The Flag, How Far will this Go?
I made a comment yesterday about this flag/national anthem thing that I was really wound up about it. Well, today it got worse. My own brother told me I should leave the country if I can't stand for two minutes to respect this nation. Not directly, but he sent me a message that said "people who" don't want to stand, etc. I consider myself a person, therefore he meant me also.
I saw a headline of an article about an NFL player, or maybe a former one, who said if people don't believe in this country, they should leave. If you don't believe, you should leave.
Seems to me the people who think they're the most patriotic Americans are the ones who have forgotten what liberty and freedom are all about and what this country is supposed to be about. Or maybe they've never really known, they've been frauds all along, just like this country.
Don't they listen to the song, when it says "land of the FREE", don't they listen to that part?
What about liberty? Aren't they all about liberty? What happened to liberty? Are they telling me that unless I believe and respect what they tell me to believe and respect that I have no liberty, that I should get the fuck out of THEIR country? That liberty and freedom only go so far?
Here's how I responded back to my brother:
"This country is supposed to be about freedom man, not about fascism, being told that I'm not an American and have to leave the country because I don't stand for a song rich people devised to keep people in line. If that's what people want to do, then ya, there will be no compromise. I won't compromise my freedom to do what I want and believe what I want.
Sorry bro, I feel strongly about that."
What's really dividing us, the flag or our minds?
How far will this go? I don't know. How far will I go? I don't know that either, not yet. I'll know when I get there. I guess we will too.
Comments
You got it...
Its designed to keep We the People divided and our attention diverted.
This crap is usually thrown out at the end of the week so the nattering heads chatter about it to the sheeple all weekend, and it works.
I want to leave the country now jtc.
But all the other nations have flags too. You ever watch how their national soccer teams and fans sing their anthems. With glazed eyes man. Shit.
FUBAR man, it's all FUBAR.
I'd be more than willing
to leave this country if they would let me take my money with me.
I can take no more then 10k out in cash. And that's with a lot of explanation.
And of course, no country will let me stay without money to support myself.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
More diversion
While Americans are throwing insults back and forth at each other, the bank is being robbed by the usual suspects ... and they're doing it at their leisure
Once again, Caitlin Johnstone nails it: #TakeAKnee Vs. #BoycottNFL Is Vapid Establishment Wedge Politics
Well, at least we don't have to
take a loyalty oath to get a driver's license. Not yet anyhow. Some people treat the US flag as a kind of weird fetish. It gets to be like a sort of Cult, where if you show it off, that's supposed to prove you're a True Believer.
native
Catch 22 Loyalty Oaths
http://epic-site.com/catch-22-loyalty-oaths/
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
yeah, I thought democracy was about
having a valid say in the affairs of our republic. Where has this notion of being told how to think and act without public recourse come into fashion? Don't remember that one being passed in our legislature.
question everything
I do remember
our Supreme Court ruling flag burning as legal. Whats the diff?
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
the diff
between the ideologies of the legislative branch and judicial is smaller than trumpets hands, to say nothing of the executive.
question everything
I know this answer
This has been taught in our schools since the PTB understood how easily young minds can except government propaganda. They conditioned us to pledge our allegiance to a flag from 1st grade on up so that any time they roll it out we lemmings will rise up en route without thought. Those that think that this part is not true, "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all...... cannot protest against this unless they do it in private or they get someone's permission first.
Yep. Lemmings.
remember playing with erasures
that far back. Haven't pledged anything remotely similar in an enormously long time, like light years. Mental maturity has erased a lot of the old conditioning.
question everything
As I recall,
they didn't stick "under God" in there, until round about 1953. It must have been a kind of afterthought.
native
"Under God" addition to the Pledge of Allegiance
Here's the history of the addition:
Communists are always portrayed as atheists, and the Roman Catholic church was very threatened about a loss of power. Several of the countries of the former Soviet Union were heavily Catholic. Other countries under former Soviet control, such as Poland, were mostly Catholic, as well.
