Gender-speak in German - Open Thread
In German, every singular noun has a grammatical gender: masculine, feminine, or neuter. Children (as well as grownups learning German as a second language) are expected to memorize which is what as soon as they begin learning to read and write. In the German version of Sesame Street, the theme song goes:
Der, die, das
Wer, wie, was
Weshalb, wieso, warum
Wer nicht fragt bleibt dumm“The” [masculine], “the” [feminine], “the” [neuter]
Who, how, what
Wherefore, how come, why
Those who don’t ask stay dumb
For centuries, the convention was that, in German when discussing the general case, masculine nouns and pronouns could refer to a person of either sex. For example, the masculine form Lehrer could be understood to refer to “teachers” generically. The feminine form Lehrerin was only to be used when specifically referring to a female teacher or a group of teachers, all of whom are known to be women.
As feminist ideas became mainstream, this grammatical convention was deemed not good enough. Many institutions’ style guides therefore adopted the rule that in the general case, language should refer to both sexes explicitly (e.g. Lehrer und Lehrerinnen).
Feeling this was too long-winded, some came up with a typographic innovation, the gender-inclusive Binnen-I or medial capital I: LehrerInnen — a form pioneered and promoted by the Green-left-ish taz.de daily newspaper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binnen-I
More recently, in Western societies, the view that sex and gender are two different things has also entered the mainstream. Because traditional German has only the one word Geschlecht to mean both “sex” and (grammatical) “gender”, an Anglicism has come into vogue: gendern as a verb meaning “to use gender-inclusive language.”
The latest typographic wrinkle involves accommodating — and, controversially, placing front-and-center — the idea that there are more than two genders. In this form, the non-binary possibilities are symbolized by an interposed asterisk, underscore, or colon between the masculine word stem and feminine suffix: Lehrer*innen or Lehrer_innen or Lehrer:innen.
Articles in current issues of the taz.de newspaper can be seen employing all three variants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_star
Unsurprisingly, as well as enthusiasm, this effort to evolve ever-more progressive and inclusive typographic forms is also (cough) engendering a backlash. Some local and state governments are demonstratively experimenting with requiring it, while others, equally demonstratively, are barring it from, for example, being taught in state-run schools.
The question, to gendern or not to gendern, is now part of the German culture wars. No telling yet how things will all shake out.
What’s on your mind today?
Comments
Well that makes learning German more difficult.
When I was much younger, I studied with a small group for two years daily, Deutsch für Ausländer (German as a second language). No English was permitted. Afterwards, eight of us went to Deutsche Sommerschule am Pazifik full immersion with a signed contract.
German Summer School at Lewis and Clark College This school was started by H. F. Peters a scholar of unique German women. An example: Lou Andreas Salome: Das Leben einer außergewöhnlichen Frau. I have found this book in Paris in French and English: 'Ma Femme, Ma Sœur'.
Our Deutsche Lehrer was a Fulbright scholar, somehow a cousin to Marie Osmond, teacher and skier in Austria. He was pioneering the all-Deutsch language program on our class.
We were taught to learn nouns with Der, Die or Das as part of the word rather than something different. It worked very well.
My great regret is not getting to use what I learned. I did have friends who were Latvian and spoke German very well. She was my hiking, skiing and mushroom hunting buddy. So we practiced my German.
When I graduated from Deutsche Sommerschule am Pazifik, we had a night at their house I will never forget: Kurt Weil on vinyl records with Lotte Lenya, 'Steppenwolfe', and so much more in total Deutsch. I thought I had died and gone to heaven.
Now you say it's tied up in knots. I still have some hope I will spend some time in Deutschland and revive some of my learning.
You have sparked many memories. Thank you.
ETA:
This is a photo and journal of the 2019 class. It looks much like the program I was in.
https://www.pdx.edu/world-languages/sites/g/files/znldhr2816/files/2020-...
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.
Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.
How interesting! So few high schools teach German nowadays.
German and Latin have been “out” for decades now. Public instruction seems to focus mostly on Spanish and French.
Spanish also suffers gendered words...
...hence the term Latinx, rather than Latino or Latina. Every Hispanic person I know hates that expression or term and does not use it.
Political correctness is usually taken too far.
English has plenty of issues, and I pity any non native English speaker who is trying to learn this language with its many exceptions to every rule of grammar and spelling.
Thanks for the OT and grammar lesson!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Actually English is the oddball
Not only Spanish and German but (AFAIK) French, Italian, Dutch, Swedish,Norwegian, Danish.
Don't English speakers realize that LatinX is inherently racist by promoting Anglophone superiority? "Those poor dumb beaners, their crude language needs to be updated to conform with English."
