Hillary Clinton, the Feminist who is Open to Taking Choice out of "Pro-Choice"

I am one of the tiny percentage of women who was blessed to receive a late-term abortion when I needed it. “Blessed” is a strange word to use about a procedure I literally cried throughout, but the truth is, that D&C freed me from my own private hell. Other women, mostly invisible to the public, are not so blessed. Heartbroken and grieving, they are forced by law to face additional torments.

Such laws need to be eliminated, not expanded.

Why is Hillary Clinton, the presumptive Democratic nominee, deviating from the Democratic platform on the issue of abortion? Compromising with forced-birthers on late-term abortion regulations is not consistent with her promise to “Defend women’s health and reproductive rights against attacks,” and leaves innocent women vulnerable to barbaric treatment. Those who care about women and protecting our reproductive rights, need to speak up and speak out on this issue.

What does the 2012 Democratic National Platform say about abortion?

2012 Democratic National Platform related to aborton rights

Note the following words:

Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way.

Are you surprised? No? These words convey the essence of what the “pro-choice” movement has historically been about. The decision, the choice, about whether or not to have an abortion belongs to a woman and her doctor alone — politicians should not be meddling in this decision.

I took a screenshot of the current platform, for I fear it will change when it is reviewed and revised later this summer. Hillary Clinton has publicly stated that she is essentially open to meddling by politicians when it comes to late term abortion regulations. Her views are not consistent with the existing platform, which creates a bit of awkwardness, don’t you think? A tweak here and there might help … so pay attention kids! You may glimpse the Democratic Party in the act of shifting even farther to the right in real time!

HILLARY IS OPEN TO TAKING CHOICE AWAY. BERNIE IS NOT.

Both candidates were asked questions about abortion at the Fox News Democratic Presidential Town Hall event held on March 7th. Bernie Sanders responded with classic pro-choice answers, including “I happen to believe that it is wrong for the government to be telling a woman what to do with her own body.” When pressed on the subject of exceptions for late-term abortions, he remained steadfast:

I am very strongly pro-choice. that is a decision to be made by the woman, her physician and her family. That's my view. — Bernie Sanders

Hillary Clinton’s first answer was also classic pro-choice: “Under Roe v. Wade, which is rooted in the Constitution, women have this right to make this highly personal decision with their family in accordance with their faith, with their doctor”; she also expressed support for Planned Parenthood. But when pressed by Bret Baier (“without any exceptions?”), Clinton gave an answer that should have set off alarms for all feminists:

I have been on record in favor of a late pregnancy regulation that would have exceptions for the life and health of the mother. — Hillary Clinton

Frankly, both this answer and the lack of screams about it from women’s rights activists have shocked me. Clinton has now publicly stated that not only is she is open to letting the proverbial camel’s nose into the tent, she has apparently held this view for quite some time: she is in favor of forcing women [like me], in some situations, to continue pregnancies against their will and/or against the medical advice they have been given by their doctors.

If that wasn’t awful enough, Clinton’s exceedingly slick criticism of moderators in Brooklyn for failing to ask questions about women’s reproductive rights, was not called out for being the premeditated political ploy that it actually was.

And I want to say something about this since we're talking about the Supreme Court and what's at stake. We've had eight debates before, this is our ninth. We've not had one question about a woman's right to make her own decisions about reproductive health care, not one question.

Her admirers were thrilled with Clinton’s comments, but they apparently failed to notice:

  1. Clinton twisted an unrelated question about President Obama's nomination of Merrick Gaarland to the Supreme Court into an opportunity to make a surprise attack on the moderators about abortion, which indicates that her remarks were prepared in advance, and she had been looking for a good opportunity to say them.
  2. Clinton’s words were not true: questions on the topic had in fact been raised at the Fox News townhall event; [Daily Kos] videos and transcripts are provided in another diary.
    • When interviewed after the broadcast, Bret Baier told the NYT, “Neither of them has taken a question in the debate or town halls about life, so I figured this was an opportunity.

      Notice the similarity of Baier’s words, published on March 8, to those spoken by Clinton at the debate on April 14. One might even suspect that the fantastic idea for Clinton to “slam moderators” (as Vox described it) in Brooklyn may have come from reading a certain article in the NYT. Adding the precise number of previous debates was a nice flair.

