shows their true colors.

And I'm sure they feel vice versa.

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mimi's picture

is by default a derogatory one. (I guess it is). Other than that I wouldn't want to draw any negative connotation vis a vis MB's opinion. I certainly believe he has not come to his conclusion totally unfounded. May be one day I get back to the issue and try to find out. Thanks.

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rather than trying to influence you one way or another, I'll just point you to a couple of links and let you read and form your own opinion.

Conspiracy Theory

Conspiracy Theories and how they are used to mute discussion.

Ray McGovern

And this bio from Ray McGovern's website.

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mimi's picture

because I got once a warning for posting a question that I didn't consider much of a violation of the CT 9/11 conspiratorial kind. So, I was baffled, but swallowed it. After that I also didn't have an appetite to read more about it. That is some years ago. MB made the comment about McGovern in one of the rare events he says something short and spontaneous later in another context, which I also forgot. That baffled me again. Since then I wanted to get a better picture as of when someone is considered a "truther".

I will read the links at a later time. Thanks.

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mimi's picture

pretty damning.

I hate the whole thing. So self-destructive. Heh, I want to read something "nicer". Or listen to some nice music and forget this shit. Very depressing.

Thanks for your efforts to provide me the links. The problem is, I am sick and tired to read that stuff. I got the picture a long time ago, and the picture is of a kind that I don't want to look into the details anymore.

I understand the mechanism of silencing. Well, as my sig says, you can't stop a brain from thinking, you can only stop the tongue from talking about what you think. Threaten to do so, is a "canary in the coal-mine" signal to me.

What a sad thing to witness.

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War in Afganistan, iraq War, Syrian War, war against ISIS, The Drug War, War against Christmas, war, war, war, on and on, everything is a war. But the most insidious is the War for your Mind. Television shows and commercials, MSM news, newspapers, movies, radio, blogs, etcetera, etcetera, it's all about influencing your perceptions, The War for your Mind. Most don't know or don't care that it's happening, but some do, and it doesn't work on everyone.

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mimi's picture

I really don't think I am not in support of tons of rights for women, but "the war on women" is getting on my nerves. It looks like we have to support any woman's talking points, because they are a woman, not because we agree with their specific talking points. So, another war being abused for all the wrong reasons.

Influencing our perceptions goes only so far. In the end they destroy the person's own will and it results in mental illness or in more lucky instances in being able to turn way from the influence. Something which is made tremendously difficult with the technologies since the 1990ies.

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Roger Fox's picture

I got to talk to him after hearing him speak years ago. I asked him about an article in the Washington Post concerning a tank truck of VX stopped in Turkey headed for Iraq right around the time we invaded, about 2003.

The context is, Brewster Jennings & Valerie Plame.

Some 3rd party in Iraq stopped the truck...... which is really weird. I asked Ray if he thought Brewster Jennings was the 3rd party, and that explains why Bush & Cheney came down on Valerie Plame real hard. Much harder than just because she was speaking out against the coming invasion. And wouldn't Bush & Cheney make sure there was WMDs in Iraq? HE said he and his friends always assumed that WMDs would be found in Iraq. What McGovern left unsaid is that Brewster Jennings busted Bush and Cheney trying to smuggle VX into Iraq.

Thats a lot of conjecture, but JC on a stick, how many times does something as crazy as a truck load of VX being busted in Turkey, actually hit the main stream press? This is crazy like the coup plot on FDR being front page on the NYT and vanishing down the rabbit hole.

As far as 9-11 whether Tim believes the official story or not, he'd have to tow the line at DK. I really dont know very many people that believe the official story. Being MIHOP or LIHOP is a separate issue IMHO. IF not believing the official story about 9/11 makes one a truther then thats what I am.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

mimi's picture

and refresh my memory. Be aware that readers like me don't even know what LIHOP and MIHOP was. When 9/11 happened and much of all the fuss discussions about CT around it later I was not aware of. I just happened to run many, many years later (by accident actually) in videos discussing the way the towers fell down and all of that. Apparently that were all "known knowna" to the all knowing writers and journalists on DK and "old stuff". To me it was not and I posted an innocent question about this. ... and got my first warning on DK. That was also the first time I became aware of how the site was surveilled for comments on issues and then "warned" as appropriate issue to talk about with the intention to exclude you from further commenting on DK.

So, basically, the DK site could only survive excluding any comments that included 9/11, I/P and Nazi/Hitler Germany. I accepted that for a long time as being reasonable considering the way people incite feelings and hate and bash each other online very badly.

It's only in the last two years or so I started to feel that this kind of excluding issues was not working in a way it probably was meant to work.

So, it's only last week I for the first time questioned the "rules" that are behind the exclusion of issues that can be talked about.

Whereas I can understand the fear of constant fights over I/P issues to be justified, and I can understand the futility to even try to find out the truth about the 9/11 attacks (given up that we will ever know - a fact I hate about most of the US traumatic events - they never are beyond a reasonable doubt clarified and give endless food for fictional pseudo-fact-finding writings), I find the Goodwin Law really a bit stupid.

