DeSantis completely eliminates COVID in Florida

Not a single new case! Not one!
There's nothing suspicious about this AT ALL!

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So how do you think that Florida is the only state in the U.S. that has eliminated all COVID? I'm sure it was with honorable and trustworthy policies.

The state until early June posted on its website daily reports that provided extensive data about issues such as cases and deaths, with information also broken down by county. But Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration halted the daily reports in June and shifted to posting weekly information that is far less detailed.

It's sort of like when Trump eliminated most public reports coming out of our war in Afghanistan. Trump did it because we were winning in Afghanistan so there was no longer any worthwhile information to report.
I'm certain that DeSantis feels the same.

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Lookout's picture

...and COVID goes away. Don't you understand it's just a conspiracy?

Joking aside, I think mandates on either side of the virus are a mistake that only alienates people. Sad that science has become so partisan, when in reality it is a for profit system against all but the bottom line.

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12 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout are probably necessary at this time, and in any case are probably effective generally and are clearly FAR more preferable to vaccine mandates, if we must have mandates. Masks are a no-risk, no side effects, temporary inconvenience, and you can un-mask easily and be no worse for it. Not so with these high-risk alleged vaccines, as I'm unaware of how one can detox from any of them once they are inside the body. And do they involve any permanent damage or substantial change to a person's DNA?

Re DeSantis, I reluctantly have to credit him for a couple of things, however much he may be fudging the state's numbers on Covid and being an idiot about masks: 1) he's expressed skepticism about the effectiveness of the vaccines, which puts him in the reality community on that point, and 2) he has arranged to establish a number of monoclonal antibody clinics around the state to treat Covid patients at the second stage of the disease, which may ultimately bring down hospitalization and death numbers.

I understand Dr Peter McCullough had privately consulted w/DeSantis about taking this step, which isn't all a political leader should be doing but is nonetheless a positive move. Frankly, the TREATMENT aspect of this 18 months of Covid has been badly neglected, scandalously so, by both public health and political leaders. Sadly, all of the D leaders have fallen obediently in step behind the edicts of the alphabet health agencies, as the dulled mindset appears to have been in 2020 to just wait until the vaccines come along while doing NOTHING wrt treatment, and when they did arrive, put all your eggs in that basket, at the expense of already available, safe, effective and cheap treatments.

How many perhaps hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved by just being smart and treating patients now, aggressively, with viable treatment protocols, with track 2 being vaccines for later? One rebel doctor estimates we could have saved 80% of the 600K who have died so far.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@wokkamile , is a bad word because it does not bring about profits to the pharmaceutical industry. TREATMENT means they cannot force the vaccine on us.

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8 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

@Raggedy Ann Having a safe and effective treatment also would mean the Covid vaccines could not have been made available on a rushed EUA basis, per federal law. The information about that IVM treatment alternative, available in 2020, had to be suppressed.

As CB has noted here, look for a IVM knockoff drug from Merck or Pfizer soon, and it's likely to get fast tracked for approval from the FDA. It won't work as well, might be less safe, but it will surely be marketed as more safe than that "horse paste" animal drug and will be much more expensive than that off-patent cheap alternative.

Now that Pfizer and Moderna have tasted Big Time Record Profits with their Covid vaccines, bringing billions of dollars into their company coffers, they aren't going to be interested in drugs that would squeeze mere millions.

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Lookout's picture

@wokkamile

hence the "joking aside" phrase I used.

My biggest bitch about the mishandling isn't about just suppressing treatments, but ignoring the preventative measures that should be pushed (beyond distancing and masks)... like Vit D & C, zinc, rinsing with effective mouthwash after encounters, melatonin, and so on. All safe, effective, cheap, and available ... and so not promoted. I find it very telling.

I found this piece looking into IVM poisoning interesting too.

Be well.

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7 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout how our public health authorities and the usual dozen medical "experts" on the cables never or rarely mention all these helpful things people can do at home, w/o a prescription, and cheaply, to strengthen their immune systems and thereby reduce the risk of getting seriously sick from Covid, keeping people out of hospitals.

To my knowledge, Dr Fauci, not an advocate of vit supplements generally, has only once mentioned in a public interview that he takes Vit D3. That would be once in about 10,000 media interviews in the past 18 months.

Thanks Tony, aka "America's Doctor".

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edg's picture

@wokkamile

Will a COVID-19 vaccine alter my DNA?

No. COVID-19 vaccines do not change or interact with your DNA in any way. Both mRNA and viral vector COVID-19 vaccines deliver instructions (genetic material) to our cells to start building protection against the virus that causes COVID-19. However, the material never enters the nucleus of the cell, which is where our DNA is kept.

