How to spot the corporate shills amongst us.

There has been an obvious infiltration of corporate shills on C99. And I'm not talking the blatant ones recently. I'm talking people who have been here all along, pretending to be our friends when in reality, they're trying to subtly defuse any populist movement getting behind Jill Stein.

But before I start pointing out examples of their activities on C99, just as I once did on TOS - which is what got me banned from there the first time - take a moment to read what Caitlin Johnstone wrote in How to spot a shill in 8 easy steps.

In an address to the Green party convention, Julian Assange warned Jill Stein voters that Hillary’s online paid shills will be relentless in their attacks in the coming weeks.

“… let me tell you that I’ve just seen that the attacks have started to ramp up on Jill Stein. They are going to go through the roof. I’ve had attacks from what is effectively the Clinton threat machine. They’re now post-convention. You guys are going to be post-convention. Those attacks are going to be ferocious. But you’ll see from that and learn lessons from that about how the media works and how one can defend your principles and ideas in the face of that kind of media corruption.”

What does that even mean, though? It means that even if you’re a light user of social media, you will probably be trolled at some point. And you probably won’t even know it.

To sum up the 8 ways for the TL;DR crowd:

1: I'm just like you!: The corporate shills are already in place, earning street cred here all along.
2: Bait And Switch: "I love Jill Stein, but...."
3: Someone told me this rumor about Jill, can you check it out for me?: Casting suspicion while attempting to seem innocent. The goal is to suppress your enthusiasm.
4: Divide and Conquer: Jill is anti-vaccine. Doesn't matter if it's a lie, so long as it suppresses enthusiasm.
5: Self-Fulfilling Prophecies: The old narrative was Clinton was "inevitable". The new one is Stein is a "wasted vote".
6: Decoy Insults: Again, going to the 'wasted vote' meme, insulting you for the consequences of voting for Jill. But it requires you to buy into the Jill can't win meme to even make sense.
7: Astroturfing: when Hillary pays people to attend her rallies.
8: Divide And Demoralize: Remember the violent Bernie supporters who threw chairs, etc.? yeah, didn't happen. but it was used to suppress enthusiasm and seed doubt.

So let's see how these tactics have been applied at C99.

First off, let's face a fact: The only viable candidate for former Bernie supporters is Jill Stein. The Green Party is 95% the same platform as Bernie's revolution. You're not going to find what you're looking for from Clinton, Trump or Johnson. And there isn't time to start a brand new party. Who would even be the candidate? No. The only alternative to Bernie has always been Jill Stein.

Having cheated Bernie out of the election, the shills must do everything they can to suppress enthusiasm for Jill Stein.

From an essay in April I don't want to link to because I'm not trying to call people out here, just educate everyone: (in response to a comment that the poster would vote for Jill if Bernie didn't win)

What do you expect to accomplish by voting Green?

Goals, purpose? It's obvious Jill Stein can't win, so what the goal of voting for the Green party? Is it a protest vote? Trying to build the Green party up?

Notice the poster is either a shill, reinforcing the "Jill can't win" meme from the get go, or passing that meme on because it's been drilled into his head so hard he believes it. No one thought Bernie had a chance in hell once upon a time too.

In the above case it's most likely a paid shill. further down that thread, another poster pointed out that

you've been pushing this "boycott" thing all day, and it just makes zero sense. Many others besides myself have told you this, and yet you continue to push it and push it pretty persistently. Kudos for you to be such a believer of your own ideas--one has to have faith in one's self, after all--but it's as if you and a bunch of other folks didn't already have this same conversation 18 hours ago in a different comment thread/post.

Yes indeed, there's room for differing opinions here--so I expect mine to matter, too. And IMO, there are "opinions" and then there's "pointed repetition". This is probably a really good time to point out that there are a whole lot of quite-savvy veterans and refugees of Trial Balloon Central that have migrated here, whose Spidey sense at sussing out pointed repetition has gotten pretty damned accurate over the years,

Of course, the possible shill doesn't want someone pointing out their tactics so the possible shill then told the above poster to "stay the fuck away from me."

