The Ashes of Coronation Day
Shaun King of NY Daily News (and formerly of TOP) wrote an article that stated that he would indeed be voting for Hillary Rodham Clinton in the general election following her nomination victory at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia, PA.
In King's piece,
To Stop Donald Trump, I'll Be Voting for Hillary Clinton, he made an impassioned case for supporting the Democratic nominee. I gave it a read, and it sounded much like Ben Jealous' reasons during his contentious debate with the Dr. Jill Stein on Democracy Now!'s July 26th edition (Jill Stein vs. Ben Jealous: Should Progressives Reject Hillary Clinton & Vote Green?). It was the usual arguments based in fear. But it didn't sway me in the slightest.
I originally saw this article linked on Facebook, and I decided to leave a comment (against my better judgment). Getting engaged in Facebook comments can be an adventure, especially in a political post. Thankfully it's not the verbal cesspool that permeates YouTube comment threads. The comment was as follows:
"I respect your decision, Shaun King. I'm still not voting for Clinton. She is an irredeemably corrupt individual who quite obviously doesn't have anyone's interests but hers and her donor's interests at heart.
Her outdated, immature, and dangerous Cold War era thinking will take us closer to wars that do not have to be fought and that would threaten this planet's inhabitants. Her economic philosophies threaten the poor, the infirm, the young, and the helpless...as well as drive the working classes further down the ladder.
She supports the true and ultimate neoliberal goal of neo-feudal corporate dominion over the power of the people through the democratic process. She has no real interest in protecting the environment, supporting fracking and other dangerous energy sources--while the planet we live on continues to slow cook itself under the yoke and choke of fossil fuels. She fully supports the apartheid state of Israel and its most right wing leaders.
For those reasons I cannot support or vote for Hillary Rodham Clinton. And I will not reward the DNC for their corruption, mendacity, and favoritism. There are limits to my ability to compromise."
This election season wasn't as contentious as 2008. 2008 was plain nasty on a personal level. 2016 was nasty on an ideological and process level. 2016 was the DNC's corruption laid bare for all the political class (who condoned it, for the most part), the corporate media (which ignored and dismissed it), the independent media (which called it out consistently, for the most part), and the activists (who either supported it or caled it out).
The spiking of the football, the hippy punching, the slum lord arguments, and calls to fall in line made me angrier than I can remember being in any primary. There was no need for the Clinton crowd and the DNC to do things the way that they did--and they went ahead and did it anyway. The hubris, the arrogance, the smugness of the victorious neoliberal establishment against a side that won 45% of the votes was mystifying. In 2008 Obama actually reached out to HRC's supporters and went out of his way to bring them into the fold. It's like HRC's people, DWS, and the DNC completely forgot those lessons.
The Democratic Party has been totally infected with neoliberals and those who tolerate them out of fear, self-serving greed, a sense of brand loyalty, naive optimism, and blind allegiance. A while ago I was on the fence on whether or not to vote for HRC. I have, after weighing everything I've seen this primary, am sticking with leaving the top of my ballot blank. I will support down ballot candidates, but the presidential ovals on my Florida ballot will remain blank. I just can't vote for someone like Clinton.
Comments
If only Hillary Clinton can save the Republic from Trump,
then maybe it's not really worth saving.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
I'm so tired of progressives who REALLY want change BUT BUT
not THIS time, THIS election is too important, too scary, too much SCOTUS worry, etc. Which is exactly why nothing ever changes. Because they all line up behind the corrupt Democrat each time because there is always a scarier Republican. The funniest thing about this election (very dark comedy) is that they had to go to a full fascist buffoon Republican to find one scary enough to allow Progressives to justify voting for Clinton.
I don't want to hear a single complaint from any so-called Progressive who voted for Clinton when she does all the things we know she's going to do. Voting has consequences. Own them.
Romney actually inspired much
Romney actually inspired much of Obama's agenda. Yet Democrats still made him out to be the equivalent of Trump. Clinton mole Robert Reich claims we are supposed to wait till next time, to join or form a new party, but what in the world makes him assume the establishment won't put up a bigger SOB than Trump, or that democrats won't imagine that the person is as bad like they did with Romney?
It's always "next time","later","not now"
The pragmatic thing to do is to take one step forward and three steps backward.
This really is THE time to stick it to them...
There has never been a better time and there will never be a better time for the true economic progressives within the Dem Party to stick it to the Professional Centrists who orchestrated Hillary's fundamentally dishonest campaign.