Source: Myths and Facts about Covid-19 Vaccines

Also, see: DNA and RNA-based vaccines: principles, progress and prospects

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Bisbonian's picture

so Monday is a big day. I suspect that Florida might have similar counting habits to Arizona. Deaths, votes, whatever.

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9 users have voted.

"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

So I saw this, and that got me wondering where it was from.

The Coming Genocide: Mass Extermination of Humanity, Part 1
...
According to government statistics as of mid-August,13,627 deaths from the jab, 2,836,646 adverse effects (that’s almost 3 million injuries), and 1,429 fetal deaths in pregnant women. Link (VAERS)

So I clicked on the link.
I followed the links back to this site.
Which also included this.

They had no voice. They had no choice.
They are the men, women, and children who have died or been injured by vaccines in nations around the world for the past 200 years. This is a virtual Memorial dedicated to those whose lives have been forever changed by vaccines they were often required by law to use.

The National Vaccine Information Center, headquartered in the United States, has created this Memorial to honor individual vaccine victims. The Memorial also offers families around the world the opportunity to post stories and photos about what happened to their loved ones so that others can become educated about the signs and symptoms of vaccine reactions in order to prevent vaccine injuries and deaths.

Finally, they link back to VAERS, which is an actual official site.
So I could finally see where the data is coming from.

VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.

So the "official government data" is subject to any random sets of trolls, even automated trolls, that are out there.
The actual official government data is still significant, but a lot less alarming.

Deaths [Total=2,675]
People aged ≥65 years 2,331 (87%)

So virtually everyone who has died from the vaccine was also in the most danger from the disease.

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snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

Trolls? VAERS site is just a warning sign that something is going wrong and it sure seemed accurate for all other vaccines like the swine flu when it had reported 50 deaths and stopped giving them. It never been determined inaccurate or considered untrue before Covid arrived on the scene. If anything the numbers are much lower than it shows.

I question anyone who trusts what government tells us.

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12 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@snoopydawg
The death toll is almost certainly in the MILLIONS.
It's a genocide, just like the woman said. We are all in danger! They plan on killing us all!

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edg's picture

@gjohnsit

When indulging conspiracy theorists, one must use all caps and bolding. For example, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!! THE GOVERNMENT IS OUT TO GET US!!! SOYLENT GREEN IS HUMANS!!! IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!

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@edg
How could I have forgotten?
Lot's of caps. Lots of exclamation marks. And don't forget the occasional spelling error.

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Cassiodorus's picture

@snoopydawg Stop lights, you see, are an eeeeeevil conspiracy to stop your car so you can be arrested at any time while driving on city streets. Always run them!

(Hint: there's government and then there's government...)

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"Freedom is always, and exclusively, freedom for the one who thinks differently.” -- Rosa Luxemburg

CB's picture

@Cassiodorus
of the drug and weapon manufacturers.

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Cassiodorus's picture

@CB Under capitalism everything is a commodity, even government. That's government as a commodity, bought and paid for by drug and weapon manufacturers.

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9 users have voted.

"Freedom is always, and exclusively, freedom for the one who thinks differently.” -- Rosa Luxemburg

CB's picture

@Cassiodorus
VAERS is managed by the CDC. The CDC in turn is managed by the Department of Health and Human Services. The United States Department of Health and Human Services is a cabinet-level executive branch department of the U.S. federal government.

But where does the CDC get most of it's operating expenses from?

Our Partners: Corporations
The following includes a list of CDC Foundation corporate donors and partners over time:

PS I would paste it here but it would take 20 pages. How many hundred corporations do you think have funded the CDC/VAERS?

I have to agree 100% with snoopydawg: "I question anyone who trusts what government tells us."

Thousands of VAERS reports have already been deleted. Drug companies have a powerful vested interest in ensuring reports of death/injury will be kept as low as possible. Especially as they have pushed the envelope in getting these completely new class of vaccines to market with little to no testing. The majority of tests are scheduled to be concluded in 2023. Never before have vaccines been pushed out at the speed in which these were done. To add insult to injury, they are now working on vaccinating 4 to 11 year old children.

Drug companies don't seem especially moral or trustworthy in my estimation:

List of largest pharmaceutical settlements

What would you do to make 1,000 million dollars? That's what 9 of the people involved in the drug companies making these vaccines have currently made. That doesn't include about 50 to 100 other politicians and corporatists that have their fat fingers in this pie.

Normally we call a government in bed with corporations a form of Fascism.

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12 users have voted.