But whatever, I don't have a dog in this fight. One can certainly read and write about Third Reich and Hitler and trying to limit it, is beyond my understanding.

Later someone told me that every diary and every comment is read by someone to check if they are appropriate. That is may be a year ago or so and I started to wonder about it all. I like the work of the diary rescue workers on DK, considering that it is such a hard thing to do. But then I hate the predator comment searchers, who use their surveillance of the site, to incite hate among readers and writers.

That's what makes the site so difficult to handle. I always find it more interesting, what is not written and talked about, and who does not comment on issues than the other way around. And I found that those people who would have the most knowledge and probably the most insightful comments to make, don't make them. With that in mind the site becomes a "noise machine". That again is really sad, because so many hard working writers give us a lot of detailed info and it's unfair and disrespectful to those, who get drowned in the "shouting out and against each other fights".

I regret those fights and wished people would be less personal in their attacks. You won't hear me saying "Obama is a war criminal", considering that there are so many people in the US, who really hate the guy just because he is black and not because they don't agree with what he implemented as his policies. It makes the whole personalized criticism of Obama a thing like a shot in your own feet.

Just yesterday three persons of different generations, who have certainly thought and read about racial, ethnic and religious discriminated, really told me one can not neglect that personal racist hate of people. It's something for me hard to imagine. The hate among people in the US is of a sort, I can't understand. I was asked, if Germans hate Obama, because he is black, and I was stunned about the question. We liked the guy over there, he was received with enthusiasm. So, no personalized hate and certainly not for his race. But that doesn't mean one can't be criticial of US foreign policies and feel "pressured" or disappointed of what is happening.

That's why I get annoyed if people mix up "racist emotions" with "being critical of policies, rerpesented by a black US president".

It's a very disappointing realization that this issue is used to divide and to incite the very hate one would like to avoid getting drawn into. Basically, it has me turned off completely by now. I don't want to be reminded of it, neither there, nor here.

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Big Al's picture

A bunch of white people getting angry at a bunch of other white people for telling them they play the race card?

Sure, there were a few black people involved, but mostly isn't that what it was? Is it a RW racist meme to tell
other WHITE people they're using the race card?

I don't know, maybe it is. The right wing has some real special people who are capable of saying anything. So they do
accuse others of using the race card. But is calling out people for using the race card solely a RW racist meme?
No, it's not. I've seen blacks call out other blacks for using the race card inappropriately.

But now we've got a whole bunch of indignant white people pissed off because they've been accused of using the race
card to justify their Obamabotism, and their support for the racist imperialist actions under the Obama administration.

As they say, the truth hurts.

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The worst offenders on DKos are whites, and that is weird considering the topic.
It's also weird considering the concept of identity politics that dominates DKos.

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mimi's picture

who is black and who isn't on dailykos. Unless they posted their real names and offered photos of them and other kossacks meet those persons in real life (something the CUA is involved in promoting), you can't know. I certainly can't keep up remembering if someone let readers know they are black. And from what I can see, they are not a monolithic bloc either over policy issues.

Everyone can claim he is anything onlne, so nothing has meaning with regards to "identity politics". Totally idiotic to even try.

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gulfgal98's picture

and since this is an open thread, I am going to post it. It is the Tedeschi Trucks band in an informal rehearsal with Jerry Douglas and Taj Majal. I love it.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

smiley7's picture

Morning all; thanks Tim and JTC.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/03/1375356/-For-a-Political-Revolu...
Don't miss Sen Bernie's diary. It's as if someone planted a flower in a weed bed.
Enjoy today.

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Will dkos kick him out if he runs as an Independent and against Hillary? I'd bet on it.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Big Al's picture

If not, Markos would then be even more hypocritical than he is now.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

I don't think so.

Kos is only worried about someone who is very likely to defeat FSC, IMO.

(An establishment candidate like O'Malley might be a concern, for instance.)

He would "welcome" someone who would energize the Base, hoping that they would transfer this energy over to FSC once she gets the nomination.

I hear him on Mark Thompson's Sirius/XM radio program, where he's a weekly guest.

I assure everyone, Kos is WELL AWARE OF the lack of enthusiasm for, and obstacles that FSC faces with the Dem Party Base.

He's on on Thursdays, IIRC. (Joan sometimes fills in for him.)

It's incredible how frank he is!

(Admittedly, I don't listen every week. But I'm going to have to discipline myself to do so. BTW, he takes phone calls--it can be quite entertaining, and surreal.)

Wink

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

During the day, she was all over dailykos. She was a resident hero. As time went on and Cindy got fed up the Democrats too, she decided to run for office as an Independent. The tribe kicked her off dailykos

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Unabashed Liberal's picture

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

I just went to HuffPo and the top line was "Peace Prez".
I threw up in my mouth.