As I have commented previously:
If you're a true peace-loving economic progressive who has always voted for Democrats because the Republicans are so bad, then it is time you woke up to the fact that it is different this time.
This time the corporate elite within the Dem Party fashioned a candidate who is truly more scary than the crypto-racist hair-brained megalomaniac who is representing the Republican Party.
Quite simply, Trump would have to move a lot of political mountains to be able to get the legislation passed that would be necessary for him to build a wall, ban the immigration of Muslims, 'go after Black People', etc. There is very good reason to believe that the most extreme and disgusting proposals he has come up with will never become law.
But Hillary Clinton will be in a position where she doesn't have to answer to anybody in order for her to get us involved in a nuclear confrontation with Russia or China.
Remember? It was just last October when she proposed the setting up of a No Fly Zone in Syria, which would have put us on a war footing vs. Russian. She is by far the greater risk to our well-being when compared to Trump.
With both, we get more corporate favoritism and most lost ground re: the economic well-being of average Americans. With Hillary, it is a virtual certainty that we will be threatening Russia with war, but not so with Trump (scumbag though he is).
So should true economic progressives fear voting for the wrong candidate? Of course. But this time the Greater Evil they should fear happens to be the Democrat.
James Kroeger
Reforming the Dem party
I really believe that they are too far gone to reform. New ones entering will either be corrupted or marginalized because the whole culture of the organization is rotten. Where there is corruption there is scapegoating. Although there are a few good progressives in the party, I believe that if they supported Bernie they will be retaliated against, like Nina Turner, for example. Who knew Elizabeth Warren would cave? I was surprised by her willingness to along to get along. I lost all respect for her.
I think that a new party must take the place of what democrats used to be about. Perhaps it is the Green party. I hope that they can get on the ballot in all 50 states to give people the opportunity to have a fresh start to continue The Movement that Bernie started.
Heidi Foglia
I don't think a lot of HRC voters will care...
...if she reverses some of her stances. They'll say, without any awareness, that they knew what they were getting.
And what are we getting?
Well stated, Cybrestrike!
Fear is what got us to the place we are now. Lesser evilism simply normalizes that which is evil and allows it to grow. I cannot be complicit in supporting a candidate who seems to seek out war and has no interest in protecting the environment nor those who need the protection of the state.
I have been writing about neo-liberalism here for eleven weeks and in the course of my research, I am constantly shocked at how heartless this ideology is toward real living and breathing human beings, other than the meritocracy which is a very tiny and elite group. The Clintons are the poster children for neo-liberalism. If she loses to Trump, the DNC has only themselves to blame. I cannot condone corruption by voting for it.
Thank you for your very well thought essay. You speak for many of us here.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I'm with cybrestrike too!
Wonderfully written - thank you for doing that on fb. I'm not on fb, but good to know your words are.
Think the funniest thing I've heard, didn't watch last night, was Billy trying to push $hrillary as a "change agent" = yikes! Can you imagine what their internal polls are telling them about her. Besides being a corrupt liar, that is. Change agent. What a silly attempt at a joke.
Clintons so much more dangerous than Trump. Must cleanse the Democratic party, and send the neoliberals to some other planet.
OT: what's happened to Nina Turner? Were her credentials taken away?
Me Three!
Very well-written and thoughtful response.
I personally won't leave the top slot blank, if even to write in None of the Above although I'm trending to a vote for Stein. A huge influx of Green voters will most likely be quickly attributable to the Sanders voters deserting the Dems en masse.
Thomas Frank (I think it was him) made a really insightful point - that voting is the only consumer activity he can think of where people are willing to subvert their own desires in order to vote for the person they think the majority of other people want want in order to be a winner and not "waste their vote". But who knows what the results in elections would be if instead of voting defensively against what they don't want, if people were to suddenly vote pro-actively for what they DO want.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Stein is the only protest vote that will carry a message
If she again gets under 1%, that says real progressives are few and/or powerless. If she were to get 5% or more, especially if Hillary wins a squeaker (the likeliest win she's going to get), it might put Democratic corrupt insiders on notice that they can't rely on the "Where else they gonna go?" thinking they're so used to.
Voting for Jill Stein and #Demexit to knock down party enrollment figures are the only meaningful statements I think we can make in electoral politics at the presidential level this year.
BTW, outstanding statement, cybrestrike! Mirrors my own feelings pretty closely. I would also offer the thought that the reason Republicans have gotten so bad is that the Democrats keep moving to the right just behind them, normalizing their craziness and robbing voters of a real choice.
