Here We Go
After weeks saying the Russians stole the elections for Trump and not putting US - Russia relations in any sort of jeopardy, oh noes, no sabre rattling there.
Now the press is saying, typified by the NYT, but, but:
WASHINGTON — The American military strike against Syria threatened Russian-American relations on Friday as the Kremlin denounced President Trump’s use of force and the Russian military announced that it was suspending an agreement to share information about air operations over the country, devised to avoid accidental conflict.
Mr. Trump, who has made repairing strained ties with Moscow a central ambition of his presidency, even amid criticism of Russian meddling in last year’s American election, found that goal at risk as the countries traded harsh words in a diplomatic confrontation reminiscent of past dark moments between the two powers.
Now they are suddenly worried about US- Russia relations.
The bolded lines are probably the most important result of this military action, it's one of the few things preventing direct conflict between Russian and US forces.
I thought this is what our MSM wanted?
Russia and the United States have traded barbs at an ill-tempered emergency session of the UN Security Council called by Moscow after the US army launched a barrage of cruise missiles against a Syrian government airbase.
The rhetoric about Russia!! over about a year has constantly heralded the Russians as the number one enemy of the State. If not for the Russians!! we would have the sensibly warmongering Hillary Clinton who said we should have bombed Syrian forces a whole lot earlier.
Name me one US war in the region that has been a success, none of them are over.
Name me one military action that has made us safer.
Name me one military action that has resulted in fewer terrorists and a decline in radicalization.
Name me one country in the region whose people [not their leaders] have benefited from our interventions, even Israelis have not truly benefited.
Our politicians and MSM just love the jingoistic rhetoric, they do not even bother to inform anyone as to the root causes of the Syrian civil war. Our government refuses to accept any form of criticism for destabilizing a whole region refuses any acknowledgement of historical interference and refuses to regard the heart of the sentiments the I/P conflict. Who supported the dictators [when convenient] that the Arab Spring was supposed to overthrow?
The region has long been a proxy war solely for "our" geo-political "benefit" and corporate profits.
I am not sure how bombing some more is going to solve anything at anytime.
I doubt it is meant to.
Comments
You're making too much sense.
Cut it out!
Never mind, I forgot that that's not only permitted but actually encouraged here.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
I'm enjoying watching the confusion both party faithful
"HER WE GO"??
Typo, or clever reference to she who should not be named?
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
Can I claim both? Typo
Absolutely!
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
and the war goes on
you are a smart person and know a good bit about what is happening.
you seem to want this stuff stopped now. what difference does that make? has it made?
0. so far. we can not stop them.
necessity must be the mother of Invention,or we are sunk.
(Dog help us, for we know not what to do.)
thx. I read your posts with interest.
I wanted it stopped before we went waltzing into Afghanistan
I was called un-American and borderline traitor at the time and not just by one side of the duopoly.
The MSM, politicians and party partizans love this jingoistic bullshit and until that ends the wars, carnage and misery will continue.
@LaFeminista
They hate it when you're right - especially when you're right so often - and most especially when nobody's ever supposed to figure out the connection between the actions and the results...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Trump gets a ratings surge for killing some kids.
"Ain't that America, you and me."
It's all based on lies, that's the thing. Even people who know that can get caught up in the details and forget the primary issue, that it's all lies. My daughter and granddaughter asked me about the Syria attack yesterday and I told them that it is nothing but power and greed games among the rich and powerful, it has nothing to do with our security and safety and nothing to do with the safety and security of Syrians. If more people could get that thru their heads.
Decades of spoon fed propaganda has lead to
Oh the irony and hypocrisy
An air strike believed to have been carried out by the U.S.-led coalition against Islamic State killed 15 people including four children in a village west of the jihadists’ stronghold of Raqqa on Saturday, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.
The spokesman for the U.S.-led coalition could not be reached for immediate comment.
The air strike took place at Hanida, some 30 km (20 miles) west of Raqqa on the southern bank of the Euphrates River,
Do does Syria get to bomb an airport now or is this more US exceptionalism?
@snoopydawg
Maybe Syria will let Trump do the punishment himself; that'd do less damage as most of the missiles would vanish, probably winding up in the same place as those missing trillions of public dollars that mysteriously disappear from time to time.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
If only there were a way
to make greed punishable or bannable by law.
Send them out to the wilderness for a little contemplation.
@Big Al
One of my roommates said that he approved of what Trump had done, and the poor guy got overflowing earfulls about the situation until he finally said 'Uncle' and started talking about government corruption... Am I ever glad I don't watch TV!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
We're not stopping until we take Canada.....ay?