Immediately, of course, the shills street creds were massaged by another poster telling him to "Just keep being you." Because these shills work as teams. Of course, that could also have simply been the shills sock puppet.

And of course, the person in question might not even be a shill at all. That's what makes them so successful, they convince the masses to buy into their negativity.

I intended to show a lot of examples, including one in which two posters - I noticed they tend to work in pairs on C99 - were saying Jill Stein was arrogant. But to do so would inevitably end up exposing actual posters on here and some of them might be innocent dupes getting played. I have no desire to start that shit storm. I only desire to open people's eyes.

the bottom line is this: The shills are here. Their goal is to suppress enthusiasm for Jill Stein. Reinforce the "wasted vote" meme whenever possible - though that's become less and less successful on this site. Reinforce the "Jill can't win" meme has had greater success. Keep pushing for any other option than Jill (starting a new party, one with no leader lol). And, of course, defeatist essays and comments.

There are far more Stein supporters than the MSM would have you think. She CAN win this. They'll do anything to keep you from believing that.

Or, as Caitlin put it:

In the end, you can only make yourself aware that these things are going on, scroll past anyone who is obviously baiting, and keep your focus set on the positives of your candidate, and the future you want to create. Educate yourself about your candidate and her vision and enthuse about her relentlessly, and don’t engage anyone casting suspicion or trying to tell you your vote is being wasted. Just press “like”. That really confuses them.

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Comments

Pricknick's picture

"Sometimes we have to sacrifice our values to do what's best for the country."

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Alligator Ed's picture

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detroitmechworks's picture

Edit: was supposed to be a reply... even the vets can screw up. Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

I was wondering why Jill Stein was being attacked on a site like this.
I felt like I was back at DK when I saw that.

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EJF

jwa13's picture

and generally call them out in the Comments when it becomes too blatant --

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

Alphalop's picture

at least at places like this where people spend more time critically thinking about the arguments and facts.

Now on Facebook? They are having a LOT more success. It's downright rampant there, but there is also quite a bit of push-back but it will be less effective push-back simply because few people delve deep into the comments and when they come across a longish one (which is usually what it takes to debunk the lie with credible links/sources) the Short Attention Span Theater crowd tend to glaze over it or give a TLDR while also claiming the counter argument wasn't valid. (Odd considering if they didn't read it or verify the citations how would they be able to have an opinion on the validity?)

I think ultimately it is gonna backfire on them, because as more and more people discuss these tactics, more and more people will recognize them.

I strongly suspect that those people, much like myself, will have a bit of a reaction when they discover that not only were they lied to, they were lied to deliberately by paid operatives of the party that they are a member of.

It's bad when a stranger lies to you, but when someone or something you trust betrays that trust people seem to take it just a tad personal, lol!

Like every other move the DLC has pulled for decades, they tend to work for the short term but then place the party in an even more difficult situation over the long term.

I am willing to wager that within the next 2 years DNC membership numbers drop well below the 30% mark regardless of whether Clinton wins successfully steals the election or not.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Anja Geitz's picture

Largely bc all of us Bernie supporters have been down this road before and know the sign posts well.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

At this point I'm voting for Jill Stein...

If these shills piss me off enough I'm going to double down and vote for trump...
IDGAF...

If it will help the New Democratic Party find their bottom it's fine with me...

Try Me!

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
Dhyerwolf's picture

I've seen too many friends that I thought were smart post things that actively worked to throw Jill Stein under the bus. Some of these people responded well when I pointed this out (making me think it was just misinformation), but some of them have fought tooth and nail against every piece of evidence I posted. The second group may never learn.

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lunachickie's picture

they fight tooth and nail because they don't want you or anyone else to learn. They know exactly what they're doing.

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elenacarlena's picture

It's hard to understand something that your paycheck depends on you not understanding? Something like that.

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Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

Makes me feel violent like bashing face...
Please excuse me in advance when I rip their head off and defecate down their necks...

I try so hard to control myself around these trolls...

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
Thaumlord-Exelbirth's picture

Just point out how Hillary already didn't win, and link to the election fraud stories.

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WaterLily's picture

LOL -- perfect.

