Alas, Dr. Stein has lost my support with her VP pick.

I know this will be controversial, and I welcome the discussion. IMHO, the choice of Ajamu Baraka was stupid.

Why? Because it gave a quick terminating shot through the head of any slim chance that she might have had in this election.

Why? Because now the Green ticket has zero experience in governance, and the operation and use of U.S. Military apparatus.

Why is the latter so important? Because, as much as we (I presume most of us here) would like to see the U.S. Military scaled down to a rational size, and its use in foreign adventurism (read, in support of international monied interests) curtailed, to do so will take at least a rudimentary understanding of and experience with how that bureaucratic monstrosity operates, and will take at least a grudging respect from those in command. It would take many years and careful planning and leadership to finally take the US off of a permanent state-of-war standing.

Now, we have two good folks that have no Executive, Judicial Legislative or Military experience, who (seemingly) seriously seek the position to lead two of those branches explicitly and the other two implicitly, plus operate that most powerful and therefore dangerous military organization this planet has seen by an order of magnitude (or more).

Plus the choice of a racist demagogue (Baraka) insures no support from a wide spectrum of the public.

Why am I comfortable calling Baraka a “racist”, because he called me (a Sanders supporter) a racist, indeed, a “white supremacist”. Baraka is a one trick pony - his portfolio is far-and-away dominated by race issues. These are important issues, but they are in a spectrum of issues, and any leader of this nation must be facile with the full spectrum. But, the title of his blog “Black Agenda Report” is sobering, and will be as offensive to some as another might be with the title “White Agenda Report.” I don’t mind in the least folks having a discussion about the “Black Agenda”, but coming from a potential second in command of this nation, I must doubt the seriousness of someone presuming to represent all of these United States.

And frankly, there are bigger issues, existential issues. (And yes, to many many of our fellow citizens of color, racial issues are existential.) The melting of our democracy before our eyes (overt manipulation of the election and voting processes), and the literal melting down of our planet’s climate (reference to the melting and burning arctic clathrates in Siberia) are examples. These are immediate existential threats to America as a whole, and all living creatures aboard Earth. As much as Baraka railed against Sen. Sanders for his lack of attention to the “Black Agenda”, he gave him no credit at all for citing Climate Change as our biggest threat.

And finally, Mr. Baraka is dishonest. He has removed from his blog all of his railings against Sen. Sanders and his supporters, such as Cornel West - who he characterized as a dishonest “Democratic Sheepdog.” Fortunately, the inter-tubes have a memory. It was silly of Mr. Baraka to suppose he could hide from his own demagoguery.

Fortunately, I found out about Dr. Stein’s naiveté before I wasted too much money, and a whole lot of time on her already foundering candidacy.

Edited to remove erroneous statements. Apologies to Mr. Baraka, and those who were offended, and thanks for those who pointed out my errors.

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But then I'm supporting the Green Party as "we need an alternative to the "democratic" party"/to pressure the "democratic" party from the left/to try to keep Bernie's policies out there.

I'm under no illusions that the Green Party will win. I'm under no illusions that stein/whoever should be elected. I do want a place for my vote that will get counted election night (assuming we can get the Green Party on the ballot in Alabama). at some point we have to stop folding to the "democratic" party & call them. Hopefully lots of people call them this year.

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Szaephod's picture

But to use ones vote strategically, it would be extremely useful for the subject of your strategy to demonstrate at least a tad of competence, IMHO.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

Anja Geitz's picture

repeatedly ridiculed by my betters for protesting the clusterfuck of illegal wrongdoing my own party inflicted upon its members, it was with very little satisfaction that the documents found in the #DNCLeaks confirmed exactly what was going on. This was due in large part to TPTB flaunting their sickening spectacle of the DNC Convention with the help of a complicit media while they bullied our delegates and marginalized any form of democratic dissent. I felt then as I do now, that the only voice I have to denounce the suborning of our democracy is with my vote. If that requires me to vote for the "incompetent" and "naïve" party whose VP selection has the singular offense of not being politically strategic, I'm willing to hold my nose for the greater good on this one.

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

The party I'd thought was mine for decades kicked me and most of what I have believed in -- most of what I called myself a Democrat FOR --to the curb and spit on me. Then it called me names for lying there covered with spit. The "Green" Party gets more attention than any other party to the left of the Dems. Voting for them is my statement, and it's all I've by-God got. "Incompetent and naive" beats the hell out of arrogant and rightwing. I will not be complicit.