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
♫ ♪ Blame Canada ♫ ♪ Blame Canada ♫ ♪
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
We'd get Royally Fucked if we try to invade Canada
The last time we messed with them they invaded and burnt down the White House. Don't forget all the sleeper cells they have in Florida and Arizona ready to rise up in defense, eh?
@CB
And most of them are under-armed with that 'old person' smell. We knew it would come to this, and we've long been preparing.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Teddy seems to have nailed it.
https://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/
"POLITICAL PARTIES EXIST TO SECURE RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT AND TO EXECUTE THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. FROM THESE GREAT TASKS BOTH OF THE OLD PARTIES HAVE TURNED ASIDE. INSTEAD OF INSTRUMENTS TO PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, THEY HAVE BECOME THE TOOLS OF CORRUPT INTERESTS WHICH USE THEM IMPARTIALLY TO SERVE THEIR SELFISH PURPOSES. BEHIND THE OSTENSIBLE GOVERNMENT SITS ENTHRONED AN INVISIBLE GOVERNMENT, OWING NO ALLEGIANCE AND ACKNOWLEDGING NO RESPONSIBILITY TO THE PEOPLE." THEODORE ROOSEVELT, AUG 1912
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Indeed and said it quite awhile ago, it has got worse.
The other meaning for
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
And the people are still paying for that will
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
@ghotiphaze
"Execute the will of the people"
"Execute. With extreme prejudice."
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
Senate needs to reassert its war powers authority
Everyone knows Trump is a pathological liar. So how can anyone believe his statements that Assad was responsible for the gas attack and that Russia was involved? Senators, especially, should assume these statements are lies until and unless proof is provided. Unless the senate insists on exercising its constitutional responsibility on war waging, I believe there is a high likelihood Trump will lead us into World War III.
Vermonter
Congress isn't going to do that.
They are working for corporations and the MIC that have an abiding interest in war and war profiteering.
We are, quite frankly, fucked until a critical mass of the people get fed up and revolt.
That's pretty much my assessment
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
If the Dems want to castrate
the new president this may be the best chance they will ever get.
Of course this information could also be useful for future compliance. Maybe the Trumpster was suckered into this rash decision? His entire public performance for the last two years has been based on rash comments that had not been fully thought out. He ended up walking them back. But his missile strike on Syria cannot be walked back. The man is a grave threat, not only to America but to world peace.
When was the last time America had the proverbial "bull in a china shop" as president? Truth be told, Trump has now proven to be unfit for service. Not that Her would be much better. We live in interesting times. Hopefully we may live to tell our grandchildren about it.
Thank Dog that the adversaries in this instance are rational people. Putin and Lavrov, the only adults in the house at this time. It will be interesting how they will play out their next move. It will not come spontaneously nor quickly but will be well thought out and reasoned.
If Trump is testing Putin's resolve to defend Syria,
I think he will discover it to be very firm. The question is, how hard and to what extent will Trump dare to push the Russian bear in Syria? If this boils down to a battle of wits between Putin and Trump, we'll have a chess player vs a checkers player.
The supposed casus belli for the attack was of course, a steaming pile of bullshit. Which did not prevent msm from eagerly swallowing it as per usual... msm's appetite for war propaganda, even low-grade propaganda like this, being positively voracious.
And to what effect, Trump's belligerence? By most accounts, more than half those Tomahawk missiles missed their target, and Syrian airfield will be again operational in a matter of days. I think probably the attack was more of a political stunt to bolster Trump's macho image, than a serious attempt to inflict damage on Syrian forces. And probably Putin is aware of this... thank Dog, as you say.
Or maybe not -- it's very difficult to gauge the degree of "logic" behind anything Trump does.
But if Trump were to continue pushing, prodding, and/or harrassing the R+6 coalition, I think there could be very serious consequences indeed. Exactly where Putin's red line might be, we don't know. But I think Trump could very easily stumble across it unawares and unprepared. Advance planning is obviously not his strong suit.
native
The airfield is back in service and
the SAA is back bombing the very same region as before. I figure the Russian Aerospace Forces will increase their bombing in order to make up for lost time.
Here is web site for daily reports of airstrikes by Russia and SAA in Syria:
Here's April 7
Here's April 6
The more I study the subject, the more I'm inclined to think that Trump is being setup. Foreign policy was never his strong suit. It is an extremely complex subject that cannot be mastered by one man in a few weeks as Trump presumes it to be.
History has shown Trump's strong suit is flim-flam man. His entire performance to-date has been little more than as carny barker who understood the art of the spiel to sucker the rubes.
We will know when the media starts to attack him on this decision.
Thanks for the links CB, they are very informative.