  3. By feigning indignation to the moderators on this topic when another topic was being discussed (i.e. Merrick Gaarland’s nomination), Clinton managed to imply that she was a greater champion of women’s rights than Sanders, without having to answer even a single question about how her views deviate from those in the Democratic National Platform.
  4. Clinton’s and Sanders positions on women’s reproductive rights are highly similar, with the exception of her stance on late term abortion. Thus, Clinton’s outrage at the moderators, for not giving her an opportunity to articulate and differentiate her positions in comparison to Sanders, appears to be merely an oration trick known as an appeal to sympathy.

Clinton is performing amazing acts of magic here: she is managing to convince her loyal supporters that she can be trusted to fight for their reproductive rights, while simultaneously laying the foundation to take those same rights away — and doing so in front of their very own eyes!

WHY WOULD A NICE GIRL EVER WANT TO HAVE A LATE TERM ABORTION?

Most people know little about late term abortions. Forced-birthers. whose true goal is to deny ALL choice to ALL women, try to exploit this situation by spreading propaganda to convince others that abortions are evil and the women who have them are monsters. Forced-birthers are actively working to chip away at choice; one method is via personhood and heartbeat bills that sound reasonable to those who do not understand the true consequences of such bills.

The number one [Daily Kos] reason that women get abortions past 24 weeks is due to fetal anomalies. I share my own story in [Daily Kos] All Democrats SHOULD be United - Late Term Abortion Restrictions Trap and Torture Innocent Women. As I understand Clinton’s position on late term abortion regulations, I would NOT have been eligible for an exception, and so would have been forced to continue with my doomed pregnancy until “nature took it’s course”. The key issue: Clinton has expressed support for exceptions in case of the life or health of the mother (based on Roe vs. Wade), but not exceptions for the life or health of the baby (where Roe is silent).

Another story is the tale of Taylor Mahaffey, which is described in [Daily Kos] Woman forced to give birth to stillborn in Texas because of 'Women's Health Laws' . A serious complication arose that doomed her pregnancy after 20 weeks, but because of late term regulations enacted in her state, the doctors were not legally able to give her an abortion. Texas law DOES provide exceptions for both the mother and the baby, but in Taylor’s case, mother and child were both healthy even though the pregnancy itself was doomed. Taylor did not qualify for an abortion under the law, so doctors had no choice but to withhold medical care until the fetus died or her labor progressed. What this woman was forced to endure is horrific.

When [she] started bleeding, they went back to the hospital, but with Fox’s heart still beating, doctors couldn’t legally interfere.
“Eventually she was just screaming at them to get the child out of her,” Daniel said.

The whole premise of late term abortion regulations is ridiculous: mentally healthy women who do not wish to be pregnant take necessary steps to end their pregnancy earlier in the process, when it is easier, cheaper, and much less risky to their own health. In contrast, women who need late term abortions primarily consist of women who truly want their babies, but tragedy has intervened.

The great Molly Ivins put it this way:

Molly Ivins Quote

I submit to you that late term pregnancy regulations are not enacted because America needs to put an end to a huge flood of heartless women who are using third trimester abortions as a form of birth control. Such thoughts are indeed nightmarish, but most people wake from their sleep and realize that such dreams are not real. Women do not turn into heartless monsters after 20 weeks — where on earth does such a hateful idea come from?

I submit to you that late term pregnancy regulations are enacted because of a scandalous idea that polls well. Clever politicians have come to realize that embracing this idea and passing “feel-good” legislation to prevent mythical monster mothers from dismembering their innocent babies wins them cheap and easy political points. Forced-birther propaganda is purposely designed to inflame the passions of those who hear it, and goes unchecked and unchallenged in the mainstream media. Because mythical monster mothers do not exist, they make the perfect scapegoat: absolutely nobody will speak out on their behalf. Everybody is united in contempt for their mythical monster crimes.