Thanks for the essay. It's good reinforcement. I'm noticing similar behavior lately in essays that raise questions about HRC's health/judgement/positions/server/etc. It's the "I don't like HRC but ..." tactic. Once again, trying to beat down dissent in order that we all give up and vote for her after all.

Don't let it happen, folks.

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Alphalop's picture

I didn't post the thought because I didn't want to call people out without absolute certainty,, but what was going through my head was, "This, 'I am not a Clinton supporter, but...' is awfully reminiscent to those, 'I am not a racist, but...' Statements."

If you have to preface your statement with, "I am not a (insert whatever here), but..." it automatically gets me wondering. Not saying there are not times when it is appropriate to do so, but so many, so frequently, almost feels somehow coordinated. (Not that this could possibly be the case, lol!)

When I was a kid my grandma used to say, "The truth always follows the but..." (I won't tell you for how many years I totally misinterpreted that as "Butt", lol!) and I have found that to be an almost universal truth.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Hillbilly Dem's picture

Reminds me of a similar lesson I learned years ago. In any discussion, when someone uses the word "but", immediately disregard everything they've said up to the word "but" and pay close attention to everything they say thereafter. Works for me, too.

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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey

Sandino's picture

I don't like Hillary butt!

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They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore

jwa13's picture

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When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.

Alphalop's picture

My other favorite was whenever I would say, "I wish (something)" her response would always be, "Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first."

She turns 100 this February, got a party planned! Smile

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

enhydra lutris's picture

shit like "Coughing fits can be an indicator of epilepsy" is pretty far out there. That's not even in the top 10 suspects for coughing fits. Interjecting a reminder that wild speculation without access to the patient or their records isn't standard medical technique isn't "trying to beat down dissent". Especially when so many are buying it.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

lunachickie's picture

you might be referring to some of the commenters, not the OP. The OP was clear that it was speculative discussion.

Like any discussion, no one can control the reaction of others to any thoughts put out in the domain. What those others may or may not "buy" in a given discussion should be their own responsibility, not yours or mine.

Contrary to what some say, most blogs really can survive a melee of speculative thought Wink

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Alligator Ed's picture

Did you read any of the cited articles to see if therein a medical literature confirmation for what admittedly is speculative, but certainly not wild. Stay tuned for some more speculation on Hillary's neuropathology.

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Alligator Ed's picture

From Borkrom

I have found if you ask anyone a reasonable questions and they can not support or explain their position, opinions or arguments then guess they move on from the discussion. If someone pesters you then ignore them and the pest will fly away

Coughing fits can be an indicator of epilepsy

is pretty far out there. You know what else is "pretty far out there"--dural sinus thrombosis (DST) which has a yearly incidence of 2.7 to 7 cases per million. If someone had said on December 15, 2012 that Hillary would develop or already had developed a DST, you could call it "pretty far out there". Also, I distinctly requested that HRC make her medical records available.

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would stay the hell away from here. Here's a tip for all of you shills. Even if you could smear Jill enough for me not to vote for her, I will NEVER vote for clinton. But I will vote. Now which would hurt your phony candidate more. Me voting for Jill or me voting for trump...? So go ahead and smear Jill. Maybe you'll convince me. Oh, and it would be a safe bet that I'm not the only one who feels this way...

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Alphalop's picture

This? This just puts an extra bit of incentive behind it.

Ultimately, my goal is to help build a viable new party, but the immediate short term necessity is to keep Clinton out of the White House. She would be more damaging to both the nation and to the progressive movement than Trump could ever hope to achieve with the support she has of the NeoCons and Hawks already behind her.

If I gotta choose between 4 more years of Gridlock or 4 years of Clinton pushing her hawkishness while undermining banking and finance regulations even further I know which choice I gotta make.

I'll take the Gridlock Shit Sandwich over the WarHawk Shit Sandwich every time.

Not that I'll take a bite of it, it's going straight to the rubbish bin too, but it's less likely to get all over my hands on the way.

The Gridlock sandwich is slightly less slimy and way less bloody...

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

With a clinton defeat the message will be loud and clear. The American people don't want what you are selling. And she couldn't even beat The Donald, a self-destructing imbecile. And hopefully the end of the CRT - Clinton Reign of Terror. A clinton win? Heavens forbid.
OK, I think I'm starting to talk myself out of voting for Jill...

