Is Bernie Sanders the AntiChrist?

Just how evil is Bernie Sanders?
Can anyone who wants universal health care and free college be anything other than "the lawless one who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved?"

The answer appears to be "yes".

The problem is that socialists like failed 2016 Democrat presidential candidate Bernie Sanders aspire to replace America’s capitalist system with a socialist one equivalent to, say, the socialist nightmare of Venezuela, one of the most oppressive regimes on Earth. And this rightly frightens Langone.

Ken Langone is the founder of Home Depot, who has written a book called “I Love Capitalism”.
In this book he proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is End Of Days. Or something like that.

He wanted to show gratitude, to inspire the young—“If I can make it, everyone can!”—and he wanted young voters to understand socialism is not the way. “In 2016 I saw Bernie Sanders and the kids around him. I thought: This is the antichrist! We have the greatest engine in the world.” The wealthy have an absolute obligation to help others: “Where would we be if people didn’t share their wealth? I got 38 kids on Bucknell scholarships. They’re all colors of the rainbow; some are poor kids, rough around the edges. It’s capitalism!” He famously funds NYU/Langone Medical Center.

He worries about the future of economic freedom and sees the selfishness of some of the successful as an impediment. “Are there people who are greedy, who do nothing for anyone? Yes.” They should feel shame. If the system goes down they’ll be part of the reason. “But don’t throw the baby out with the bath water!”

The WSJ says this guy is a "non-idiot billionaire" and that millennials have "never heard capitalism defended".

Right.
What world do these people live in? Let's take these one at a time.

1) No, not "everyone" can make it in capitalism. Capitalism cannot function without most people losing.

2) Where would we be if people didn’t share their wealth? Gee, I don't know. With a society like we have today? Where billionaires are totally cut off from the rest of society, and all the levers of government captured by the wealthy? Basically a society of haves and have nots.

3) As for the people who are greedy, who do nothing for anyone. They don't feel shame, and they never will. That's sort of the point.

4) If the system goes down we are all f*cked, at least in the short-term. That's why Bernie Sanders wants to save it, even for rich f*cks like you.

5) Finally, and here's the big one, your program to help a few dozen poor kids isn't capitalism! If you think it is capitalism then it only proves that someone can become a bazillionaire while still being ignorant about basic economics.

I'm consistently amazed how the most dedicated defenders of capitalism seem to know the least about it.
Do they know anything about Adam Smith other than the "Invisible Hand"? 99% of the time, no.

The same goes for Marx. Everyone hates him, no one has ever read him, except maybe a paragraph from the Manifesto. They are usually unaware that Marx never actually detailed when and how socialism will replace capitalism, and what that political system would look like.

As for a real-world example, the favorite example of modern capitalism is the iPhone.

The world's biggest company may have more cash on hand than many actual governments. But the technological breakthroughs behind its iconic iPods, iPhones, and iPads were funded almost exclusively by government agencies — and by one particular segment of one particular country's government.

As the chart below demonstrates, there's little in these devices that doesn't owe its existence to the US Department of Defense in some form or another.

Later devices saw investments from the Navy for their GPS capabilities, and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) funded Siri. In fact, the parent company of Siri's creator, which was acquired by Apple in 2010, still gets over half of its revenue from the Department of Defense, according to a report they published earlier this year.

iphone.jpg

Maybe one day, we'll have a real debate, and honest examination of our economic system.
But if even the winners of that system are ignorant of how it works, then that day is very far in the future.
Instead what get is half-truths.
For instance, whenever a socialist government fails it's always the fault of socialism. However, when a capitalist government fails it's NEVER the fault of capitalism.
When people starve under socialism it's the fault of socialism. But when people starve under capitalism, it's the fault of something else.
When there is a scientific breakthrough in a capitalist country, it happened because capitalism encouraged it. When there is a scientific breakthrough in a socialist country, it happened DESPITE the economic system.

Every debate about the economic system comes with strong prejudices and bullsh*t assumptions that effectively block any honest search for the truth.

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57 users have voted.

Comments

detroitmechworks's picture

Are there SOME kings who are abusive? Sure. That doesn't mean that we should take away the power of kings because SOME kings abuse their power. I personally am a GOOD king, and I can prove it by these peasants I have sponsored in the arts in order to sing my praises.

After all, why would you want to get rid of art? You must hate all artists.

/snark

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36 users have voted.

You can't expect to wield Supreme Military power, just cause some corporate tosser lobbed a contract at you!

thanatokephaloides's picture

@detroitmechworks

The asshole isn't defending Capitalism, he's defending Feudalism. Are there SOME kings who are abusive? Sure. That doesn't mean that we should take away the power of kings because SOME kings abuse their power. I personally am a GOOD king, and I can prove it by these peasants I have sponsored in the arts in order to sing my praises.

/snark

punctuation adjusted for format change

He must be a King!
Why?

Wink

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8 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Azazello's picture

of In These Times. It's an interview with David Graeber, author of Bullshit Jobs: A Theory.
Is Your Job Bullshit ?


Your explanation suggest capitalism is a less totalizing system than some might think.

DG: It’s rapidly transforming into something that might not even be capitalism, though it might be just as bad. When we think of something as totalizing, we assume that to get from one totalizing thing to another you need some kind of fundamental break. But historical change tends to be somewhat gradual and complicated. At what point does the other stuff mixed in with capitalism mean it’s not even capitalism anymore?

I remember having this argument with conventional Marxists about the transition from feudalism to capitalism. Okay, say that capitalism started around 1500. And the Marxists insist that capitalism is organized around wage labor. But wage labor was marginal until the industrial revolution, around 1750. How can you say that wage labor is central to capitalism if, for 250 years, it was a tiny element?

And of course the Marxist will say, “Well you’re not thinking dialectically. From 1500 to 1750, people were in a process that was going to lead to wage labor, they just didn’t realize it yet.” And I realized, wait a minute, if that’s the case, how do we know that we are even in capitalism now? Maybe we are already 100 years into a process leading us to something and we don’t even know what it is. By that logic, capitalism could have ended in like 1950, and we’ll only fully know what replaced it in 2175.

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@Azazello
Then involuntary unemployment wouldn't be a thing.

Capitalism will go away just like Feudalism did. We will evolve beyond it.

Just sayin'.

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Azazello's picture

@gjohnsit
like to say that we have "a capitalist system". Opponents would like to replace this system with another, maybe a socialist system. I don't think there are any systems at all, just different societies with different sets of laws and traditions which all have aspects that may be described as capitalist or socialist. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I think I may be pregnant with an essay, or constipated as it may be.