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Don't count out the
Don't count out the possiblity that she can win. With Gary Johnson in the race, she only needs maybe 26 percent to beat them. I wish people would point this out.
But it would have to be VERY strategic
Like, Jill would have to take Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, New York, AND California, plus a gaggle of "smaller" states.
Popular vote means Sweet Fucking All in this ass-backward country - only electoral votes count.
Edit: Here's one combination that would do it:
For the heck of it I handed the Libertarians a couple of states too.
The option to play around with third and fourth parties is here: http://www.270towin.com/2016-independent-third-party-electoral-map/
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Being the biggest vote getter and losing the electoral count
would futher discredit the system and make the democrats look less invisible so it is still worth it.
I like your response to Shaun.
To the point, terse, measured, unwavering.
This election is gonna be one that calls everyone to take a place, a stand, by which they will advance their aspirations and for which they will be ready to be held accountable thereafter. For Shaun, as visible as he is, it will be the more so. The chips will fall where they may.
Thanks for sharing this with us.
If we fall in line for Hillary...nothing will change for 4 more
years at a minimum. In 4 years she will tell us how know she is going to pivot left because it's the last term and then doh...fooled again.
Fuck that, I'm done falling for that trick. She had the opportunity to pull us in but they decided to go nuclear and make unity later. Sorry, bad call on your part, DNC and Hillary.
Thanks for the essay cyberstrike, enjoyed reading you over there and more so here.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
And even up to 16 years.
God forbid she wins and becomes a two term president. After that, there is no way in hell that Democrats retain the WH. They're almost certainly going to get destroyed in the 2018 midterms already. So, worst case scenario is that we have a two term Clinton presidency followed by a two term Republican presidency. That's 16 years before we can even start to hope that things will change. Anyone who says that we'll be in a position to primary Hillary in 2020 is kidding themselves.
Rest assured that when Hillary Clinton is president...
...things will definitely change; just not for the better for 99.99% of the planet's population...
I want my two dollars!
Could not have said it better
I respect Shaun, but I see no reason to vote for Hillary whatsoever.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Agreed except for in Florida
The thought of a repeat of 2000 but this time with Trump the megalomaniac, narcissist sociopath and not just the idiot W, scares me to death. Hillary is more of the same, Trump is the Antichrist.
The political revolution continues
Disagree
Trump wants better relations with Russia. Clinton wants to reignite the Cold War. Trump dislikes regime change. Clinton is a big proponent. Trump wants to stop TPP. Clinton lies about TPP to get votes. I could go on, but the point is that Trump is not exactly the antichrist. If propensity to spark nuclear Armageddon is a metric, Clinton wins hands down. If eagerness to outsource American jobs is a metric, Clinton wins hands down.
We can respect Shaun
... but there are no possible arguments in favor of voting for Hillary that need to be respected in the least. They all boil down to fear and guilt-tripping, and Democrats have been relying on those arguments since at least Kennedy v. Nixon.
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Excellent !!! n/t
I think they have badly misjudged
Their ability to use fear. Fear only works on those who have never had to face it head on and conquer it. In 2008 there were a lot of people who had not been down that road. But the great recession taught a lot of people that acting out of fear is always a bad move.
They can only cry wolf so many times until we say
"Fuck it, let the wolf eat them"
So well said
In case anyone hasn't yet seen this, Billy's words re: fear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGW38Zy4bJo
Also seems these "democrats" have forgotten all about FDR:
"We have nothing to fear but fear itself."
If he were alive today, he'd probably add "and the Clintons."
So according to his rule
since Trump is causing us to fear, don't vote for him. Since Hillary is causing us to fear, don't vote for her.
Hmmm, who does that leave?
Why Jill of course!
Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos
Fear loses its power as an argument
... when people refuse to be afraid. Tell them to shove their Boogie Man argument and offer a better one. Then watch them flounder.
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Outstanding FB post,
as good a summary of the situation as I've seen anywhere. Makes me want to sign up on FB.
Well ... not really. But great work anyway, I hope it gets a lot of "likes," or whatever.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
now, how many people "unfriended" you after posting that? /nt
Haven't been de-friended by anyone yet...
But one of my friends, a lesbian DJ who lives in L.A. who I've known since 2002 hoped that I would change my mind. Other than that, pretty tame.
I've got friends on FB who are die-hard Democrats, Libertarians, Republicans, Independents of all stripes...so the political talk between all of us is usually pretty chill.
