Has Lynn Margulis (and many others) been vindicated about 9/11?

CIA Agent Confesses On Deathbed: ‘We Blew Up WTC7 On 9/11’This is a problem I have studied along with others far more knowledgeable all of them being shrugged off as conspiracy theorists. Maybe sometimes conspiracy theorists are right?

A lot of time has passed since articles by engineers and demolition experts have claimed a false flag operation here and what seemed outlandish is less so as Trump's presidency exposes more and more how low our government can get. Bush was no better, just less transparent.

The government of Trump is a continuation of that of Obama which in turn is a continuation of that Of Bush. Trump has shed the the cover and the evil empire stands naked. History will vindicate a lot more careful, honest doubters who did their research and spoke out.

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

Thanks for posting this.

When you have eliminated the impossible official claims, what looks most probable and fits all of the known facts is likely to be what actually happened.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

Nowhere in history had a building collapsed like WTC 7 did because of fire. The BBC interview that said that WTC 7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it actually did shows how far the collusion of the media was in this inside attack on America. During the interview when the woman reporter stated that it had fallen, the building is shown to be still standing.

For this guy to think this after knowing that so many Americans had died in the WTC towers is just unfathomable to me.

He claims he had no problem going through with the deception at the time, because “when you are a patriot, you don’t question the motivation of the CIA or the White House. You assume the bigger purpose is for a greater good. They pick good, loyal people like me, and it breaks my heart to hear the shit talk.”

This is not a patriot imo, it is a corrupt person who cannot see the evil he committed.
People died because of the agency he worked for and if there was a foreign government involved in the attacks, then it is colluding with treason. IMVHO!

(How long did the Gwenfeld tower in London burn without collapsing because of the fire?)

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Without a need for demolition teams. I haven't seen PriceRip around much, recently, but I'm sure he can vouch for that.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

@Timmethy2.0

What I find surprising is that, despite proof of numerous False Flag events and other horrors ranging from organized kidnapping and torture of individuals to the use of White Phosphorus on civilian populations, various representatives of polluting industries knowingly for-profit expediently killing people and destroying the environment throughout their history are somehow, by many, assumed - apparently by virtue of having been cheated into/appointed to public office - to be incapable of killing/allowing to be killed a specific group of more people in a spectacular fashion in order to create an excuse to go and kill people in other countries in order to gain more power and money for themselves.

Life on the Earth itself is being comprehensively murdered due to pathological greed and we already know that there is no low which is too low in the compulsive pursuit of never-enough power and money engaged in by a relative few and their lackeys.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

http://www.ae911truth.org/gallery/evidence.html

Evidence

On September 11, 2001, the three worst structural failures in modern history took place when World Trade Center Buildings 1, 2, and 7 suffered complete and rapid destruction.

In the aftermath of the tragedy, most members of the architecture and engineering community, as well as the general public, assumed that the buildings’ destruction had occurred as a result of the airplane impacts and fires. This view was reinforced by subsequent federal investigations, culminating in FEMA’s 2002 Building Performance Study and in the 2005 and 2008 reports by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

Since 9/11, however, independent researchers around the world have assembled a large body of evidence that overwhelmingly refutes the notion that airplane impacts and fires caused the destruction of the Twin Towers and WTC 7. This body of evidence, most of which FEMA and NIST omitted from their reports, instead supports the troubling conclusion that all three skyscrapers were destroyed in a process known as “controlled demolition,” where explosives and/or other devices are used to bring down a building. ...

I know many people don't want to believe that their government would deliberately do this, any more than many people will believe in climate change, but nothing else fits all the myriad facts, including the behaviours exhibited following the incident and the number of those who 'just happened' to be set up for this and have profited directly and/or indirectly from 9/11.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

@Ellen North as for the people who don't want to believe that their government could do something like this against them, all they need to do is look up Operation Northwoods which describes this exact scenario to allow them to blame Cuba for the attacks and therefore justifying the need to attack Cuba.
There have been many false flag operations committed by this country starting with the USS Maine.

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg

Exactly! And it's the fact that the perpetrators have yet to be held accountable which has enabled the continuance and expansion of such shameful and disgusting tactics in order to 'justify' even worse.

About freaking time that the American people broke through the propaganda and began to insist upon 'a country of laws, not men', with independent investigations where actually required, (as opposed to well-publicized witch-hunts as distractions from real abuses and crimes,) publicly-funded politicians and free and fair elections, along with their Constitutionally protected guaranteed, inalienable rights - before the US Constitution is rewritten to exclude them.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Wink's picture

@Ellen North
"The Government" (or Deep State) Had To Know About the Date of The Intended Plane Hijackings and set up the demolition work beforehand. It's the Only Way it could have been pulled off. The BBC report indicates some people knew ahead of time.
One, it could explain why G. Dubya, President Dick F'n Cheney and the rest of the Bush WH ignored FBI memos of an imminent attack (you've covered your ass... ), and,
Two, why it took so long for USAF jets to get off the ground.
I never bought in to the 911 conspiracy b.s. becuz of too many moving parts, but as we've learned how our -ahem- "Government" works over the last year or two, I'm more convinced that 911 was an inside job. And the resulting M.E. "wars" are horse$h!t. Well, I've always thought the "wars" were b.s., but now there's no doubt.

up
0 users have voted.

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Deja's picture

@Wink If I remember correctly, the USAF was conducting drills and when the calls came in pilots questioned whether they were real or part of the drills -- and they were miles and miles away.

Similar "convenient" shit went down in London. Everyone just happened to be busy, elsewhere, conducting drills simulating attacks that were coincidentally actually occurring.

I have never believed the official bullshit story, but the alternative is so truly un-fucking-believable that normal people, like us, question our own sanity for even imagining the unbelievable. Nifty trick that.

up
0 users have voted.

@Deja

Yeah, they think people are stupid and ridicule those who are not. Sorta like kindergarten bullies, only with weapons of mass destruction and something really good to hold over the principal and most of the teaching staff.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

@Wink many people made some type of stock deal on the airline's stocks. They knew that the stock was going to plummet and when it happened, they made tons of money from it.
I can't remember the terminology for this type of action. Is I called a put option?
Plus the guy who owned the towers made billions from his insurance policies.