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mimi's picture

@Azazello

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@Azazello Economists like to present their work as a science, like physics or celestial mechanics. It doesn't really touch on society, people, except as labor or consumer. In that way it seems like were cogs in a machine devoid of humanity. Which is kind of the opposite of what you said, but I don't know....we're so infused with "capitalism" how can we even begin to look at what it's done to us? Like the idea of Terraforming we've been econoformed.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit

the last time around.

What’s going to be the catalyst this time? Nuclear war?

EDIT: Feath/Death

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2 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pluto's Republic's picture

...what percentage of the profits am I earning in return for my investment?

The same question holds true for pharmaceuticals.

Can we earmark those dividends to use for the benefit of the People. Like funding health care? Or would these companies like to Buy Back our shares? I'm open to that.

If government money was used merely to pad the profits of private businesses, doesn't that have a different name than "capitalism?"

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@Pluto's Republic

If government money was used merely to pad the profits of private businesses, doesn't that have a different name than "capitalism?"

You mean like corruption?

Diablo

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20 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Pluto's Republic's picture

@thanatokephaloides

Although it also mirrors Chinese-style communism.

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18 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@thanatokephaloides

Oligarchy v. Capitalism

Cambridge Dictionary

Oligarchy
A type of government by powerful people in a small group is called oligarchy

Capitalism
A political or economic system in which, for greatest possible profits for successful organizations and people, there is private ownership of property, business and industry.

In the US that ‘private ownership is being controlled by fewer and fewer people by the day.

What we have is a Capigarchy. And it’s very apropos that the word ‘pig’ is prominent in my new ‘word’.

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8 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Amanda Matthews's picture

@thanatokephaloides

Oligarchy v. Capitalism

Cambridge Dictionary

Oligarchy
A type of government by powerful people in a small group is called oligarchy

Capitalism
A political or economic system in which, for greatest possible profits for successful organizations and people, there is private ownership of property, business and industry.

http://www.governmentvs.com/en/what-is-oligarchy/model-17-0/amp

In the US that ‘private ownership is being controlled by fewer and fewer people by the day.

What we have is a Capigarchy. And it’s very apropos that the word ‘pig’ is prominent in my new ‘word’.

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2 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Bollox Ref's picture

provide a competitive environment for global brands like Ikea, Volvo.....

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26 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

detroitmechworks's picture

@Bollox Ref Don't get me wrong, I love their stuff. I'm currently typing this on an Ikea table that I got three year ago for 20 bucks.

Building something yourself, even from a kit, is so much more fulfilling when you CAN do it.

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15 users have voted.

You can't expect to wield Supreme Military power, just cause some corporate tosser lobbed a contract at you!

@Bollox Ref thanks and wow I didn't know Geely owned Volvo now. What don't they own? sheesh

Geely (officially Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co., Ltd) is a Chinese multinational automotive manufacturing company headquartered in Hangzhou, Zhejiang. It sells passenger vehicles under the Geely Auto, Lotus, Lynk & Co, PROTON, and Volvo brands and commercial vehicles under the London EV Company and Yuan Cheng Auto brands.

Geely has owned the Swedish passenger car maker Volvo Cars since 2010, when it acquired the company from Ford.[5] It completed the acquisition of British taxi maker The London Electric Vehicle Company in 2013.[6] In June 2017, Geely also acquired 49.9% equity in Malaysian carmaker PROTON Holdings as well as a 51% majority stake in British sports carmaker Lotus Cars. The deal is seen as an important step for the Chinese carmaker in their quest to make inroads into the lucrative ASEAN region.[7]

zoom zoom

I like legos(tm), except for the crap plastic. I hate crap plastic, hemp products can't come soon enough. Compostable legos sounds good to me. Or edible? That would be funny... mmmm adult edible legos. "if you build it..." haha I drifted from hemp to cannabis 'cause why not.

one love

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Bother.

The Aspie Corner's picture

But no. FDR let the bourgeoisie off easy even after they tried to assassinate him. And now they've dragged the country right back to the 1920s.

It's funny how the owners and their pig workers foment fear of the Democrats somehow nationalizing the means of production and taking the guns away while said Dems serve the same masters. They'd never do such a thing even if they had the levers of power. 2006 and 2008 proved it.

And today this song is as relevant as ever, even though conservative and liberal rejects alike think it's about 'work'.

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22 users have voted.

@The Aspie Corner A great singer with a great song.

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Nastarana

thanatokephaloides's picture

1) No, not "everyone" can make it in capitalism. Capitalism cannot function without most people losing.

Like any other sort of gambling, capitalism really is a zero-sum game at best; and the role one wants to play is always that of "the house" as "the house" always wins. Conversely, everyone who isn't "the house" must lose. And most people are not, and cannot become, "the house". As George Carlin correctly stated, those who are able to become "the house" are a big club, and we're not in it.

2) Where would we be if people didn’t share their wealth? Gee, I don't know. With a society like we have today? Where billionaires are totally cut off from the rest of society, and all the levers of government captured by the wealthy? Basically a society of haves and have nots.

3) As for the people who are greedy, who do nothing for anyone. They don't feel shame, and they never will. That's sort of the point.

As they say in France, precisement!

4) If the system goes down we are all f*cked, at least in the short-term. That's why Bernie Sanders wants to save it, even for rich f*cks like you.

And that's going to take the "social democracy" level of socialism at the very least. The day of laissez-faire has passed; there are no longer any huge un-tapped reservoirs of natural resources to keep a laissez-faire system afloat. And huge un-tapped reservoirs of natural resources are an absolute necessity for laissez-faire capitalism. Once all natural resources have been tapped, regulation (read: socialism) becomes necessary. Look anywhere you like, from oil drilling to Alaskan crab fishing, the story's the same. Either Society regulates capitalism, or capitalism kills itself dead as over-exploited resources fail. No other choices exist or can exist.

5) Finally, and here's the big one, your program to help a few dozen poor kids isn't capitalism! If you think it is capitalism then it only proves that someone can become a bazillionaire while still being ignorant about basic economics.

Again, precisement! Capitalists buying their consciences off through charitable acts? Just more of that eeeeevul soshializms......

edit: corrected typo

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20 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

Meteor Man's picture

I'm reposting this comment I made from The Weekly Watch because it fits:
The Real Reason Tech Billionaires Are Prepping For Doomsday

Because they know they are the real deadbeats and welfare bums:

The tech-preppers understand, at a deep level, that their ill-gotten gains are predicated on an unjust system. Deep in the brain, where reptile impulses live, tech-bros know hoarding is wrong. Human beings — even very wealthy human beings — have a bone-deep sense of injustice. We know a freeloader.