I’ve come to realize that it is only when women like me speak out will the heinous myths about us be revealed for what they are: perverted lies spread by those who are willing to exploit others in the interest of political gain. Speaking out is painful for all women who have had these medical procedures, including me, especially on a website where I anticipate I will be judged negatively and even reviled for speaking out on this issue. I feel a moral obligation to “pay it forward” in gratitude for the humane treatment I received in my most desperate hour, because so few are able and willing to speak the truth on this issue. If not me, who? If not now, when?

Women who have late term abortions are not monsters who should be ashamed. We are victims of fate who have experienced tragedy. Our dreams, our lives have been shattered. The mama-bear inside me is full of rage and fury at the thought of any politician who would abuse our reputations and literally subject us to torture in order to advance their own careers.

Voters need to understand that late term abortion regulations do not save innocent babies. Instead, these “feel good” laws lead directly to hell by setting traps for hapless mothers cursed by fate. Those who lend support for these laws are directly culpable for the horrific experiences that women like Tayor Mahaffey are ultimately forced to endure. Please don’t cry empty tears for Tayor — instead make your feelings known to all politicians, both Republican and Democratic, that you oppose all forms of torture, including late-term pregnancy regulations. Such action will give meaning to her suffering, for the world will become a better place for others because of what she experienced and the actions her family has taken to enlighten others.

Taking choice away from grieving and desperate mothers is cruel, barbaric, and makes a mockery out of the entire pro-choice movement. If feminists decide to embrace Hillary Clinton’s stance on late term abortion, they are going to need to put on their thinking caps, because pro-choice will no longer be a fitting name.

Reading List
[Daily Kos] Mercy Abortions: Let me preach to the choir — annrose
[Daily Kos] Mercy Abortions: What Dr. Tiller Did — annrose
[Daily Kos] Woman forced to give birth to stillborn in Texas because of 'Women's Health Laws' — Walter Einenkel
[Daily Kos] All Democrats SHOULD be United - Late Term Abortion Restrictions Trap and Torture Innocent Women — Older and Wiser Now
[Daily Kos] What Bernie Actually Said About Abortion & how his position is significantly more pro-woman — MsGrin
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Older and Wiser Now's picture

But it's been a long day, and I'm off to bed now. I hope folks like this, and I will respond to comments tomorrow. Also, I'm hoping/planning to publish this at TOP tomorrow too, based on your feedback. Thank you!

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~OaWN

PriceRip's picture

          I am sick and tired of this as being a "debatable" topic. This is settled science, this is settled sociology, this is settled ethics, et cetera. But, you have produced a very good summary.
          As for TOP, I am sure you know they will go medieval on your reference to HRC, sigh. Truth is of little value to those who believe.

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

But to borrow HRC's words, "this one is personal".

I want to make it as difficult as possible for the deluded to continue to delude themselves. Thanks for dropping by.

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~OaWN

elenacarlena's picture

I hope everyone who is unaware of the importance of women being free to choose late-term abortion will read this. It is amazing to me that the Anointed One would throw pregnant women under the bus like this. Think of the good it would have done, had she spoken to these tragedies instead of pandering.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

That Hillary would throw women under the bus?

#1, that's what this woman does. Everybody is expendable when it comes to her achieving power.

#2, the Clinton mantra during Bill's administration was "safe, legal & rare." That is NOT unequivocal support of a woman's right to choose. It's just more Clintonian triangulation, which is what was on display in the fox town hall. (She was also asked about abortion by Chuck Todd after this, and more word salad on the subject was tossed). NARAL & pp were fools to endorse her in the primaries, but their leadership are part of the bought & paid for establishment.

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elenacarlena's picture

something should be women and children. At least. But Hill doesn't live by any of my "shoulds," clearly.

I'd like abortion to be safe, legal and rare - rare because women are empowered, in control of their bodies and personal space, not attacked, not manipulated. Rare because birth control is common and we discuss family planning openly. NOT rare because there are no abortion clinics, which is what Repubs have made it out to be! Access should be everywhere.

Totally agree about PP and NARAL. I get $#I+ about this, but PP emails go to my spam folder now. If I have extra money, I'll donate to a local group providing access to women. If PP PAC has millions to spend to promote Hill in the primary, they don't need my money.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Older and Wiser Now's picture

Hopefully you can see that, lol. As always, I think your feedback made it so much better, so thank you tons, once again.