@karl pearson
In other words, fear of The Russians!!! was used back then to disrespect the US Constitution and to make inroads on the Constitutionally guaranteed right of freedom of religion for all Americans in every State of the Union? Why does this somehow remind of Cujo, long-living, lurking deadly viruses and rabid dogs?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
the most painful divisions in a family are those
caused by ideological political issues. Reminds me about all the divisions during the Nazi times that caused children to sell out their parents and parents to fear their children be in danger for their resistance to the Hitler regime. A two-way street of divisions in families to cause lots of pain.
It's very tragic and very, very painful. My grandfather on the maternal side feared for his son, who stood in opposition to his father's beliefs (grandpa was no Nazi, the son was enthusiastically supporting Hitler as a teenager). Grandpa died early at the end of wwII because of grief and hunger. The son grewing older in the sixties then had the same kind of division with his own son, who turned into a wanna-be leftist radical in the sixties in Berlin. His own son then later turned out to be a more calmer "rebel". His father's family love in the end was greater than the divisions and so the divisions were not causing permanent damage.
Tell your brother that family unity is more important than ideological political correctness. One day he will understand, probably too late. When bombs fell, shelters are destroyed and hunger takes over, it's family unity that help the members survive. On my father's side of the family, grandpa offered all his extended family and their in-laws the opportunity to work and to find shelter and food after the end of wwII. He was a hard nut to crack, but did the right thing, when it was needed. Took me a long time to realize it and respect him for what he did in hindsight. I wasn't born yet, when all that happened.
The next generation after that (the forty year olds today) have not had that experience and it is up in the stars to know how they will act when the shit hits the fan and blows it into their faces.
Listen to your heart, big Al, and my apologies to make such a comment that addresses you personally. Just couldn't help to say it. These are tough times to swallow. Yesterday's German elections bring all those memories up again. The flag thing, where this will go? We know already where that goes and no sane person would like to follow into that direction.
Peace.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Thanks mimi,
very thoughtful comment. Talked me "down" a bit, as I'm a little excited about this issue.
That's why I put in my tags "brother vs brother", this is not a new thing in history, unfortunately.
I don't see a problem for me and my bro though, we're closer than that. Except when I used to beat him up all the time.
what? you beat up your brother, now you make me take
his side ... despite the fact that I never would stay on his side 'ideologically'.
Heh, you got me all emotional and now I walk away like a "begossener Pudel" (to slink off like a poodle with his tail between his legs). I will get you for that, one day.
Cheers.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Heh, cheers mimi.
Hope you're enjoying Hawaii. I'm in Vegas right now trying to win enough money to start a revolution.
Try the "Deutsche Klassenlotterie"
after those election results their money, if you win it, definitely should be used for a revolution.
https://www.euronews.com/live
redacted - double post /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
I have been the black sheep
in my family for a long time. The person who holds views closest to my own is my 95 year old mother and yet she thinks that I am too far to the left. When you are an outlier in your own family, you have to learn to take the slings and arrows of the rest. I have been there and done it a lot. But we must be true to ourselves first.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Caitlin Johnstone's take
#TakeAKnee Vs. #BoycottNFL Is Vapid Establishment Wedge Politics
Certainly it's being used as a wedge issue,
but I'm not so sure Trump doesn't believe what he says. He's a racist, fascist, white nationalist so it fits right in with that. He's certainly playing it up, using it to his advantage and enjoys stirring up shit, as opposed to uniting the country as he says with his other fucking face, but I think he really believes this shit, just like half the country.
To many "leaders" compromise for the almighty$$$$
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXkt6QIHDIk]
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
can't see that video here in HI
it says in German that this video is not available. So who blocks out what and from where?
oops, nevermind. Now it's visible. Jimmy Dore show.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Fuck 'em
I suppose I should expand on that a little.
Anthems and flags are symbols. They don't mean shit.
Racism kills. Protest is patriotism. If you won't take a knee to protest racism, get the fuck out of my country.