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21 users have voted.

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

@Meteor Man
They are pretty delusional.
They may never get it.
But they will understand when this latest it bubble pops

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11 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@gjohnsit

IT libertarians
They are pretty delusional.
They may never get it.
But they will understand when this latest it bubble pops

IT bubbles "pop" all the time. Just like this sound:

Wink

edit: changed music ("Popcorn" by Kraftwerk) to an embeddable video

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7 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

mimi's picture

@thanatokephaloides
Smile
and the music too...
Smile

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9 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@mimi

Smile

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5 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

He is one of Andrew Cuomo's donors, or owners?

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8 users have voted.

An ideologue is someone who has stopped thinking.

. . . money from contributors, many of whom could barely afford those contributions, and he spewed progressive, anti-neoliberal rhetoric, only to turn around and:

1. Capitulate to the DNC/Obama/Hillary at the Democratic Convention
2. Diligently work for and support Hillary Clinton rather than run third party, and
3. Say NOTHING when it was revealed how the DNC/Clinton campaign cheated him and his supporters out of the Democratic Party nomination, and when those supporters tried to get legal redress in a court of law.

Thus, to sum it all up, Bernie is as "evil" as the concept of DISHONEST BETRAYAL.

Bernie=Dishonest Betrayal

Sheepdogging: That's pretty goddamned evil in my book.

How about in yours?

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@SoylentGreenisPeople
For too many reasons to list

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orlbucfan's picture

@gjohnsit I had a front row seat watching the DLCrap/Repulsive Lite steal the primary. I have been a Life-Long Futurist (Democratic Socialist) who finally is over the Lesser of Two Evils bs. Why are both POTUS candidates evil? Is that a requirement now? If it is, we are doomed. I just finished reading a Frank Rich column where he writes about the collusion between the Orange Swamp Thing and the Clintons. Political corruption in New York has a long sordid history. Rec'd!!

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20 users have voted.

Some yahoos make me want to change species!

@orlbucfan @orlbucfan Would you be up for a diary documenting your experiences in the Sanders Campaign? The Clinton/DNC theft needs to be documented by all who were there. Nico House shouldn't be having to do this alone.

Do you have reason to fear for your life or livelihood if you do speak up? Might not that danger have receded two years later?

The Clinton/DMC grand theft needs to be documented in detail (with names changed if necessary), before the 2020 election.

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12 users have voted.

Nastarana

@gjohnsit

(or me, for that matter, and I gave him over $1K of my hard-earned cash.)

He was our committed, dauntless, and principled advocate and standard-bearer to the very end.

I see things so much more accurately now.

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@SoylentGreenisPeople
He said right from the start that if he didn't win the primaries that he would back Hillary. He was clear on that.

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@gjohnsit

. . . . such a "promise" or "commitment" would be rendered null and void by the fact that the DNC/Clinton campaign had pulled numerous dirty tricks and shenanigans to deprive him of the nomination. In other words, so long as he lost the nomination FAIR AND SQUARE, then he would be obligated to adhere to that promise. However, the minute it became obvious that he had been cheated, not only would be be released from such a commitment, BUT HE WOULD HAVE AN AFFIRMATIVE DUTY TO BREAK THAT COMMITMENT and NOT BACK Hillary, who had become the "nominee" by dishonesty and cheating.

If this wasn't the case, then Bernie essentially promised this: "I will back Hillary as the nominee EVEN IF SHE BECOMES THE NOMINEE BY FUCKING ME AND MY FOLLOWERS OVER."

And yet here you are, asserting that such a position is somehow honorable or praiseworthy?

But hell, that's just me. What do I know?

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople @SoylentGreenisPeople

that no matter what, he was taking his campaign “all the way to Philly”. He didn’t even keep that lame assed promise.

But he sure did keep asking and accepting donations. Then he crapped all over his supporters by never once standing up for them agsinst the constant insults by The Clinton Creature and her band of merry primary riggers.

EDIT: ehat/what

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1 user has voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

dystopian's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

Bernie works within the system as it is. That is his choice to make. That precludes burning that house down since he wishes to effect change from within it. It was up to everyone else to challenge all the BS that went down, not him. It was up to all the honest patriotic Americans inside the beltway and in the media, not Bernie. If he would cried
'they cheated' on it, he would not have been able to do all he has done since the primary. And continues to do. Promote the people's values. He did more than any (perhaps only Julian Assange at his level lately) as an eye-opening revolution to public thought in the last two years. He continues to be effective in a way that had he cried 'they cheated' he would not have been. That was up to the media. Just like choosing Hillary, promoting Trump, and wars. Bernie showed everyone what was wrong with the current system, of course they hate him. It is up to all of us to fix it.

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22 users have voted.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Pluto's Republic's picture

@dystopian

If the Left was capable of self-government, leaders would have emerged from the private sector (as opposed to the think tanks). I'm still trying to understand how news of Bernie swept the nation like a wildfire, how it spread between individuals and pulled an entire nation's worth of the unrepresented Left out into the daylight. It wasn't the media.

That tells me that there was plenty of opportunity for good leadership to step up and take it from here. But no one does. Did the entire movement hinge on Bernie? Is the bench that thin?This wasn't the case when the Labor movement emerged, or when the anti-war movement of the Vietnam years swept across the nation.

Foreign observers think that the brainwashing may have overwhelmed the American people.

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28 users have voted.
dystopian's picture

@Pluto's Republic

I think some are trying to step up, Tulsi Gabbard, and lots of progressives running and some winning, which is all greatly inspired by Bernie, whilst the TPTB try to squash it all at every turn. There are some, not enough, and none of the bigguns that could make an instant difference, obviously they are too self-serving at this point. The problem is that just like Wall St. and Iraq debacles, the people that created the Democratic party debacle are still running the show and calling the shots, as if they did nothing wrong. The sheepdogs are those that continue to follow and believe them at this point. It is obviously little more than blind allegiance or just hating someone or some others too much to see straight.