IIRC, John Ashcroft told certain people to quit flying commercial in June of that year.
Plus people who worked in the towers were told to stay home on 9/11.
There is so much video evidence that shows that this was a false flag event.

BTW, where is the material from the towers? Not one investigation of the building material was examined and had a report written about it.

The other piece of the smoking gun was that the plane's were allowed to fly over the most restricted airspace in the country for over an hour without one military jet scrambled to intercept them.
As deja stated, they were supposedly doing drills that day. Just like during the London attack and the Boston bombings.
There was a mercenary company doing the drills at the same time of the marathon. Seriously, who would be doing a fake bombing drill during that?

From the linked article, there is a link to a different article about John Kerry admitting that they 'pulled' building 7, plus a news reporter heard the order to pull it.

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Deja's picture

@snoopydawg But it's been so long I think it was the owner of the building, and yes, it could have been anyone talking about anything. I also remember allegations of some type of welding done prior, with video or pics (can't remember) of the cuts on the support beams.

Add the London (?) train bombing with the metal at blast area peeled inward from the floor of the car, not outward. That's the one where the "terrorist" had the bomb in a backpack he took or left inside the train.

up
0 users have voted.

@Deja in the comment stream of the linked article. Wow. Up until now I just thought they knew and ignored, but there was indeed work done on buildings 1 and 2, according to that video, and right about where the planes hit too. I didn't look up who did it, but I found it very interesting. And the timing of the thing and interconnections, interesting. Plausible. And yes, Trump's only ripped off the mask now.

""9/11 Conspiracy Solved, Names, Connections, Details" We'll see if this link works.....

up
0 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

snoopydawg's picture

@Deja have been wired for demolition, the steel girders would have to be weakened by explosives.
The 20 floors that were where the girders were was owned by Goldman Sacks.
People remembered that months before the attacks that those offices were being renovated.
Quite the coincidence, don't you think?

Murdering 3,000 Americans is just one part of the plan to get Rumsfeld's new Pearl Harbor.
These people didn't care anymore than they have cared for the millions they murdered in the Middle East.
They have to be sociopaths to be able to live with themselves. There is no other way to think about them.
This includes the best president since FDR and Hillary, the defender of women and children..

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

mimi's picture

@snoopydawg
of the towers, the debris so to speak, was shipped quickly and efficiently to China. If you think I will try to find that "source" for that, you make a mistake.

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

@mimi I looked it up, enlightenment so elusive. Thanks Don for posting this essay, thanks Malcolm Howard for speaking his truth to power. Right on. I remember the WTC from 1988-89, a different world. I think Trump had his name on Tower 1 back then, can't remember exactly. There is something stuck in my lint trap from the first time I saw the base of Tower 1, can't write about it still. Watching them collapse was traumatic, yeah. I always wondered how Manhattan people would find their way around without those things sticking up to find their direction.

Chicago Tribune 2002: Mangled WTC steel bought by China, Company denies souvenir plans

SHANGHAI — As New Yorkers emotionally debate what kind of memorial should honor those killed in the Sept. 11 World Trade Center attack, 50,000 tons of mangled metal from the twin towers have been sold and shipped to China as scrap.

China's largest steel company denied reports that it plans to make souvenirs out of metal from the collapsed buildings. But officials at Shanghai Baosteel here said the company did buy scrap from the wreckage of the terrorist attack.

"Scrap from the World Trade Center is cheap, and the quality is good," said Cao Xianggen, an engineer at Baosteel. "America can't use it all, but China has a huge demand for it."

"what computers do"? Don't say cover up. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

Some 185,101 tons of structural steel have been hauled away from Ground Zero. Most of the steel has been recycled as per the city's decision to swiftly send the wreckage to salvage yards in New Jersey. The city's hasty move has outraged many victims' families who believe the steel should have been examined more thoroughly. Last month, fire experts told Congress that about 80% of the steel was scrapped without being examined because investigators did not have the authority to preserve the wreckage.

The bulk of the steel was apparently shipped to China and India. The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons at a rate of $120 per ton, compared to an average price of $160 paid by local mills in the previous year.

Mayor Bloomberg, a former engineering major, was not concerned about the destruction of the evidence: "If you want to take a look at the construction methods and the design, that's in this day and age what computers do. Just looking at a piece of metal generally doesn't tell you anything."

Bloomberg? Don't say New York dynasty. It does say there "destruction of evidence", those are the words I'd use too. Seemed wrong at the time, pointless except to hide something, a cover up. Last time I checked that was a pretty pretty bad thing, a criminal act. Back then was when I learned the phrase "suspension of disbelief", kinda psychologically screwed like a lot of other people.

peace

up
0 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@eyo
that my son was sent from Montana AFB to NYC to help moving the steel debris for 8 days, because the military had special equipment to do the work. The idea to ship that steel debris to China for souvenir making is ridiculous, imo. I don't think that the guys working on that knew what would happen to the steel. Little soldier people. Ignoramussis.

Other than that I don't have a comment. I am the ignoramus in here. And the one who doesn't want to research that 15 years later. I also rememeber to ask an ignoramus question back in the days on TOP about it and that got me the first "warning" from Meteor Blades back then. Enough for me to shut down my brain on this issue and let it be the American business to think about it.

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

@Ellen North @Ellen North

but nothing else fits all the myriad facts

, because the controlled demolition/false-flag explanation is a rather bad fit to all the other myriad facts we have available to us.

my own readings on this suggest that most of the "myriad facts" asserted by the CD/FF contingent are:
A. Not necessarily true (probably more than half)
or B. Not at all true (another large chunk)
or C. Not inconsistent with Demolition-By-Aircraft explanation

I find that arguing about it is comparable to arguing with someone about climate change: One debunks each successive claim, only to have yet another thrown in one's face; while one's interlocutor remains oblivious to the reality that the "myriad" of facts is slowly disintegrating, and no longer even provides a coherent narrative.