@CB that prior to a 1992 fed law which opened the door to outside funding, these alphabet health agencies were 100% taxpayer funded. Now they get a substantial portion of their budget from private corporate (Big Pharma/Big Vax) entities. A built-in conflict of interest -- the regulators getting paid by the entities they are supposed to regulate -- which Dr Fauci confidently represents.

On the VAERS reports, I believe it was the CHD site which reported that cases reported are "frozen" in time once submitted -- i.e., a report may show moderate side effects from the vaccine, the report is sent in, but later an updated diagnosis by the doctor is made of, say, GBS which is a very serious disease which can lead to death. But there is no way to update the case through VAERS, even if the case results in death or permanent disability. It remains officially as an event causing headaches or nausea or dizziness only.

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9 users have voted.

@wokkamile , you mention GBS, I assume you mean this: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/s....

Both the Mayo Clinic and the CDC website list the Covid vaccine as able to trigger GBS in some people. It is indeed a very serious disease. It was also cited as a vaccine injury during the Swine Flu vaccine rollout. It was in fact quite a scandal. Michael Lewis briefly noted the problem in his most recent book Premonition. In that book he also made it abundantly clear how and why the CDC has lost all credibility.

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@randtntx easier for me to just type "GBS".

and as I recall from reading some 1976 Swine Flu literature, it was as much the 500 reported cases of GBS that got people's attention and led to quickly shutting down the vaccine program, as it was the 45 or so reported deaths by vaccine.

But at least those cases were reported in the MSM of that time. Today, they are omitted from Covid coverage. I think TPTB of today learned a lesson from 1976 -- informing folks too much will just get 'em too riled up and then they go causing us all sorts of difficulties in rolling out our plans ...

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@wokkamile , I'm just glad you brought it up. As far as I am concerned, this is the important point

But at least those cases were reported in the MSM of that time. Today, they are omitted from Covid coverage.

If the data is being censored and hidden, then that is truly horrific. I would very much like an honest journalist to cover this story. Transparency is essential.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Cassiodorus

Nope so this and seat belt laws and everything else people throw up that is mandated is a strawman argument.

Look...squirrel.

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5 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@snoopydawg

Typically, as in pre COVID days, it has been estimated that only ten percent of the actual number of adverse events are reported. Most vaccines have the benefit of the presumption of safety, since most have been rigorously studied with years of follow up data which is solicited from study participants. This was not the case in vaccines rushed through the testing process at “Warp Speed”. Additionally, the FDA ‘suggested’ customary two year follow up surveillance of the original study participants by the drug companies, which was then quietly ignored.

A significant affirmative initiative is required for doctors or patients to submit reports to the VAERS system. Compounding this disincentive is the full bore media blitz about how safe and effective these vaccines are. Many don’t even think to consider if a recent medical issue might be linked to the “safe and effective” vaccine they received a week or two ago. This applies to physicians and patients both. These factors could only increase the number of unreported adverse events.

A case in point involving a 60+ year old with no significant underlying medical conditions, no associated COVID co-morbidities, and a healthy active lifestyle, gets her first jab. Two weeks later she suffers a significant heart attack and is hospitalized for several days. She seems to have recovered well enough returns home, and then, at the appointed time for her second dose she takes her second dose. Shortly thereafter she is back in the hospital with a second heart attack.

When I spoke to her while she was recovering from her second heart attack I asked her if she thought there might be a connection to her recent vaccinations? She replied “But the vaccines are safe.” I left it at that.

If you’re not looking for connections, you’re certainly not going find them…..or report them to VAERS.

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10 users have voted.

“Without a diversity of opinions, the discovery of truth is impossible.” - Alexander von Humboldt

@ovals49
The COVID vaccine is indeed safe.
I feel much better about it now.

Have any of you guys realized that everything that you accuse the COVID vaccine of being, also can apply to every other vaccine?
And that several of the links I made above that you are defending, are openly anti-Vax for ALL vaccines?

Needless to say, you lost me.

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CB's picture

@gjohnsit
that was done on the new mRNA vaccines?

How about the quality control of their manufacture?

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@CB
Look. You are wasting your time with me on this. I'm not going to become anti-vaxx under any circumstances. There is absolutely nothing you can say that will convince me.

Why? Because before vaccines human being generally didn't live past 40.
Now they often live to 80, and that is about 99% because of vaccines.

Game. Set. Match.

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CB's picture

@gjohnsit
Personally I would prefer more testing.

You response is more a pull out over a flub....

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snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

which I have stated NUMEROUS times. And these vaccines for Covid cannot be considered 'vaccines' since they do not immunize people from getting infected nor spreading it. Not like the childhood vaccines I got in childhood. I posted a great article in Oval's essay if you care to look and see why.

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7 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.

@CB one or two pct of vaccinees did a deep dive research on what these vaccines, so-called, actually are and what they actually do. I"m still trying to wrap my mind around it myself, as a complete non-scientific type, although it was enough for me to be skeptical when I learned how quickly they were rushed to market -- months -- instead of the usual years of testing.

Most people here and around the world it would seem are still too trusting in officialdom, esp in difficult areas of medicine and diseases which they (understandably) feel inadequate to question. And only a tiny percentage are aware of how powerful the Big Vax entities are, and the reach of their financial-political tentacles not only in this country but in most parts of the world.

All vaccines are not created equal. And these Covid vaccines are in a special category -- still inadequately tested, and showing clear signs of being ineffective to do the thing vaccines are supposed to do, namely stop the spread of the disease. This should not come as a complete surprise, as they were developed prior to the arrival of the Delta variant and offer only a narrow spectrum of protection.

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CB's picture

@wokkamile
is that they only offer a small percentage of the virus's protein to make antibodies. They are taken up by the cells in your body to synthetically manufacture just the protein that makes up the spike on the exterior of the virus.

The standard vaccines have been manufactured by using an entire killed or attenuated virus to present to your immune system so there are many more different proteins for them to work with.

A significant problem that has been occurring is that these spike proteins have been found to be the cause of related injury when they end up in small capillaries in the heart muscle and the brain. A common side effect has been headaches which is not a good sign. Here are the others:

  • Tiredness
  • Headache
  • Muscle pain
  • Chills
  • Fever
  • Nausea

Unfortunately some in the media have touted these side effects as proof the vaccine is working. I suggest that these need to be better evaluated for long term damage.

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7 users have voted.

@gjohnsit a rough approximation of reality, neither air-tight accurate nor wildly inaccurate in overestimation, and the CDC, per your cites, seems to be playing an obfuscation game with the two sets of numbers. IN fact there is some evidence (per a 2011 peer-reviewed study) that VAERS represents only 1 % of actual vaccine "adverse events", so it may actually dramatically underrepresent the situation.

These statements, which I find credible, are largely from recent remarks by Dr Pierre Kory and Dr Peter McCullough:

1) Most VAERS reports (perhaps 2/3) come from doctors or medical personnel

2) Each report takes about half-hour of time to complete, a non-trivial amount of time in a doctor's day.

3) There is a warning on the form stating that untruthful reports will result in a fine or imprisonment or both, which for doctors would also involve a loss of medical license.

4) As the reporting system is voluntary, it's unlikely a doctor would put his job on the line to casually or falsely make a report that isn't based on a solid medical judgment.

5) Any CDC investigation of an individual VAERS case would take a fair amount of time, and CDC doctors are not necessarily certified specialists in a relevant field of medicine.

As to the gross discrepancy in fatality numbers gjohnsit cites, some 11k difference, it's unclear how the second set of greatly reduced death figures was derived. And it's extremely unlikely it comes from a CDC investigation of the VAERS cases, which for thousands of cases would take years to complete (McCullough).

The CDC appears to want to have it both ways, seeking to appear honest and transparent with its VAERS reports, doing its proper job, while at the same time not wanting to upset its Big Vax sponsors by publishing a set of data that dramatically undercounts the already undercounted VAERS numbers. I am with those above who do not trust the CDC or any of the other alphabet, Big Pharma-influenced health agency entities.

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@gjohnsit

as of a week or so ago are actually about 14,500

They are updated weekly in a somewhat more accessible format at

https://openvaers.com

Want some light reading? How about VAERS ID: 1669584?

Patient - 28 year old female:

On 06-APR-2021, 4 hours after vaccination patient experienced loss of mobility and loss of bowel function, Patient stated that she was laying down and suddenly just could not get up and could not move. She also experienced nausea, vomiting, fever. The fever was 103 degrees Fahrenheit for 3 days. She could not control it or bring it down with anything. The fever stayed at 101 degrees Fahrenheit for another week. On the same day patient experienced eye tremors (the left eye is worse than her right. She has seen 3 eye doctors) and chest pain, she noted it felt like a pressure in the center. Patient stated that extreme fatigue started on the day that she received the vaccine and still remains today. She stated that it feels like being crushed like a boulder. She can not move most of the time and if she does anything she will be in bed for hours afterwards. In APR-2021, the patient experienced numbness, bilateral leg pain (hips to the ankle bone), it started after the numbness went away, patient describes it as a constant ache and touching the skin makes it feel fiery. She stated that the pain was previously severe, and has been a 5 out of 10. In APR-2021, the patient experienced dizziness and she stated that she still has it and it is mostly mild but can get severe if tries to overexert herself. She noted that she was told it could be related to the eye issues she is experiencing. Patient also experienced elevated heart rate, elevated blood pressure, tingling feet, patient described it as pins and needles. Patient also noted that she was shaking uncontrollably and very cold and sweaty.

As of August 30, after numerous exams and hospital admissions she was still experiencing severe symptoms that doctors can neither explain nor effectively treat...

Yet, as with every single report - no matter how detailed that I've looked at, the following is there at the bottom of the report:

This event(s) is considered unassessable. The event(s) has a compatible/suggestive temporal relationship, is unlabeled, and has unknown scientific plausibility. There is no information on any other factors potentially associated with the event(s).

Wonder how much interest there is in on the part of the PTB these events actually *being* assessed?

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CB's picture

I wonder how much it will cost?

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@CB actual ivermectin - this is their expensive version of not the same thing. I forget if it was Dr. Pierre Kory, Dr. Merik, or Dr. Chris Martensen that expressed this information.

The FLCCC is all about TREATMENT not shots. They are killing people by not providing treatment. Period.

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13 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

CB's picture

this weekend. Maybe we can get the country to legislate 4 day weekends. It sure would cut the death rate from the COV. Blum 3

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CB's picture

(Not verified at this time)

SARS-CoV-2 has now become endemic so it appears we will have to have yearly booster shots because it is so fucking leaky that the virus will mutate yearly just like influenza. (Which costs $45.00+/yr and is not covered by your standard medicare plans.)

The vax makers knew about ivermectin from day one of this plandemic and let the epidemic spread and fester.

A COVID-19 prophylaxis? Lower incidence associated with prophylactic administration of ivermectin
2020 Nov 28

Abstract

As COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) continues to rapidly spread throughout the world, the incidence varies greatly among different countries. These differences raise the question whether nations with a lower incidence share any medical commonalities that could be used not only to explain that lower incidence but also to provide guidance for potential treatments elsewhere. Such a treatment would be particularly valuable if it could be used as a prophylactic against SARS-CoV-2 (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2) transmission, thereby effectively slowing the spread of the disease while we await the wide availability of safe and effective vaccines. Here, we show that countries with routine mass drug administration of prophylactic chemotherapy including ivermectin have a significantly lower incidence of COVID-19. Prophylactic use of ivermectin against parasitic infections is most common in Africa and we hence show that the reported correlation is highly significant both when compared among African nations as well as in a worldwide context. We surmise that this may be connected to ivermectin's ability to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication, which likely leads to lower infection rates. However, other pathways must exist to explain the persistence of such an inhibitory effect after serum levels of ivermectin have declined. It is suggested that ivermectin be evaluated for potential off-label prophylactic use in certain cases to help bridge the time until a safe and effective vaccine becomes available.

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@CB that there are still a few honest doctors out there who early on have been trying to work the Covid problem, who didn't sit around passively waiting for CDC/FDA edicts, and that I remained active enough in Covid research to learn about their findings about treatment a few months ago. Wish I had learned about it even earlier, but better late, and I now have my IVM in hand, avoiding these funky and dangerous vaccines.

One worry I have is that TPTB will increasingly put the squeeze on doctors and pharmacists to make it very difficult for me to get my scheduled refills. Anecdotal reports already of both groups being pressured from above, pharmacists to not fill IVM prescriptions, and doctors being threatened with an investigation by health authorities if they prescribe it for Covid. Meanwhile Rachel Maddow and the loyal corporatist MSMers continue to dutifully misrepresent IVM's true effectiveness.

And pushing back against these scary vaccines, expressing a skeptical pov, can get you blocked or banned in major social media platforms, as happened to me recently.

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10 users have voted.

@CB
Why do anti-vaxx people believe in ivermectin?
Shouldn't you reject that too, since you don't believe in vaccines?
Shouldn't you continue to reject the idea of vaccines for COVID since for so may months the story was "It's just the flu!" Thus any and all vaccines were unnecessary?

As far as I can tell, the only consistency is rejection of whatever the government says.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

@gjohnsit , because it seems you have a chip on your shoulder, a very negative attitude about the vaccine and those who don't want it. Vaccine drama is dividing this country and the vaccinated are in such fear they won't listen to anyone about anything.

So, the point is that there are TREATMENTS instead of shots. That is what ivermectin is. If you prefer shots, go for it. I prefer TREATMENT. We must stop fighting about this and putting other people down if they prefer TREATMENT over shots.

Check out the FLCCC and inform/educate yourself on the matter - on ivermectin - on TREATMENT. If you don't do the research, you have no room to criticize.

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10 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

@Raggedy Ann

because it seems you have a chip on your shoulder, a very negative attitude about the vaccine and those who don't want it.

I'm not in love with any of the vaccines. I waited about 6 months before I got mine.

Vaccine drama is dividing this country and the vaccinated are in such fear they won't listen to anyone about anything.

Vaccine drama IS dividing the country. There is no doubt about that, and I think it's stupid.
It reminds me of how conservatives have fits whenever someone says "cancel culture", as if this should be important.
I think that if you're one of the hundreds of thousands of people getting evicted right now, and staring homelessness in the face, I'm willing to bet that you aren't all that concerned with being "needle-raped" (as my at one time sane friend recently called it).

So, the point is that there are TREATMENTS instead of shots. That is what ivermectin is. If you prefer shots, go for it. I prefer TREATMENT. We must stop fighting about this and putting other people down if they prefer TREATMENT over shots.

If you want to take ivermectin then go for it. Take it every day.
Hell, if you want to do cocaine to treat COVID, go for it. I would if I could afford it.
That's not the issue with me. The issues I see is 1) the contradictory messages I'm getting, and 2) how people have blown this completely out of proportion.

I'm not looking to stomp on anyone's freedom to self-medicate.
If your idea of freedom is to treat diseases with heroin and vodka, or with Vitamin C and tofu, that's your business.

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CB's picture

@gjohnsit
adds credence to your argument? Why are you relying on these devaluation tactics?

If your idea of freedom is to treat diseases with heroin and vodka, or with Vitamin C and tofu, that's your business.

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5 users have voted.

@CB
I respect your right to choose, but I don't respect your choice.

This is why.
I worked for UCSF, one of the premier medical schools in the nation, for 8 years.
I did IT work, not medical research. But I worked around these people (multiple Nobel prize winners) and they were brilliant. You almost feel a buzz of electrical energy in the air from the sheer power of their brains.
When they "talked shop" the subject matter went so far over my head that I felt ignorant to a degree that I've only experienced a few times in my life.

What I'm seeing here is a segment of society telling these same brilliant people that they know better. That medical science isn't an actual science.
I'm not taking any of this personal. I'm really not.

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3 users have voted.
CB's picture

@gjohnsit
I see credentialed medical investigators not only being denigrated but actually deplatformed by the media and politicians if they should go against the status quo. The majority have learned to self censure and keep their views to themselves.

Unfortunately the entire program has been politicized from day one. Just look at the difference for when Trump was president and now that Biden is in Washington.

What I'm seeing here is a segment of society telling these same brilliant people that they know better. That medical science isn't an actual science.

But science constantly evolves. There is no such beast as "THE science" which we are being told we must obey. Brilliant scientists are known to change their viewpoints depending on the evidence - if they didn't we could hardly call them brilliant. If debate is stifled even the smartest become dumb.

I think you may be interested in the following. It gives a great visual depiction of the current situation.

US COVID-19 cases and deaths by state

How is the nation faring against COVID-19, both overall and at a state level? Get the answers here, with data on hotspots and infection rates. This map tracks the history of coronavirus cases

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7 users have voted.

@gjohnsit Nobel Prize winners,

But I worked around these people (multiple Nobel prize winners) and they were brilliant.

the two scientists who invented Ivermectin back in the late 70s both received the NP in 2015 for their work in creating that drug, one which the World Health Organization has put on its list of Essential Medicines. A very useful invention for humanity. I should think those scientists should also count as brilliant and worthy of great respect.

CB noted that Science is not one monolithic body of people all agreeing in lockstep. Currently we have a group, smallish of course, of brave dissenting doctors -- some of whom are leaders in their fields, a few of whom are near the top in total number of peer-reviewed published papers -- all of whom have expressed serious reservations about the Covid vaccines a/o shown in their clinical and published work that IVM and several other treatments are plenty effective in combatting Covid.

I gather that many here are familiar with some of their names. One of them, Robert Malone, now a vaccine skeptic (but who took the vaccines early on, for work purposes) was a key figure in creating the underlying mRNA vaccine platform. Dr Geert Vanden Bossche also deserves mention as an expert in vaccines warning early about not introducing a vaccine during the middle of a pandemic, precisely to avoid the problem of mutations and variants.

The above small group of doctors, many of whom work with Covid patients trying to find a solution, deserves great respect too. I consider their contributions to science and medicine greatly exceed whatever bureaucrats Fauci and Wallensky and Collins have contributed to society. But I don't take it to the level of blind worship, or treating them as gods walking among us. All are human and are fallible. All are capable of being corrupted, as other scientists are, including those who run some of the more well-known peer-review journals and those who head our public health agencies.

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9 users have voted.

@gjohnsit (and CB and you can hash out the rest), I am not an "anti-vaxxer". I am anti-THESE vaccines. Big difference. I have all my vaxxes, with a tetanus due in the next year, which vac I intend to check out first of course. My kids have all theirs. It's true, I have always declined the flu vaccine, and in the past 20 yrs have only one mod flu to show for it, which I can link confidently to a period of high stress in my life when I was getting little sleep, so the immune system was down.

Second, and again anecdotally (I don't have a cite for this, just recalling a rebel doctor's statement), these Covid vaccines account by themselves for far more deaths and serious illnesses than all other vaccines given for other diseases in the last 20 yrs, per VAERS, the CDC's own reporting system The words HIGH RISK came immediately to mind as I saw how quickly these Covid vaccines were rolled out. Clearly to me, the dark forces of Big Vax were working their magic behind the scenes at the CDC and FDA and NIH and etc, with Dr Fauci as their front man and the corporate media as their Mighty Wurlitzer.

Second, didn't we just go through a 5-yr period where the MSM constantly lied to us, backed and encouraged by a number of former gov't officials, re Russiagate? Wasn't there a near-total media blackout of dissenting voices, much as now with the Covid vaccines? Does the aggressive and ongoing censorship of skeptical voices in the MSM and on social media platforms make you just a tad concerned that you are being lied to by those wielding the censorship button?

And if the Covid vaccines are such a slam dunk, such a no-brainer as health and media officialdom would have it, why then the fear of an open discussion to deal with skeptics' concerns? Could it be bc health officials don't want people to know of legit, safe, effective and cheap alternatives to the vaccines?

And so on ...

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@wokkamile
There are many things to be skeptical of the media and government for. But there are limits.
Now before you go off on me, allow me to explain.

Taken to the extreme of disbelief, skepticism and lack of trust, you will find:
1. the people who didn't believe in the Moon landing
2. the Flat Earth society
3. anti-vaxxers
etc.
As someone more clever than me pointed out, stop lights can be a government konspiracy if you want it to be.
Even now the line between "I don't believe in the COVID vaccine" and "anti-vaxxers" is very blurry. You can deny it, but it seems very clear to me.

So when do I chose to disbelieve? When there is an obvious profit motive. That's a big one, but it's not the only one.

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CB's picture

@gjohnsit

Why do anti-vaxx people believe in ivermectin? Shouldn't you reject that too, since you don't believe in vaccines?

False dichotomy. Ivermectin has decades of study where it has been successfully used in billions of animals and humans as a safe and effective prophylactic against disease. In fact, the drug manufacturers will soon be releasing patented drugs that works on the VERY SAME MECHANISM as ivermectin.

Shouldn't you continue to reject the idea of vaccines for COVID since for so may months the story was "It's just the flu!" Thus any and all vaccines were unnecessary?

Again, false dichotomy. Stop putting words in my mouth. I neither inferred nor said that.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

He couldn't breathe....

Family says Alabama man was turned away from 43 packed ICUs before dying

By their votes ye shall know them.... and know their fate.

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8 users have voted.

Add some Truth to your daily news. CGTN — See the difference!

@Pluto's Republic

and you will get some idea about what is filling up ICU units (where that is actually occurring) and what is likely to befall you should you end up in one:

Stew Peters interviews whistle blowing nurse:

https://rumble.com/vm936v-whistleblower-nurse-destroys-delta-narrative-vaccinated-patients-fill-hospt.html

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5 users have voted.
CB's picture

@Blue Republic

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CB's picture

@CB
of Israeli ICU doctor swamped by vaccinated patients on life support.

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gulfgal98's picture

The state of Florida webiste for tracking of COVID is completely useless ever since DeSantis mandated only weekly aggregated statistics and those statistics are no longer indicative of what is happening within each county separately.

Up until July, I could go to the state website every day and find out exactly how things were going in my home county. Now, I cannot even know how many deaths occurred in my home county or any other county, whether in the aggregate or by the week. Deaths are reported on a statewide basis only.

Before I go any further, I have seen how this essay has devolved once again into factional arguments. For the record, I refuse to allow myself to be dragged into the merits of vaccines, Ivermectin, masks or whatever else people here want to argue. It has been an argument that has nearly forced me away from this site permanently. Regardless of what anyone here argues, it has become obvious that no one is going to change their minds or my mind.

Back on the subject of the state of Florida's COVID reporting, I will say that DeSantis is NOT doing the citizens of the state of Florida any favors by with holding and hiding valuable information from them by which they can track what is happening in their own locales and make informed decisions. Florida is a huge state with very different populations and politics throughout it.

DeSantis has taken away all decision making regarding steps that local government may want to take regarding COVID 19 even though Florida is supposed to be a strong home rule state. If DeSantis can dictate all these things, why do we even need local governments who may better represent the will of those people who elected them versus a governor who barely won a statewide election system?

And BTW, I could not find any information on COVID statistics via my local health department either. This is censorship of extremely important information that the public has the right and deserves to know. What we now get is watered down, meaningless pablum in Florida.

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10 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 FL and DeSantis have been cooking the Covid books. Lying and cheating are sort of par for the course for Rs. But deception by numbers and carefully massaged messages has also been happening at the fed public health level from the beginning. DeSantis is just playing a smaller but similar game.

ON the chat in this thread, it's pretty mild-to-moderate as far as intensity of disagreements. To be expected when such important and contentious issues are being discussed.

What is refreshing of course, for someone long away from this board who drifted over to social media platforms in recent times, is that this remains a welcome oasis in a desert landscape of constricted discussion for people to express different and often minority points of view. No heavy hand of the Censor that I see at other places like YT, FB, Twitter and Nextdoor. It's really shocking to see freedom of speech being squelched in these Big Platform places, often with liberals leading the way, and now on vaccine mandates. Even the ACLU has fallen in line on being okay with people being coerced into taking the vaccine.

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@wokkamile @wokkamile Denigrating anyone's perspective on the SARS-CoV-2 events, is not going to help anyone.

I have always taken all the vaccines, including flu and pneumonia offered each year at work.

Now that we have lived in dense mold in our house before it was rebuilt, and in an apartment with unexhausted gas furnace flue gases, and finally a backed up septic tank dumping Hydrogen sulfide into our house, our allergist with the agreement of our central doctor have told us we would be taking great risks getting the shots. We have had to agree.

This does not make us anti-vaccine advocates. But we look very carefully at the small amount of protein (the Spike 1) involved in the mRNA shots and realize that developing antibodies to just a small part of the whole virus makes us vulnerable to surviving mutations to other parts of the virus. We cannot afford to create antibodies in excess to what we need for fighting the virus in whole.

We are treating and using the FLCCC protocols. It is the best we can do for now.

I thank you for reading and understanding that the not taking of shots can be extremely nuanced and very individual whether it is physical or other reasons.

ETA: Eric Clapton gave it a go.

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8 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

@Dawn's Meta words. And yes, important not to stereotype people on either side of the vaccine question. I try to reserve my ire for the decision makers and their co-conspirators in the media.

Yes, heard about Clapton. A few weeks ago, the CHD site published the video testimony of 70s well-known actress Sally Kirkland, who suffered terribly, and continues to suffer, from the Moderna vaccines she took 6 months ago.

CHD holds some controversial views, and some I don't agree with, but on Covid it is one place in the overall media, even as it's not MSM, where one can find these personal stories of vaccine "adverse events". You won't find them in the corp media, but you will find only positive vaccine stories, stories about the unvaccinated who get sick and die or otherwise take up beds for more worthy candidates in the hospital rooms, along with the usual fake news stories about IVM.

You also won't find the alarming Covid VAERS numbers mentioned in the msm. CHD regularly updates on those, and thereby provides a valuable public service. In 1976, the Swine Flu vaccine disaster, the msm did report on AEs like GBS and deaths -- back then, it took only 45 deaths and 500 in the GBS category to alarm the public and shut down the vaccine program. Compare with the non-reporting of today re VAERS and the tens of thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of other AEs which 98% of the public is unaware of.

The coordinated pro-vaccine propaganda program is shocking in its strength and effectiveness. But I'm not sure it's safe for Democracy.

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gulfgal98's picture

@wokkamile I have tried very hard to never denigrate anyone's perspective here.

What I stated is how the divisions over this pandemic have affected me personally.

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4 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 you did. I didn't detect any denigrating of others specifically. Perhaps you meant your above to be a response to Dawn??

I was responding to yours to comment about keeping this place as a forum for free and open discussion of important issues facing us all. You may choose to abstain on some issues, and that's fine. I just wanted to note the stark contrast with the free speech seen here as compared to the big social media platforms, where Big Censorship rules. The few remaining free speech places, being open and welcoming to different ideas, will always though have the occasional mild-moderate dust ups. It comes with the territory.

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Dawn's Meta's picture

@gulfgal98 are well. You always have been a voice of reason and good critical thinking. Please put up with us a little while longer.

Take care.

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4 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

@gulfgal98
That DeSantis is restricting information being reported is NOT an indication that he has this under control.

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I only skimmed it, but thought it might be appropriate to this vaccine discussion.

https://news.yahoo.com/moderna-analysis-those-vaccinated-last-223130015....

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2 users have voted.