You think the media will start to attack Trump on this? The gutless, war-loving, Putin-hating, CIA-infested media? I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen, though it would be nice if it did. My faith in the veracity of "Western" media has plummeted to an all-time low, and it was never very high to begin with.
native
Other than this strike, the western media has been
on the attack against Trump. When it is revealed that the attack did little to nothing to stop Russia or Syria continuing with their destruction of the terrorists they may start to believe Trump was just appeasing them and is still in cahoots with diabolical Putin. Don't forget that Putin was pre-warned about the attacks. I'm also wondering if the extremely poor performance of the Tomahawks was not actually programmed in by the more sane military.
That is the meme on DK
Since the runway wasn't destroyed by the bombs, that means that Trump was just doing it to appease Putin.
They must think that Trump himself was the one who aimed the bombs and make sure that not much damage was done. Seriously, that is basically what they are saying.
The buildings that were hit contained planes and other equipment, but the blood thirsty idiots wanted more deaths and destruction.
I have only seen 3 people bother to ask what right did Trump have for bombing a country that hadn't threatened ours.
And after the bombings, our military dropped bombs and killed civilians including children. I haven't heard anyone speaking about that.
As to your thoughts about Trump being set up, I agree with you. I don't think he's even calling the shots in any of the countries that the military is in. He has turned control over to the pentagon and the rest of the defense ministry.
Funny how two days before the bombing he said that regime change wasn't the objective.
@native
And the checkers player is a unthinking, spoilt, egotistical bully facing a very tough, pragmatic and courageous (edit: pragmatic in the real sense) chess master who will go nuclear not until, but upon the instant that the situation appears hopeless.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
The bombing is meant to keep the war going.
More: Is US Policy to Prolong the Syrian War?
There is also the oil pipeline that the Saudi's want built through Syria as well as a Qatari gas pipeline. They are trying to cut off Russia from the European energy market. http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/04/28/seymour-hersh-hillary-approved-sending-libya-sarin-syrian-rebels.html
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
The 900 pound gorilla in the room
has also publicly stated if Assad cannot be removed and replaced with a more compliant leader then it is better to have the terrorists continue fighting and killing in Syria.
@CB
Doesn't the US claim a right to kill people who aren't them and who are suspected of aiding terrorists? Then again, Likud is pathological Parasite Class and therefore them, and they share billionaires and all, so I guess not... wouldn't it be lovely if this was only snark?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
MoA has food for thought - as usual
I can confirm that al Qaeda affiliated groups have started to lose very badly in the last two weeks. Prior to these losses, the newly form HTS had made considerable gains against the city of Hama using more heavy and highly effective weapons such as US manufactured TOW than I've seen in any other large operation before. It was almost a "do or die" operation by the terrorists and it failed. They needed to be rescued. They were getting the crap kicked out of them by the Syrian air force - who have returned to bombing the very same area today so as to not let the terrorists time to rearm and regroup.
Another good quote:
Bold added.
More: http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/04/07/roaming-charges-metaphysical-graffiti/
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Yep. More dead kids.
Just read the Al Jazeera article
Holy Land indeed! What a tragedy for the world. I wish the United Nations would put a priority on peace in the Middle East.
FUGWB.
Over at the GOS it's all political conspiracy theories and worse - armchair generals analyzing bombs, targeting, and observed destruction/killing. American arrogance turning Syrian civil war/outsider bombings into reality show gamesmanship.
[I have to admit, through all of this, since 2003, I have respected the pluck of the Kurds. They will not be denied their ancestral homeland.]
Why has Europe, a neighbor to all this, done, what? nothing? And the Arab States? Worse still. A rhetorical question. I know, USSR/Russia, Sunni/Shia, history, etc. Oh, where are the peacemakers?
European Governments are mainly backing the US no matter
On GOS they have gone full conspiracy with a top
Personally I have read some real bullshit over there recently, but that one really takes the biscuit.
As long as it is Russia!!! hurt Hillary central [who wants to bomb Syria anyway] then they cannot be reasoned with.
The GOS seems to have largely abandoned
reason as a primary tool. To go there is to be deluged with such massive waves of ill-informed hogwash, that any attempts at rationality are sure to be overwhelmed and swept away on the raging river of Russophobia. Dissent has been proscribed. Objectivity is a thing of the past. Go there to observe, to marvel at the power and intractability of group-think, but stand well clear of the current.
native
Good morning, La Fem, thanks.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Woooowww. Shame on all of you for forgetting that it's all
been about bringing democracy to the region. (Whatever has been going on in weird Lebanon since 1943 doesn't count.)