Meanwhile almost 7 million Americans in Puerto Rico have been bombed back to the stone age. Maybe we can find someone in Washington to give two shits about them.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
^^^This!!!^^^ (n/m)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Might be Time for a Bellamy Salute MemeStorm...
Seriously... Great time to show a bunch of American kids giving the Hitler salute to the Stars & Stripes.
A pictures worth a thousand words, and a picture of kids doing the Hitler Salute creates more than a few conflicted feelings. Meme the shit out of that!
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
The great thing
about our National Anthem is that it's a question.
"Does that star-spangled banner yet wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"
It's a good question that challenges us into the future.
FUBAR
This FU (no "all right" about it) dates back to the days of Kings, where one owed allegiance to one's King (and therefore the King's Flag). But the King also owed certain things back to you! In the post-Monarchical age, so-called "democratic" Nation-States claim the allegiance while disavowing any obligations in return.
These things to which you object are part-and-parcel of the use of the State as the current form of societal organization. Humanity as a whole will have to evolve beyond the State to end these problems. Hence, I have little help to offer you here.
And soccer! Man, that shit's worse than fucking heroin! Look at how it deranges its followers everywhere else than the USA. Americans very seldom resort to the sort of mayhem that soccer-addicted populations do routinely! So don't judge nations by the behavior of their soccer fans. It's not fair to those countries to take them at their most deranged.
In this country, we simply select those same deranged folks into public office.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Agree, to State or not to State,
that is the question. We'll have to break it down a lot further than that I think.
I don't care who leaves.
All I know is that this country isn't big enough for both of us.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Excellent point
I'm going with option two. They have been frauds all along, just like this country.
What kicks my goat is how many people consider themselves Christians, yet they have no problem with killing others. This first started with the Native Americans because they weren't Christians. Then they moved on to African Americans because they too weren't Christians. Many others were killed because they weren't Christians and now it's okay to kill Muslims because they too are not Christians.
Fraudulent Christians and fraudulent Americans who are too stupid to understand what the 1st amendment is about.
I too would love to leave this country, but my second option is a c99 commune community. Hopefully this option is being taken seriously?
Oh lord, are we seeing the start of the Orthodox America?
Because the visceral hatred of those who do not worship the flag is almost religious in nature.
Worship the flag, for it represents America we are, and rather the America we wish to be... just donate properly to one of the established churches, either the Arensee, or the Deensee congregations. Remember that to speak of other churches is blasphemy and heresy.
If you disrespect our services, you shall be cast out of the church of America...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12kcpP-8jfM]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
@detroitmechworks
Now that Bush has been rehabilitated and Cheney is influencing Republicans, convincing them to support Tillerson as Sec of State, mentoring and advising Vice-President Pence, who wishes to model his Vice on Cheney's, suddenly the US flag - and doubtless soon flag-pins - has again required a fanatical religious significance.
Real patriotism involves trying to make right what's wrong with your country, not going all Pavlovian blind follower of whoever may happen to be in public office at the time. This is unsocial nationalism, by any other name.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
missing john lennon
imagine there's no countries
it isn't hard to do
nothing to kill or die for
no religions, too
bygorry
I just fly a different flag every day
That way, no one can complain too much.
Apparently, the Duke of Brunswick is residing within our little household, given the drapery.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I guess the Commies did win
since there seems to be an awful lot of political officers/commissars in the USA watching to make sure that everyone shows the expected amount of patriotic public display.
Of course, not a one of them would see that they are no different from the hated enemy of those halcyon days of yore.
Soviet Marshal, American General...
Same difference. Loadsa medals.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Evening Bollox
No stars on the American though. Just a bunch behind his smiling face.
Hey Janis
Funny how the 5-pointed star is an important symbol for both sides.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I thought that real stars
had an infinite number of points!
I just received an email
about the high schoolers in Montibello high, Ca., who took down the flag, hung it upside down, and how that killed the chances of Dreamers and shows Mexicns can't assimilate..
I replied that the kids had great big hearts, put their fellow human beings above artificial boundaries, as Jesus himself would do.
