The Dose - 9-30-21

Submitted by joe shikspack on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 3:39pm

An open thread for gentle discussions of all things Covid.

Hey! Good Evening!

United Airlines expected to fire nearly 600 workers for defying vaccine mandate

United Airlines has said nearly 600 US-based employees are facing termination after failing to comply with the carrier’s vaccination policy.

In early August, the company became the first US airline to require Covid-19 vaccinations for all domestic employees, requiring proof of vaccination by Monday.

The carrier said that on Tuesday, it would start the process of firing 593 employees who decided not to get vaccinated. ...

Excluding those who have sought an exemption, United said more than 99% of US-based employees have been vaccinated against Covid-19.

A company spokesperson said the airline plans to hire about 25,000 people over the next few years, and vaccination will be a condition of employment for all new hires.

NY Governor To Fire 70 THOUSAND Healthcare Workers Over Vaccine Mandate!

Hydroxychloroquine sales spiked almost 100% in Australia at start of Covid pandemic, study finds

The amount of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin dispensed from Australian pharmacies increased significantly in 2020 as the Covid pandemic took hold, according to new research. Analysis of six publicly subsidised drugs – including hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, corticosteroids and the common antibiotic azithromycin – found Covid-related changes in prescription patterns in Australia.

The study, a preprint that has not yet undergone peer review, used dispensing data to quantify the number of prescriptions that had been filled at pharmacies between January and November last year.

The researchers noted a 99% increase in hydroxychloroquine dispensing in March 2020, about 30% of which was the result of new prescriptions. This was around the time the drug – which has been shown to be ineffective against Covid-19 – was touted overseas by figures including Elon Musk and former US president Donald Trump. ...

New use of ivermectin doubled in May 2020, and an increase in dispensing was sustained over several months later in the year. “That’s pretty consistent with when it was first identified as potentially being disease-modifying for Covid,” Schaffer said. Studies suggesting ivermectin can effectively treat Covid have not held up under rigorous scrutiny.

The California region where Covid ‘just isn’t slowing down’

California has the lowest coronavirus case rate in the country. But within the state, the agricultural Central Valley and rural north remain overwhelmed. Resistance to vaccines and public health mandates, combined with the advance of the Delta variant, have triggered an explosion of cases that are pushing already strained public health systems to the brink. In some counties, the case rate per 100,000 people is three or more times that of the state.

At some healthcare facilities, critically ill patients have waited for days to be transferred from the emergency department to the ICU. Throughout the valley, hospitals have reported having less than 10% ICU capacity available since the beginning of September. And while the number of new cases appears to be slowing, healthcare workers are bracing for more hard weeks as patients continue to stream into hospitals.

On a typical day at the Community Regional medical center, a hospital in Fresno, Dr Kenny Banh says, patients are lined up outside on ambulance gurneys, because there are no hospital beds available. When he gets inside, even more patients in gurneys line the hallway. “I’m exhausted and just disappointed that we’re here,” said Banh, an associate professor of clinical emergency medicine at UCSF Fresno. Banh has been taking on extra shifts in the emergency department and ICU, as well as managing local vaccine clinics and testing centers that earlier this month had lines that stretched a mile long.

The deluge of illness and death had been especially difficult to fathom because the surge “was preventable”, said Banh. The region has much lower vaccination rates than the Bay Area or Los Angeles, and Banh regularly sees patients who are on ventilators and still do not believe they have Covid-19.

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Submitted by ggersh on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 4:48pm

The people of NY are trying to wake up!

https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/pygtu1/new_yorkers_protes...

—

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 5:32pm

Evolving terminology

is part of the contention. Terms in current use are fully vaccinated, vaccinated, unvaccinated and nonvaccinated. The CDC's website is not consistent on all pages, mentioning someone is considered vaccinated from the first shot. This continual change in terminology makes it extremely difficult to compare numerical changes over time and hold a dialog with someone. At sometime in the far future is will require retrospective analysis of the data to clean it up.

Simply receiving a shot of a vaccine is not considered Fully Vaccinated. At the moment the fully vaccinated definition being used by the CDC. is below.

In general, people are considered fully vaccinated: ±

2 weeks after their second dose in a 2-dose series, such as the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or
2 weeks after a single-dose vaccine, such as Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen vaccine

If you don’t meet these requirements, regardless of your age, you are NOT fully vaccinated. Keep taking all precautions until you are fully vaccinated.

If you have a condition or are taking medications that weaken your immune system, you may not be fully protected even if you are fully vaccinated. You should continue to take all precautions recommended for unvaccinated people until advised otherwise by your healthcare provider.