I agree, that on THIS topic of all topics, it is amazing that she is open to shift to the right. Nothing is sacred, everything is subject to compromise.

xoxoxo ~OaWN

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~OaWN

lunachickie's picture

This is where Hillary Clinton lost me for good. OMG, I saw red when I heard that. Still see it, in fact.

I can't even. It wasn't long after that she got all nicey-nice with Kissinger. I wanted to break shit....

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

Thanks for stopping by.

"I can't even." - that perfectly captures the emotions of so many, I think. How can we? We just can't.

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~OaWN

Expresses the frustration of not being listened to by the Clintonistas as they lecture us on our foolishness for wanting true Democracy.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

thanatokephaloides's picture

It wasn't long after that she got all nicey-nice with Kissinger. I wanted to break shit....

[video:https://youtu.be/-NzFJxX8yoY]

Bad

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

stevej's picture

would just be a continuation of the 'everything is negotiable' style of presidency so favored by third wayers and the philosophically bankrupt of late.

The fact that she can't even be trusted to draw a line in the sand re this issue says everything.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

for writing this. I, too, have a tale that involves the military, the Hyde Amendment, and almost losing my wife. I've been working(?) on it for a while. It hurts to do so. But I think it's necessary. Will tip and rec this when you post at GOS. Update us when you do post there?
Again, thank you.

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .

If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march

Older and Wiser Now's picture

I am so sorry to hear about your wife's struggle. Yes, it does hurt to do so. FYI, I decided to rework the closing paragraphs to include this:

"I’ve come to realize that it is only when women like me speak out will the heinous myths about us be revealed for what they are: perverted lies spread by those who are willing to exploit others in the interest of political gain. Speaking out is painful for all women who have had these medical procedures, including me, especially on a website where I anticipate I will be judged negatively and even reviled for speaking out on this issue. I feel a moral obligation to “pay it forward” in gratitude for the humane treatment I received in my most desperate hour, because so few are able and willing to speak the truth on this issue. If not me, who? If not now, when?"

I ended up writing my first diary to tell my own story because I could not stand the crocodile tears of HRC supporters who were so upset by Taylor's story. They were so stuck in the groove of "look, Republicans are EVIL" and "we just have to elect a DEM". They recc'd Taylor's story to high heaven - the diary even got 10,000 shares. Mine? It didn't make the rec list - they ignore it, because they don't like hearing that the Anointed One could ever be so wrong.

Writing comments to them in Taylor's diary was so painful - everything came rushing back. But then I thought, what the hell, I might as well write a diary since I was already at that place - and somehow I got more numb over time, which is another blessing I think. Also, I had support from the fabulous Women for Bernie - who are so awesome-possum with an extra serving of awesome-possum sauce!

Hugs to your wife. I would be interested in hearing her story when you finish it. Thank you for being willing to help out on GOS, that means the world to me, I know how difficult it is for many to go there at all. I want this one to make the reclist, even better go viral. I want the world to know about the true HRC. Thank you again.
~OaWN

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~OaWN

riverlover's picture

pregnancy failure, when all amniotic fluid all leaked out. 21 weeks. I as a mother was not happy about the pregnancy, but supported her decision to not undo early. There was a week when she learned the sex by ultrasound, and the amount of amniotic fluid was too small. Crisis into a "difficult pregnancy", new specialist called in, for a child using Medicaid. 40 miles away from home. The amniotic sac broke less than a day after she and boyfriend learned it was a boy. 21 weeks.

The local hospital admitted her (there may have been a physician change) to epidural her for labor and dead delivery. Labor did not start, so a cervical drug was administered to promote vaginal delivery (I am being careful with wording). Within 15 hours there was a vaginal delivery of a fetus who was not dead, but could not breathe. I held him while the delivering doctor assured us that that movement was reflexive (pretend he was what we would consider stillborn). He reflexively gasped for several hours more with just his mother and father in a private room. With live babies crying nearby. I paid for his cremation. A little bit of dust.

I had assured her that that particular hospital was not prepared for early preemies. She was aware of that, and we were all aware that a fetus born just past halfway was most likely to die or be saved, for a time, maybe to go home, being extremely disabled and a healthcare and life burden. One or two weeks more, and the disaster could really unfold.