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17 users have voted.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Big Al's picture

@dystopian I think you're giving Sanders a little too much credit for whatever it was he did, which a major part of certainly was sheepdogging for the democratic party. That was his stated purpose the entire time, he was adamant from the beginning that the republicans and Trump must be defeated and the only avenue for that was the democratic party, in his humble opinion.
Sanders supporters on here make it sound like no one has ever mentioned the wealth inequality, single payer or a higher minimum wage. I think many forget about Obama in 2008 and Eugene Debs in 1920. One thing everyone knows, without Sanders' help, is the rich rule and our government is corrupt. The low teens to single digit congressional approval ratings over the last couple decades prove that.
The entire problem with Bernie is his affiliation with the democratic war and wall street party. All these lame new "progressive" democrats running on Sanders' name, every single one an imperialist, are not going to do shit. The democratic party like the republican party must be opposed by those that want democracy and peace.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Big Al

The entire problem with Bernie is his affiliation with the democratic war and wall street party. And the defense industry and Israel. Sure he has called Israel out on some things, but I remember when Israel ran out of bombs after lobbying all of theirs at Gaza for over a month, but when Israel asked if congress would sell them some more Bernie voted "yes."

He didn't have a problem with Obama's using drones to assassinate an American citizen, nor do I remember him saying anything about how many countries he was using them in or anything when Obama and his side kick Hillary invaded Libya. He did say that other countries needed to step up and send in their own troops and use their own drones, but he did not say "Stop the effing wars!"

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15 users have voted.

The eulogy of our species will one day read “here lies humanity; departed at the hand of greed and compliance”

Big Al's picture

@snoopydawg "It's Just Not Fucking Good Enough!" That's what it all boils down to now.

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@Big Al
And it is a principled choice, which I respect.

But there won't be a single, solitary candidate that you will be able to support. None of them will meet your minimum requirements.

Just sayin'.

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Big Al's picture

@gjohnsit I'm not sure you grasp what some of us are saying on here. We do not support the democratic party period, just as we don't support the republican party. That does include its candidates for office.

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12 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

@Big Al

No anti-imperialist candidate, no matter how presented or by whom presented, has any chance of getting anywhere near the levers of power.

Too many of our fellow countryfolks still beLIEve that our military's primary mission is to keep us safe at home and that it is an entirely honorable thing for our fellow countryfolks to volunteer for this "service". So long as this state of affairs persists, the imperialist perpetual war parties' grip on power will remain quite secure.

In my humble opinion, the only hope for significant change here is the fact that the cost$ of this state of affairs are now obviously impoverishing the majority of us, and more and more of us are beginning to revolt against this symptom.

Somehow, we need to spread a common understanding that the symptom of economic inequality is directly due to the disease of imperialism and its constant requirement for intervention in other nations' affairs.

Bad

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7 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@Big Al

'All these lame new "progressive" democrats running on Sanders' name, every single one an imperialist, are not going to do shit.'

If that ain't the truth, I don't know what is.

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14 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic

I'm still trying to understand how news of Bernie swept the nation like a wildfire, how it spread between individuals and pulled an entire nation's worth of the unrepresented Left out into the daylight. It wasn't the media.

I think it was because anyone feels that it is your electoral college system that allows the cheaters and liars to remain in power. They feel the betrayal and Bernie at least formulated that betrayal, though he didn't relate it (the betrayal) to the structure of the US electoral system. It's too complicated a thought process to put into soundbites on a campaign trail.

But he talked at least, others didn't even do that. Therefore the explosion of enthusiasm at least to hear something they all wanted to come out in the open, which other Democrats weaseled around and rather left untouched. How dare you could demand "health care for all" or "tuition free higher education" in colleges and universities (something that all European countries have pushed through in their countries). So as a foreigner, I always was puzzled why it was never done in the US at least to the degree it was implemented in other Western Democracies.

I believe Bernie knew that one thing apparently can never be changed in the US and that is your darn electoral college and its campaign finance regulations. That's the most undermining part of the American-style democracy. It's a fake democracy. And until you can't manage the majority of American people to understand that part, and until they would unite to throw all their representatives out of Congress til they have passed new laws that changes your electoral and campaign finance systems, even the most honest and meaningful single candidates like Sanders won't be able to succeed in any of the political goals they have or proposals they offer.

I think Bernie knows that and has given up to believe he could change that part of the equation outside the system. Therefore his capitulation towards the Democratic Party, which has never done anything to throw out the undemocratic electoral college system or control campaign finance regulations that depends on corporate money buying and selling politicians. They all sold their souls out to the one thing written in stone. "You must obey the electoral college and campaign finance laws"...
or you are down and out, and who wants that? Well, may be the working middle class and poor would want that, they feel quite down and out all the time.

I just think it's not helpful to blame one person to recognize that one politician alone can't make those legislative changes.

May be it's time the masses of people protest vehemently and demand new electoral and campaign finance laws first, before they even can think of any representative being able to stand up for his principles.

I remember one man trying to get that thought out into the public and he was promptly ridiculed for it. You know it's just amazing how men and women can suck in being decent and honest and how much they can lack in courage. I am sure they are scared for their own livelihood and job security being THAT radical and they are scared of the police forces to just shoot and arrest and kill those who protest in earnest.

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12 users have voted.

@Pluto's Republic I am not being contrary just for the hell of it, I guess you mean "old media" like stationary television sets, newspapers and radio boxes. But there is no way anyone felt the bern in 2016 without "new media", I think. The facebook google twitter brainwashing machine via streaming carriers, and Internet meetups.com galore. Netflix? Don't say subliminal algorithms, don't even suggest it. heh
Straight outta Silicon Valley
Then there is clown Bezos up there in his Washington Prime, now the richest petro bastard on earth awash in his own greed. No wonder there are people in line for suicide missions to mars, because why not. Musk is boring. More carz more yawns, bigger better faster moar!

What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, Bernie is the antichrist! lol NOPE, but billionaires are his donors now so don't get any HOPEs up about change, unless it goes ka-ching.

cui bono

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8 users have voted.

Bother.

@Pluto's Republic 100 year old muppet that's been giving the same speech over and over for 30 years. 2016 was the first opportunity for a lot of people to directly respond to him.

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8 users have voted.
Cassiodorus's picture

@dystopian Useful for certain things, like getting the masses to ask themselves "why are we such cheap dates?" Not useful for other things, like finding useful solutions to some of our problems, such as climate change or the out-of-control military industrial complex.

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19 users have voted.

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

snoopydawg's picture

@dystopian

It was up to Bernie to address the way Hillary and the DNC "cheated" him out of the primary. He was the only one who could have brought that to the attention to the country. None of us could have done it because we don't have the power to do so. "That was up to the media" The media has no intention to disrupt the corruption of the democratic election. They saw how the exit polls didn't match up with the vote tallies and instead of questioning what was wrong they decided not to do exit polling anymore.