People with moderately to severely compromised immune systems should receive an additional dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine after the initial 2 doses.

Vaccine status necessary for participation of parts of society is also evolving. It is highly possible someone who has received 2 vaccine shots to be considered Unvaccinated in some situations.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 6:24pm

So, if one dies from the vaccine

@studentofearth
within 15 days of getting the shot the cause of death would be put down as COVID?

The PCR tests are notoriously inaccurate. If one wants to favour COVID, simply run the test at 35-40 cycles. If one wants to lesson it run the test at 20-25 cycles.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDPt_y0n1q0]

Submitted by studentofearth on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 7:57pm

my interpretation

@CB If 15 days after the first shot Pfizer or Moderna patient not vaccinated,

If 15 days after second shot Pfizer or Moderna or first shot of Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen patient would be considered a breakthrough case AND then need to determine if they should have had a booster shot. If meet criteria for booster requirement not sure if they are counting it as a not vaccinated infection.

It will be interesting how the late fall/winter surge will play out in the media as the Northern regions populations head indoors for winter.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by innatimm on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 8:17pm

PCR tests are accurate and sensitive

@CB I must disagree with your comment on PCR tests. Generally all PCR tests are run for 40 cycles. I usually think that signals arising after 35 cycles are a little suspect and need retesting but I have designed an assay that was capable of consistently giving a lower limit of detection at at the 35 cycle threshold. If I recall, it was in the femtogram range for the product we were looking for. Signals in the 20 to 25 cycle range are quite robust. PCR amplification doubles the amount of DNA with every cycle so you can detect very rare species

Submitted by CB on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 12:23am

The test is accurate for finding traces of COVID

@innatimm @innatimm
I was thinking about determining if you have active COVID and are infectious. Fauci has said any test over 35 cycles just shows dead nucleotides so people who are recovering and have immunity will show positive. People who are in the early stages of infection may not even show at 45 cycles.

The CDC overcomes this difficulty by simply requiring vaccination for everyone, whether they have natural immunity or not. We are now going for the booster (3rd) shot in over 65 and those with several comorbidity. The CDC originally was going to do the booster for everyone but said wouldn't due to global shortages.

Have you heard of antibody dependent enhancement?

Director of CDC, Rochelle Walensky warns of ADE, Antibody Dependent Enhancement From Israel Data
Posted on August 23 2021

“Additionally, reports from our international colleagues, including Israel, suggest increased risk of severe disease amongst those vaccinated early.” Dr. Rochelle Walensky

Can you explain what is going on in the following graph?

COVID-19 vaccinations vs. COVID-19 deaths, Dec 1, 2020 to Sep 29, 2021 - USA~IND~ISR~BGD~NGA~DOM
Total vaccine doses administered per 100 people vs. daily new COVID-19 deaths per million people.

Submitted by innatimm on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 5:41am

You lack the knowledge to comment on PCR test validity

@CB It's clear from your statements that you don't have the technical background to make an informed judgement on the outcome of a PCR test.

Submitted by CB on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 8:46am

Tell me where I am wrong about the PCR tests

@innatimm
used for confirming infection?

What about my other questions?

Submitted by innatimm on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 12:58pm

Tests have protocols that need to be followed

@CB
Diagnostic labs follow SOPs that aren't somehow randomly changed from 20 to 45 cycles. PCR tests are extremely selective and quite sensitive. Do the math on 45 cycles of doubling and you will see what a low starting level you would have to have to achieve a negative result.

The quote from Dr Walensky is not warning of ADE but waning immunity. The data doesn't support ADE in any manner

The quote from Dr Mullis is not related to COVID but was regarding his contention that HIV was not the cause of AIDS (which he differed from Dr. Fauci) Dr. Mullis died before COVID became an issue.

Both are selectively edited video clips

Submitted by CB on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 2:21pm

I didn't say tests were RANDOMLY changed

@innatimm
Testing is not uniform across different labs and a lot has to do with the interpretation of the test. I've seen many reports such as the following:

CDC: maximum 28 CT for post-vaccine COVID PCR tests

As reported by Daniel Horowitz at Blaze Media, the new CDC guidance for “COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough case investigation” – meaning people who tested positive after getting vaccinated – says PCR tests should be set at 28 CT or lower. The stated reason for the 28 CT maximum is to avoid false positives on people who have been vaccinated, which would discourage acceptance of the vaccines.

This is another example of ‘following the science’ only when it suits a political purpose; to wit, CDC is not recommending the lower threshold for anyone else being tested. False positives must be avoided to encourage vaccinations, but false positives to prevent children from attending school or maintain other government restrictions seem OK with CDC.