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Twain Disciple

Still, better than voting for outright fascism, which is what one gets from the selections of the two corporate/billionaire parties. And then one has the opportunity of surviving to try to build up an alternative party which is more inclusive. Voting for either Trump or Hillary, or for any corporate/billionaire representatives substituted for them, is essentially a vote for death of not only human but virtually all higher forms of oxygen-dependent life across the planet in the all-too-near future.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

There are so many people turning Green on this site it might as well be renamed. But Stein is a dumbass, and her VP pick is merely further evidence. It's odd the she would do something as pragmatic as offering Sanders the head of the ticket, and then do something as dumbass as giving Baraka the VP. Being a Democratic Socialist is not the same as being a ragtag collection of fringe countercultural interest groups, which is what the Greens are. But here's the big problem: this crap about the Greens being a home for disaffected Sanders supporters just makes Sanders and everything for which he stands look dumbass, too. I'm really sick of reading about Stein on this site. If you did a Venn diagram of what the Greens stand for and what the term "99 Percent" stands for, the overlap is about 15%.

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Sanders had a problem with blm early on, primarily because of the editorial slant at Black Agenda Report that said Sanders was a sheepdog. Now that Sanders is infact campaigning or Hilllary, and blm is starting to pay attention, she needs them on her side. All parties are coalitions of interests. This site is caucus99 not bernie99. Bernie's campaign is over now, except for HillShilling. If essays about Jill annoy you, don't read them.

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That's what I actually said. Your point that all parties all coalitions of interests kinda misses the point, doesn't it. And in the case of the Greens, that coalition is a lot less about 99%'s interests than Sanders was.

Fine, though- if this site is gonna become about Greens, I will leave soon.

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detroitmechworks's picture

I'm all about the IP war. And not the I/P war. Smile

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfol_TLLnIw]

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Thanks so much for turning me on to these guys, their next video up was 'Drink" and now I'm totally hooked.

May FSM touch you with His Noodly Appendage and (internally) baptize you with free-flowing beer!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

detroitmechworks's picture

They do not take themselves seriously at all, and I adore that about them. They've even done Lady Gaga parody, and made it a sea shanty about freezing to death on a quest...

Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

elenacarlena's picture

with surprisingly little rancor. You can make your case for any side you wish. But if you think you're going to bully us into silence, you are going to be disappointed.

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would show with a Democratic Party vs. 99%.
I am not going Green. I intend to vote for Stein.
Stein voters are not making Sanders look like a dumb ass. In fact, my vote for Stein is my way of honoring Bernie's call for a revolution.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

I didn't say it makes Sanders look like a dumbass; to clarify: it makes it easier to dismiss Sanders' supporters by the mainstream that we must penetrate if his supporters throw their support to someone who does such dumbass shit as her VP pick. It would make much more sense to organize an election boycott (which might make sense given its apparent illegitimacy) or a Sanders write-in. Voting for Stein accomplishes less than nothing.

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as he won primaries in 13 states.
We are being noticed now because we won't vote for Hillary, not because we are voting for Stein.
A vote for a lefty is better than not voting for a lefty.
I see no value in a boycott.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

detroitmechworks's picture

They can continue to spin their bullshit, and fewer and fewer people will try to challenge them because it just reinforces the "Voting doesn't Matter" narrative.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

dismiss Sanders' supporters easily. So, there is not much to worry about on that point.

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dfarrah

thanatokephaloides's picture

I am curious what a Venn diagram would show with a Democratic Party vs. 99%.

Nothing but daylight between two isolated entities, just like for the GOP (which it has become).

Right now, the 99% are experiencing taxation without representation.

Sad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Considering that both Dems and Repubs are of, by and for the 1% very definitely versus the 99%, and that everybody - whether insatiable greed and ignorance blinds them to it or not - has an interest in maintaining the life support system of Earth, I'd say that, barring a Bernie miracle, the Greens are the only possible choice. At the very least, people could survive their time in public office.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Because I'd say that Venn diagram would overlap about 99%.

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elenacarlena's picture

There actually looks to me to be significant overlap with the 99%. See http://www.jill2016.com/plan

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least. I'd say that Bernie adopted a lot of her platform.

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elenacarlena's picture

she was adopting his platform. Maybe she said it was the same as his or agreed with his or something like that. The progressive ideas about income inequality and such, I took her to mean. The green part I presume has always been there.

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planks in her platform, 4 years ago. Just as they are core to the greens in general.

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elenacarlena's picture

I never thought of income inequality as a green issue. The New Deal made sense as a related issue because it's doing something about climate change while creating jobs.

I qualified my response because I thought perhaps not addressing income inequality, focusing exclusively on green issues, was what held the Greens back. Therefore I hoped that by adopting progressive issues, they'd do much better this year.

So if they've always had this populist stance, why have they done so poorly? Lack of organization? Rigging by the Dems/Reps? Most importantly, what can we do about it so that they do much better?

