The difference between liberals and leftists

I was reading this article and shaking my head in disgust, when I had an epiphany.

Fifty-one percent of Democrats in the Economist-YouGov survey say they have a somewhat or very favorable view of the 43rd president, while 42 percent hold a somewhat or very unfavorable view of Bush.

I remember Dubya. He was, and still is, a war criminal. That hasn't changed. The only thing that has changed is liberals.
How can they forgive him?
To understand this, it requires a deep dive into tribal politics. Fortunately, this article does the hard work for me.

Party loyalists believe the gap between the two parties is huge. The Republican party is so egregiously horrible, they argue, that it is imperative to remain loyal to our only hope of stopping them: the Democratic party. This viewpoint is captured in a recent Democratic Campaign Coordinating Committee sign reading “Democrats 2018: I mean, have you seen the other guys?”
...Leftwingers, on the other hand, see the gap between Democrats and Republicans as smaller. They like to point out examples of silent bipartisanship: the complicity of Democrats in the disastrous war in Iraq and the racist war on drugs, for example, or the Obama administration’s continuation of Bush-era, corporate-driven education reform.
Behind this divide is a failure to see eye-to-eye over certain larger narratives – narratives that leftwingers talk about more than liberals do. The left often situates both parties within broader conceptual frameworks, such as neoliberalism, corporate power and imperialism. To defeat these larger, nefarious societal structures and historical trends, leftwingers argue, we must identify them and prepare a plan to conquer them – a task more difficult than just defeating the Republicans at the ballot box.
Many liberals, meanwhile, either have not thought about, do not believe in, or do not prioritise addressing these forces.

This is the critical point: liberals do not share my values.
Liberals don't care about our endless wars that slaughter innocent people and bankrupt the nation, just like Republicans.
Liberals don't care about wealth inequality because they believe in a capitalist meritocracy that doesn't exist, just like Republicans.
Oh sure, liberals give lip-service to leftist values, but then they forgive war criminals too. So who cares what they say?

Simply, liberals are as different from leftists as liberals are from conservatives.

So what do liberals value? The appearance of protecting minorities.
I say "the appearance" because liberals are delusional.

What’s more, the threat of Republican power, liberals point out, is especially acute to marginalised communities: whereas privileged idealists can afford to say “it has to get worse before it gets better,” immigrants at risk of deportation, black people at risk of police brutality and gay couples at risk of having their rights rolled back do not have the same luxury.

Which makes some sense, until you look at the track record (i.e. facts).
Let's start with "immigrants at risk of deportations".

Obama was the “deporter-in-chief” so you might think that liberals wouldn't like him.
Nope. Liberals are still in love with him.
Well, it's OK because Trump is so much worse to immigrants than Obama was, right?
Nope. Obama was, and is, still worse than Trump.

Mostly deportations have remained lower than in past years under the Obama administration. From January to June, Immigration and Customs Enforcement deported 61,370 criminals, down from 70,603 during the same period last year.

The same can be said about blacks, who are worse off under Obama.

There is no reconciling this huge gap between what liberals believe and value and reality.
What's more, pointing out these indisputable facts regarding immigration and the AA community on places like DKos will trigger unhinged fury and accusations of racism from liberals.
Why is that?
I used to think it was because of shameless, hypocritical, opportunistic, partisan politics. Now I think the reason is much deeper: Identity Politics.

Identity pertains not simply to the kind of person that we are. People have been sorted (and self-sorted) into kinds throughout history. Identity is different. First, it carries a determination about guilt or innocence that nothing can appreciably alter. Its guilt is guilt without atonement; its innocence is innocence without fault. No redemption is possible, but only a schema of never-ending debts and payments. Second, this schema is made possible because identity politics is, tacitly or expressly, a relationship — something quite different from sorting (and self-sorting) by kinds. In the identity-politics world, the further your distance from the epicenter of guilt, the more debt points you receive. What is the epicenter of guilt? Being a white male heterosexual. The debt points are not real currency, but they offer something that mere money cannot: a sense of moral superiority. “Join us,” says the Democratic party, “and though your actual wounds cannot be healed, or even eased, by our policies and programs, they can be covered with the cloak of righteousness.” This is the stuff of religion, not normal politics.

Hostility to contradictory facts and reality.
The delusion of moral superiority simply by inclusion in 'the club'.
Original Sin.
Blind loyalty to authority figures and institutions.
A child's-coloring-book knowledge of the real history of their basic tenets.
The inability of the leaders to accept responsibility for failures, and instead assigning the blame to a lack of faith and will in the little people.

You could just as easily be talking about a religious cult, or about the current state of liberal Identity Politics.

Of course, Republicans are no better, and in some ways are worse.
Like liberals, Republicans have their own "white version" of Identity Politics, with all of the same magical thinking, hostility to facts and logic, blind loyalty to authority figures, and of course a delusional reality.

The right, meanwhile, does not understand the divide, continuing to believe in a monolithic “radical left” filled with “radical liberals”. This leads to the funny situation, as one commentator noted, in which members of both the left and the right reach for the same “I made it through college without becoming a liberal” T-shirt.
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@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Lol, yeah, but you already knew that!

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al I thought of that too, but the Guardian is actually talking about leftist Democrats vs liberal Democrats.