The worst of it is not the WTC debate, however: The worst is the Pentagon. I will say this, straight up and straight out: Anybody who believes that what hit the Pentagon on 9/11 was something other than a Boeing 757 jetliner, operating as American Airlines Flight 77, is thinking with a level of irrationality that meets the definition of delusion.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

TheOtherMaven's picture

@UntimelyRippd @UntimelyRippd
That is, believing that BushCo had their heads wedged so far and so firmly up their asses that they just couldn't even imagine anything could Possibly Go Wrong.

It makes as much, or as little, sense as any of the other theories.

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@UntimelyRippd

much of what you say. But to this,

Anybody who believes that what hit the Pentagon on 9/11 was something other than a Boeing 757 jetliner, operating as American Airlines Flight 77, is thinking with a level of irrationality that meets the definition of delusion.

I would respond that, yes, many people saw an airliner hit the Pentagon, but some people believe it's possible something in addition to the plane, perhaps a missile, also hit the Pentagon. And that speculation comes at least in part from the Exit Hole photographs which look so much like the results of a military shaped charge blast. Also, I think there is speculation that the shaped charge was set within the Pentagon, possibly for the purpose of escape.

I don't have strong feelings about what I've read about this speculation. But I do think it's very possible a heat-seeking missile fired by our defensive aircraft may have reached the plane as it hit the Pentagon.

up
0 users have voted.

@Linda Wood
had been anything other than circles, that would be touted as evidence of nefariosity.

it's kinda like, no matter what is wrong with our economy, a republican will blame it on high taxes. this is because they start with the certainty that taxes are bad for the economy, and then construct a corresponding argument to explain any current economic problems in that light.

god knows what their arguments would look like if there were no taxes for them to blame.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd
why you would respond as you have. But until I read about the shaped charge, a military explosive device that is used to make shaped holes, and until I had seen the photographs and videos of the use of shaped charges, I would have glossed over this as you have. Seeing the exact results of such blasts in military tests and settings, I understand why the rescue and cleanup personnel immediately identified this exit hole as the result of a shaped charge blast or warhead.

With all the respect I have for you, I think what you're objecting to is questioning what happened. In fact there were at least 2 other exit holes at the Pentagon, not circular. I do respect what you are saying, such that questioning what happened takes on a life of its own and goes to everything, to the point where bearings are lost in the process. I agree with you, but I also think there was so much wrong with the original bearings that such dislocation was bound to happen.

up
0 users have voted.

@Linda Wood @Linda Wood
extraordinary explanations for things that aren't extraordinary. what shape would you expect an airplane (or one of its jet engines) to make, smashing into a wall at 2 or 3 hundred miles an hour? there's nothing astonishing about round things in the universe -- for many mathematical reasons, nature has a strong bias towards roundness.

the remarkable thing about a shaped charge is not that it creates a round hole (instead of ... what?), but that it creates a small round hole, by projecting a disproportionate fraction of the explosive force in a particular direction -- normally, in the direction of whatever it is one is targeting. the objective is to avoid dispersing the energy in a spherical blast, wasting much of it. thus, you get a small hole and a lot of damage inside the building, rather than blowing up half the wall (and whatever's in the street) while doing less damage to the inside of the building.

in other words, the it-was-a-missile Pentagon argument is being made exactly in reverse, to create an air of unlikelihood around what is actually the design purpose: the shaped charge enables an exploding bomb to create a damage footprint that looks a lot like the one made by a large cylindrical (or spherical) non-exploding mass hitting a wall at high speed. it would be surprising if the entry and exit holes of the aircraft (and/or its pieces) did not look like they do, and it would be a disappointment to the designers of the shaped charge if their weapon's footprint did not resemble those same entry and exit holes.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@Linda Wood
these guys don't seem to know about them.

what (or how much) came out the other side is not something i've paid much attention to, but whatever did, and whatever external damage it left, would have depended on what the various parts of the plane hit as they were going through the building. in this case, what came out the other side appears to have been one of the wheels, along with parts of the landing gear.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd

I hear you on this about the other exit holes. But the shaped charge blast signature shape of the Exit Hole is what it is. What it implies is up for grabs.

I agree with the scientists who say the nose cone of the plane, the fuel from the plane, and/or the force of the energy from the plane did not make the Exit Hole. But I agree with them because it sounds like common sense to me.

I hope you realize conspiracy theorists like myself have a lifelong relationship with common sense, as I know you do.

up
0 users have voted.

@Timmethy2.0 But, I'm not sure particle physics is applicable here.

up
0 users have voted.

There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.

Being able to freely discuss things like 9-11 without being shouted down or called crazy is freeing!

Thanks for this.

up
0 users have voted.

Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos

What do you know about the source? None of the msm picked it up, but then, then never report anything they don't want us to know.

up
0 users have voted.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

@dkmich we don't know much about the source and it might just be wishful thinking that this kind of reveal could happen.

For me though, it still doesn't change the fact that the official story just never added up.

Having this be true would just be icing on my cake. Smile

up
0 users have voted.

Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos

snoopydawg's picture

@dkmich that many in the CIA did.

9/11 Attacks: Criminal Foreknowledge and Insider Trading lead directly to the CIA’s Highest Ranks

Plus John Kerry is on record stating that building 7 was purposefully demolished. The only way that could have happened is if the building was rigged before hand.

John Kerry Admits WTC 7 Was Brought Down By Controlled Demolition

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Wink's picture

@snoopydawg
be rigged Before 9/11. No Way they rigged it that day. The BBC obviously knew it was coming down - they reported it down 20 mins. before it imploded. ooops. There was no "crime" in bringing down a building that likely was going to collapse anyway. The "crime" was the ability to bring it down so quickly - it takes a bunch of time to rig a building in the best of conditions - and reporting it down before it was down by the BBC. That was a big ooops. WTC 7 sells the "Inside Job" for me. Wasn't there a YouTube video by that name? If WTC 7 was rigged Before 9/11 - and it obviously was - the only reason would be a "just in case" measure. In case it was necessary. Break Glass in case of emergency.
I find it amazing that "the government" would deliberatly kill nearly 3,000 people - some among the financial sector's best and brightest - so that "they" (the gov't) could secure oil prices in the M.E.

up
0 users have voted.