The next lines under it were: THE MAN WHO MAY HAVE STOPPED A WAR... 'Practical Peacemaker'... 'A Way To Be Worthy Of The Nobel Peace Prize'...

Look, I support the deal with Iran. I think the whole standoff with Iran is a leftover from the Cold War that like Cuba, should have ended decades ago.
But this "peace prez" is bombing SIX nations. He refused to prosecute torturers. The Nobel Prize was a joke.

How low our standards have fallen.

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Big Al's picture

how Obama has earned his Nobel Peace Prize with the negotiations with Iran. No, the Iran deal is not a deal,
it's all intended to extend the game with the ultimate goal still to take down the Iranian regime. The mere fact
that Israel has all it's nukes and it's not in the discussion is proof enough that it's all been kabuki.

The bottom line, and I can't say this enough, Obama is a War Criminal just the same as George Bush. His wars and military actions
have been just as illegal as Bush's were, and the resultant casualties on par. There is no doubt in my mind.
So any talk about a Nobel Peace Prize is absurd and on the same level as talking about Henry Kissinger.
Obama is Kissinger.

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Big Al's picture

http://www.moonofalabama.org/

Thoughts On That Maybe-Deal About Iran's Nuclear Achievements

"There are many distortions and lies in the "western" reporting on the issue. Facts that are left out include:
•The whole crisis over a "nuclear Iran" is manufactured based on lies from Israeli and U.S. intelligence services. The target of the U.S. and Israeli operations was never a "nuclear Iran" but an Iranian Islamic Republic that insists on independent internal and foreign policies.
•Iranian leaders have declared that any weapons of mass destruction contradict the philosophical and religious base of the Islamic State of Iran. They have insisted on this and did not retaliate even when their cities came under chemical attacks during the Iraq-Iran war.
•All U.S. intelligence services agree that Iran does not have any military nuclear program. There is nothing to fear from a pure civil nuclear program in Iran.
•All sanctions on Iran are illegal in the very first place. They have no basis in facts or law."

"Indeed, given Obama's very aggressive foreign policy thus far I can not exclude that war on Iran is his real aim and only hidden behind very public but sham negotiations to make a public case for it."

I agree, I think it's all a setup. The thing with Yahoo coming to Congress and all that, kabuki. Major theatrics. There is nothing,
absolutely nothing, to indicate the U.S. and Israel are going to change their ways. Not going to happen.

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mimi's picture

in business or being in it again. Just read a couple of articles over there and was surprised. I have forgotten if Billmon's identity is known or not. In any case, good to know it's still there and they are still writing. Can't forget the site, because Brecht's play, the "Dreigroschenoper" and the songs in there were my favorite record I listened to in the early sixties as a teenager. Brecht was read by German kids in highschool during the fifties and sixties and the songs of the Dreigroschenoper quite well known. My father's favorite was "Meckie Messer" (here sang by Brecht himself) and mine was "Surabaya Johnny', sang by Lotte Lenya.

Sorry just was drawn into old memories. So many things lost in my memory. That's how I became fond of the Moon of Alabama site some day back in the earlier days of DK.

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Roger Fox's picture

Its something the Roxers can cheer for.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Unabashed Liberal's picture

Grand Bargain -- 3rd Thumbnail Photo.png
[Photo Credit: Grand Bargain Watch -- Save Social Security, Donkey Hotey's Photostream, Flickr]

ensuing faux budget crisis set for this Fall--and the apparent collapse of a contingency at DKos that is willing to push back on the Grand Bargain (deep cuts to Social Security, and further cuts to Medicare)--I'm asking that Caucus Members who run across excellent links to articles regarding the President's call to 'end the sequester,' please consider either posting the links, or directing me to them.

It would be so much appreciated.

My project is to "Tweet" out this info, and embed the Tweets at several blogs, hoping that the progressive blogging community will give a whit.

Of course, ending the Sequester means trading off "nondiscretionary spending" on Social Security, Medicare, etc., for "discretionary spending--since all budget negotiations will be 'revenue neutral.'

(The same for "tax reform"--any changes, including loophole closing--will be revenue neutral, essentially 'shifting the deck chairs.')

I can only imagine that the 'spin' will be the same type that we heard regarding the recent Medicare cuts included in the "Doc Fix" legislation.

Unless we manage to get ahead of the game (pre-spin), many activists may not realize what is going on--before it's too late.

Thanks.

Mollie

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

Big Al's picture

Will do. I've been saying for awhile that we're closing in on the 20 trillion national debt mark.
They're going to make a big deal out of it and want to take it out of our skins, not theirs.
I remember writing a diary at DK years ago saying by 2020 the national debt would be over
20 TRILLION. I was wrong. It's almost there now, will be by the Presidential election. One of the
reasons the Fed won't raise interest rates, if it did the interest on the national debt would kill us.
I also said years ago we'd be paying a trillion per year on interest alone to the national debt.
Not like I was Nostradamus, it's all simple math.

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