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lunachickie's picture

Every time I read that stuff, I'm like "Keep it up, all it does is strengthen my resolve to stick to my guns". At this point, it's really not going to need any help, this "staying resolved" thing. There is no circumstance under which I would vote for her, short of an actual gun pointed at my head. And even then it might be debatable.

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The Clintons wrecked my home state, and much of the rest of the country, with their policies. The both pushed hard for NAFTA. They both helped shred the social safety net. They both pushed hard for "harsh" (racist) sentencing laws, got the privatized prison ball rolling so that their friends could have slaves again, and call Kissinger a "great man", and not a war criminal. I'm short three friends from my youth, due to lack of jobs, and adequate medical care. I call that direct casualties of Clinton-era policy. So... Not even with a gun to my head. It would be like spitting on their ashes.

But here's my dilemma. I hate Trump almost as much. And it feels so unfair that I do; after all he's not a war criminal, just an egotistical spoiled, clueless rich kid sociopath, implicated by association with the same child-sex trafficker that keeps getting mentioned with regards to Bill Clinton. Most of Trump's economic fuck-ups have been personal, not national, and he hasn't managed to start any wars nearly single-handed. So why do I hate that man misogynist child so much? Why would I rather be vivisected by space aliens rather than suffer through 4 years of that guy bloviating from the bully pulpit? If only I could hate them both enough. I feel so inadequate.

-BUT, that reminds me, I've also heard plenty of pro-Trump, "he's not THAT bad" stuff around here, so maybe the paid trolls are not ONLY being pooted out of the donkey's arse. I smell the occasional elephant shit, too.

I'm voting for the NON-criminals. Stein / Baraka. At this point, I don't even think my vote will be counted. I just want to piss off the Dems. -And the Republic Party too, of course. As somebody else wrote here at C99P, "Vote Green or die!"

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"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

Thumb's picture

I've had too many people tell me my 3rd party vote is "actually a vote for Trump." And my stock response now has been, "Oh, no, my 3rd party vote is actually a vote for Hillary, so STFU!" They don't know how to take it.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

No, Bernie just still believes in LOTE voting, much like Reich, Chomsky, and others. Either that, or they don't see Hillary as evil as I see her. That's their prerogative, but it doesn't mean they know something I don't. It means only that their views are different from mine on this point. Or, they have no idea what else to do.

In my opinion, the fastest and most thorough way to lose everything for which I worked and donated during the primary is to support a Third Way Democrat; and Hillary, being the only female founding member of the DNC is the Queen of all Third Way Democrats.

"One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result."

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A vote for Jill will hopefully be registered, #1, and then will be the only real protest vote. A Stein vote will register as a vote for a very good platform. That's how I will treat my vote anyway. I do agree that the troll shit will get intense, especially since more and more are shifting to a Green vote. Is there any good current polling on Stein ?

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elenacarlena's picture

voters under 30: Trump 10%, Jill 16%, Gary Johnson 23%, Hill 41%. This is an improvement, and if it spread to older voters would get the 3rd and 4th parties on the debate stage.

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mouselander's picture

I've seen this one pop up quite frequently. Stein's selection of Ajamu Baraka brought a lot of "Shucks, I really wanted to vote for Jill" trolls out of the woodwork - not just here, but on other leftist / progressive sites such as The Progressive Wing and Jack Pine Radicals as well. And that said, I don't doubt for a minute that some of these posters are completely sincere and not pursuing any kind of hidden agenda.

But I think this is something the CTR crowd is counting on - they touch what they know to be a sore spot among former Bernie supporters (Oh, look - Baraka wrote something insulting about Bernie Sanders!), and then step back while the enraged Sanders loyalists pile on. Never mind that what Jill's veep candidate wrote about Bernie in a blog post a year ago is about as important as a gnat on an elephant's butt in the greater scheme of things.

I keep waiting for a candidate to come along who registers a solid 100 percent on my personal candidate desirability meter - sadly, that day has not yet come to pass. And I'm starting to get the sneaky impression that it probably never will. So I am enthusiastically supporting Jill Stein because, while not absolutely perfect, she is still light years ahead of any of her competitors on all of the issues that are most important to me.