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

@Wink It's the US dollar, American control of the entire world, punishing relentlessly anyone who dares challenge it. And with a mostly inattentive audience that simply doesn't have time, or make time, to watch closely, it's easier for them. Trump's daily outrage serves as distraction, as well as endless Russia, Russia, Russia and the latest outbreak of war.

They want complete control. They want an American Century, defined by corporate capitalism/totalitarianism. And they don't care who has to die to get there. Even that guy in the article said when a "patriot" is called they do their duty. And they've been trained so well to do it. Hell, even 9/11 was mere distraction, useful indeed, but only a way to get our foot in the door all over the world. And the abomination it's done at home just makes it so that even when people wake up, they may not have enough basic resources to do one thing about it. When you're starving you really can't do much protesting, especially against those trained to kill first and don't worry about consequences. We matter no more to them than those poor people in the ME. Full cynicism on display, but I put nothing past them anymore.

up
0 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

snoopydawg's picture

@lizzyh7
From the comments on this video

This is absolutely nauseating, that a grandfather was in with the Nazis, the father outlined the takeover, and the son was in office when the great ploy to steal our liberties was enacted, on the same damn day ten years later, and nobody cares.

George is a member of the Council for Foreign Relations which is full of seedy characters.
The new world order and agenda 21 is another conspiracy theory that has not been proven or unproven.
This is just one of many websites that address this.
As we know, "just because we are paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get us."

Agenda 21: The UN, Sustainability and Right-Wing Conspiracy Theory

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg If you read Family of Secrets by Russ Baker, you will see that Poppy Bush had lots of secrets. Do you believe that when he was appointed head of the CIA, no one published the fact that he had been a CIA agent since the 1950"s? The book was intended to be a discussion of the Bush Family dynasty and turned into something else when Russ Baker started digging. I highly recommend reading it.

up
0 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

snoopydawg's picture

@lizzyh7
I haven't figured how to post more than one video at a time.
Help please Smile

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@lizzyh7

I have used the same words.

it just gets worse.

up
0 users have voted.

@Wink
of conspiracy theorists I feel like I'm off on my own far left edge, but early on, the question was asked: why, if WTC buildings were pre-set to be brought down, why? Why not let them be partially ruined, even if you had knowledge that they were going to be attacked? Why bring them down?

I think that was always a good question. Speculation included destruction of evidence. Evidence of what, though?

The one speculation that seemed logical to me was that the Port Authority, or whoever owned the WTC, was going to eventually have to demolish those gigantic buildings and that they were too big to do so without contaminating Manhattan with toxic waste, asbestos et al. So, knowing the Trade Center was a terrorist target, the new lease holder set the buildings with explosives in order to destroy them totally, unlike the damage that was done in the 1993 attack, which was hideously expensive to repair, in the event there was a terrorist attack.

Insurance payout came to $7 billion, which seems like chump change now in the age of ISIS, but in those days that was a lot of money.

up
0 users have voted.

@Linda Wood There are corporations too large to fail, and buildings too large to demolish. And yet...

up
0 users have voted.

Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long

@Wink
of information in which somehow somebody at the BBC "knew" that WTC 7 was marked for demolition in a False Flag operation, and transmitted the consequence of that knowledge down or across through the BBC's news operation until it ended up being reported prematurely.

This is a perfect example of the bizarre nature of this sort of reasoning. We are given two propositions:
A. The conspirators, for purposes unknown to us, included somebody at the BBC within the circle of those who were informed about the operation and its planned outcome; and at some point during the day that person, for purposes also unknown to us, pushed the fact of WTC 7's collapse into the BBC's newstream before it had actually happened, resulting in it being reported 20 minutes in advance.
vs.
B. Somebody at the BBC misinterpreted some information that had come in from Ground Zero concerning the status of WTC 7, resulting in its collapse being reported 20 minutes before it actually happened.

Who on earth, given these two propositions, would select A, which makes no sense even under the CD/FF hypothesis? Scenario A depends entirely on two assertions that are each by themselves more improbable than Scenario B.
1. Somebody at the BBC was in on the False Flag, including the particular detail that WTC 7 was slated for destruction.
2. That person fed the report of WTC 7's collapse into the news team's reporting, rather than leaving it to the news team simply report it when it actually happened.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

Thanks! I was hoping that someone would post something on the stock 'puts' - there were so very many red flags up regarding 9/11 and I really don't feel up to re-searching all this stuff again, much of which I only vaguely remember, at least at the moment.

Chemical-sensitive and in my 3rd month of petro-chemical-saturated home renovation in the house to be sold, and apparently there will be painting at the new place, after we move in... gah!

Edit: thought I'd vary things by missing a letter...

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

was three controlled demolitions. Clear as day, no doubt about that. Later it was explained to me, in great detail and by the highest of authorities, that these were not controlled demolitions. Even though they looked like, and acted like controlled demolitions, they were actually "pancake-like" collapses. It was of course not possible to know exactly what a pancake-type collapse might look like, because none had ever occurred before. This was the first one ever, in the entire history of steel frame high-rise buildings. Wow, isn't that something! But as they say, there's a first time for everything.

However, for some reason those damn videos still didn't look anything like pancakes collapsing to me. They still looked exactly like controlled demolitions. Ain't it funny how sometimes you can't even believe your own eyes? Then finally when the 9/11 Commission report came out, they said it was a pancaking event for sure, so that was that. Case closed, time to move on, please pass the syrup.

Well, America most certainly did move on, though perhaps not in the most advantageous of directions.

up
0 users have voted.

native

@native and a plane hit the Pentagon but they can't show us any video except for a few frames.

Hmm. But they collected all those tapes and can't release any of them even now? We were able to see the video of a horrendous car crash in my neighborhood that killed two people, about a day later. Oh but the Pentagon is secure space and releasing any of that video would be a threat to national security!

Go back to sleep. Sleep!

up
0 users have voted.

Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos

@Dark UltraValia

the "national security" designation gets used as an all-purpose CYA license for MIC-connected malefactors. A lot of very bad ju-ju can be, and has been hidden behind that cloak. But the fact that unknown "someones" were able to successfully perpetrate a hoax on the scale of the 9/11 operation is truly astounding. Scary effective, in fact.

up
0 users have voted.

native

mimi's picture

@native
hmm, Juju
If you give your mind to Juju you have lost the game. You die. I have it from a good source. Just saying.

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

@native

Because a fire up near the top of extremely tall buildings specifically built to withstand the impact of any potential airplane strike invariably causes much of the material in lower stories to predominately turn to powdered dust in virtually instant succession as each successive floor evenly collapses.

Fire's just like that. They don't even have to bother with controlled demo in skyscrapers anymore; just dump in some airplane fuel on one of the upper floors and Bob's your uncle - right in their own foot-prints every time!

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

don mikulecky's picture

@Ellen North sources please

up
0 users have voted.

An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.

Deja's picture

@don mikulecky But maybe I'm wrong.

up
0 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@Deja
whatever this is ...
Walking_Dead_590.jpg

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

@mimi

I'd say that's hideous animal torture I can't bear to look at.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

mimi's picture

@Ellen North
I don't remember where I saw this image. Had something to do with the "Walking Dead". And I hate that series and never watched it aside from three minutes when I first was pointed to it on TOP.. Was even amazed that so many people apparently like it. Beyond my comprehension.

I have made somewhat critical comments about your comments, because I don't understand them. If I don't understand a thing, I get cranky.

If I have unreasonably reacted to your comments, I apologize. But for heaven's sake. I don't understand this stuff. And the result of reading something by someone should be that one understands something out of it.

Peace.

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

@don mikulecky

OK, that was rather obvious sarcasm, but much of what happened on 9/11 has apparently never happened before or (so far) since.

I know nothing about the technical aspects myself, obviously, although looking at the footage of the actual collapses below the area of the building impacts/fires raises questions even in the utter ignoramus. Especially when it turns out that much of what appeared to be smoke was actually giant rolling clouds of dust which coated a large area, (with rather a lot of paper seen scattered in the streets in many videos,) with far less large debris than might have been expected to remain within such large, furnished buildings, which appeared to disintegrate on the way down, generally contents and all.

I haven't looked at much of the 9/11 footage or information for some time, but as far as I can tell by a rapid skim, this appears to be a good breakdown, at least to this particular ignoramus.

(There's been a focus placed on Building 7, because that was not even hit by an airplane, but the same pattern shows throughout the affected buildings.)

All I can say is that what I read/saw at the time made sense only when viewed in the light of controlled demolition, as presented by numerous experts - and that necessary evidence required for a proper investigation was very promptly cleared away and even offshored, making any such standard, properly conducted investigation as would normally have been conducted, according to various experts, impossible. And much surrounding the event fit in only with an inside job, or at least one for which a number of beneficiaries were prepared.

...

http://www1.ae911truth.org/news-section/41-articles/872-freefall-and-bui...

Freefall and Building 7 on 9/11
Written by David Chandler
Wednesday, 16 April 2014 22:15

...
David Chandler received a BS degree in a hybrid physics and engineering program at Harvey Mudd College, Claremont CA and a MS degree in mathematics from Cal Poly University, Pomona CA. He has taught physics, mathematics, and astronomy since 1972 at both the high school and college levels. He is active with the video and writing teams of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. His 9/11- related videos are featured on AE911Truth.org and YouTube.com/user/ae911truth. His own 9/11- related web site is 911SpeakOut.org.

Tons of footage on the net, all showing the same thing. We do not see flames blazing down the building; we see the building disintegrate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1We9baDyeE

9/11 - "footage" of plane crash & both collapses

Anyone remember reading about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8QCQudNEtY

pulverised & vaporized bodies 911
Damian Murray

Published on 22 Sep 2014

For 41% of people who died at the world trade center, there was not even a fragment left of them large enough to recover DNA from. Extreme pulverisation & vaporisation of people. More than 700 tiny bone fragments found on top of the Deutsche bank

Has this sort of thing happened in other high-rise blazes? If so, how far were the tiny bone fragments scattered?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1zED8dy63w

9/11 Firefighters Reveal Bombs Destroyed WTC lobby

Published on 22 Oct 2010

Newly obtained video that was reluctantly released by NIST after a lawsuit by the International Center for 9/11 Studies shows two firefighters on 9/11 discussing how secondary explosions occurred immediately before the collapse of the twin towers, providing damning new evidence that explosive devices were used to bring down the buildings. Firemen discuss how bombs were going off in the lobby of WTC1 as they were staging to move up the building. They explain how the building had already been hit by the plane and fires were already burning. After two explosions in the lobby, a third went off and the whole lobby collapsed. I'm sorry 9/11 truth deniers, you now have another smoking gun that you can't deny!

Then there's this, shown in numerous videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVE5VyR1M3A

911- Pre-collapse Explosions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yli-if4F0DY

WTC Demolition Flashes (ON VIDEO)

Published on 10 Mar 2012

Here are some demolition/explosives charges caught on video, very likely pre-weakening charges as seen in the video "bombs, not jet fuel, once and for all".

Various aspects are videoed/discussed all over the internet, what I've seen being typically in line with what the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth have presented. The mere presence of multiple sources/repeats obviously does not make anything true, but I personally prefer to go with whatever explains all known facts over 'official' stories which don't, from known prevaricators gaining money, power and an excuse to profitably kill people elsewhere by their story being accepted.

This recent blaze was mentioned upthread, an inferno which no-one on the top floors could have survived, yet the far more poorly-built building with highly flammable cladding apparently failed to disintegrate into its own footprint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWwNvdTqb68

Video of Grenfell Tower - People Dropping Down Improvised Ropes - Many Trapped Inside

It's shown burning like a torch - couldn't watch for more than a few minutes and frankly have often not been doing more than minimal viewing of what comes up on a fast search and seems to cover various points (not dealing well with these sorts of horrors,) but the fact that the Grenfell Towers, (evidently built and maintained with a notable lack of regard for safety,) and 9/11 buildings are not comparable might make the point even better than the usual examples.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606718/First-pictures-inside-st...