Please don't leave it blank
You should have other options. If you can vote Green, do so. You can help send a message that many of us are now looking for a 3rd way. You might as well make a positive statement for the future, rather than just leaving that presidential line blank. That said, that was a great response!!! I know exactly how you feel. Well except that part about considering you might have voted for Hillary. LOL
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
Yup, no blank ballots.
Make them get the White Out out! If Green is not on the ballot of a person's state, there is usually some barely known party on there or a place for a write in.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I'll look into the Green Party.
Everything I've heard about them has been a bit negative though, mostly from an organizational standpoint with regards to elections in some states. But I'll give them a look regardless.
Very well said, and pretty much sums up how I feel.
I still haven't decided what to do, but the more I read anything by a Clinton supporter, the less I want to vote for her and the angrier I become. I am sick of it. So, I have to totally back out from any political conversation if I am going to drink the cool aid in November.
I have had my last straw with neoliberalism and its evangelicals. In every speech I have ever seen Bill Clinton make, he always highlights his or his subjects conservative credentials. "The Wall Street Journal endorsed her!" That's great Bill, we know you are all about privatization and "market-based solutions" so of course they love you. It would be amazing if you could find a positive article in the intercept about you.
So who's going to stop Clinton there Shaun.
People are showing their true colors now. I have to say it, anyone that votes for Clinton is either stupid or a willing accessory to war crimes. The lady is an absolute sociopathic murderer responsible for the deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of human beings. It is despicable to me that those who know that will vote for her anyway. No respect for Shaun King or anyone who knows the truth and yet still votes for her.
IT has to be called out.
Yes, it's sad but not surprising to see how fast the big names
fall in line.
I am moderately hopeful that many of the rank and file people won't follow suit. Oh, I know many will, but at this point, I'll be happy just to see a decent showing for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, or a massively lowered turnout - whatever. Just something to show that people aren't buying the BS anymore.
Trump has enabled the beastliest expressions of ignorance
I don't think he thinks about half of what he says, but they're right when they say he's like an Internet troll come to life. People have been letting their racist freak flags fly, and it's going to get much worse if he is actually awarded with the highest political office for this hateful clown show he's been putting on.
Now, that's not to say I'm voting for HER. Yuck! But if you are a minority or love one, what do you do? Sacrifice yourselves for overseas lives that Trump may or may not save (personally, I'll bet he'll be as big a warmonger, but of course we can't know for sure)?
I'm probably voting Jill. But I don't think it's fair to say that those who vote Hill are stupid or willing. They're feeling trapped.
Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.
Harsh words for a harsh situation yes,
but I think necessary to cut to the chase. To me it's no different (actually much much worse) than voting for Ted Bundy or Wesley Allan Dodd, serial killers. Very few would do that but people don't want to categorize the killing (murders) by our elected representatives as the same as they would a private citizen. A murder is a murder. That's the kind of thinking that has to be changed imo if we're going to end imperialism and wars. We've got Henry Kissinger, Dick Cheney, Madeleine Albright, Tony Blair, George Bush, etc., walking around free because of that thinking, and Hillary Clinton as a contender for the Presidency. (not directing that at you, just in general regarding how most people view U.S. government actions)
Where were the people who are feeling trapped 5 years ago?
The Democrats had EIGHT, count them, 8!!!! years to come up with a presidential candidate for 2016, and sociopathic Killery is the best they could do?
As for Trump, the men who designed the Constitution knew very well that every so often, the populace elects or selects a demagogue. A little over a century before the Constitution was written, a guy named Cromwell had taken over the British govt. Presidents can be impeached. Supreme Court Justices can be impeached. Congresses can refuse to work with presidents--where have we heard that before? Half his own party boycotted Trump's convention, and some in the military have already let it be known that they won't take orders from him--"responsibility to refuse unlawful orders".
Mary Bennett
Hillary isn't going to treat minorities here any
better (or worse) than Trump. She'll just deliver the bad treatment in a different way. Those wars she wants us to engage in are just as deadly for domestic non-whites. It's just the mechanisms that differ, and aren't as shocking or deemed as newsworthy as a police beating.
So, yeah, I take a real dim view of any non-white who votes Hillary out of fear of Trump. We've already seen this play in other fascist countries. It won't end well for them. Or anyone but Hillary and her pals. And I'm not speaking from some high seat of white privilege here. I lived in impoverished majority-minority neighborhoods most of my life prior to college. I know Hillary isn't better than Trump for the folks I grew up with. And so do they.