For those who offer specious reasons for jumping off the Jill bandwagon - well, I can't help wondering how genuine their commitment ever was to supporting her in the first place.

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inactive account

on that "desirability meter" as far as a vote for Jill. After what we've all seen I just cannot, cannot, cannot vote for the Shill. I no longer care if my vote is "wasted" either - that's only an opinion of waste after all, and a real waste would be to vote for the same thing again and expect a different result. None of us asked Bernie for solid perfection, but we listened to him and believed him and there's just no going back from there, not for me either.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Alphalop's picture

their platform has too many contentious issues in it that are going to be incredibly divisive, such as reparations, that will prevent it from ever being the "new" progressive party, as well as having quite a bit of negative preconceptions about it, some warranted, many more that are not, but they exist nevertheless.

So for me, the green party is more like a nice hotel, I will stay here till I find my new home, and am quite comfortable with most of it's features, but I know it's not a place I will be resting my head permanently.

The best path for progressives moving forward is the formation of a new progressive party that doesn't come with any preconceived notions or baggage, but also breaking the duopoly is a key component to doing so, and building up the green party certainly helps with that.

I envision a New Progressive Party and The Green Party working together in a solid coalition against the 2 current right wing parties we are presently saddled with.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

mouselander's picture

completely regarding your reservations about the Green Party platform. To reach a critical mass of support, any alternative / third party is going to have to focus like a laser beam on issues on which their is a broad consensus among the general public, and which is at odds with the agenda of the elites. It's necessary to have the discipline and farsightedness not to get distracted by more controversial, second-tier issues that are far more likely to divide than unite.

Like you, I'm embracing the Green Party in this election, because Jill Stein is far and away the "progressive" candidate with the best chance to actually attract a meaningful number of voters. After Nov. 8 it will be a new ballgame. Would love to see your scenario of a new progressive party, without the Greens' baggage, come to pass. One thing we can be sure of: HRC will be as much, or likely more, of a disaster for middle and lower income Americans as were the last two neoliberal Democrats, and that therefore as the months and years roll on there will be a greater and greater number of people willing to consider an alternative to the duopoly. Our job will be to make that alternative look as strong and credible as possible.

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inactive account

thanatokephaloides's picture

So for me, the green party is more like a nice hotel, I will stay here till I find my new home, and am quite comfortable with most of it's features, but I know it's not a place I will be resting my head permanently.

That's why I advocate the Pirate Party. (Never worry, I'm still planning on voting Stein in 2016!)

Smile

Jill Stein 2016: because fuck this shit!

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

The coalition of Democrats and Republicans.

I envision a New Progressive Party and The Green Party working together in a solid coalition against the 2 current right wing parties we are presently saddled with.
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Beware the bullshit factories.

is needed, and desired by many. But I have to question whether strengthening the Green Party is the optimal path to that goal. Maybe a few years of wandering in the wilderness would be preferable to camping out in such an ideologically exclusive hotel?

I really don't think people should be accused if being shills, just for having reservations about supporting the Green Party. My own doubts about it are not primarily ideological,, but rather strategic.

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native

I'll admit to some dismay over the VP pick. It is highly doubtful that Stein could win the whole thing, but what could be accomplished is getting a solid foot on the stage with the corporate candidates, so as to continue the one truly great thing Bernie was able to get accomplished: changing the conversation. Her VP pick diminishes her shot at it. No slam on the individual, but he is completely unknown to the vast majority of people, which on its own reduces their chances and reinforces the idea that the Green Party are deluded fringies. And in

That said, I will probably to change my registration from indie (after decades as a Dem, I exited a few years ago) to Green and join the delicious nutty fruity fringe.

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lunachickie's picture

that one made me roll my eyes, it's become such a predictable template.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

then decided that Jill was still worth supporting whether I approved of, or had doubts about, her VP choice or not.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Alligator Ed's picture

Most of us have thought about Hillary's choice of Tim Kaine for VP. Wunnerful, huh? How many HillBots are going to change their votes because of that? Vote Green.