But the biggest problem with Bernie not addressing it is that now the democrats can do it again and again. Hiding the fact that the primary was rigged gave people the illusion that Hillary won it fair and square. She didn't. And then Bernie lied to the country when he was asked if she had won it fair and square and he answered "yes." She did not. She cheated and now anyone can cheat again.

Would Bernie have risked looking like a fool or a sore loser? Maybe not. We do know that someone in the NYC voting office altered people's party affiliations and kicked some people off the voting rolls altogether. This person was identified, but nothing happened to her and she is in position to do it again. This wasn't the only problem with the primary either. There were many shady things that happened and they can happen again.

I do agree with you though that Bernie helped many of us open our eyes to see what the democrats stand for, but where has that gotten us? Hoyer and Pelosi have stated that it's just fine for the democrats to rig the election.

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19 users have voted.

The eulogy of our species will one day read “here lies humanity; departed at the hand of greed and compliance”

@snoopydawg

to protect the Dem Party,and would do so again. (imho)

I can't get past that.

Add his willingness to "play ball" with the war machine,and it is too much for me to swallow.
Let's not forget those missing tax returns,which he promised to release. Leverage?

Sanders could sit down with a real journalist like Chris Hedges to address these and other questions. Until then, color me disillusioned and disappointed.

P.S. I gave time & money to the Sanders campaign. His decision to ignore Stein's offer of the Green nomination squandered a real chance. Does anyone doubt that Bernie would have polled at 15% and got on the debate stage? Given a choice between Her,Trump,and Sanders the people just might have pulled the lever for Bernie.

grinding my teeth now. Would MLK have remained silent? We needed a hero and got Sanders.

CHRIST ON A CRUTCH! aaarrggh.

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13 users have voted.

@irishking

"We needed a hero and got Sanders."

Bingo.

Or, put in other words, we needed a real leader, and instead got another compromised professional politician, albeit one that had better marketing and was aimed at a juicier demographic.

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10 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@irishking @irishking

He said he was in it to win it. What he should have said is I'm in it to win it as long as I don't have to hurt the two-party system in general and the Dems in particular to do it.

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11 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@dkmich
Bernie promised to back Hillary if he lost the primaries?
He said that right from the start, and he repeated it during the primaries.

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9 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit

If he lost. He didn't lose. It was stolen from him. If he had gone after Hillary and her damn emails and fought the good fight and lost, I would understand and could even support to the victor go the spoils. She didn't win a GD thing.

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10 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@gjohnsit maybe that "excuses" Senator Sanders in your mind, above all else, above everything that occurred in that campaign, and since. That sounds like blind loyalty to me, a thing I am not in favor of. "He stuck to his word, no matter how broken it was." It doesn't seem like critical thinking to me, or even logical. The current situations for most citizens outside the Bay Area (and other insulated places of the country) don't care two shits about "keeping your word" if that word keeps them in the ditch with low wages and high debt, what Her donors favor. Bernie can't do shit but talk about it, there will never be enough votes counted in favor of 99%. Never ever ever, but go on I understand the philosophy of trying, even if it is Sisyphean. Every one needs something to believe in.

Have you reviewed the Democratic National Convention from 2016? I mean the whole effing world saw him prop up a fake candidate on live television, it was a total sham, a cringe worthy stage production. Bernie stood up in front of it all and backed a sham, for fear of Trump. Fear is bad leadership.

front line
granny peace

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8 users have voted.

Bother.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@eyo

The current situations for most citizens outside the Bay Area (and other insulated places of the country) don't care two shits about "keeping your word" if that word keeps them in the ditch with low wages and high debt, what Her donors favor. Bernie can't do shit but talk about it, there will never be enough votes counted in favor of 99%. Never ever ever, but go on I understand the philosophy of trying, even if it is Sisyphean. Every one needs something to believe in.

This!

And "you can't vote against Goldman Sachs."

DiabloBomb

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4 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@gjohnsit

. . . . such a "promise" or "commitment" would be rendered null and void by the fact that the DNC/Clinton campaign had pulled numerous dirty tricks and shenanigans to deprive him of the nomination. In other words, so long as he lost the nomination FAIR AND SQUARE, then he would be obligated to adhere to that promise. However, the minute it became obvious that he had been cheated, not only would be be released from such a commitment, BUT HE WOULD HAVE AN AFFIRMATIVE DUTY TO BREAK THAT COMMITMENT and NOT BACK Hillary, who had become the "nominee" by dishonesty and cheating.

If this wasn't the case, then Bernie essentially promised this: "I will back Hillary as the nominee EVEN IF SHE BECOMES THE NOMINEE BY FUCKING ME AND MY FOLLOWERS OVER. And if she does fuck us over, I also PROMISE not to draw attention to that fact."

And yet here you are, asserting that such a position is somehow honorable or praiseworthy?

But hell, that's just me. What do I know?

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7 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@irishking @irishking

‘Interfered’ with the election crap.

No more Bernie. Please. Let him keep pandering for his BFFs.

He’s a fucking fraud.

Key Democratic figures shift positions on Jerusalem when decision is real

*

Sanders, the 2016 Democratic rival for the presidential candidacy to Hillary Clinton, and Feinstein, the senior senator from California, separately and publicly warned Trump against taking the step no other country has taken and that has been against U.S. policy almost since the creation of Israel in 1947.

However, on June 5, 2017, both were among 90 senators who voted in favor of Senate Resolution 176, which “reaffirms the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (Public Law 104–45)”, which said that Jerusalem should be recognized as Israel’s capital and the US embassy should be moved to Jerusalem.

https://www.wikitribune.com/story/2017/12/07/united_states/key-democrati...

“All the way to Philly’ Sanders is just another opportunistic politician.

EDIT: ‘interfer’’/interfered’

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10 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews

this was attempted at the time, too.

They always try to attack Bernie from the left and it's becoming more difficult to access the facts they misrepresent on the internet... but here you go, the actual resolution.

(edit/correction: one which I was given to understand at the time was pretty much one annually voted on in the Senate for freaking ever, delaying any decision which had been originally demanded, which someone here among the better-informed than I can doubtless expand upon - and I've also edited to bring down part of the title which went through the 1st time.)

Emphasis mine:

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/sres176/text

S.Res. 176: A resolution commemorating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.

The text of the bill below is as of Jun 5, 2017 (Resolution Agreed to by Senate).