As always, the U.S.A. is being a beacon to the rest of the world, focusing on the Middle East so no one has to be jealous of our freedoms.
Now, shush your cynical pieholes, er, keyboards.
The beacon as in the exposive flash of a bomb
Ah yes, Democracy...
at the end of the barrel of a gun. It's a USA specialty, one of our greatest exports. We'll deliver it to your doorstep free of charge, courtesy of the American taxpayer. Hell we've got enough weaponry to keep you Democratized until the cows come home.
What cows, you may ask? Collateral damage my good man, collateral damage. We can't make a good Democratic omelette for you without breaking a few eggs now, can we?
native
Donald Trump, Republican nominee
for President of the United States fully agrees with you!
Is Trump psychotic, schizophrenic, insane, an idiot or does he have early onset dementia? It has to be one of these. There is no other explanation for his erratic behavior.
@CB He's probably all of
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Trump is a liar with no core beliefs
His previous statements were never anything but campaign rhetoric. He had to take a position different from HRC and Obama, so he said they were all wrong on this. If they had been against intervention, he'd have called them weak and been in favor of it. He ran as NotObamaClinton, saying whatever it took to appear to be the opposite of them. None of it had anything to do with what he would do as president.
That to me is what has been made clear in this complete reversal. He never believed what he was saying about it in the first place.
But even if he did, being generous, and has suddenly changed his "thinking" on the subject... it was always obvious that Trump is reactionary and insecure, making him extremely easy to goad and jerk around and control by manipulating his ego.
So it's to be expected that he would be mercurial and highly unpredictable at best, prone to changing his ideas on a dime, depending on what is expedient to making him popular and/or who he is listening to at any given moment.
Because he has no core beliefs or firm center within his own mind, no one can predict what he will do, and nothing he says mean anything in terms of what he will say tomorrow, or even 5 minutes from now. Some have argued that this is a good thing. Others think he's as smart as he says he is, and brilliantly playing elaborate multidimensional chess. I don't see that at all. I think his instability and mental weakness are very dangerous. But it's not surprising and his supporters, like Ann Coulter, who are now acting shocked and angry at this reversal, make me laugh. What did they expect when they decided to support a childlike bully who is an obvious liar and con man with no principles?
Wrote this in early December
https://caucus99percent.com/content/trumps-contradictory-military-policy
You nailed it
Trump made it clear all along that he was all about bombing people into submission and that 'making America great again' meant expanding and growing the American empire acting as the world's Godzilla. Where does America bomb? Anywhere it wants!
The war machine keeps on turning, and continues to crank up, as we knew it would regardless of which actor won on last year's season of The Election Show.
Bombs and planes and military technology cost a lot of money, and if we're not using them somewhere at all times there wouldn't be a need to keep buying new ones. That can't be allowed to happen; far too much money is up for grabs in this industry. We are in The Forever War now. For as long as they can keep it going anyway. Nothing is forever. I fear the consequences when the chickens all come home to roost.
Exploring the root causes of the Syrian Civil War
Would mean acknowledging global warming. The corporate media can never allow that.
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Global warming?
Drought in Syria responsible for worsening conditions
of rural poor causing widespread discontent with government.
Ya, knew that. But it's not what caused this war,
Rarely have wars had a single causation
These climatic conditions created the tinder required to set the country ablaze. The US, UK and their allies in the region, Israel, Qatar, KSA took full advantage. They had been preparing while the Libyan regime change operation was still in progress. It was a simple matter to move the materiel and people into Syria and start and fan the flames.
Both the conflicts were planned and well managed to take advantage of internal conditions.
I know full well that what is going on in Syria is not, nor has ever been, a civil war. Most of the comment here are a rehash of thousands of postings a number of us did in DKos - both about Libya and Syria well before the conflicts actually ignited. History has proved we were mostly correct in our assessments. Many have now been bojo'd for our efforts as the Obama/Killary pro-war, destroy the village to save the children, fuck-head pro-war 11-dimensional faction took over the narrative in DKos.
Oh ya,
Trump up to his nethers in the Washington swamp
I'm sure this will be the last time Americans will be fooled
Bwaahahahahaha....
....the United States of Amnesia.
Not sure of the accurac, but doesn't this
mean what I think it does?
http://100percentfedup.com/breaking-wikileaks-bombshell-murdered-dnc-sta...
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Since my post
Olliegarkey has posted sanity. touche! (I wish I was in France. I love Spiral on Netflix)!
Olloiegarkie did well
check out hhier diary. Well done.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/4/8/1651482/-I-m-disgusted-with-eve...
@p cook
Drat, I'm not going there, just not up to it. Too depressing...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.