" The lady is an absolute sociopathic murderer ..."
She's no lady --
You could shorten your sentence, and save a few characters (for a tweet, maybe?) by stating that --
"This absolute sociopathic murderer is responsible for the deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of human beings ..."
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
I stayed out of the '08 primary because I couldn't
see a dime's worth of difference between Obama and Clinton. I did work for Obama in the general and got caught up in the "he's really a liberal" fever even though everything I saw in the media such as Frontline indicated otherwise.
Time showed that my initial impression was correct. I'm not falling for the DNC BS again. I know who Clinton is and I can't vote for her. I don't think my white skin will protect me from Trump, and I won't fare any better under Clinton.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
In the immortally stupid words of...
...George W. Bush...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A]
I want my two dollars!
Indeed.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
CYBERSTRIKE! YAY!!! WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN?!
So good to see you, man!
I'm in full agreement, of course. Check this out: I have an inside gal, a Bernie delegate friend of mine from Green Bay. She's in Philly this week. And she participated in the walk out, and I will always be so proud of her.
I want to tell everyone her name, but I gotta check with her first to see if it's OK. It would be cool if the rest of you could follow her shenanigans on Facebook or something. 
My gal marched with Jill Stein last night.
This morning at the Wisconsin delegation breakfast, they protested Ron Kind, a Rep from Wisconsin who's as neoliberal as they come. They apparently encircled him and he was very uncomfortable, lol.
Anyway, here's a fun story: my delegate friend was taking the subway back to the hotel from the march last night. The car was loaded with Hillary supporters, one of whom decided to verbally berate the Bernie or Busters. calling a Bernie supporter a "low life" and saying "come at me, bitch!" and calling us "overgrown children".
Nice. And these people want our votes?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Fuck 'em. #JillNotHill!
I miss Colorado.
The past few months have been a crazy mess, Shiz.
I recently lost my job through a strange set of circumstances. So I've been job hunting, moved out of my old apartment with a friend who is pretty cool with me not being able to cover rent for a while too. And trying to get unemployment after working for a company that no longer exists has been difficult.
I've got the skills as a technical writer (nine years experience, plus 10 years military) but not having a degree seriously hurts. I'm about to try to get into something new, but trying to do that is going to be a challenge. I'm almost 40 and only have had two professional jobs. Big change getting back into the job hunting role. Hell, I don't even know how to interview anymore...lol
Oh, honey, I am so sorry! :(
Obviously, I had no idea you were going through all of this. Man, that friggin' sucks -- all of it.
But hopefully, you can get this new gig going soon.
Much love and luck, friend!
I miss Colorado.
Damn!
I hate this for you, Cybrestrike! I really wish the best for you. You are an incredible writer and writing skills are always valuable. Best wishes to you, by friend. (((hugs)))
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Dear Cyberstrike:
I ask you not to leave the ballot blank. Please consider the Green Party.
The Green Party USA supports local government, individual freedom, and peace. The Greens are against useless wars of intervention. The money saved by not constantly being at war could easily fund the domestic program the Greens support: free education opportunities, conversion to renewable resources for power production, and restoration of our infrastructure.
You can find out more at: http://www.gp.org/faq
I invite you to give us a look. Sometimes we’re grumpy on the outside but are actually nice people on the inside. :-)
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Oh my.
"In the end, though, Bernie lost on votes." You mean like the million or so California votes they didn't count?
"Jill Stein, though, cannot win against Hillary and Donald — period. It won't happen." Does Shaun King understand what Stein's goals are in this election?
"Donald Trump has a 54.1% likelihood of becoming the winner. That's terrifying." Except when you consider that the election isn't being held today and that Trump is not running a serious campaign.
"Most of all, though, I believe Donald Trump poses a dangerous threat to three particular groups of people that I love — immigrants, Muslims and the Black Lives Matter movement." Sigh. Another analysis of the Presidential race that doesn't really consider what sort of threat Hillary Clinton poses to those populations.
"Donald Trump has pledged to forcefully deport over 11 million undocumented immigrants in 18 months. That's over 450,000 people per month. He has not said how he will do this or where he will deport these people because saying so would show us all that his plan horrifically resembles something akin to Nazi Germany." I don't suppose record deportation rates under Obama are scary enough, then.
The hard fact of all that appears to be that the nice liberals don't seem to care a whole lot about these issues when there's no "omigod Trump" argument to make for them, and that these same issues will disappear into the background when Clinton Two becomes President. All of which makes "omigod Trump" somewhat less than convincing.