115th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. RES. 176

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

May 24, 2017

Mr. McConnell (for himself, Mr. Schumer, Mr. Heller, Mr. Graham, Mr. Nelson, Ms. Baldwin, Mrs. McCaskill, Mrs. Gillibrand, Mr. Menendez, Mr. Blumenthal, Mr. Wyden, Mr. Casey, Mr. Bennet, Mr. Rounds, Mr. Rubio, Mr. Moran, Ms. Murkowski, Mr. Booker, Ms. Stabenow, Mr. Grassley, Mr. Cassidy, Mr. Blunt, Mr. Boozman, Mr. Kennedy, Mr. Tillis, Mr. Shelby, Ms. Collins, Mr. Strange, Mrs. Fischer, Mr. Scott, Mr. Isakson, Mr. Roberts, Mrs. Ernst, Mr. Daines, Mr. Cornyn, Mr. Cruz, Mr. Young, Mr. Perdue, Mr. Wicker, Mr. Hatch, Mr. Flake, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Manchin, Mr. Cardin, Mr. Portman, and Mr. Sasse) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations

May 25, 2017

Reported by Mr. Corker, without amendment

June 5, 2017

Considered and agreed to

RESOLUTION

Commemorating the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem.

Whereas June 2017 marks the 50th anniversary of the Six Day War and the reunification of the city of Jerusalem;

Whereas there has been a continuous Jewish presence in Jerusalem for 3 millennia;

Whereas Jerusalem is a holy city and the home for people of the Jewish, Muslim, and Christian faiths;

Whereas, for 3,000 years, Jerusalem has been Judaism's holiest city and the focal point of Jewish religious devotion;

Whereas, from 1948 to 1967, Jerusalem was a divided city, and Israeli citizens of all faiths as well as Jews of all nationalities were denied access to holy sites in eastern Jerusalem, including the Old City, in which the Western Wall is located;

Whereas, in 1967, Jerusalem was reunited by Israel during the conflict known as the Six Day War;

Whereas, since 1967, Jerusalem has been a united city, and persons of all religious faiths have access to holy sites within the city;

Whereas this year marks the 50th year that Jerusalem has been administered as a united city in which the rights of all faiths have been respected and protected;

Whereas the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (Public Law 104–45), which became law on November 8, 1995, states that Jerusalem should remain the undivided capital of Israel in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected; and

Whereas it is the longstanding policy of the United States Government that a just resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict can only be achieved through direct, bilateral negotiations without preconditions for a sustainable two-state solution: Now, therefore, be it

That the Senate—
(1)

recognizes the 50th Anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem and extends its friendship and hopes for peace to the residents of Jerusalem and the people of Israel;
(2)

reaffirms its support for Israel’s commitment to religious freedom and administration of holy sites in Jerusalem;
(3)

continues to support strengthening the mutually beneficial American-Israeli relationship;
(4)

commends Egypt and Jordan, former combatant states of the Six Day War, who in subsequent years embraced a vision of peace and coexistence with Israel and have continued to uphold their respective peace agreements;
(5)

reaffirms that it is the longstanding, bipartisan policy of the United States Government that the permanent status of Jerusalem remains a matter to be decided between the parties through final status negotiations towards a two-state solution; and
(6)

reaffirms the Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995 (Public Law 104–45) as United States law, and calls upon the President and all United States officials to abide by its provisions.

Re-edit to add (as well as a period in the top sentence) that this appeared to be a potentially disastrous-if-permitted carrot intended to never be placed within reach of the Likud, something with which all US Presidents concurred, making this normal procedure for what appears to be an excuse for the collection of rather a lot of public money through the State Department - at least up until Trump:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

The Jerusalem Embassy Act of 1995[1] is a public law of the United States passed by the 104th Congress on October 23, 1995. The proposed law was adopted by the Senate (93–5),[2] and the House (374–37).[3] The Act became law without a presidential signature on November 8, 1995.

The Act recognized Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel and called for Jerusalem to remain an undivided city. Its purpose was to set aside funds for the relocation of the Embassy of the United States in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, by May 31, 1999. For this purpose it withheld 50% of the funds appropriated to the State Department specifically for "Acquisition and Maintenance of Buildings Abroad" as allocated in fiscal year 1999 until the United States Embassy in Jerusalem had officially opened.[4] Israel's declared capital is Jerusalem, but this is not internationally recognized, pending final status talks in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

Despite passage, the law allowed the President to invoke a six-month waiver of the application of the law, and reissue the waiver every six months on "national security" grounds. The waiver was repeatedly invoked by Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama.[5] President Donald Trump signed a waiver in June 2017. On June 5, 2017, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed a resolution commemorating the 50th anniversary of reunification of Jerusalem by 90-0. The resolution reaffirmed the Jerusalem Embassy Act and called upon the President and all United States officials to abide by its provisions.[6] On December 6, 2017, Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital,[7] and ordered the planning of the relocation of the embassy.[8][9] However, following the announcement, Trump signed an embassy waiver again, delaying the move, as mandated by the Act, by at least six months.[10][11] Legally, however, the U.S. embassy can be moved at any time without reliance on the Act.

On February 23, 2018, President Trump announced that the US Embassy in Israel would reopen at the Arnona consular services site of the then US Consulate-General in Jerusalem. The United States Embassy officially relocated to Jerusalem on May 14, 2018, to coincide with the 70th anniversary of the Israeli Declaration of Independence.[12][13] ...

All sane advice was against Trump doing this and the waiver - backed by the claim of national security hazard obviously superseding all else - was intended to prevent the US law from being applied to this Other People's Country.

Those voting for this resolution were voting to maintain the waiver attached to this bizarre Other People's Country US 'law' and the claim of involved US national security - not to create further disaster in what had already made into an illegally occupied disaster zone.

Edited for a missing 't'. Sigh... and edited again to add in place the rest of the Wiki bit I had been going to add after some comment forgotten by the time I got back from going outside with the dogs for the umpteenth time, lol. Getting nose-poked every time I sit down by bored and hyper puppies I'm not supposed to have out in the side-yard more than 10 minutes in case they get swiped by those with, apparently, limbs to spare to the two-year-old Boxer/Bulldog cross they'd have to drag out of the side-yard through the front yard and two gates before I got there. They aren't happy about that. And I keep forgetting what I was going to do...

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3 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Wink's picture

Exactly right.
@dystopian
Bernie made all the right moves to survive to fight another day.
And is. Hell, he's still a viable 2020 candidate.

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12 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink

And you think he'll do what, exactly, should he run again in 2020?

Win?

And if he wins, what exactly do you think he will do differently from Obama or Trump or Dubya as POTUS? Not what you HOPE he will do. What do you realistically, given the huge forces aligned against meaningful change in this system, do you think he will actually be able to accomplish?

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12 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

...that are currently suppressed in the US and lie outside the spectrum of topics that are permitted by the media monopolies and the think tanks.