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Shahryar's picture

Bernie, running as a Democrat, was a very good option for all the reasons everyone talks about: ballot access, media access, money access, a spot in debates.

But his foreign policy has been iffy. I use "iffy" as meaning not up to where it should be. As meaning supportive of foreign misadventures.

If he had been the Dem nominee he would have won the election, while Jill Stein has no chance. The Greens have no chance in 2016 but maybe someday....if they grow and get votes.

on a side note, re: Baraka....I too am not overjoyed with the selection although I have nothing against him. He's right! But I would have liked to have seen someone like Kshama Sawant, someone better known and already elected to something. That doesn't make me a shill! And it also doesn't make me NOT vote Green. We've always been concerned about issues, not people....right? I mean, forget the Bernie idolatry. When it comes down to it we like/d him because of the issues. So whoever is running on the Green ticket is kind of secondary.

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Meteor Man's picture

May be influenced by Vermont War Racketeers:

We’ve never had a trade show just for the aerospace and aviation industries,” said Chris Carrigan, the chamber’s vice president of business development. The organization has held 14 “matchmaking” sessions for the industries since 2008, where high-level procurement specialists for companies such as Raytheon, Cessna, General Dynamics, Boeing, Rolls Royce and Bombardier meet representatives from Vermont-based companies that manufacture parts they need.

And

In addition to manufacturers of parts that range from precision cable connectors to radar shields, exhibitors included auditing and certification providers, supply chain management companies, networking and security specialists, state and federal business resource agencies and schools that train kids and adults for careers in nearly all of those fields.

http://vtdigger.org/2013/08/08/aviation-and-aerospace-industries-land-in...

Bernie has been very busy making Vermont a safe place for manufacturing weapons of mass destruction.

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

thanatokephaloides's picture

Bernie has been very busy making Vermont a safe place for manufacturing weapons of mass destruction.

But does that mean that Bernie advocates mass destruction? No, not really.

Right now, endless war is where all the money the 0.01% doesn't already have is. Bernie, being a Senator from Vermont, just wants to make sure that Vermont gets its share of all that pork.

The only fix for that is to get out of the endless war business. We haven't had a Presidential Candidate advocate directly for that since Carter. And Mr. Carter was a weak advocate, and the only one we've had since Eisenhower.

I'm old enough to remember Raytheon consumer products. Sad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

For example, he talked about Iran, and how US supported coups led to the current government there. He was also pretty honest about the situation in the Middle East and he didn't cave at that debate in Florida when Hillary and the debate "moderators" were trying to tar Bernie for allegedly supporting Castro.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Ajaradom's picture

and Bernie said that bird was symbolic --- "...a dove asking for world peace....no more wars". I now question even the fucking reality of the little bird --- lol oh what a mess! Smile

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mimi's picture

out who is a snarky shill or whatever, you make a big mistake. Go back to the source material, read material that was linked, books or print press material, and make up your own mind. Believe in what you want and that's your choice. I am even not interested in knowing who you vote for, why you support or hate whom.

All this stuff is just a dispensary of daily drugs to keep you "attached and attracted and a pawn for manipulation".

I came here for the EB and a little bit of discussion of the article presented. The original crew who writes the morning OTs is so valuable, I will come for them. And once in a while I read some other diaries. It would be nice, if one wouldn't get distracted with snarky fluff.

Strangely enough, after having questioned myself so much about what I might do, I have found now my answer. One day, if I accomplish what I want to do, I'll let you know. Up til then I just shut up and read the EB and the OTs.

That's not to mean that your diary is valuable to those, who really won't get when manipulations in seductive formats is poured over their heads and when not.

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mimi

The fact is that all that money they have will need to go somewhere and trolling us seems an obvious way to spend it. I'll just plead with any paid trolls here to please, for the sake of the World, listen to your conscience.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

All of the original people here were known by someone before they came. Have trolls arrived since? Probably. But this life boat did not have trolls in it when it shoved off from dailykos. For months, we were a small group of castaways, each very different from one another, and yet, all seeking a place to speak our minds freely without being called names and attacked because what we think doesn't fit the Hillary, Bernie, black, white mold.