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
It's actually worse than that. "Mexican(s)", is
a troublesome word, technically a nationality. So then Chileans, Brazilians, etc., but aren't they all "Spanish" - well, no, but all the same that leads to "Hispanics" which is troublesome as well, Chicano/a, Latino/a, all also troublesome. But, being unable to deal with individuals as such, we must have a generic term for "those people" and we keep trying and failing precisely because they aren't "those people" any more than the Welsh are "anglo-saxon". Blame part of it on forms if you wish (census, etc), abetted by ignorance and prejudice, especially on the part of INS personnel, and some smug sense of superiority "whaddaya mean Han, ain'tcha Chinee?". All that goes in the hopper first, for decades and even centuries and then drop a layer of "woke" on top, and all that comes out is condescension to the 12th power or so.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Guten morgen, lot. Gracias. That was interesting
and expands on some things I was already picking up on. A few years back we took a tour from Paris to Prague; Paris to Lux City, then to the Moselle where we caught a river boat and did Moselle - Rhine - Main via boat, with many stops, then Bamberg to Nuremberg to Prague. Guide and cultural wallah on the boat, Frau somebody or another dropped personal comment about being single. Recalling some of my Deutsch from Hochschule I asked why she didn't use Fräulein and she said that was no longer used and that such differentiation was not done anymore. Naturally I asked about Mädchen and she said that was definitely gone, which is probably all for the better, but where does that leave classics like Der Tod und das Mädchen?
(Having learned my German in high school, I was somewhat intrigued way back then by the fact that Fräulein und Mädchen were neuter, which seemed, at the time, to be somewhat insulting. Kind of glad that they're gone, but will mung up a lot of literature.)
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Huh? Mädchen is gone? Since when?
-
Fräuleins don't exist anymore, as not being a married woman doesn't interest anyone. These days marriage is an individual person's decision to make and who is female and who is male is no issue.
If I still should be around, when my sister is gone, you are all invited, help me cutting trees and do some garden word, while you teach me proper English and I teach you German.
I have had my highschool english and that was enough for me to understand most things necessary for survival, so I never tried to improve or learn more English than that. What's the big deal to speak imperfect English or odd German? Mostly it's fun.
I think the latest conventions to indicate female forms of otherwise male wordforms vis these stupid xyz-*innen, which even those media journalist*innen use, are ridiculous.
In my CV I am a Chemiker (male form of Chemist) and never Chemikerin (female form of Chemist). I guess during interviews folks found out that I was ...
I think today's expressions of feminism are gone bonkers.
Why the dividions between the female and the male?
What is the female form for lizard? Lizardess? /s
https://www.euronews.com/
Lizardly rhymes with wizardry
some critters remain sexless
and others change depending on needs
same with plants and fish and ..
why should we be different?
Seems language is unable to contain
evolving versions of our gender states
Language and culture
Thank you very much for your thoughtful essay on genderized language nuances.
My wife's family is from Germany, used to enjoy her Uncle Gunta's laughs when he came for
a visit. He served on a U-boat during the second WW. Never really understood his lingo,
but he made me laugh anyway. A happy soul.
It surprises me in my travels how much 'english' is spoken in the various places far away.
Listening to say Malaysians communicate in extremely broken spanglish is interesting.
The intent of the words carry thru just by focusing on the body language, tonal variations and
mental connections. Ahh, so.
Spanish education has served me well over the years. As a minor at university, had to read Don Quixote in the original. I think once one learns to communicate in a 'foreign' language, it is easier to apply to other varied tongues.
The Russian engineer aboard one of the ships was very creative. Taught me how to make a pump out of scrap pieces of pipe, threaded rod and leather. His favorite english word was shit.
Patois is an interesting dialect in the southern Caribe. Also the cajun french had an astounding array of terms gleaned from the old 'King's French' combined with Spanish and Creole. The Canucks could not understand bayou, but the cajuns understand what is now Canadian French.
Great posting!
Thanks again.
In the coming weeks I will be on a kind of “medical leave”
Please excuse my rudeness if I seem to post and run, or in general not be around very much in the coming weeks. It was partly gradual and partly a bolt from the blue, but in any case I’m now under strict doctor’s orders to stay off the computer and the Internet except for an hour or two a day, or risk (further) deleterious effects on my health.
“Workaholic Interventions Inc.” Or instead of Inc., in Germany, “GmbH & Co. KG”…
Your doctors are wise, please let them help healing you
All the best to you.
PS Pm me your doctor's address... ok, just kidding.
https://www.euronews.com/
Good advice, good timing
and good on you and your doctor. Take it easy and have fun. Right on! Go to nature, if there's any left around you, that's my advice. Listen to the trees.
Peace and Love