I expect that Jesus and I will be smacked down.
Jesus is used to it, but me, not so much.
These are difficult times.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Thanks Al
I saw this short documentary posted somewhere else, but I thought some here would appreciate watching it.
[video:https://vimeo.com/166881889]
Thanks janis,
That's very good. I knew about that third stance but had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder. Part of the contradictions we're facing that many people are refusing to admit or examine.
Excellent video janis - thank you for sharing this
I'm glad I took the time to watch it. Honestly I've been very annoyed the past couple days that football has been the hot topic. But now I see it a bit differently. I mean, I still don't understand why people care so much about NFL football in the first place. But since so many do, it's interesting how these players decided to use their visibility to say something, without even saying anything, just silently. And I guess it's working, and good for them. I'm totally with Big Al on how Trump is way over the line. Again.
But with Trump amping up the "patriotic" crowd... I fear violence is being formented, and that is also working. I don't watch or spend any money on football anyway, and I don't plan to start, but I'm seeing that this "diversion" has a lot of potential energy. How and where it will go... probably good to keep an eye on this.
At the same time, damn, Puerto Rico is demolished. Where are the fundraisers and benefits and help? Why isn't what happened there being covered 24/7 on CNN? I've realized a lot of people do not even know that PR is a US territory.
The National Anthem Sucks.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL2ZhLBe2DE]
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
We didn't always HAVE a National Anthem
It took until 1931 to get that thing rammed through Congress, over the objections of many, many people who complained that the tune was "unsingable" (it can be sung, but only if you have had extensive vocal training, or are too blind drunk to care how it sounds - the tune was a drinking song, after all).
Even originally, it had competitors ("Columbia the gem of the Ocean", "Hail Columbia", etc) which, however, had many of the same flaws (difficult tune, too wordy, etc), and the added problem of unclear reference ("Columbia" - the USA, but how many people got it even back then?).
More recent alternatives have included "America the Beautiful", "G-d Bless America", "My Country 'Tis of Thee" (which uses the same tune as "G-d Save the King/Queen" so was never a strong contender), and, most controversially, Woody Guthrie's "This Land".
That we even call it a national Anthem is highly suspect - anthems belong in church.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I still say Green Day nailed the American Spirit.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee_uujKuJMI]
Funny thing, right before the video was an MSM ad for their production of "American Made"...
A story where the main character is a CIA contractor...
Yes, the irony was perfect.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
@detroitmechworks
Yeah, lots don't want to be an American idiot - and the propaganda is failing to con enough people to worry the heck out of the corporate media, TPTB and their lackeys.
Luckily, the fossilized old fools tend to keep recycling the same propaganda tactics hoping that nobody'll notice how stupid they are... the Soviet Union and Cold War???!!!
On the other hand, it was already established by data checked by certain States that Homeland Security tried hacking into electoral apparatus during the 2016 election, where other attempts to gain 'protective' access had failed, and then they accuse Putin of what they do themselves, same as always, while Homeland Security just takes over the whole electoral works. And people still talk about voting...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
What's da matter Al?
Don't you want to honor bombs bursting in air and our war loving belligerence? Fighting for slavery and all (Key was a slave owner and he refers to them in the 3rd stanza). I'll not stand any more!
In fact this Alabama appeal against the NFL by T-rump was a racist ploy and they ate it up...yea! Who is taking the knee? Black players (mostly) protesting police injustice to blacks. Of course it played well in Alabama.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Could somebody explain the concept of respect in a context
where it is separated from earning and deserving that respect? One should respect a mob boss for his power, a con man for his guile, or a thug for his thuggery?
This is so bogus that it is beneath contempt. We support 73% of the fascist dictators in the world, so we should respect and humbly bow to the scumbags responsible and the painted rag that they use as a rallying point.
I'm sorry, but I'd like to speak to an adult, please.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
@enhydra lutris
I'll bet you could hear me applauding from here. The neighbours certainly must have.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Me too.
So well said, enhydra lutris.