Last summer, the New York Times reported that CTs above 34 almost never detect live virus but most often, dead nucleotides that are not contagious. The Sentinel found that many private labs in Kansas used thresholds of 38 and 40, and another one in Lenexa potentially at 45. The state lab at the Kansas Department of Health initially used a 42 CT on its most commonly performed test; on January 7, they reduced it to 35.

I chose wrong Mullis video:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW5bNd-D0jw]

I still would like your ideas on what the causes are for the striking differences between the countries shown on my link to death rate vs vaccination rates in the various countries.

Submitted by innatimm on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 4:50pm

You still show that you don't know enough about PCR technology

@CB The CT value isn't the number of cycles that an assay is run. Dr. Mullis makes my point about the sensitivity and specificity of PCR. Again he was speaking of HIV and not COVID.

Submitted by CB on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 7:29pm

I know Ct values alone cannot tell

@innatimm
how infectious a person is, the viral load or the particular stage of disease. I also know the Ct levels show when the target becomes detectable - the lower the number the greater the amount of target. Non-infectious viral particles can also be detected at higher Ct values which can lead to false positives. Plus, the results need to be interpreted. All in all, the process can be manipulated to skew results.

Why COVID PCR tests aren’t as accurate as you think

Recently, I started suspecting that RT-PCR testing was not foolproof at ruling out COVID disease after seeing a fair number of patients with typical signs and symptoms but a negative PCR. I have encountered some patients hospitalized with typical COVID pattern pneumonia, thromboembolism with multiple negative PCR tests. Some of these folks even had exposure history and the signature hallmarks unique to this virus, like multiple peripheral opacities on CT scan and loss of sense of taste and smell.

This raised the question about the test’s validity. Contrary to common belief, tests of all kinds have some degree of false positives and false negatives. With influenza almost nonexistent in the U.S. this season because of all the COVID precautions, it is hard to ascribe another cause to justify these patients’ typical symptoms and presentations. Multiple companies are doing these tests, and some without much experience under the FDA’s emergency use authorization. Most folks believe that a positive test means they are sick and negative means that they got a green signal to be free, but the truth is far from it, and the answer is somewhat complicated.
...
I wish the FDA, CDC, epidemiologists, experts, and media put more time and effort into public education on this serious pitfall of testing. Even most doctors don’t understand or know the extent of this serious limitation for RT-PCR testing, which could play a significant role in spreading this disease.

I would still like your opinion on the graph showing current relationship between high death rate with higher vaccine rates in the link I gave in the previous post.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 5:59pm

The Guardian is not an unbiased source.

On a typical day at the Community Regional medical center, a hospital in Fresno, Dr Kenny Banh says, patients are lined up outside on ambulance gurneys, because there are no hospital beds available.

I cannot find any other sources for that Guardian story. The current status of Fresno county is 1 case per 192 people. This is at the very lower end of 5 ranges for severity. There's no way in hell their hospitals are overcrowded.

The only COVID story on ABC News Fresno County covering North Valley, South Valley, Foothills/Sierra was the following:

105-year-old woman who survived 1918 flu, World War II dies from COVID-19

She lived a life of adventure that spanned two continents. She fell in love with a World War II fighter pilot, barely escaped Europe ahead of Benito Mussolini's fascists, ground steel for the U.S. war effort and advocated for her disabled daughter in a far less enlightened time. She was, her daughter said, someone who didn't make a habit of giving up.

And then this month, at age 105, Primetta Giacopini's life ended the way it began - in a pandemic.

"I think my mother would have been around quite a bit longer" if she hadn't contracted COVID," her 61-year-old daughter, Dorene Giacopini, said. "She was a fighter. She had a hard life and her attitude always was ... basically, all Americans who were not around for World War II were basically spoiled brats."

Primetta Giacopini's mother, Pasquina Fei, died in Connecticut of the flu in 1918 at age 25. That flu pandemic killed about 675,000 Americans - a death toll eclipsed this month by the 2020-21 coronavirus pandemic.

To put the death rate in perspective, the population of the US in 1918 was 103 million compared to the current 333 million.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 6:13pm

Primetta Giacopini's story brought to mind

@CB
a significant difference between the influenza pandemic of 1918 and today's 2020 SARS-CoV2 pandemic is the age at which the disease took the most lives. In the 1918 pandemic it was mostly 20 to 40 years old unlike today's pandemic which kills mostly >65 year old.

Submitted by joe shikspack on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 7:07pm

evening cb...