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The fact that you didn't know about the Green platform is one example of a major problem-lack of MSM media accessibility (and that's a result of Vichy Party power). Another problem the party has is a dearth of media people that can exploit social media, and that's probably a result of the lack of exposure-so a circular problem. Greens have seen a huge influx of ex-Berners, I hope they can ameliorate that weakness. Structurally, Greens as a state-centered party (a need at their inception), now have to become more "federalized", and that, too can be addressed. Basically, Greens need more money and more people power, the vanguard is greying, and even though they've been very successful for decades in getting ballot access and fighting for justice, they need new blood.

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elenacarlena's picture

but I'm not exactly young blood.

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Meteor Man's picture

But here's the big problem: this crap about the Greens being a home for disaffected Sanders supporters just makes Sanders and everything for which he stands look dumbass, too

That's a little bit hysterical. Are you familiar with the concept of inferential leaps? Cause you just jumped the Grand Canyon with that one pal.

If you are tired of reading anout Jill Stein at this site, then leave. A large number of us have good reasons for backing Jill Stein and will continue to give our reasons for going Green.

You don't like Stein? Who are you voting for?

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Plato2016's picture

But then I'm supporting the Green Party as "we need an alternative to the "democratic" party"/to pressure the "democratic" party from the left/to try to keep Bernie's policies out there.

The way I see it, if we don't grow green now, we'll be stuck with two republican parties for the next 100 years. Since the old dem party is now the 'republican' party, and the old repub party is now the batshit crazy tea party, progressives are being pushed out to have NO representation anywhere.

Jill's platform is almost identical to Bernie's. If we get her polling up to 15%, she can get onto the stage at the debates (like Ross Perot). That would mean that Bernie's message would still be heard. It also means that the green message would be heard.

And, no, she does not have a chance to win. Her supporters know that there is currently too much money in the game for anyone to win presidency that isn't member of dem or repub party. But Jill (and green party) can make sure that progressive voices are still ringing throughout the country. And at sometime in the future, Green might be the new democratic party.

Damn right I'm going to send her money. She's my only megaphone.

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We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when we are afraid of the light.
--Plato

The way I see it, if we don't grow green now, we'll be stuck with two republican parties for the next 100 years.

I'm not sure how long we have until the climate change tipping point is reached but I'm pretty sure its a heck of a lot sooner than 100 years and I keep reading how that day is coming sooner than scientists thought the last time they checked. We have to stop this acceleration and we just can't do politics as usual anymore. The Green party is much more relevant than people realize.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Szaephod's picture

The climate is in run-away mode; the clathrates are melting, blowing-out and burning in the arctic, the oceans have absorbed their max of CO2, and we're every year setting new temp records.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

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Beware the bullshit factories.

about it because the VP choice isn't absolutely freaking perfect in one persons opinion.

Yeah, seems a legit reaction.

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Thanks! And at current rates of already rampant industrial/military pollution and destruction, the current snowballing-ever-faster die-off/collapse of Earth's life support system has been estimated to result in the inability to produce enough oxygen to support life within about 90 years, meaning trouble gaining enough oxygen for basic bodily functions MUCH SOONER.

With the corporate coups which will be ratified by either corporate/billionaire-run party, the unlimited-by-corporate-law industrial/military pollution and destruction - even if the high probability of nuclear Mutual Assured Destruction does not occur - will vastly decrease that remaining time-span. We are talking, at best, a few decades of bare and deteriorating survival for even the wealthy unless this is hostile corporate take-over is forestalled and actual democracy brought to the US and allied other democracies.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Szaephod's picture

I fear Dr. Stein has passed up on a chance bequeathed her by Sen. Sanders (a teeny little chance) to actually make a difference.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

Expand the forests all over the World, particularly the rain forests.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Leema's picture

OTOH one of my climate science friends thinks maybe we have a few more years till it doesn't matter. hard to know given that warming and gases run about 25 years behind the present. I prefer to hope a teesy tiny bit...so that i still have something to fight for.

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When wealth rules, democracy dies.

I prefer to hope a teesy tiny bit...so that i still have something to fight for.

That's why Jill's VP pick doesn't matter. The circumstances force a new politics starting now. The Democrats and Republicans are selfishly clinging to the politics that brought us to this point and there's no reason to stay with them anymore.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

dc.jpg

There are no riots in the streets. But across the country, a revolt is brewing with polls showing a majority of Americans opposing both Trump and Hillary.

The more we see, the less we like.

Unfortunately, the elites want us to believe that it’s take Hillary or Trump or not vote.

The best Republican campaign slogan is — Not Hillary.
The best Democratic campaign slogan is — Not Trump.

One way or another, people are realizing they aren't being represented by most of the people they vote for. They realize, in enormous numbers, that the time has come to rescue this country from a status quo that thinks it owns us. That's the subtext of Election 2016, whatever winds up happening in November. Public anger has transcended the mass media's excruciating efforts to contain and minimize the national debate about the country's direction.