I could see that happening. The Executive doesn't make laws, but he does give speeches. While the US has never had an established Left Wing political party, Bernie has ideas and policy aspirations that are embraced the world over by the Left. Educating citizens to the height of their talent, without enslaving them is one. Medically treating all sick citizens and keeping them healthy with the government acting as the only payer is another. These things are also human rights and all developed nations have them in process. With Bernie at the helm, Americans would have permission to talk about them openly and be heard. These common ideas would become normalized into the culture, which has been starved of the humane policies of the Left by the wealthy aristocracy's anti-communist — all in an effort to maintain a desperate workforce here on the US plantation.

Transformative adaptations like Universal Basic Income is the most important policy in a century. I can imagine that being an ongoing conversation throughout the nation. UBI has the potential to protect and improve the nation's economy, in a sustainable way, at a time when we will all be facing severe economic adversity. It could help us avert a catastrophe that would otherwise destroy society,.

Those are things that an irrepressible President like Bernie can inspire. These better conversations would offer people a vision of real workable future. They would make it obvious that our wars are ignorant and savage and self-destructive. We could naturally evolve without the need for a revolution, and give ourselves the utopia that rightfully belongs to us. It's been waiting for us to build it for a very long time.

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1 user has voted.
dkmich's picture

@Wink

were greatly diminished by his own actions in 2016. I gave money to Bernie. Would I do it again? I don't think so; and if I did, it wouldn't be nearly as much. He let down many of his supporters and undermined his credibility. I trusted him before. Now I do not. Would I vote for him if he was on the ballot? Sure, why not.

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14 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@dkmich

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Or

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result."

Plus, I really doubt that I'll even vote for him.

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8 users have voted.

@dystopian

. . . .

Exhibit A: "It was up to everyone else to challenge all the BS that went down, not him."

I'm also curious: Is the corollary to your statement, by the way, "Bernie cannot fail us. He can only be failed?"

People's desire for political saviors they can BELIEVE in knows no end. It is apparently one of the few inexaustible constants throughout human history.

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10 users have voted.

@dystopian For him, Israel is still the brave little nation fighting for its life. Iran, for him, is still the big bad sponsor of terrorism. We cannot expect support for a policy of armed neutrality from Bernie, alas.

Bernie, with all his considerable virtues, courage, intellect and so on, provides a perfect illustration of why my generation, the boom boom bombers, should not be allowed in positions of leadership again. There are other ways in which we can contribute, members of our generation did build the sustainable farming business to its present success, but after Clinton and Bush, no more presidents, supreme court seats or governorships for the boom boomers.

It is easy to forget how important is inspiration and example. I think President Obama's greatest success was that he demonstrated that the angry right wing can be defeated. He whupped their sorry buts twice in a row. Bernie has inspired scores, maybe even hundreds of previously apathetic persons of substance and achievement to offer themselves as candidates for local offices all over the country. Much to the dismay of the Dimocratic leadership. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of jerks.

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7 users have voted.

Nastarana

@Nastarana Sorry, but really? He did no such thing, he climbed into bed with them instead and used their racism as an excuse. One we all bought, or at least I know I damned well bought into that hot mess for FAR too long. Obama is a moderate Repugnant, in his very own words.

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13 users have voted.

@lizzyh7 he showed that they can be beaten at the polls. I was referring to his presidential campaigns, not to his presidency.

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7 users have voted.

Nastarana

@dystopian

And Bernie's always said that it wasn't about him, that change had to come from the aware and informed people standing up together, unified in the interest of gaining democracy and a decent life for all in the richest country in the world, to demand and to form their own democratic government truly of, by and for the people.

Bernie's doing the best that he can toward the public good within a government run and populated largely by ruthlessly psychopathic self-interests, and if a sizable proportion of US citizens did the same - even if this was restricted to supporting and voting well-researched Progs only and to noisily refusing en masse to accept suspect electoral results - the US government potentially could be pretty much democratized and acting in the public interest within a couple of elections.

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@SoylentGreenisPeople do re mi, as in doh! Or dough, like the big money kind. It is so obvious and easy to reap the rewards of a sick system, especially when you're old I guess. Why is Our Revolution a 501c(4)? For the do re mi, that's why. Citizens United! Thanks Her a lot. "Everybody play the game" DOLLAR LOVE
Jackson 5 ABC

^ capitalist production 1970 ^

---
Bernie Sanders is running for Senator of Vermont, WTF do I care if he is anti- this or that? Vermont is about as far from my reality in California as you can get, except for the clinton cash that keeps everything in perpetual sewer. "That's the system." Berning it at both ends.

good luck

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6 users have voted.

Bother.

Wink's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

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5 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink

Bernie did NOT betray his supporters and he was completely honest with them.

Thanks for setting me straight.

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7 users have voted.

@SoylentGreenisPeople lol good answer. I am feeling feisty so don't anyone take me srsly plz. thx
I keep getting access denied when I go down my own rabbit hole, so either the Internet is broken again or I am. heh

Social Welfare Organizations - Political Campaign Intervention
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/other-non-profits/social-welfare-organizations-political-campaign-intervention
I would like to see these two PDFs linked at the bottom I think, but no joy and it logs every try so don't everyone click at once. Heh:

Political Organizations and IRC 501(c)(4)

Political Campaign and Lobbying Activities of IRC 501(c)(4), (c)(5), and (c)(6) Organizations

Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://prod.edit.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicm95.pdf" on this server.

Reference #blahblahblah

dead links maga

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5 users have voted.

Bother.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@eyo

I would like to see these two PDFs linked at the bottom I think, but no joy and it logs every try so don't everyone click at once. Heh:

Try these, eyo:

Political Organizations and IRC 501(c)(4)

Political Campaign and Lobbying Activities of IRC 501(c)(4), (c)(5), and (c)(6) Organizations

Smile

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4 users have voted.

"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@thanatokephaloides thanks, I didn't search after hitting the dead links. nenni ekki. Nothing says fuckyou fixme like dead document links on a government site, but since you made the effort I downloaded and read them as best I could.

501c4 seems like it was written by and for wealthy lobbyists, not regular broke citizens. One of those documents is from 1995! (clinton prime). Our Revolution makes me want to puke, not vote.

good luck
peace

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8 users have voted.

Bother.

Big Al's picture

this system would be opposed to socialism. That concept goes way back, capitalism or not. Like that bible saying about how it's harder for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man entering heaven. The rich just aren't going to change their ways.
As long as the rich hold the power, there can be no change to this economic system. The only way is to institute a real democratic government and political system and let the people decide.