@CB

perhaps these stats will help.

here are the stats for the hospital mentioned in the guardian article (fresno community regional medical center) on hospital capacity.

here are the capacity stats for all of the hospitals in the region.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 11:13pm

It doesn't appear the hospital is doing so bad

@joe shikspack
Latest: 144 COVID beds out of total 675
Jan 1, 2021: 268 COVID beds out of total 712 (much worse shape)

I'm sure local media would have reported it. I did discover the 2017-2018 flu season was especially bad. The were treating people in the halls and had even set up triage tents for 40 patients.

Submitted by joe shikspack on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 11:22pm

if the federal (hhs) stats ...

@CB

are to be believed, the latest for that hospital is, that 582.3 of 674.9 adult inpatient beds are in use and 159.0 of 179.0 icu beds are in use.

that would seem to be in conflict with the numbers that you quote of "covid beds." perhaps those "covid beds" are the additional beds in non-hospital surge facilities meaning that they are the beds of last resort in tents somewhere which are available once the hospitals are full?

just sayin'

Submitted by CB on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 12:03am

I think the hospitalized COVID

@joe shikspack @joe shikspack
patients (I made an error NOT beds) were divided up between the ICU and the regular beds. Probably had separate wards/floors. Not all COVID cases will need ICU. In any event their 7 day COVID patient sum only ranged from 94 to 85 per week in Sept. Their highest was only 100 on Aug 20. In Dec. 2020 it reached 150.

In any event it really doesn't look as bad as was portrayed in The Guardian.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 9:45pm

As of mid September, Fresno & Fresno area had

@CB

about 1700 regular beds and 365 ICU beds, which is possibly deceptive since it includes one short term surgical hospital and one short term heart and surgical hospital, one childrens hospital, and one Kaiser Facility (an HMO which might not be admitting non members)

Community Regional has 675 regular beds and 170 ICU beds. Population Fresno only, is 525,010. At one case per 192 people, that would be 2,734 total cases, far more than total beds, but not necessarily requiring a bed.

As of 9/17, Regional was as 86.3 capacity for regular beds and 88.8 ICU, children's was at 96.8 and 99.4, and Kaiser 84.8 and 100. Neighboring Clovis was at 95.7 and 86.2. They could easily have pushed through 100% across the board in the intervening 2 weeks, so I wouldn't completely discount that narrative.

Fresno county, fwiw is Fresno-Clovis a smattering of scattered small and tiny towns and a lot of land devoted to agriculture.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by snoopydawg on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 9:22pm

Interesting if true

BREAKING: #OchsnerHealth in LA is now mandating vaccines for spouses of employees.

If your spouse is on your insurance and does not get the jab, they will be imposing a $100 per-pay-period fee.

What started as a $100 incentive to get the jab has now turned into a recurring tax. pic.twitter.com/RBPGKmQj1I

— Jason Bailey (@iamjasonbailey) September 30, 2021

Good thing Democrats passed the ACA so we’re stuck paying an unnecessary middle man just so we might not have really high bills after some unfortunate events.

Ehh?

The Dementia Regime pic.twitter.com/ko7ArLlgJC

— David Michael (@michael_david41) September 28, 2021

Oops the old bag let it slip about who’s really in charge of the Biden/Harris administration didn’t she?

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by joe shikspack on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 9:37pm

evening snoopy...

@snoopydawg

that obama slip was probably just wishful thinking.

have a great evening!

Submitted by CB on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 10:38pm

Obama is the "power behind the throne"

@joe shikspack
along with the Clinton machine.`

There is no f'ing way Biden and Harris are the ones making executive decisions.

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 9:37pm

aarrgghh

I will sit back, watch the lawsuits fly, consider the theories, the rulings, and make a decision to head for Belize, or not.
LOTS of people marry for no other reason than to obtain health insurance. Has nothing to do with love and commitment, more to do with friendships. A friend helping a sick or chronically ill friend live a bit more securely, a bit longer.
What a shitty country we are.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 9:49pm

If you head for Belize, check out Chan Chich (if you

@on the cusp

haven't already), you'll love it

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 9:57pm

I just trekked over one afternoon from Guatemala

@enhydra lutris after climbing up a pyramid. Know more of it from what I have heard and read, than what I have seen.
I have pals that did the ex-pat thing in Belize, Costa Rica, Columbia, Mexico, Ecuador, Peru,and Panama. Most favorable reports come from Peru and Panama. Especially Panama.
I could do Panama easily, if push comes to shove.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 10:40pm

When I ws in Panama not too many years ago it was

@on the cusp

explained to a group of birders we were with that we were the type of people the govt wanted to move there, retired with pensions or other steady income. Saw some nice birds and picked up a bot fly. Still reeked of the US occupation.