INSIDE the towering inferno: First video reveals horror faced by firefighters as they are confronted with flooding and mangled furniture as terrified residents scramble for their lives

The photographs show the true horror that would have been faced by residents
Video has emerged showing a local man walking through the wreckage caused
Dozens, possibly hundreds, feared dead after devastating blaze ravaged flats
Crew combing the building trying to piece together events and find residents

By Gareth Davies For Mailonline

Published: 10:45 BST, 15 June 2017 | Updated: 22:04 BST, 15 June 2017

Stairwell footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZhCE51hrfc

vi

deo inside Grenfell Tower shows the charred aftermath of deadly blaze

The aftermath was not largely consisting of small particles.

If 9/11 wasn't, at the least, officially known about with various personal beneficial results cold-bloodedly planned for by a number of people, including top government officials in the Bush Administration, there are so many otherwise inexplicable oddities involved in 9/11...

Hope this makes sense, lol, not having a good day and find it really hard going though this stuff again.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North
They sure started the New American Century off with a bang, didn't they.

up
0 users have voted.

native

@native

And apparently want to end it with multiple nuclear blasts.

Sounds like regime change time for America - why not try democracy there?

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@native

up
0 users have voted.

@native
controlled demolitions.

And as far as I know, you are not
A. smarter than me
B. more knowledgeable about Newtonian mechanics
C. more versed in the engineering particulars of modern architecture
D. more experienced than me (which is to say, completely inexperienced) in the forensic analysis of the collapse of anything at all, or particularly, of video of collapsing concrete structures.

So there we have it. Two people watch the same videos, and have starkly discordant perceptions of what they have just seen. I can think of no reason to privilege your interpretation over mine, so I won't, leaving us at an epistemological impasse.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd
A,B,C, nor D, and you probably have a much firmer scientific grounding than I do. So I respect and appreciate your input.

Regarding my "free-fall" assertion, it wasn't intended to be mathematically accurate, but only a kind of shorthand for the fact that the velocity of descent was relatively close to that of a free-falling object. Certainly the velocity was many times faster than what a falling mass with most of an entire building in its path would have been. Even a very large falling mass would have been significantly slowed, blocked, deflected, or even stopped before it hit the ground, had the obstructions in its path not been eliminated.

up
0 users have voted.

native

@native
you're just saying this:

Certainly the velocity was many times faster than what a falling mass with most of an entire building in its path would have been. Even a very large falling mass would have been significantly slowed, blocked, deflected, or even stopped before it hit the ground, had the obstructions in its path not been eliminated.

And you have no evidence that it's true, and I flatly disagree. Once a floor collapses and the 20 floors above it start to fall, there's certainly no stopping it, and probably not really much slowing it down. The momentum involved is extraordinary

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

ggersh's picture

why is everything not mainstream a ("conspiracy" theory)?

The only conspiracy I know of is that amerika is considered
a democracy.

up
0 users have voted.

“Those who choose the lesser evil forget very quickly that they chose evil.”
— Hannah Arendt

@ggersh

up
0 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

@ggersh

Having theories about the various conspiracies of TPTB makes them nervous and spoils their fun, which is A Very Bad Thing. Can't have The People figuring out what they're up to, or there'd be a revolution - and lots of trials in international, independent courts for the perps.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North

something to dream on.

where have you gone Maximum John?
the nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

up
0 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg

Yup, he made a bundle in insurance from 9/11, didn't he? Even though I believe he only held the lease on the building? and was very heavily insured.

And two videos showed following your Silverstein video, one of which was this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0eC3uns3pA

9/11 Video Clips Dan Rather Would Rather Not Show You

It's not like this was well-hidden, just that repeated denials and kindergarten-spite Monsanto/Bivings-style attacks somehow work on people, terrified of being called names by such as these...

Edit to block-quote title. And re-edited after realizing that I'd cleverly used bold instead, lol.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

mimi's picture

wait til he is on his death bed to make such revelations? Couldn't he have hurried up a little bit and tell us right after his retirement, if not before?

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

@mimi
who reveal things about their work don't tend to live long after revealing their secrets. Maybe he just wanted to live out the rest of his life.

up
0 users have voted.

@Linda Wood Maybe at this point he's OK even with them killing him, he's lived what he can. Who knows but I think you're right.

up
0 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

mimi's picture

@Linda Wood
to live out the rest of their lives and didn't have the freedom to do so.

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

snoopydawg's picture

@mimi the guy said this:

He claims he had no problem going through with the deception at the time, because “when you are a patriot, you don’t question the motivation of the CIA or the White House. You assume the bigger purpose is for a greater good. They pick good, loyal people like me, and it breaks my heart to hear the shit talk.”

This isn't patriotism, it's cold blooded murder. I don't know what he means by "shit talk .
How he thought that killing not just the 3,000 people who died in the towers, but the many rescue workers who dug through the remains of the buildings. They were told by Bush's health secretary that the air was not a danger to them. Imagine their surprise when they started getting sick because of the air was toxic. They fought for years to get congress to authorize money for their medical treatment. One would think that this legislation would be a no brainer for congress to allocate, but they were treated just like the veterans who got sick with Gulf syndrome which was tied to their vaccines they received before being deployed to Kuwait to fight against Saddam's military.
Congress has no problem sending the troops into harm's way, but they balk at providing money for their injuries.
The republicans mostly vote against every veterans bills, including John McCain.

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

'My country, right or wrong' ought to mean that when it's doing wrong, you work to make it do the right thing, because you care about it and want to be proud of it, not that you will enact or accept wrongs merely because your current government is pathological and you will blindly follow whatever leader shows up. That isn't patriotism at all, at least not in my books. That's ignorant, mindless expediency, going with the flush, so to speak.

Edit: and I would hope that nobody thinks my use of 'you' is intended to indicate anyone here, but my evident lack of clarity appears to have caused a bit of confusion hither and yon and so thought that I'd better make sure that doesn't happen here.