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18 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@Big Al
What makes the current democratic government not a real democratic government? What kind of laws need to be changed to get a real democratic government? If you know which ones, then how do you get the representatives to implement them? Is it all a question of money bribing and selling out and buying in the undemocratic elements?

Sigh. It's hard, isn't it? Hamlet questions. To sell out or not to sell out? To bribe or not to bribe? To buy influence or not to buy?

How anyone can love politics is beyond me. Smile

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10 users have voted.

Especially Trump. Bernie is the last person Trump wants to face in 2020, assuming Trump is able to run. I don't think Pence wants to face Bernie and his truths either. And for sure neither Trump nor Pence want to face Nina Turner, although that could drive the racists to the polls.

Sanders / Turner 2020

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10 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

dkmich's picture

@Timmethy2.0

The reason progressives lose so frequently on ballots is that the people who stand to benefit from their policy positions don't show up to vote leaving the enthusiastic and voting minority, religious bigots and Trump trolls, an easy path to success. In 2016, Bernie created the enthusiasm for his voters to show up. Can he still muster enough of that to beat Trump or Pence in 2020? If he can't, there isn't anyone else out there who can.

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10 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@dkmich
Last night I watched Tim Black's excellent interview of Ajamu Baraka. Tim asked Ajamu whether he would be a candidate again in the future and Ajamu said that, although electoral politics is very important, it is also extremeley important to get away from the celebrity worship. It's also really important to place a huge empphasis on building long term movements and organizations. He thinks the Democratic party will either be taken over by the progressive/liberal/non-corporatists/good/ wing of the party or it will split in 2 after the 2020 primaries. People aren't going to put up with the DNC's shit again as far as the Convention etc. goes, they will leave the party and vote Independent in much bigger numbers this time, and Pence will probably win. Ajamu also thinks Trump is going down in the next couple of months.

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15 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

Wink's picture

DNC survives beyond
@Timmethy2.0
2020. And, with the DNC gone the party soon follows over that cliff.
Which is why Bernie needs a clue, and should run on his own party line: Independent.
Why wait for the party to crash and burn, Bernie? Leave now!
Nearly everyone from 2016 will follow. Even the "we was betrayed!" crowd.
It's a slam dunk. The Repubs got nobody.
Alas, won't happen becuz Bernie got all his chips in progressives taking over the party.
sigh.

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10 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink @Wink
Including all the Berniecrats, if we're betrayed again on national television. There would still be time to vote independent in the general election. I think the 2020 primaries will be pivotal and the onus will be on the DNC to do the right thing.

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5 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

Cassiodorus's picture

4) If the system goes down we are all f*cked, at least in the short-term. That's why Bernie Sanders wants to save it, even for rich f*cks like you.

In fact, I think it's quite likely that the working class could run everything by themselves if the whole system happened to go down. The primary bad contingency is one of what would happen if only a part of the system went down, and the remaining part or parts took control.

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17 users have voted.

"The Democratic Party is better than the Republican Party in the way that manslaughter is slightly better than murder: It might seem like a lesser crime, but the victim can’t really tell the difference." -- Michael Harriot

ggersh's picture

the more I meet people the more I
love dogs

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13 users have voted.

“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy”

Chris Hedges

dkmich's picture

@ggersh

NeverArgueWithStupidPeople.jpg

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13 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@ggersh "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that justifies it."
Frederic Bastiat

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16 users have voted.
ggersh's picture

@MrWebster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_Memos

The TPP is also basically a gift to corporations
stating all the illegal shit you've done is now
legal....along with all the laws enacted for the
banks.

Thanks that is an awesome quote!

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9 users have voted.

“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy”

Chris Hedges

Wink's picture

@MrWebster

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3 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

In my day what Bernie is advocating was called "welfare state capitalism". A capitalist economy system with government controls and social programs.

From what I can tell of the Home Depot guy, nothing Bernie has proposed would have prevented him from becoming rich. In fact, one might say that his wealth was based in the state supporting home ownership such as support for new home buyers (HUD) and such things as a mortgage interest deductions on personal taxes.

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11 users have voted.
dkmich's picture

@MrWebster
"welfare state capitalism" as a label would send the Trump trolls and neoliberals howling. Keeping the definition the same and rephrasing the label to state-sponsored capitalism would be hard to argue. Your point about the home depot guy being rich because of state-sponsored housing programs is so right on.

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8 users have voted.

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mimi's picture

socialist and democratic system, I would already be 'kinda happy' if the corporate rich folks would donate their billions not into charities of their own making, but into a fond over which they have no control. Then the population should have the right to propose to whom and what for the money could be used for. There should be a direct election as to who gets the money and for what, a choice made by the people for the people. I think it's just insane to let the Besoz, the Gates and whoever is that stinky rich, decide to what 'good cause' they would donate their money.

girlish, childish pipe-dream ... ?

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9 users have voted.

...the socialist nightmare of Venezuela, one of the most oppressive regimes on Earth.

That repeated line irritates the hell out of me. Yeah, it totally has nothing to do with the U.S. exercising its tremendous power to destroy Venezuela, going on decades' worth, now. Officially listing them as a, "terrorist threat," imposing sanctions, and deliberately funding/facilitating regime change.

Heck, even a couple mainstream rags even admit that, from time to time.

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-is-venezuela-in-crisis/

There’s little evidence for the claim that “socialism killed Venezuela.”

An honest account of the crisis must include both of these aspects: the government’s costly errors, and the destabilizing actions of the opposition and US government.

The US government has not only cheered, and funded, these anti-democratic actions. By absurdly declaring that Venezuela is an “unusual and extraordinary threat” to US national security and pressuring investors and bankers to steer clear of the Maduro administration, the White House has prevented Venezuela from obtaining much-needed foreign financing and investment.

The second facet of the economic war is the damage to Venezuela’s economy wrought by US government actions.

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/10736

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/18/venezuela-protests...

US support for regime change in Venezuela is a mistake

The US push to topple the Venezuelan government of Nicolas Maduro once again pits Washington against South America

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14 users have voted.

Although in this instance:

... In fact, the parent company of Siri's creator, which was acquired by Apple in 2010, still gets over half of its revenue from the Department of Defense, according to a report they published earlier this year.

one wonders whether that's yet another example of corporate-benefit-only socialism or yet another example of contracting out some of the endlessly multiplicated public/private intrusive spying on people's personal conversations and lives...

Edit to add, although this hardly needs specifying, in either case, (or both,) as is usual, at the expense of the public and against the public interest.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.