What a cowardly and pandering way for that woman to second-guess. She transmits that late-term fetal removal is done by cutting them up, which is extremely rare, for very late-term deaths of mis-positioned births. I avoided a word there, because I don't want to bring in particular believers.

All women who have had late-term pregnancy losses feel terrible. They failed to even produce a baby that someone else would want. I am very angry.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

riverlover's picture

at the time of pregnancy she was 17, finished HS in summer school and then hung out with BF family, being pregnant. My view of her life potential was not positive. [she has matured into a late-bloomer, now an RN, married, finishing her BSRN and starting her Master's in nursing this summer]

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

PriceRip's picture

          Those of us that have lived a life in the real world, empathize; those that have not, analyze. It is awful (IMO) that, for some people, this is political fodder.
          In the context of the original article, my opinion, HRC's opinion, even BS's opinion of your comment is of little import. As I read, I "see" the scene in my head, and it is not an academic question, any uninvited intervention from outside is by definition, intrusive. That being said, I appreciate your sharing, and as always have hope for a good future. (Trying not to go too saccharine here.)

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

I was in my late 30's. Being 17 and having to experience all of that? ... it just takes my breath away. And you as a mother have to watch it and yet be so helpless to change it, at the very same time. I don't know what else to say, but it makes me glad that perhaps I might do a bit of good for her, and maybe you?, by publishing these diaries.

One of my favorite quotes is "Be kind to everyone you meet, for they are on a difficult journey". We truly do not know some of the struggles that our fellow travelers are dealing with, stories like yours. I'm sending virtual {{{{{hugs}}}}} to you both - please do something kind for yourself today, ok? Maybe a warm bath? Those are my favorite form of TLC (other than ice cream, of course).
xoxoxoxoxoxoxo ~OaWN

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~OaWN

Raggedy Ann's picture

lost her baby at 22 weeks. She delivered the child, who lived for a few days. She was underdeveloped - heart, lungs - and could not survive. It is traumatic. These folks just don't get it. HRC will never get it.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Older and Wiser Now's picture

She is a brilliant woman. And the way she carefully parses her words, and dances around the Bret Baier interview, she fucking knows exactly what she is doing. It should be criminal.

I'm sorry to hear about your girlfriend's daughter, RA. My heart goes out to you all. Life really is a little miracle when it all goes right. {{{hugs}}}
xoxo ~OaWN

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~OaWN

Raggedy Ann's picture

HRC knows exactly what she's doing, which is why I will NEVER vote for her.

My heart reaches out to you to, {{{OaWN}}}, for your own trauma. xoxo

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Older and Wiser Now's picture

TBH, I'm good today. Rather numb to the pain, and actually enjoying making lemonade from all of the lemons Smile

She cannot win. She just cannot. We cannot allow it.

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~OaWN

in politics for a long time. I have never seen a pol like clinton. I truly do not know where she stands on any issue. She hasn't an ounce of integrity or shame. She is a chameleon on steroids. How in the world people support her is beyond me...
Oh, and if Bernie cuts any deals with her at the convention, should she win, thinking this cretin would honor them, he is out of his mind...

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

I agree, he would be out of his mind. HRC folks who are expecting him to do that, they so don't get it. What is happening today is not 2008, by a long shot.

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~OaWN

endorsed her.
The only way to keep her or Trump out of the White house is an indictment.
Where is the DOJ on the "process" that was supposed to be concluded weeks ago?

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sandino's picture

between women's rights to their own bodies and right-wing fundamentalists’ rights to those same women’s bodies is truly a feat of near Solomonic wisdom… talk about splitting the baby. We can’t risk what we have by letting women take control of their entire pregnancies all at once. This is another case where clear headed incrementalism is clearly superior to the wild idealism of these kids who don’t do any research and keep getting on my lawn.

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MsGrin's picture

My only quibble is with your saying that Clinton is 'essentially open' to increased restriction.

I think it's way beyond that - I think she'd very much like to see it happen because it would actually make her position/record on abortion more *complete* somehow in the way she seems to want to know about herself. Should she get some such legislation introduced or passed, I believe she would feel completely comfortable both telling Planned Parenthood supporters that she's fighting for their rights, and in the next breath turn around and tell Fox News watchers that she's for limiting unfettered access to abortion. She very often appears to be stretching to play both sides of the aisle, and this appears to be a case where she has a plan to pull it off. Just my thought. This is a clear example of the Which Hillary phenomenon.