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

snoopydawg's picture

@Ellen North
following orders that are illegal does not excuse people from their actions.
I don't know what is involved when people join the CIA or any other government agencies, but I would assume that they swear an oath to defend this country from enemies foreign and domestic.
I do know that the president and congress members do swear this oath and one would assume that creating an event that takes people's lives is definitely against that oath.
We know that the joint chiefs of staff had planned to create a false flag event in order to have a reason to attack Cuba. This was buried for decades before it was declassified.

The amount of evidence on the internet shows that this was a false flag event that initially cost 3,000+ lives and led to hundreds of millions of lives lost in the Middle East because of this heinous crime.

I recently read Joe's diary on ToP about Obama's unconstitutional use of drones in countries that had nothing to do with the attack by so called terrorists. I was amazed to see how many people were okay with the use of them.
If this action was bad when Bush did it, then it's just as bad when Obama did too.

Now that Trump is the president, people seem to have amnesia for what happened during the last 8 years.
Every time I read about something that happened in the Middle East, I keep forgetting that Obama isn't president. But everything that happens over there is because of Obama's actions. He entered office with two wars going on and left with the same damned war in Afghanistan, but Libya is in ruins, we are fighting in Syria, Iraq (again) helping Saudi Arabia commit war crimes and crimes against humanity, and gawd knows how many other countries. At least 134 in Africa alone according to Nick Turse and using drones in at least 7-8 countries.

(yes I know how you meant "we".)
Your first sigline is great. This says a lot.

up
0 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

mimi's picture

@snoopydawg
and now where do we go from here?

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

mimi's picture

@native @Ellen North
this one was clear. Thanks for it.
Please never assume that your readers understand what is snark and what is not. And I think the issue is too serious to be conversed about in "snarkish-lish". At least some have difficulties with that language.

up
0 users have voted.

mimi

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Ellen North
Stephen Decatur is generally credited with the terse "My country, right or wrong" statement - although what he actually said was a little different: "Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong."

Sen. Carl Schurz, a couple of generations later, elaborated on the statement: "My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."

up
0 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@snoopydawg

sad to say it.

This isn't patriotism, it's cold blooded murder.

up
0 users have voted.

But I read a long article by Richard Muller, a physicist at UC Berkeley, that explained that the amount of energy in 2 fully fueled jumbo jets traveling at hundreds of miles an hour, approaches the energy of the A-bomb at Hiroshima, where a lot of buildings collapsed on their own. A lot of energy is needed to transport hundreds of people across the country in 6 hours. The melting point of steel is high, but it is weakened significantly at high temperatures. Once the top level started weakening the lower levels gave way, giving the pancaking, demolition like effect. The shock waves brought down building 7. Of course, the hijackers could have been allowed to carry out their "Pearl Harbor like attack".

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

@Timmethy2.0
this makes sense to you?

2 fully fueled jumbo jets traveling at hundreds of miles an hour, approaches the energy of the A-bomb at Hiroshima

Are you saying the genius of all the people who worked for years on the Atomic bomb, with all the costs and secrecy we expended on the production of atomic weapons, could have been accomplished simply by flying fuel-loaded planes into Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Or are you saying the energy of fuel-loaded planes approaches the energy of an atomic bomb in the sense that it is somewhere on a spectrum that goes from small to large and therefore it approaches the large. What are you saying?

I have never been convinced about whether the pancake theory or the demolition theory makes more sense. The pulverization of concrete makes me side with the likelihood that the North and South Towers were blown up. Unlike WTC7, the larger towers do not look like controlled demolition, they look like they were destroyed by explosives.

up
0 users have voted.

@Linda Wood @Linda Wood

But if I want knowledge about the plausibility of the buildings collapsing from the impact of the airplanes alone, I think I will give more regard to people who make money by studying and teaching physics over people who make money from blogs and books that are intended to rile people up.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

@Timmethy2.0 Rile people up, or attempt to find the truth?
I think "riling up" is the natural consequence of getting at the horrible truth.
What I know about physics would not fill up a thimble, and I have a deep respect for experts in that field.
That said, in my life, scientists hired by the tobacco companies determined studies show tobacco promotes good health. Oil companies have hired scientists to very successfully debunk fossil fuel as a cause of climate change. Roundup is safe. Just ask the hired experts.
There is way more money to be made from hiding the truth than exposing it.

up
0 users have voted.

@on the cusp

That said, in my life, scientists hired by the tobacco companies determined studies show tobacco promotes good health. Oil companies have hired scientists to very successfully debunk fossil fuel as a cause of climate change.

They don't have respect for science and they've ruined their reputation because of it. They can never get a job at a major research institution because they've shown that they don't respect the scientific method.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

@Timmethy2.0

to peer pressure, group-think, and confirmation bias as any other profession. Particularly so, when matters of great political import are under consideration.

up
0 users have voted.

native

@native @native @native

They have to make experiments that can be duplicated at any time. They have to subject all their research to peer review before it can be published and they have to acknowledge when the evidence proves them wrong. If they are shown to have faked data then their careers suffer hugely...unless they're working for oil or tobacco companies. In reality, I don't know crap, and I'm desperate for some truth in the wider world outside my friends and family. I suppose scientists aren't super people, but I think on the whole, they have more integrity than people in many other professions. In a lot of professions it is necessary to sell out in order to succeed.

up
0 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

@Timmethy2.0
look at the opinions of physicists, engineers, architects and forensic scientists, so I am in agreement with you on that. But I also know the scientists who write about the collapse of the towers disagree about it. So where does that leave us? Here are some who make a case for the use of explosives:

http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/about.html

Scientists for 9/11 Truth
Investigating the Events of September 11, 2001 Using the Scientific Method

About Us

Scientists for 9/11 Truth is a group of scientific professionals who are calling for new, independent, and scientific investigations of the events of September 11, 2001.

Organizing Committee:

Mark Basile, BS Chemical Engineering, Worcester Polytechnic

David S. Chandler, MS Mathematics, California Polytechnic University

Steven E. Jones, PhD Physics, Vanderbilt University

Coordinator:

John D. Wyndham, PhD Physics, Cambridge University

up
0 users have voted.