Please quit looking for dank and dark ulterior motives for folks here. Unless you have proof, you are just sitting in judgement because their politics don't fit yours. We range from anarchist to traditionalists, very left to left of center, pacifists to anti-war and everywhere in between. We are here because we fit no mold and don't want to.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

that this is a nonpartisan site. It is not a Hillary Clinton site, it is not a Donald Trump site, it is not a Bernie Sanders site, and it is not a Jill Stein site.

Perhaps it would benefit many of you to go back to the very first essays written for this site and work your way up to July, 2016, before the Great Migration. Then you may gain more understanding about what this site is, was, and always meant to be.

Again, this is a nonpartisan site and will not be ruled by a mob.

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enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Raggedy Ann's picture

We are all going to vote our conscious anyway, so don't sweat the small stuff. Dirol

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

hecate's picture

they're everywhere. So are the trolls and the agents and the mutants. They're crawling, man, right up your ass! I CAN SEE THEM! For fuck's sake, we need to go to the blowtorches. And burn those babies. Burn 'em right out. And, but good.

I see I've been posting here about a year longer than you have. Are you aware that this was never a fucking Sanders site, and it is not now a fucking Stein site?

I would no more vote for Jill Stein, than I would vote for Frankenstein. I don't vote, and, when I do, I will vote for Annabella Piugattuk.

And I am not a shill, or a troll, or an agent. I am, however, and absolutely, a mutant. A free human being. Alive on this earth.

And so is Big Al. Who was here, before you were born. And who you're going after, with your second and third blockquotes.

Could you, please, kindly, shut the fuck up? About him being a "paid shill"?

I fear, that something, it is deeply wrong with you. And I know, that everybody, who recced this reeking tire-fire, should put paper bags over their heads, to there hide, in their Shame.

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Big Al's picture

Look at all the people that rec'd this shit.

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elenacarlena's picture

Damn. I was hoping you could get me a gig.

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CS in AZ's picture

I'm just a newbie with a few months under my belt around here, but I still remember you from way back when you were still at GOS, and your username included a state up in the northwest. You've been consistent and sincere forever!

I don't always agree with you, but I always appreciate your posts and that you are outside the box and try to make people think. I can't believe this post and I read it shaking my head in amazement that anyone would call you a shill! Unbelievable. So absurd it's beyond comprehension. And beyond the attack on you personally, I'm thinking really? Now we all have to jump on the Jill stein bandwagon OR ELSE! Seriously what the fucking fuck!?! That's the exact same fucking bullshit kos started spewing about his chosen one. I really hope this site isn't going there too.

I loved this site from the day I found it because that isn't what this place is about. People here are allowed to have and express their own views - even radical ones! As it should be.

I've been considering a vote for stein, but not entirely sold. I'm sure as hell not going to be bullied into it with name calling or this ridiculous attempt to silence dissent. I also am not sold on your position that not voting makes any kind of statement, and I've wished for time & place to hash it out with you Al. I truly respect your views and the strength of your commitment to your values. You do not deserve this treatment here, that's one thing I know for damn sure.

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elenacarlena's picture

Not going there is what makes this site great.

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hecate's picture

ignorant, sheep.

All of them.

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... & am extremely thankful to have found people like you & Hecate posting here. There are so many ways that the world could be arranged, but isn't. Seems to me that people need to have that pointed out at least periodically.

So thank you all, c99p founders & veterans ... I think I'll go out & stand in the warm rain that's falling outside.

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Shahryar's picture

I mean, a foodfight!

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ala Daily Kos.

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hecate's picture

after these people, whoever the fuck they are, are done stoning to death Al, as a "paid shill," they're coming after your ass, shah, because your well-known affection for Merseybeat, that is, and without doubt, indicative of some sort of congenital anti-Stein shillness, that must, and at once, be Stopped.

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enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Shahryar's picture

I posted tunes for awhile until I hit my lazy phase. But here are some choice numbers, starting with the Searchers

Ian and the Zodiacs

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davidincleveland's picture

also seem to be under the misapprehension that this site's commenters/essayists have to be Green Party supporters, to have any credibility.