If it doesn't matter which you choose, then don't choose either, VOTE: JILL STEIN.

Because to concede that voting is sheerly a cynical, hold-your-nose activity, divorced from real values -- to concede that the best choice we ever get is the lesser evil -- is the slow death knell of democracy.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

will feel uneasy about Ajamu Baraka. (The name is not all that much more bizarre than Barack Hussein Obama, so it's the person and his opinions that matter more.)

Mr Baraka would tell you he can't possibly be a "racist" because he's on the wrong end of the power structure. He will never mention that he just might be a bigot - anybody can be a bigot, regardless of who or what or where they are.

Frankly, his screeds sound rather too much like the BS that pours endlessly from Denise Oliver's keyboard, right down to the hating on "Charlie Hebdo" (a satirical rag which is an equal-opportunity offender, as near as I can tell) for "racism" and "Islamophobia". DEO completely missed the satire, it went whizzing right over her head - and it looks as though it went whizzing over his too. Satire is supposed to make people uncomfortable with their preconceived opinions.

If you ask me, picking him was a desperate Hail Mary pass from Ms. Stein to get people talking about her campaign - even if what they said was intensely negative (and some of it will be). "There is no such thing as bad publicity" IS a guiding principle in politics (it's why we're stuck with the nauseous choice of The Shill or The Hairball or Nobody).

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Baraka is a rabble-rouser, not a political leader. The Green Party suffers badly from an obvious lack of competent leadership, and as a result it has "loser" written all over it. I think we would be far better off to ignore the Green Party (as everybody else has been doing) and start from scratch. Bernie's coalition has little or nothing in common with the inherently quarrelsome and divisive nature of the Greens, and they have nothing to offer us but trouble.

It would be far preferable to have them join us, rather than vice-versa. You can't build a strong movement on such a shakey foundation as the Greens provide. People have been saying, "but there's no other decent Party to vote for".... which is absolutely true. But that is not a good reason to hitch our wagon to a crippled horse. What is being called for, quite loudly, is a new political Party. The question is, how to go about developing one.

One suggestion: We could start off by calling it the Write-In Party, strictly for this election cycle. A sort of collective protest vote, without any platform. Not an official Party, but an open-ended rejection of the corporatist Duopoly. Calling for a collective, intentionally wasted vote... it might get quite a few subscribers. Something to build on?

Of course there are flaws in this idea it was just off the top off my head. But we do need to be thinking creatively about our politics, as the two-party system starts to unravel. Try to get ahead of the game, instead of trailing along behind it. We need to be using our brains, as well as our will.

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native

We should join them, and then, if what you say is true about the greens' incompetent leadership, the bernies can improve the greens' operations.

I was very impressed with them in Colorado. Not only did they know the caucus process and use it well, they managed to replace all three of the DNC representatives.

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dfarrah

not simply reactions to the latest outrage-du-jour. American blacks as a whole will never be persuaded to follow the likes of Ajamu Baraka, nor should they, if they've got any practical sense - which they do have, by and large.

There's nothing wrong with rabble-rousing and there's nothing wrong with Ajamu Baraka, but neither of them can provide an effective base upon which a coalition can be built, strong enough to overcome TPTB and our Militay-Industrial complex. The Green Party has based itself on a philosophy of grievance and complaint which, however justified, cannot possibly unify its various constituents.

Neither will Jill Stein be able to do that, no matter how many votes she manages to siphon off from the Clinton machine. The Green Party lacks both focus and effective leadership. Its ideals may be terrific, but its strategies and tactics are pathetic.

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native

That you can speak for US Blacks as a monolith. Also good to know that you think that " The Green Party has based itself on a philosophy of grievance and complaint which, however justified, cannot possibly unify its various constituents." YOUR opinion has all the value of any sweeping generalization, based on a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the Greens, their platform, and their ability to persevere in organization, ballot access and outreach in the face of overwhelming entrenched political money and power fighting against them. This whole thread was set off by the misleading, and untrue, grievances and complaints of the OP, and it has followed that example well.

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davidincleveland's picture

too subtle for some of your readers.

American blacks as a whole will never be persuaded to follow the likes of Ajamu Baraka, nor should they, if they've got any practical sense - which they do have, by and large.. emphasis added by me

Context is everything in reading comprehension. I'm among the 'by and large': I consider Baraka a one trick pony who isn't even good at the trick; I can out rabble-rouse him with one fork of my tongue tied to the other one. Any chance I might have voted Green Party was completely killed by Stein's choice of him as a running mate.

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If you're such a great rabble rouser I assume you're voting Communist? Or what party would you consider acceptable to the "by and large" AA community, which you presume to speak for?