@Timmethy2.0

throughout either building. The lower 75% of both WTC1 and WTC2 were fully intact, neither structurally weakened, nor even much affected by the fires above them. Even assuming that the upper 25% did fall directly on top of the lower 75% of these two buildings, (a questionable assumption) this would not have resulted in the nearly free-fall speed of the collapses that occurred. Nor would it have caused the lower floors to utterly disintegrate as they did, into piles of pulverized rubble.

This is not rocket science, in spite of the best efforts of various NIST and Livermore Lab authorities to make it seem very complicated. It is simply a case of one massive structure (intact but damaged) falling on top of another massive structure (intact and not damaged) that is three times as large. After which, the forces of gravity and inertia, and those forces only would be operative. Unless of course, something cleared away all resistance from below the falling mass -- which is clearly and obviously what happened. Take away all the "scientific" gobbledy-gook, and we are left with a single, undeniable fact: There was no resistance.

The primary, and perhaps the only relevant fact we need to explain the fee-fall collapse that we all witnessed, is that somehow, the falling upper 25% of the buildings met with no resistance at all, on its way to the ground. Steel frame skyscrapers simply do not, and cannot possibly collapse into their own footprints, under the forces of gravity and inertia alone.

up
0 users have voted.

native

@native @native
Anybody with a stop-watch can view the videos and confirm this.

Second, this assertion:

Even assuming that the upper 25% did fall directly on top of the lower 75% of these two buildings, (a questionable assumption) this would not have resulted in the nearly free-fall speed of the collapses that occurred.

(even allowing for deletion of the modifier "nearly free-fall") requires support that is not forthcoming. A while back I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations that were not inconsistent with what we observe in the videos.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Deja's picture

@UntimelyRippd I'm curious to know if you believe that the world has never, in history, seen a double pancake collapse of two buildings specifically designed to sustain airplane crashes.

Maybe it's just American Exceptionalism?

I'm no physicist, but my layman brain thinks that the logical reaction of at least one of the buildings (the one hit farther down) would have been for the top floors to topple off and fall onto surrounding structures.

My layman brain cannot accept what I saw, not just once, but twice that horrible day - double pancake. And, my layman brain thought it reminded me of a video from a Vegas controlled demolition. They weren't like giant trees toppled over due to high winds at their tops. That would've been more believable and would've completely destroyed far more surrounding structures, killing many, many more people. This unprecedented double pancake collapse is simply unbelievable.

up
0 users have voted.

@Deja

but otherwise... spot on.

up
0 users have voted.

native

@Deja

I'm curious to know if you believe that the world has never, in history, seen a double pancake collapse of two buildings specifically designed to sustain airplane crashes.

A. Never before in history (or since) has a fully-fueled large passenger jet flown into a skyscraper. To my knowledge, never before has an out-of-control fire burned for hours on any floor of any skyscraper. It's hardly surprising that the result was also something that has never before happened. Since no floor has ever collapsed in any skyscraper for any reason at all, the fact that we've never seen a comparable pancake collapse is inevitable.

B. WTF does it even mean to say that the towers were "specifically built to sustain airplane crashes"? First, what is the basis for this claim, and second, what was the actual design specification given to the engineers and architects? Do you imagine an engineer considering some such event could possibly have designed any tower to withstand what actually happened -- a large passenger aircraft, fully-fueled, hitting the tower, not by accident, but with engines roaring at full throttle? How exactly do you think an engineer would approach such a design assignment? What do you think can actually be done to make a building impervious to such a physical insult? What magical materials and mechanical principles would have been applied to the problem?
The most remarkable thing to me about the entire event is that the buildings stayed up as long as they did, before the structural steel on the burning floors was sufficiently weakened by the high temperatures that it could no longer hold up the mass of the floors above it. The subsequent pancake collapse is exactly what I would expect once any floor with more than 5 or 10 stories above it gave way. Every argument that something else should have happened runs up against one very particular objection, which is that the same argument holds equally unless every single floor was dynamited, which might be conceivable but isn't a very common claim.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd
as you mention, are essentially what the dying whistleblower, the subject of this essay, describes. He used military grade nanothermite to bring down WTC7 because fire alone would not destroy structural steel. The temperatures of jet fuel and burning office materials would not have been sufficient to destroy the structural integrity of the WTC steel, according to some scientists, and the finding of such explosive residues at the site is what started the entire Scientists for Truth movement.

I am unconvinced either way. What I'm trying to convince you of is that speculating about such things is not pointless and not based on magical thinking.

up
0 users have voted.

@Linda Wood
that could somehow survive what happened to those buildings.

yeah, there are some scientists who insist that the fires weren't hot enough to weaken the steel -- and there are dozens of others who insist to the contrary, as well as firefighting professionals who assert that they have seen twisted, deformed steel in the ruins of other buildings whose fires did not burn any hotter than the WTC fires.

the NIST analysis of WTC7 is that
A. the building had far more structural damage than was at first realized
B. the building had design elements that created specific critical stress points where, once other parts of the system had failed, the materials in place would be overloaded.
C. A and B combined such that, after burning hot and out of control for several hours, some of those stress points reached their overload thresholds and a cascade of failures ensued.

Again, there is nothing in this explanation that is extraordinary or unusual -- it's a quite straightforward description of the failure of a complex system subjected to a set of stresses for which it could never have been designed. On the other hand, every explanation involving deliberate demolition of WTC7 rests on a series of strange improbabilities relating to the motivations and purposes of whomever is imagined to have planned and executed that demolition.

So, given the choice between:
A. An explanation that makes perfect sense.
and
B. An explanation that requires almost arbitrary speculation about who did what and why
I'm going to choose A.

up
0 users have voted.

The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Wink's picture

@native
on 75% - it's 25% falling on 1% - one floor.
But, yeah, I agree that it's highly scientifically unlikely that the builing comes down at free fall speed. That 75% or 65% or 55% eventually slows down the collapse. Somewhere at 35% still standing, or so, one would think those collapsed floors above would simply topple over the edge, stopped by the structurally sound 35% of the building unaffected by the "plane crash."

up
0 users have voted.

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
(which is to say roughly 38 floors) still standing. I see almost nothing still standing, aside from the ruined remnants of a few exterior walls.


up
0 users have voted.

native

Pages