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

Older and Wiser Now's picture

FYI, I axed the "essentially" just for you. I think you are right. She would have changed the world in a way consistent with "her faith", lol.

Ok, now I'm bracing myself to face the lions ...

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~OaWN

when I was in the Army and on the pill. I had always had irregular cycles and really didn't think I could even get pregnant but was always on the pill anyway. Since I was on it and still got pregnant, I did not know and did not see any "signs" of pregnancy until I was about 4 months along. I was 24 at the time. As I was young and in the military, I'd been drinking, had vaccinations for possible deployment, smoked, etc. I did not look pregnant AT ALL. When I finally figured it out, I scheduled an abortion as soon as possible - I have never wanted children, ever, and was not going to have one with someone I had only really been "dating" if we can call it that.

When I went in and was up on the table, ready to get it done, the doctor very brusquely told me I was farther along than they could handle there and quickly left the room. Then the "counseling" started - what about the father? What about marrying him and having it? I looked right at them and basically said that I had already made my decision, that was why I was there! I was fully aware of what my options were. And that baby by then would most assuredly not have been very healthy - so I would bring into the world a baby I did not want, and possibly one severely damaged for life. Far better for me to make the "selfish" decision to terminate than to force someone else to live with my life choices, and a child to boot.

I then had to go to one of two clinics in that state that would do one after 19 weeks. It wasn't easy, but once it was over all I felt was relief. And thank God for that. I simply cannot imagine what my life would have been or that child's life could have been.

This is a story I have not shared with many people. Not many have the stomach to listen to it, and some would undoubtedly judge. I did have one friend who attempted that at the time but as I told him - you were not there, it was not your life, you did not have to make that decision. Putting it like that, he agreed it was not his place to judge my actions. And this from a man who desperately wanted children and could not have them. But he had no right to judge that.

As for Billary, she sits up in that ivory tower never having had to make these life affecting choices while alone, scared and with no meaningful financial support. She's damned near as bad as some Repugnant Tea Bag men are about this, isn't she? Tone deaf, unaware of what reality actually looks and feels like, and judgmental to the core.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Older and Wiser Now's picture

I know it's a big friggin deal that you shared it here. No matter what, it's always a difficult decision to make, and a time in your life that one will always remember, I think. I have irregular cycles too, so I totally get how it could happen, I never really track my last dates (don't really need to these days).

People are so quick to judge others without knowing the details. I think it's almost a fatal human flaw. And yes, HRC is acting out of her own best interests I think, not the interests of those who are stupid enough to vote for her.

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~OaWN

but you know, at my age I think I may need to be a bit more open with it. It can happen to ANYONE, and that's one thing I think too many just don't consider. There but for the grace of Goddess, or whatever, but you get my point.

I thought I did everything right and still ended up in a horrible situation. I never allowed myself to think "baby" either - I had another friend who condemned herself repeatedly for having "killed her baby" when she had one. I hope to God she's gotten over that by now, this was 30 years ago, but you just never know. It scarred her terribly emotionally.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

thanatokephaloides's picture

OaWN, your story touched me and reminded me of why we cannot and must not allow certain religious cults any access to abortion policy in this supposedly free nation. They want to ban abortion because it offends their God, let them cough their God up on camera. To their own Hell with their lying wishful thinking they euphemize as "faith".

I live in the city where Richard Dear committed several murders trying to end access to this medical procedure; as I am writing this, the site of that horror lies less than 4 miles away.

I will seek the iteration of this article at TOP and rec it if I still can......

Give rose

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Older and Wiser Now's picture

This is an awful subject to have to think about, I suppose that's part of why we avoid it. To be so close to such a crime scene ... I feel for you.

I'm a UU (not so much practising these days), but that made me feel a special connection to Dr. Tiller. He was a UU, he was killed in a UU church, and the kids were putting on a pageant that day. Man, it's almost as if I was actually there ...