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davidincleveland's picture

calling out shit stirrers but you've gotten in my face with your bullshit "presumptions" and I don't take that shit from anyone. If you want to start shit by jumping to conclusions about whether you've been racially dissed, have a ball, but NOT in 'reply' to me. I have yet to see you make a non-confrontational comment about race, even when you have no reason to be dismissive of the person or issue you are addressing. Your next hostile comment to me will be reported.

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when it comes to my (rare) commentary on race, and YOU sir are the hostile and nasty one. I give a shit if you "report me", I'm sooo scared. Why don't you take that shit back to TOP, where it is really popular.

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them "as a whole"=sweeping generalization, treating them as a monolithic group. "If they've got any practical sense - which they do have, by and large" implies that they have SENSE, "generally" and thus, as a result will not "follow the likes of Baraka"=again, sweeping generalization . So, yeah-"reading comprehension".

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We are greens because it is a horizontal organization, that's why we are greens, we would not be apart of any org that is not and if greens wern't you can bet your ass we wouldn't be greens, we don't follow any god dam crooked "leaders".

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Solidarity forever

but if Greens would never join the likes of me, can you tell me who they would join the likes of? Or might join the likes of? Or maybe you think of Greens as being a self-sufficient group of like-minded folks who all agree with one another? I'm really not sure what your criteria might be.

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native

Meteor Man's picture

Bernie's coalition has little or nothing in common with the inherently quarrelsome and divisive nature of the Greens, and they have nothing to offer us but trouble.

Another inferential leap. Try staying grounded in reality. Smoking some Cali Kush might help.

One suggestion: We could start off by calling it the Write-In Party, strictly for this election cycle. A sort of collective protest vote, without any platform. Not an official Party, but an open-ended rejection of the corporatist Duopoly. Calling for a collective, intentionally wasted vote... it might get quite a few subscribers. Something to build on?

And in another twenty years your dream party will be on the ballot in all 50 states?

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

Does it mean so now you have to vote for Hillary, Trump or Johnson? Does it mean you won't vote? Does it mean you'll vote but not donate or GOTV? When someone loses your support, what does that mean?

I don't expect Jill Stein or Gary Johnson to win. Most don't. Unless she gets arrested, I'm not holding my breadth, Hillary is pretty much a done deal. My not voting for her has less to do with winning and losing than it does with registering a protest to both evils and the two party system.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Szaephod's picture

That I won't spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on her candidacy, as I did for that of Sen. Sanders. It means I'll likely write in Bernie Sanders, as the net result of my belief that there are no candidates/tickets officially running that I feel are qualified to serve.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

I regret the money I sent to Bernie because he quit. This brings back memories of dailykos. I contributed to Dean and other dkos candidates over the years because I wanted to help dkos/Netroots be a player. As time went on, I learned to close my wallet. As more time passed, I learned that dkos became a player alrigght. Kos sold us out lock, stock and barrel to the Democratic Party.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

I wonder who else campaigns with lies, smears and misrepresentations?

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Are you suggesting that I form my opinions essay to essay? Jill will get my vote, unless it is close. Then, I'll vote for Trump. After Bernie quit, my priority became and remains making sure that Hillary and the Third Way lose. If I can't do that, I will vote for Jill - not because I think she can win, but because we need a viable third party desperately. If I didn't support third party and/or agree with Jill, I would stay home because it would accomplish just as much as my vote.

Candidly, I think the Green Party has baggage that will need to be overcome. I love trees and think we'd all be better off if everyone hugged them more, but to many, tree hugger means an environmentalist willing to destroy my job for a plant. I personally don't think Jill is a good speaker but then, I feel the same way about Bernie, Hillary, and Trump. Don't like listening to any of them. I haven't heard hJill support any positions that I oppose, but I do think her pick for VP although highly credentialed and smart is too niche to be of marketable value to the campaign. Reaching and enlisting the general population is the goal, right?

So if you have a message in your reply to me, I'm afraid you will have to make it clearer.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

And on the heels of the statement you responded to. In which, the poster said "no vote for Stein" I'm writing in Bernie", Then you post:
"I won't send her money either.
I regret the money I sent to Bernie because he quit. This brings back memories of dailykos. I contributed to Dean and other dkos candidates over the years because I wanted to help dkos/Netroots be a player. As time went on, I learned to close my wallet. As more time passed, I learned that dkos became a player alrigght. Kos sold us out lock, stock and barrel to the Democratic Party."

Implied that the Greens were sellouts, dishonest and appeared to agree with the OP. Which engendered my response. Whether your position was reached by reading his execrable essay, or not, there would be possibly others reading the smears that would be affected.

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This post's mission has thus been accomplished
I wonder who else campaigns with lies, smears and misrepresentations?

