How Mueller's team fears Russia could learn US secrets in court case

Ha! I wondered how Booby was going to bury the findings (or lack of) this RUSSIAN!!! boondoggle eating up taxpayer money and preventing REAL problems from being dealt with by those opportunist in DC.

How Mueller's team fears Russia could learn US secrets in court case

*

Prosecutor Jonathan Kravis made the argument at a pre-trial hearing for a case against a Russian firm accused of funding a St. Petersburg troll farm that allegedly conducted a widespread propaganda and disinformation campaign ahead of the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Kravis said that while most of the 3.2 million "sensitive" documents that have been collected in discovery for the case were relatively innocuous on their own, a shrewd reading of the whole lot could reveal important U.S. investigative secrets

It might be possible, for instance, to determine from the information the government has what information the government does not have -- the "gaps in the coverage." One could also potentially use the information available to "recreate the steps of the investigation," Kravis said.

*

The argument is the closest the government has come yet to articulating a concern that legal and national security experts shared with ABC News back in October. They said then that Russia might be using the U.S. court system to gather intelligence on Mueller's investigation or other U.S. secrets through the discovery process

*

Concord's lead attorney, Eric Dubelier, has vehemently argued that it would be virtually impossible to mount an effective defense without being able to show -- or even discuss -- the millions of documents of potential evidence with any actual officers of Concord in Russia. He said the government’s labeling of the millions of documents as “sensitive” was overly broad.

https://apple.news/AytUKlG5PRTG4Y9r3at7Bgg

I am so thoroughly confused I don’t know where to start. I guess I’ll go with SINCE WHEN DOES THE DEFENDANT HAVE NO RIGHTS TO THE EVIDENCE THE PROSECUTUON IS USING TO CONVICT SOMEONE(S) OF A CRIME (REAL OR FAKE?

Of all the crap Mueller & Co. have pulled during this sham of an ‘investigation’, this one scares me the most. He’s simply trying to hide the fact that this was an attempt to delegitimize the Orange Menace who actually WON the election. This goes directly to the heart of due process. Once the precedent is set, we’re screwed.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

but we’ve Been screwed.

When will we rise up?

up
0 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pluto's Republic's picture

...laughing their asses off right now. Not about the political foolishness. But about this:

They said then that Russia might be using the U.S. court system to gather intelligence on Mueller's investigation...

As if Russia had to wait for Mueller to write his lameass report! Heh.

However, the rest of the sentence is true. True, that is, for the co-conspirators who have been using snippets of evidence that they got from the Trump tower wiretap they were using three months before they got the first FISA warrant — to cover their asses after Hillary lost.

...or other U.S. secrets through the discovery process

It's illegalities like that they want to keep "secret." And not from the from the Russians, but from the the American people.

They will probably bleat this hoax narrative for the next 24 months, as if it is breaking news, just to be sure everyone is analytically brain dead about what took place here.

up
0 users have voted.

____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Pricknick's picture

back in 2001 with secret renditions and the Guantanamo Bay detention camp.
We can never see what others are accused of because it would show the complete scam of our governments case against we the people.

up
0 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick
Evidently, truth and justice are not presiding here. Another royal scam.

up
0 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@Pricknick

The precedent was set... in 2001... at Guantanamo Bay

I was trying to reach back to pinpoint the moment when the slippery slope we are tumbling down was first carved out. You nailed it.

That's when the American people should have felt that first cold wind blow through their souls. Barefoot men in orange jumpsuits, pointed black hoods covering their heads, legs and arms shackled, stumbling and half-dragged by American soldiers with averted faces, into the Gates of Hell at Guantanamo Bay. We built that. It's still part of our future.

up
0 users have voted.

____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

@Pluto's Republic
In Cuba of all the weird places to establish a criminal justice system? Writ large. Ain't about justice. And torture is OK. It's the American Way.

up
0 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@QMS

The guy that Obama's drone killed was a Muslim cleric IIRC who was just saying some things on YouTube and Obama wanted to shut him up. Off course that wasn't a big enough message so he also killed the guy's son. Remember how outraged people were over this? Me neither.

Just his having a Tuesday meeting so he could decide who needed to be killed next should have ended his presidency. Can you imagine the outrage if Georgie had done that? Or his saying that, "I'm good at killing people." Unfuckingbelievable.