One could say, of course, that anybody who's still a Democrat can't be a leftist, but I think they can--they just have to be sincerely deluded about the prospects for changing the party.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al But how does not wanting anything to do with Sanders and the Democrats make a person a sellout to the duopoly?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

SnappleBC's picture

@Big Al

When they look at "Democrats" and "Liberals" and "Left leaning voters" who are they talking about? Seldom do the questions encompass any answer I would give. I had that same question at the meeting of Democrats Abroad I went to. They wanted to "Get out the vote" to "Democratic voters". I wondered who they were referring to.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

SnappleBC's picture

That's why all the calls for "unity" (starting back in March of '16) were and remain hopeless. As I said at the time, "Would you call for unity with Republicans? If not, why would you call for unity with Liberals?"

Although, when i think on it further, in some cases the issue is that we don't share values and in others it's that we don't share reality. My brother and I share similar values. But he's caught in the Democratic bubble so he simply doesn't see the wars and death tolls. He acknowledges them intellectually but the impact of them just slides right off. He's been told that we are in to fight terrorism and save the people from evil dictators and that's good enough for him. If he thought we were there to plunder and steal he would not approve.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Cassiodorus's picture

@SnappleBC @SnappleBC The liberal's ace-in-the-hole, however, is insincerity. Real values have to be covered up for liberals so that the knife in the back comes as a surprise. Notice how Craig234 doesn't come around here anymore? Too much exposure is toxic for liberals.

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"The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening." -- Rosa Luxemburg

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassiodorus Is that why they want us to shut up so bad?

I never could understand that. Since we don't have power, why the hell do they care what we think (or say)? It seems like such a multi-billion-dollar waste of time for the oligarchs and their employees and their dupes to keep trying to shut us up. All this censorship and propaganda and perception management and opinion management (software and otherwise)--what the hell for? The point is they've surrounded themselves with enough technologically advanced military power (including surveillance) to make successful populist armed revolution impossible. They also have, shall we say, controlling interests in the areas of media, politics, law, and education. So they've made it so we can't have power within the system and we can't get rid of the system. So again, why the hell do they care what we think or say?

Perhaps they're just lunatics.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

k9disc's picture

Socialism is strong in America if you just look at the polling, skewed as it is by the corporate sponsors.

It's just that we don't have our hands on the levers of power. That's the only thing we're missing to have an impact.

They care about us so much because if we get in, the gravy train is going to run off the tracks.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

lotlizard's picture

@k9disc  
all these crooked banksters, or you’re fired. In fact, you might even go to jail yourself as an accomplice to their racketeering schemes.”

Heh.

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@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Because ideas are dangerous. And because the people, united, will never be defeated.

Look at all of the small impoverished countries attacked by a giant and seemingly unstoppable military machine but whose people were never defeated and kept fighting for the ruins of their country and freedom even from poisoned jungles and bombed-out villages. Hitler was thought unstoppable, too.

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@SnappleBC Though we are on different sides of a mighty divide now, may I quote Meteor Blades?

"Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what you do, and then I'll tell you what you believe."

When looked at in that light, it's absolutely obvious what the liberals and the Democrats they vote for (most of whom aren't even liberals) believe.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

SnappleBC's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

What I know for a fact is that I'm not that. I'm against things like war crimes. I'm in favor of social safety nets. I approve of strong labor and I think the public commons is important. I have no idea what that makes me in American political speak. I suppose that makes me a fringe conspiracy theorist.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

EdMass's picture

This is why I am here.

You go brother.

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Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

minimal understanding of the left. Republicans just think "commies" and Democrats just think that we should automatically vote for them because we have no other damn choice. The Democratic Party is not my "natural home" I have no desire to change it, we agree on so very little and quite frankly they remind me of the European centre-right parties. The "least bad" schtick is just another bloody band-aid. If they want to cheer on evil clowns like GW Bush that is their choice, the party of ex-Republicans have never seen an American war or war crime that they couldn't justify to themselves.
I'd rather not be represented than have this lot pretend that they represent me at all, it's my fundamental disagreement with Bernie Sanders they are beyond change or repair. Polluted by the need for money and therefore power with no intention to actually govern for the people.
I have given up even listening or reading their tortuous arguments when trying to justify the indefensible, I'm tired of both their houses, in my eyes both of them are the problem.
As for Trump he is a just a sign of the times a direct result of failing to govern for the people for decades.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@LaFeminista Bingo!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cassiodorus's picture

@LaFeminista Trump is even more than that -- he's the result of the Democratic Party selection of a candidate so inappropriate she, with all her political experience, couldn't even beat her reality TV-star friend whom she chose as her preferred opponent. He is, in short, a consequence of Clinton failure.

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"The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening." -- Rosa Luxemburg

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cassiodorus He's also a result of a specific campaign strategy she approved. FFS.

Every time they complain about him, I want to say "Go talk to the mirror."

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@LaFeminista

...they are beyond change or repair...

Gotta agree with you there, but the plan was to replace the corrupted old hulks with fresh new young bloods. But the Psychopaths and Parasites That Be haven't the sense to take the stolen money and run, not even to allow a chance of planetary survival...

up
0 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

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