When you referenced this post accomplishing its mission, it led me there. The first question I asked the poster is what losing his/her support meant. Writing in Bernie and voting for Jill, depending on the state, are pretty much the same and worth about as much as staying home. One thing is for certain, what I do will have little to no impact on anything.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

TheOtherMaven's picture

as it shows somebody bothered to vote - just not for either of the Big Two. (Check the fine print for your state - some states just throw out write-ins for "unauthorized" persons.)

The Big Two don't have to worry about people who don't vote - they do have to worry about the ones who don't vote for them.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

... as a ballot choice, voting for Stein is the best way to send an affirmative message with a progessive flavor in Ohio. A vote for Bernie just goes in the same bin with 'Mickey Dolenz', 'Mahatma Gandhi', & 'Vampire Squid'.

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and the operation and use of the military apparatus is your criteria, then Clinton is the only one who meets it.
Is this what you are advocating?

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Szaephod's picture

And I never said that was my only criteria - but it is a necessary one, IMHO.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

Big Al's picture

President no matter who she selected for VP. I'm pretty surprised at the number of people who actually think she has a chance. Perhaps it's part of the Bernie effect, thinking somehow that another politician is the answer and everyone else MUST see that.

Your depiction of the Black Agenda Report is rather laughable. Sounds a little right wingish. Like, "All Lives Matters". What if he had starred in a show on the Black Entertainment Network? You're saying a black person involved in a black oriented blog shouldn't be VP because it presents the wrong image?

From what I've seen of his "racist" language, it's been mostly on the mark. I'm not sure where you're getting the white supremacist" remark, but he did have this to say:

"The fact that so many white leftist supporters of Sanders can politically and psychologically disconnect his domestic program from his foreign policy positions that objectively support U.S. and Western neoliberal hegemony means that not only have they found a way to be comfortable collaborating with imperialism, but that they have also decided that they can support the implicit hierarchy that determines from an imperial perspective that lives in the White West matter more than others."

I found that to be basically true as well. Maybe you could provide a link where he called you a white supremacist. You say he's a racist because he called you a racist? That's pretty slim justification.

Relative to his allegedly removing things from his blog, which blog are you talking about? It couldn't have been Counterpunch. His opinion that West was being a Sheepdog for the Dems is actually correct in my view. He allied with Sheepdog Sanders to try to elect him as a Democratic party nominee for Prez, helping Sanders attract more people to the Democratic party. So ya, West was a sheepdog. Now he's switched to Stein and the GP.

I don't have a horse in this race, I'm not supporting Stein or the GP. But your depiction of Baraka borders on racist stereotyping.

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screed DO border on racist stereotyping. I was expecting to read "White Lives Matter too" at any moment. The BS accusation that Professor Baraka removed any posts is a lie, and I expect the OP to either show examples from the Wayback Machine or retract that.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

To find e.g. his "Charlie Hebdo" screed, you now have to go to his main Web page and check out the archived listings. (This is a common problem with Web sites that have archives.)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

KyleGNally's picture

Without looking at his site's source code, my guess is that it uses dynamic page generation via PHP. In case you don't know- and many don't- many websites today, including this one we are using, generate pages dynamically using a language called PHP. This is a scripting language used to minimize bandwidth traffic, server load, and required server disk space by generating content on demand. It's pretty cool, actually.

Static websites, by contrast, are just that- static. There's an index.html, and other pages using that same extension, and they don't change dynamically (the author has to code them directly). The upshot is that if you have the URL, you can access the same page weeks, months, or years later, and provided it hasn't been deleted, it's still there.

Not necessarily so with pages generated by a content management system such as WordPress or (in this site's case) Drupal. These sites are largely auto-generated in terms of code, and (and here's the part that's relevant to your own comment) the URL for each page isn't necessarily permanent unless it uses a "permalink". Archives in a content management system don't usually use these unless one has been generated.

And that's why you have to drill down the links to the same page you used to have a URL for. Look at the url for this particular page you're viewing- if this thread were archived, that may well change at that point (depending on how Drupal handles that, something I don't have any hands-on experience with *yet*).

I'd like to put together a basic HTML/CSS introductory course (complete with homework and grades!) for users of this site, time permitting. It's actually pretty easy to learn at least the basics, but with school starting again in September I'm not sure I'll have time.

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mimi's picture

more permanent archives. Something I like to learn more about. Do I have to know PHP. I remember that it was already there some twenty years ago, or do I remember that incorrectly? At least I remember I stopped trying to learn it in 1997-to 1998. It was a mistake.

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Meteor Man's picture

The entire post is irrational and eacist. Thanks Big Al.