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gulfgal98's picture

for always being the voice of reason in any discussion, David. Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

I said there are paid shills on here. There are. It's a fact. Who they are? Each of us will have to decide. I never named Big Al. He outed himself. That was silly. I even went so far as to say this anonymous poster

might not even be a shill at all.

But go ahead and act all insulted.

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Sandino's picture

Are you accusing someone of being trollish and dickish by innuendo? That would be pretty rich.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

That's what I really find interesting. There have been a hundred thousand quotes since April. Do you seriously mean to say that you instantly recalled who said something from a conversation, one in thousands, four months ago?

I wonder how that's possible? Did a search turn it up? My searches on here are useless. I can't find anything. I only found that quote because I went through my own conversations.

So to me, for anyone to recognize a snippet from four months ago is pretty amazing.

What did your wife say, dec. 3rd, 2004? I've never met so many with such instant recall before. Do it again.

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it immediately.

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I felt pretty confident no one would get their feathers ruffled from a snippet of a conversation four months ago in the comments section.

My bad. I guess people have much greater memories than I do.

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me a liar?

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gulfgal98's picture

Dude, you are seriously treading on very thin ice here. Our main rule is do NOT be a bad ass. In this essay alone, you have insulted far too many people including this site's administrator.

I will say it again. We are a non-partisan site. We welcome spirited discussion, but we will not tolerate personal insults and unfounded public accusations toward other members here.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

you've done your fair share of shit stirring since you came here, I've had to warn you several times about violating our only rule, DBAA. Anybody that doubts that can go to his profile and read his comments for yourself.

I'm tired of you being disrespectful and rude to the members here and these shilling accusations towards members that have been here since the inception of this site are over the top.

You're out of here.

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Cachola's picture

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Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

OLinda's picture

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- - - -
If you don't like the Mafia, why don't you join it and change it from the inside?

elenacarlena's picture

over many comments, not just one from several months ago.

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CS in AZ's picture

It's really not "amazing" for people to get to know the regular posters here and be familiar with their comments and points of view. Your target was plain as day to many of us.

What is amazing to me is that you would launch such a missile in the first place, and that so many people here rec it up. Furthermore, your accusations in this post that any dissent from the Jill Stein is the new savior POV must be a paid shill is absurd and insulting.

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Jill Stein got 0.36% of the vote in the last presidential election. This time around, she has an excellent chance to top 5% of the vote, which makes the Green Party a "real" party eligible for general election public funding in 2020 that will be worth over $10 million.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

Alphalop's picture

Don't forget, the biggest accomplishment an agent provocateur can achieve is to cause distrust and division within a movement.

We gotta accept the fact that there will be shills and avoid achieving their goals for them.

Be aware, but don't be obsessed with trying to identify them I guess, because sometimes it's gonna be a shill and other times it's just going to be someone that holds a different position than you and telling the difference can be very difficult at times, particularly online.

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

detroitmechworks's picture

The Cop is the guy telling you to go out and punch the cops. Or is asking about where they can get their hands on some dynamite.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Alphalop's picture

Both are pretty damn destructive either way, lol!

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

I bent over backwards to avoid naming anyone and specifically said the person in my example might not even be a shill.

And yet, they'd have it turn into a pie fight.

I think I'll go back and hit Like on all their posts. That'll show 'em. Smile

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Big Al's picture

"What do you expect to accomplish by voting Green?

Goals, purpose? It's obvious Jill Stein can't win, so what the goal of voting for the Green party? Is it a protest vote? Trying to build the Green party up?"

Yesterday I was called a liar because I called Trump a scumbag.

This is really something.

Who the fuck are you Scott Crowder? My name is Al Anderson. I live in Vancouver, WA. I'm a Vietnam Era Vet. I'm a thirty year retired federal employee, worked with the Forest Service after starting with DOD. I was one of the original ones on this site, from day ONE.

Who the fuck are you?

What's up with this shit JtC? Letting them call me a liar and a shill?

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And I went to great lengths to say "possible" shill. I even pointed out:

And of course, the person in question might not even be a shill at all.

So not sure why you're making such a fuss.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

which is also something that's inevitable in heated public discourse.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

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