Thanks for your help at TOP ... 258 recs and 58 shares ... that makes me so very thrilled ... thank you!

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~OaWN

NWIA's picture

I don't think enough about issues like abortion. A story like yours helps wake me up to serious problems I too easily push to the back of my mind. Thank you very much for this powerful and well researched post!

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Older and Wiser Now's picture

I do want people to think differently about late-term abortions. I'm glad you had a positive connection to what I wrote, that means so much to me.

Thanks for your post.

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~OaWN

HILLARY CLINTON IS NOT A DEMOCRAT... she's a paid Koch Brothers Corporate Shill.. always HAS been and always WILL BE.

And now Koch money is rigging elections by messing with the closing of polling places, changing people's polling status; by giving out an interview that Shillary is probably a better presidential candidate than any of the Repuglicants, sending funds to armies of online trolls, all with Clintons-carried suggestions and enthusiasm to their mentor and major funder.

She is NOT and never has been pro-choice. She isn't even a feminist.

I am a feminist and I know whereof I speak. I'm a progressive and I say to you and others here that she's still the same Republican she was when she met Bill and later married him.

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Muerte al fascismo. Muerte a la tiranía. colapso total de los que promueven tampoco. A la pared con el unico porciento%

thanatokephaloides's picture

I say to you and others here that she's still the same Republican she was when she met Bill and later married him.

And the fact that she could acquire a "D" after her name courtesy of some over-worked, job-threatened county clerk in Dumhick, Arkansas doesn't change that. Hell, Bill himself doesn't really count as a Democrat either. All Dixiecrats, "No Labels", Third Way, New Democrats are really Republicans, every last fucking one of them. And would to Cat they would make honest men and women of themselves and go register as R where they belong.

Real Democrats would be recognizable as such in continuously-loyal States in 1975.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Late term abortions aren't irresponsible WHIM.. they're tragedies in the lives of women who were at one level at least committed to being a parent or to giving a born child to someone who wanted to raise a child.

You just don't get that big in the belly and swaybacked and bladder compressed without thinking of that fetus in there as the born child it'll be when it finally comes out after labor, which at term is usually pretty bloody hard work and damned uncomfortable.

Pregnancy is as dangerous as being on a battlefield. There are a LOT of ways to get killed, crippled, messed up, before it's over.

Women may panic some in first labor, because it's damned scary. It isn't some cute, star-twinkle lullabloodybye. However, most women won't make a whim choice to abort late term UNLESS, the fetus is in trouble and dying (or dead by the time a physician gets his hands on her belly in the ER), or SHE is in medical trouble and heading to the mortuary unless the fetus is taken out of her belly.

Most of the time, a birth is looked forward to, being prepared for, and it involves a lot of invested emotions, as well as funds, changing around of the household, and a lot of anticipation, good or bad is irrelevant... because an *infant* is expected at the end of labor. People are mentally prepared to deal with a baby, one way or the other.

Outlawing a life-saving procedure or attempting to DELAY emergency work so some slag-sloping 3-piece-suiter bureaucrat can poke his nose between a woman's legs, as it were, to be sure there's really a life in danger... is UTTER CRAP.

That Shillary would even open the door on this shit AGAIN.. after 25 years of fighting over this.. and that's just how long *I* have fought it, on line and in person, is ANTI-FEMINIST, anti-woman, inhumane and IMO, ANTI-FAMILY.

This woman and all who support her must be REMOVED FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

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Muerte al fascismo. Muerte a la tiranía. colapso total de los que promueven tampoco. A la pared con el unico porciento%

Older and Wiser Now's picture

Very well said. And thank you for dropping by.

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~OaWN

riverlover's picture

Or danced away with it, years ago. I have lost my taste for the not-as-awful brand. I am quite sure that I will personally suffer under any Chosen by the Elites candidate. CC is happening and the Band Plays On. I will never vote for that power-hungry woman. Assuming the USA exists longer than 3 election cycles, her Presidency would set back women's efforts for election parity well beyond that, even as an average POTUS. Sad to see that poor choice by others.

I refuse to give up, like, what?, 60% of eligible voters? I hope that the Millennials will wake up to their numbers and seize control, try to make government run for them; they are the one who will have to deal with this crap until time runs out.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.