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"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

In the meantime, I'll address some of them for people who don't know of Professor Baraka's credentials.
"Over the years, Baraka has taught political science and guest lectured at several colleges. He's currently an associate fellow at the progressive think tank Institute for Policy Studies. The main thread that runs through the past several decades of his biography is his commitment to protecting human rights, which he has pursued in various ways. From leading trainings for grassroots activists, to giving briefings to Congress, to serving on the boards of international human rights organizations, Baraka has done this work on different levels.
Baraka worked with Amnesty International to uncover human rights violations within the United States and to oppose the death penalty in the '90s. From 2004 to 2011, he served as the founding executive director of the US Human Rights Network, the first group in the United States whose goal was to apply international human rights standards to the country. USHRN spearheaded the Katrina Campaign on Internal Displacement, which sought to designate people who lost their homes during the hurricane as "internally displaced," a designation that highlights the government's responsibility to protect them. Baraka currently coordinates the Black Left Unity Network's Committee on International Affairs."

http://www.bustle.com/articles/176408-who-is-ajamu-baraka-jill-steins-vi...

It would probably help to be accurate when slinging mud, since Professor Baraka's blog is titled "A Voice from the Margins" NOT Black Agenda Report (which, BTW I read regularly), and the sheepdog label can be found there, and it was directed at Sanders, not Brother West (and that label may be arguably correct, after what I've seen and read after the convention). Your allegation that he called Berners "racists" really really needs some documentation there, pal, since every other statement you've made has been a flat-out misrepresentation (outside of your opinionated diatribe about the need for the authoritarian support of our military, which are ostensibly subordinate to the citizenry, eg, "civilians").
Interestingly, I've seen a few diatribes much like yours, one is up at TOP right now, and they use links to Clinton-supporter owned media like Haim Saban's network. CTR has been busy.

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hecate's picture

vote for someone with "Military experience"? Those people are serial killers. Might as well vote for Ted Bundy, or Chuckles Manson.

As for this: "the title of his blog 'Black Agenda Report' is sobering, and will be as offensive to some as another might be with the title 'White Agenda Report.'" Only hopeless, clueless people, would be so offended.

He's not a racist. Just because a black man identifies some white people as racist, that does not mean white people can then extrude a pout-lip and whine that he's racist, too.

He's a ding-dong on Hebdo. But so what? The Mad Bomber, she is the Queen of Dings, while the The Hairball is the King of Dongs.

Anyway, don't sweat it. There are 300 million other people out there to vote for. Maybe the guy who fixed Bob Dylan's carburetor.

Mister Jones: I was looking through your lyrics. There aren't very many political songs in there.

Bob Dylan: I don't know which of my songs was ever political.

MJ: "Masters Of War" is.

BD: I don't know if even "Masters of War" is a political song. Politics of what? If there is such a thing as politics, what is it politics of? Is it spiritual politics? Automotive politics? Governmental politics? What kind of politics? Where does this word come from, politics? Is this a Greek word, or what? What does it actually mean? Everybody uses it all the time. I don't know what the fuck it means. Left, right, rebel. Some people are rebels. Let's see. Afghanistan are rebels, but they're OK. Nicaragua's got rebels and they're OK. Their rebels are all right. But in El Salvador the rebels are the bad guys. If you listen to that stuff you go crazy. You don't even know who you are any more.

MJ: We all have our favorite rebels I guess.

BD: Yeah! That must be it!

MJ: Who do you admire?

BD: Who is there to admire now? Some world leader? Who? I could probably think of many people actually that I admire. There's a guy who works in a gas station in LA—old guy. I truly admire that guy.

MJ: What's he done?

BD: What's he done? He helped me fix my carburetor once.

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and I would not vote for that candidate no matter how stellar he/she might seem otherwise. I doubt if I would vote for Smedley Butler should he be resurrected.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

detroitmechworks's picture

Since I did serve, and loved it, but at the same time think war is the worst thing a military can be used for. (Yes, I am aware of the irony.)

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Since I am the parent of a soldier, and have said this before on this site, I appreciate a good word. 90% of soldiers serve in support functions. My son does. Not all military experience is artillery, infantry, special operations, or marksmanship-beyond a few days a year. Most MOSs are related to support functions. Would the folks who denigrate military service object to young people working as drivers, carpenters, translators, coders, or musicians? How about doctors and nurses and EMTs? Chaplains?
War is the worst thing military can be used for, I agree. Military has many best things to be used for, too.

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Szaephod's picture

And your quote about the "white leftist supporters… Imperial perspective that lives in the White West… etc., and a couple of similar comments are to what I was referring. But making the issue about race as opposed to what it is really about, which is economic hegemony by the .01% is what I find laughable.

My comment about the title of his blog was a meta-comment - it's how I feel the general public will react, not how I react. I should have thought you would have read that correctly, it was pretty clear.

It is his own blog that has been redacted - try tracking searches of "Baraka criticism of Sanders", and you'll find a number of broken links to "The Black Agenda."