"the Democratic Party is not 'left'." -- Sabrina Salvati
Two points...
What is Obama doing for BLM? How will that improve if Clinton is President?
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
The DLC equivalent of the classic Republican't...
..."Hey, dirtbag! Get a job!"
I want my two dollars!
Obama's siding with the cops.
He's definitely a threat to BLM.
"the Democratic Party is not 'left'." -- Sabrina Salvati
My point exactly...
The local police became MORE militaristic under Obama. With Clinton, that trend will accelerate.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
That BLM became necessary under the first Black president
— am I the only one to see a giant disconnect there?
You nailed this part of the scare tactics about Trump
Have people not been paying attention to the number of families Obama has broken up and how he has created another monster corporation that is part of the for profit private prison institutions. the for profit deportation centers?
And Shaun do you remember what Hillary said about the children who are fleeing from Hondorus because of the violence there after she and Obama overthrew the government?
while we have seen reports of the children that have been sent back have been murdered.
So you are okay with this?
Shame on you, Shaun!
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Wondering
why are people taking Trumps words as what he will do, when we know, he, like Clintons, will play etch-a-sketch if elected.
It's all just words, pandering, to the groups you want to vote for you. Done ALL the time.
Listen to Terry Mcauliffe tell the truth - when he just yesterday said "Hillary will support TPP when elected" - then, of course, he "walked it back"
But the bullshit is coming out of all of them. Them are pandering to their audience. WTF. Just seems kind of silly to believe what Trump says, unless you also believe what $hrillary says- and who would do that?
Thank you, excellent comment!
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Leaving the top of the ticket blank
is my gameplan, too. The level of the DNC corruption has left me gobsmacked... and I thought I pretty cynical in the first place. Sigh.... There is nothing either of the nominees could do to earn my vote at this point. I think the best outcome we can hope for is a Trump victory, if only to smash the Clinton syndicate.
We've booted out the Bushes, now it's time to kick out the Clintons.
Despair is NOT an option!
The system must be replaced.
It's the only solution.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
... me, neither --
When Cicero had finished speaking, the people said “How well he spoke”.
When Demosthenes had finished speaking, the people said “Let us march”.
Only Trump can save us from THEM only HRC can save us from TRUMP
Anyone else notice the matching megalomaniac slogans?
These two are peas in a pod, siblings from another mother, two sides of the same coin.
____________________________________________________________________________
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it. "
-Niccolo Machiavelli
"Sorry Hillary"
-TheJerry
Dear cybresrike
Thank you for your eloquent statement. You concisely yet completely lay out the case against Mrs. Clinton as well as I have seen it done as well as I have seen it done anywhere. I offer best wishes for your future success, and I hope writing will be part of your future career.
For those who intend to vote down ballot only , is there any way to keep track of how many voters do the same in your respective states? I am assuming, maybe optimistically, that Green and Libertarian votes will be counted and reported, but what about decline to participate votes?
It may seem like a grasping at straws, minor point, but anything at all that can help us persuade our senators and congresspersons to not go along with Hillary's war plans or Trump's megalomania should not be disdained.
Mary Bennett
Thanks for the kind words!
From you and everyone else. I've kind of had it with being forced to vote for someone out of fear. I would, just once, love to vote for someone because I believed in them. Last guy was Obama, before I realized that he was nothing like I thought he'd be. Sanders was a lost opportunity that I doubt we'll see the likes of again in a long while.
Then I think of all of the new people and new faces that I've seen brought into this process and think--there will be a Sanders in that group. They're young and energized--and some of them will step up.
Any t-shirt manufacturers out there?
"Don't blame me, I voted Giant Killer Meteor" shirts will be all the rage next year. You heard it here … well probably not first.
On to Biden since 1973
I'm in for that, i want one!
I also want to get a Shillary bumper sticker and put a big black circle with the strikeout mark on it but I will NOT buy any sticker from any site affiliated with Her Heinous. I'll have to make one maybe.
But I like that idea of "don't blame me" as I still have friends who WILL vote Shillary, and while I don't feel like maybe overtly shoving that in their faces, I won't hesitate to express that sentiment either. I'm still working on them to go Green and every day they are starting to come around, the blatant corruption helps that too. So Shillary can in effect blame HERSELF for any success of the Green party, and her loss to the Rump. Really that goes without saying, but it is such a nice irony.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur