Caitlin Writes about What's Wrong with Modern Feminism
Equality in murder. Cool.
— TheDORIANGRAE 2077 (@TheDORIANGRAE) January 4, 2019
This Is Everything That Is Wrong With Mainstream Feminism
Outlets like MSNBC and Politico have been excitedly running headlines titled “The military-industrial complex is now run by women” and “How women took over the military-industrial complex”. Apparently four of America’s five top defense contractors are now women, whose names I will not bother to learn or report on because I do not care.
These headlines are being derided by skeptics of the establishment mindset for the cartoonish self-parody of the corporate liberal mindset that they so clearly are, and rightly so. Pretty much everything in American mainstream liberalism ultimately boils down to advancing mass murder, exploitation and ecocide for profit while waving a “yay diversity” banner so that the NPR crowd can feel good about themselves while signing off on it. But the fact that these stories exist and have an audience can also be blamed more specifically on the failures of mainstream feminism.
A lot of men (and the occasional cultishly servile woman) like to bitch about the problem with modern feminism as though it is something that hurts men, threatens men, demonizes men, or robs men of their place in society or anything else they feel entitled to. This is all dopey nonsense which amounts to nothing other than a childish temper tantrum over men losing control over women that they never should have had in the first place; it’s people whining about losing their slaves. That imaginary piffle is not what is wrong with mainstream feminism. What is wrong with mainstream feminism is exemplified perfectly in a mass media parade celebrating the rise of women to the top of the most depraved industry on earth.
The problem that true feminism seeks to address is not that there aren’t enough women at the top of the corporate ladder, or that Americans refused to elect a woman to do the bombing, exploiting and oppressing in 2016. The problem has always been that we’re trying to value women with a value system created by a few very powerful men. By leaving in place the value system created by patriarchy (i.e. capitalism), we are now valuing women but only for their ability to play men’s games. Nobody has ever become a billionaire by being a mother, even the very best mother in the world, and nobody ever will because capitalism was designed by men, for men, to value men’s qualities. This has created a species-threatening imbalance because inequality is baked in to the system. When men reluctantly allowed women out of their house-shaped cages in the sixties, they did so on the condition that they would not change a thing about themselves. Women could play, but it was the women who had to change. As usual.
Comments
excellent article, just lost a lengthy comment to it
and have no 'bock' to rewrite it. Just saying that she hit the nail on the head with it. She has the hammer ... and I would want one too.
[video:https://youtu.be/qXBbIZlokB4]
https://www.euronews.com/live
That's a mighty funning looking hammer Pete is holding, there.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
So now women can be Lords of Capital
and serve the Market and the Holy Profits. Goody.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Yep... don't need to change the system...
Just put a couple token plates at the table and watch the underclass kill each other to join.
Because here I was all set to write a rebuttal to the minor points I disagreed with, when I realized, that there's no point. Have your delusions of what is going on in my head, whatever, I don't need to correct that. What I need to correct is the system that thrives on escalating tensions.
So, with that in mind, I disconnect. I'm not responsible for anybody else's behavior but my own and those I choose to associate with. I cannot change the world, nor would I try. I find that people who try to do tend to kill a lot of people in one way or another.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I wouldn't give anyone a plug nickle for what is called
feminism today. In the 60s, it was throwing off shackles. Today, it is about having the power to shackle others.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I only have two thumbs and this comment gets both-UP!
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
I like this part . . .
It's part of the argument for universal basic income. Paying care givers. The Leap Manifesto (leapmanifesto.org) included a plan for it, however there doesn't seem to be anything happening on the website. I wish I could find it, but economist Richard Wolff said in an interview that there is a high level of substitance abuse among women of my generation because basically they were expected to do two jobs . . . mom and outside the home work.
My husband had the ability to retire at age 51, so he became Mr. Mom and I continued to teach. He took the kids to school and to the park after school - stuff like that - but being the good old boy (his mom was their slave) he didn't embrace most of the other mom chores. No meaness on his part . . . just didn't know how. Wore me out though.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I think watching my Mother and her friends
try and raise children and make a living back in the 1970's made a deep impression on me. Perhaps seeing them struggle so, along with other issues I had about making that kind of commitment, kept me from having children of my own. I don't regret my decision and was always vaguely amused when men told me that I'd change my mind once I found "Mr. Right". An observation that seemed steeped in romantic ideology rather than what was actually happening in real life for most of the women I knew.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Yeah . . . it's not for everybody . . .
I was 41 and 44 when I had my kids. The actual natural childbirth thing was not hard on my bod, but it's clear I am older and more tired than other younger moms. My daughter, 19, says she definitely doesn't want to think about kids until she is 35.
I see the role of homemaker as very important, not necessarily a female role but best shared. When I was working I had to hire a bunch of the homemaker stuff. I actually enjoy being home and doing it myself now.
A couple of my best friends happily never had kids. They have been beautifully really important to my children.
Yes . . . it is absolutely romantic ideology!!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
It's a shame biology
Limits women to having children at an age when we are either still trying figuring ourselves out, or while we are trying to make a living.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
"Shame Biology"
Grievous.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I think I was about 5 or 6
. . . as I watched two aunts, my grandma, a teen female cousin, and my mom frantically working in my grandma's kitchen to get Thanksgiving food on the table, as their male counterparts all sat on their asses, not just watching the game, but chiming in every few minutes to ask if it was ready yet. I was too young to actually help, rather than hinder, so I stood there, and decided what I was watching was some serious bullshit.
None of the men were lazy. They all worked hard at their paying jobs, but so did all the women in the kitchen except for my teen cousin and one aunt. The men weren't the ones who declared all meal prep, and cleaning were "women's work", at least it was not something that was ever discussed in front of me. No, the matriarchs, through the years, in my family, set it up that way.
Your mother-in-law never taught your husband how to do things for himself, just like my great-grandma did to my grandpa, and my grandma perpetuated it by not teaching him, either. My mom and the other "working" aunt got help with things like laundry and dishes from their husbands; and years and years later, my grandpa would even help with dishes. It's better in society than it used to be, but it took a pretty long time.
I made sure my son could cook and clean up after himself, rather than be "served" by someone who's just as tired as he is. As soon as he was tall enough to reach the controls, the Laundry Fairy moved out of my house, and he did his own laundry.
I think the vast majority of men, today, are more than happy to help, and do things around the house, provided they were not trained by their mothers to be helpless. Not a lot of Archie Bunkers left, at least I hope not. Sure hope no one is raising any Ediths, too!
Raising Little Boys and Girls
I saw a little boy at our store no older than 4 years old quietly stand beside his baby sisters stroller until his mother was finished at the check out stand. When I remarked on how well behaved he was and asked her how she managed to get him to do that, she smiled and said, 'A lot of practice".
Of course this kind of behavior is more of the exception then the rule. More often than not children his age fall into one of two categories: they are either very interactive when they get to the register asking a lot of questions, or they are pulling things off the shelves and running around while their mothers repeatedly yell at them.
Operant conditioning requires a consistency and a set of personal skills that I think many parents are either too distracted or insecure to acquire.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Isn't it cool to see?
My kids and I were complimented on their behavior a few times, by perfect strangers (once on a plane), and I've done the same.
Side note: My son, at about 12, sitting in the waiting room for a school physical at the Dr's office, actually leaned over to me and whispered, "Sounds like somebody needs an ass whooping" because of a little boy torturing everyone else in the tiny waiting room with his fit throwing screeching, and his inept, spineless mother. (He was referring to a spanking by the kid's mom -- we call 'em ass whoopins in my family.)
Hahahaha!
Yeah, disciplining children can be a creative skill many parents don't possess. The same can also be said for many dog owners. Sadly, when dogs grow up and become unmanageable because of behavioral problems not related to biology, many owners just give them away.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
My mother in law did not teach him skills . . .
But thankfully he has learned some on his own. Just brought me supper in bed. Kids are learning to cook on their own and doing some laundry, cleaning, and maintaining the house.
It's all coming around. Slowly.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Nice
What did he bring ya?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Ribs
Leftovers but still tasty.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Love Caitlin...
but she gets this wrong:
On the contrary Caitlin. The casual and callous dismissal of the very real and heartfelt critiques of many men towards the divisive and demeaning message of modern feminism is EXACTLY why the movement has lost significant ground over the last three decades.
Somewhere along the way, feminists decided that they could gain more power by shaming men into acquiescence than by using more positive methods of persuasion. In the process, the movement has not only lost many male (and female) allies, but continues to give its enemies all the ammunition it needs to discredit and ridicule important issues of equality and reproductive freedom.
Chasing otherwise sympathetic men away from the movement by diminishing and demeaning their opinions is no way to generate the necessary support for change. Unless feminists ditch the mean girl act and start actually trying to court those outside their core constituency, progress on their issues will continue to languish.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
It sounds like you're saying . . .
. . . women are not getting all men on board because they aren't being sweet enough in their pitch to you.
Isn't that a lot like saying (just a fer-instance) that banksters and corporate CEOs are not doing more to alleviate income inequality because we plebes aren't kissing their asses enough?
Men aren't relinquishing power because they benefit from holding onto that power, just as those bonus-huckstering CEOs do. Men screwed women over, for millennia. Why the fuck should women be nice to men to reverse that trend? Seems to me that women need more pitchforks.
Well said
I don't think I'd have been as polite. Thank you.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
It was a challenge.
This wasn't my first, or second, phrasing.
You didn't convince me.
Try being a bit meaner next time. Maybe that will help your cause gain more adherents.
Or, you know, not.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
What would, then?
What would get you on board? What tone, voice, speech, action, displayed by women would get you to say, "You're right; you've been treated as a class lower than men for centuries. How can I help turn that around?"
I'm already fully on board...
in terms of gender equality and reproductive freedom.
Why insult me for it just because I don't happen to have a vagina?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Who insulted your vaginalessness?
I know, not a real word, but still. Who insulted you for not having a vagina?
There does
happen to be a (I assume)Sarcastic country song with the line," it's hard to kiss those lips at night, that chew your ass off all day long".
Honey, vinegar
Bees?
issue is very similar to the one I have; these Different 'movements' all need allies in the 'camp' of their 'oppressors', yet very seldom are we 'engaged with' as apposed to being scolded, being screamed at, or being ignored.
My point being, while men Have run 'roughshod' over women(and continue to do so), if women just want to be the new 'rulers' instead of true equality, equity, or whatever other term one would use for 'cooperation', 'sharing', 'power structure' between the sexes, then what's the point?
I'm all for women taking charge, grabbing the reins of power-just not if its replacing male psychopaths with female ones ala Her, or four of the top five defense contractors now run by women.
The System needs to Change
I THINK we can agree on That Much. Where it goes from here we All Gotta Work On.
I'm Willing.
Bring a cudgel and I walk. I can bang my head well enough on my own, thanks.
fuck
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Why wouldn't you be polite?
What did I say that made you want to be rude?
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Not even close.
Unless you think all men are banksters and CEOs, which is patently absurd.
But hey, keep attacking potential allies with nonsensical analogies.
The Pussy Grabber thanks you.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I'm not sure I agree that either method is viable
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
The important point Caitlin makes in my mind is . . .
. . . is that we need to change from capitalism to a work-together society. In view of the climate situation, we must do that anyway.
I experienced a glimpse of that in childhood growing up in an upper-midwestern farm family. Farmers or not in my extended family wives and husbands were feisty but worked as a team. My mom was educated but chose to be part of the farm operation. The teamwork thing wasn't perfect but cool.
Currently in our society the male/female dynamic is fucked up. For the reasons both you and Caitlin mentioned. There is tremendous pain on both sides.
Yes . . . and no shaming! Unproductive, destructive, the lowest of negative emotions.
All we can do is love and heal in our sphere of influence. Our family, our friends, our neighbors.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
True.
But you don't get to a 'work-together society' by diminishing and ridiculing the feelings of half that society.
Caitlin sees the goal but she's clueless about the path.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I disagree
That Caitlyn’s clueless about How to get there.
Don’t we All have to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks?
Just not at each other.
fuck
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
This isn't helpful:
If Caitlin thinks this type of ridiculous rhetoric (slaves? really?) is going to gain more feminist support among men, she truly is clueless.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I don't believe you are her audience
And I don't believe she is trying to convince you of anything if you are already on board with gender equality. I also don't believe those who are not on board are her audience either.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Such an exclusive club, ain't it?
Nobody's her audience unless they agree with her on everything.
OK then.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
HAH! Youre
shittin' me, right? I don't know Where or How you roll for work, but that is Exactly what I've heard from guys; Damn woman needs to get off her ass and do some laundry, feed the kid, clean the house, insert chore here; grown(supposedly) men absolutely amazed that I do laundry when we work through a weekend and don't make it home for two or more weeks.
Of course, these same guys will tell me that the govt can't Create jobs-as we work on a Govt Created Job-so no bonus for thinking skills with a lot of them.
Maybe it's not couched as civilly as some would have it, but then, it wouldn't be Caitlyn.
Ymmv
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
And here I thought Archie Bunkers were almost gone.
Guess I was wrong. You work with some!
At least you weren't raised to be helpless, like my grandpa and your coworkers.
Don't get
me wrong, they're shirt off they're own back types for you, and they understand society is changing and they gotte learn to roll, but They Don't Know How! They(We) trying, fucking it up as often as not, unfortunately, but hey! Ya don't walk without face planting on occasion. And they're not Stupid. Uneducated in many ways, yes. Ignint' make a stone look soft at times, but Not unintelligent.
Edit to add; when I was ten my Ma told me at least one man in her life was gonna know how to do his own laundry. Never forgot, or stopped doing my own. Hell! With my work, nobody else Wants their clothes washed with mine. Can't blame 'em.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Spoken like a true ally
Thank you.
I'm trying,
see my face plant comment above.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Thank You
But next time I'd appreciate it if you'd address what I am saying instead of making up a bunch of strawmen stereotypes and congratulating yourself on knocking them over.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I thought
I DID address the 'slave rhetoric'. It's called HYPERBOLE for a reason.
But oookay, I still like discussing things with you. And I'm not out to slice&dice anybody.
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
You know what I think?
No, you don't.
And I'm gonna leave it that way.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Because all you have to offer...
is mean, nasty invective marinated for decades in IP divisiveness?
Probably best then.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
DUDE!
Take a binger and Relax. . . I'm thinking we're talking Past each other, not To each other.
No offense intended Or taken, ya dig?
peace
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
kinda surprising how angry a guy can get about
what he thinks i think, when he doesn't know what i think.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.