Pretty sure that Mueller knows that when you charge someone for something and then their lawyer shows up that it's normal for them to get to see what the evidence is against their clients. "But your honor, I don't actually have anything to show hir and I don't want hir to know that."

Hasn't he pulled this before?

up
0 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@QMS
Bush/Cheney & Co. were absolute failures, at invading a sovereign nation and they were just as bad at hiding their war crimes. Seymour Hersh deserves great props for his articles on Abu Graib and torture by US personnel. Hersh credits

There had been a report written, a secret report. And once I got that—I got it. I got the report, written by a brilliant officer named Antonio Taguba, who was fired over it, because Rumsfeld thought Taguba had to give it to me.

https://www.democracynow.org/2018/6/20/seymour_hersh_on_torture_at_abu

(Proof Democracy Now wasn’t always internet birdcage fodder.)

And then along came Prez Transformational-Transparency, who was anything but transforming or transparent. B/C & Co. were ‘lucky’ that he was more than willing to cover up their crimes.

To see what a farce this is, it is worthwhile briefly to review the timeline of how Obama officials acted to shield Bush torturers from all accountability. During his 2008 campaign for president, Obama repeatedly vowed that, while he opposed "partisan witch-hunts", he would instruct his attorney general to "immediately review" the evidence of criminality in these torture programs because "nobody is above the law." Yet, almost immediately after winning the 2008 election, Obama, before he was even inaugurated, made clear that he was opposed to any such investigations, citing what he called "a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/...

(Without Seymour Hersh, we wouldn’t know about My Lai either.)

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews
No inconvenient witnesses. No one is allowed there except US military and their contractors.

up
0 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness all of the electronic surveillance capability everyone has?

up
0 users have voted.

dfarrah

@dfarrah
obviously google earth is witness to all of our surface crimes. The fact that the information is unavailable to the mortal man speaks volumes of the density of info screening going on. One does not need a satellite to perceive the destructive activities of the empire, but it would help!

up
0 users have voted.
Bisbonian's picture

basement server. Totally impenetrable.

up
0 users have voted.

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Russia might learn what we know about Russia...and so?

up
0 users have voted.

@gjohnsit

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

Donald Rumsfeld

up
0 users have voted.
Shahryar's picture

It might be possible, for instance, to determine from the information the government has what information the government does not have -- the "gaps in the coverage."

if I understand this correctly, someone might be able to see what "evidence" they don't have, "evidence" that would be enough to convict if they had it, which they don't, and that's a bad thing....somehow. Well I guess it is, for them.

up
0 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@Shahryar
but then the brain kicked in and I thought WTF?

That line is also why I did this OP. This is really going down the Rabbit Hole of Constitutionality and the Bill of Rights. This secret squirrel shit is not the way I was taught this country was run.

up
0 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews thinks it is wonderful that Manafort got muellered.

Anti trumpists think that it is great that anyone who ever had any type of transaction with Trump (social, financial, familial) would be hunted down like Mueller.

They couldn't care less about fairness, unequal justice, due process, evidentiary rules, abuse of process, or any other legal concept or the Constitution.

The ignorance of the law and the Constitution, and the reasons why the legal concepts developed, is just astounding.

They truly believe that anybody having anything to do with Trump needs to be jailed for life.

What a bunch of sickos.

up
0 users have voted.

dfarrah

@dfarrah who'll scream to high hell once this shit blows back on them. Idiot America, a fully non partisan affair. USA, USA, USA!

up
0 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

dystopian's picture

It should not surprise us that this crime, as big as Pearl Harbor if I recall, for which they could not produce a microscopic piece of evidence to support the allegations, should have no evidence to support a conviction. Waddya know? Russia did it! But we can't show you why. Sounds legit. Move along, nothing to see here. Certainly not any evidence!

up
0 users have voted.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Pluto's Republic's picture

@dystopian

...that we have a preponderance of evidence and expert testimony, that shows with gravity that the truth is exactly the opposite of everything asserted by the State in the matter of the Russia Hoax.

Right now people cannot see that the grave consequences of this grand deception are already upon them: that we as a nation are unable to recognize and acknowledge that we live in a failed state, when speaking that truth would give it form and set us free.

up
0 users have voted.

____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
lotlizard's picture

@Pluto's Republic  
“Duty, OK, right, but don’t you guys realize that horse of ‘constitutional government’ already left the U.S. barn a long time ago?”

up
0 users have voted.