be well and have a good ne

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by pswaterspirit on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 11:30pm

I just see a lot of fear

I saw this among my social media friends from the beginning. They were so terribly frightened to even go outside. After a year of staying home getting their reality from whatever side of the political aisle they fall on they are off the deep end with fear and anger at those on the other side of the fence. My life barely changed. I am an essential worker my job can't be done from home. I was in public daily swimming in the petri dish called a grocery store. Covid wasn't really front and center in my thoughts ever. The crazy people and the broken supply chain were much more worrisome. Recently I stopped listening to a news channel that I have listened to for probably 30 years broadcast from Seattle because I was tired of the constant barrage of scare tactics aimed at getting people to get their vaccine. It was constant. They very seldomly reported on anything else. I never watch television so that probably helps too. My new station is hyper local to the territory I am district manager for. It reports on how the schools are doing with the mandates by interviewing principals. Talks to the PUD about how they are working to keep the lights on and so forth. They promote community spirit. The most recent news has thrown the whole lot into a frenzy. A member of the Cowlitz county council has died of Covid, he was fully vaccinated 4 months ago. I am interested to hear the spin on that. Not that I intend to venture into the mental cesspool to hear it.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 11:47pm

I hear you

@pswaterspirit

I was working at a hospital during the H1N1 epidemic and it was just background noise to most of us. Funny though how there was no hysteria about how deadly it was. Not did everyone need to wear masks or do any of the things we’re doing now. Also there was no fear porn about it. I have friends who still stay at home because they are too frightened to go out and enjoy life. I find that sad.

—

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Submitted by joe shikspack on Thu, 09/30/2021 - 11:55pm

evening pswaterspirit...

@pswaterspirit

i hear you. i see a lot of fear and division, too. i wish that we could all work together to figure out how to best manage our risks, make a plan and get on with life. unfortunately, i'm not sure that our country is capable of that sort of thing anymore.

Submitted by jbob on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 5:12am

Network of Right-Wing Health Care Providers Is Making Millions

A network of health care providers pocketed millions of dollars selling hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and online consultations, according to hacked data provided to The Intercept. The data show that vast sums of money are being extracted from people concerned about or suffering from Covid-19 but resistant to vaccinations or other recommendations of public health authorities.

read this from the intercept

Submitted by CB on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 1:25pm

$15 million is not that great for the US as a whole

@jbob
But I don't understand the prescriptions (33%) for vitamin C and zinc - both are available at your local Wally Mart. Ivermectin sales were only $4.7 mill. (I don't know what 'Other' is at $6.4 mill.) I would have thought sales of ivermectin would have been much higher. I would say that the majority of people that want it are buying it from normal sources.

As P.T succinctly said, "There's a sucker born every minute".

Online scams increased considerably in the last year. Possibly it was because of lock-downs that people spent more time on the internet - business, shopping and meeting people. On-line sales grew by 200%.

State of Internet Scams 2021

A record $4.2 billion was lost by Americans to online scams in 2020, with victims often losing their life savings and taking their own lives. It accounts for more than half of the total loss worth $7.6 billion lost over the previous three years from 2017-2019. The crisis is worsening, which is why we are releasing the first study on State of Internet Scams 2021 to offer a comprehensive and real-time overview. The purpose of this study is to equip people with the knowledge required to avoid becoming a victim. The mission of Social Catfish is to help eradicate Internet scams.

We intend to release a State of Scams study annually to make sure that people are aware of the latest scams.

Submitted by wokkamile on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 4:52pm

That TI thing was posted

@jbob here the other day. It's just another horse paste hit job on IVM, using plenty of scare words and guilt by association, along with the usual appeals to public health authority gods. Fortunately I didn't go through a RW group to get info on and access to IVM, nor does it appear most people here did either. FLCCC.net is the go-to group of doctors for safe and effective alternative treatment protocols.

Submitted by pswaterspirit on Fri, 10/01/2021 - 8:32pm

Yes. I believe much of the

Yes. I believe much of the fear is manufactured. I remember the H1N1 flu, really the reporting was minimal just the facts and some advice on precautions. People went on as usual. This was, maybe, a little more widespread. I had it before the knew what it was. It ran through every grocery store like wildfire with about a quarter to a third of people out sick at any given time for a month and a half or so. It was a nasty virus took me down for about a week. I had a residual cough for another month. Any time I mentioned the experience and the fact that it was a mean little virus I had people call me a liar because the government didn't tell us about it until February. It feels a bit like being surrounded by pod people. At this point I am more concerned with their inability to think for themselves, that seems far more dangerous than the virus, at least to me.