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

Szaephod's picture

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

Big Al's picture

some of the public will respond. Considering the circumstances of this election, I think a more known and less radical figure might have kept Stein in the picture longer and more effectively. We'll see how it goes.
There are other backstories to Baraka and his selection that might present more of a problem for the GP going forward.

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A less radical and more mainstream person would have still left them with a mighty sales job.

If you're explaining, you're losing is so true.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

I wonder how much unconscious suspicion might be triggered by the name 'Baraka' being associated with the Barack Obama currently trying to shove corporate coup 'trade deals' down the throats of the people to be sacrificed to billionaire profiteering?

But I'll bet that a Justice Department under the Green Party would darned well take the police/public official abuse of the Constitutional rights of citizens seriously - rather than stating that politicians caught participating in the cover-up of the police murders of People of Colour are 'fit to retain their positions' in the public service.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

practices are on the books - a Green AG wouldn't need anything from Congress to proceed against them.

On a related matter, stock buybacks were illegal until 1982 when the SEC gave the practice the green light. Stock buybacks are, and were, a form of insider trading and serve mainly to enrich upper management and those with very large holdings. I think buybacks should again be made illegal.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

His blog has not been redacted Your constant repetition of this makes the rest of your accusations very questionable indeed.

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Szaephod's picture

I see now that that is not his blog, and I whole-heartedly withdraw the accusation of dishonesty, with abject apologies.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

IMO it is a divisive stew of innuendo and outright racist accusations

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mouselander's picture

Whatever the shortcomings of Jill Stein and the Green Party, they are like a tiny anthill compared to the Mt. Everest of Clinton and Trump's long record of dishonesty, corruption, criminality and general viciousness. People really should keep that in mind before shifting into self-righteous "pox on all your houses" mode.

The moment a completely blemish free candidate comes along, I'm on 'em like white on rice. Until then, I'm sticking with Dr. Stein, and I strongly encourage others here to do likewise. Voting for Stein is not really about endorsing her candidacy, given that there is not even the remotest chance that she'll win, it's about building an alternative power structure for the future.

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inactive account

Alphalop's picture

Particularly in light of the corrections that were made after it was pointed out that they were in error. That's all we can really ask in all honestly unless you assume the author published it with disingenuous intent, which I don't.

However the biggest reason I don't think it should be removed is twofold, firstly I don't like stifling any but the most outrageous of statements, but more importantly this is a meme that will be floating around out there, and if someone were to come across this essay, the follow-up comments and the authors corrections would possibly prevent them from believing it is true from other sources.

Information and communication is generally good, and even negative information and communication can have worth at times.

But that's just my opinion and we have already established what that's worth, lol!

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"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me

Although many egregious errors, falsifications or unverified allegations STILLremain in the piece (the amount of strikethroughs alone would then make it unreadable), it does serve as an example of the "meme" being USED, not "floating around"(I've already seen some examples, on my FB feed, and one is up at TOP right now). This does allow for some factual and political pushback. As to motive, or intent, that can never truly be known, but something this incorrect and vicious makes my spidey senses tingle. Calling someone a racist demagogue really sounds like something from the Clinton camp, and is being spread from their attack pieces, another one of which is also getting traction in the D blogosphere owned by Clinton supporters.

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mimi's picture

I think one has to deal with pieces like that, imo, by pointing out what you think about it honestly without smoothing over for politeness reasons. I was tempted to comment to it, because it felt like swift boating Stein AND Baraka, but others have already well expressed what I was thinking.

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can be placed on your post as an addendum or noted edit at the bottom

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Her vp pick won't make me dislike Jill, anymore than Hillary's made me like her. I don't think it is an important position when the President is a strong personality. Having said that Bernie is now acting as a sheepdog for Hillary. I think we'd have an easier time if BAR weren't partisan greens, but they were. We'd have an easier time if Bernie were a diehard lesserevilist, but he is. Bernie may not have intended to be a sheepdog but that is what he is. Up till the end of the primary season he really hadn't distinguished himself from her on middle eastern policy, and that is where Baraka got off calling him a white supremicist. She needs blm and he does have pull with them. She has distinguished herself on foreign policy to a much greater degree than Bernie. Anyway vote for who you want. & I'll vote for who I want.

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Szaephod's picture

And this applies to many other comments I'm getting here…

The country is big and complicated and needs some experience in a position like that.

The Commander In Chief role is very, very serious, and requires at least a modicum of experience and understanding.

As SOS, indeed HRC did get experience, but her performance was execrable.

I'm not telling anyone how to vote. I'm just stating my opinion about how I might use mine.

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The spirit of party serves to enfeeble the Public Administration,
agitates with Jealousies and false alarms, and opens the door to corruption,
which finds access to the government itself through the channels of party passions.
George Washington

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