After Impeachment: the Guns of November, 2020?

The elites aren't totally clueless. They know that America isn't a peaceful, functioning WIN-WIN democracy, and that politics are likely to get increasingly more violent and chaotic with Impeachment and the '20 Presidential election. Regardless of which party wins the election next November, millions of Americans will be in a heightened state of rage. The arch-establishment Carnegie Institute and the Council on Foreign Relations have both issued warnings: Democracy is Dying, Impeachment will spark political violence - get ready for it. The only question is, how do elites intend to play out the management of conflict this time? WIN-WIN, WIN-LOSE OR LOSE-LOSE?

WIN-WIN - CONFLICT IS NORMAL: The Containment Strategy

It seems that elites view every crisis as an opportunity for gain and consolidation, whether it be by routine political clashes, civil conflict, or wars. Some have always come out further on top.

Episodic political violence has long been a fact of life in America, and in recent times it has been taking a myriad of forms from mass murders in churches to a shooting of Republican lawmakers practicing for a softball game. In 2010, polling found at least ten percent of Americans -- spread evenly across both parties -- then expressed a desire for violence against political opponents and want to overthrow the U.S. government. That anger, alienation and acts of hostility toward governing institutions and outgroup aggression have only intensified. Impeachment, we are told, will be "the spark" that now sets off a wildfire of civil conflict.

Even before the current impeachment inquest started, a Rasmussen poll found that 31 percent of probable U.S. voters surveyed in June 2018 thought “it’s likely that the United States will experience a second civil war sometime in the next five years.” [https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politic...

That foreboding and expectation of civil conlict is backed up by an influential group of conflict theorists and experts at elite think tanks who have been broadcasting alarm about this for years, and it's showing up in the corporate press. They are now advising institutions and policymakers to prepare for more political killings, public violence, and domestic terror attacks.

Take, for instance, the following warning in October from the Carnegie Institute, titled, "A Short Primer on Preventing Political Violence." It's a model of certain kind of conflict management thinking - with a few simple steps, conflict can be contained. Back to WIN-WIN: Build a few firewalls, let it burn itself out. The analysis begins with an incomplete, but realistic enough, assessment of the current state of politics in America: https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/10/04/short-primer-on-preventing-poli...

"Violence is more likely where it has happened before. It begins with polarization followed by the dehumanization of opponents. Opportunistic politicians test the system, seeing how people react to violent language to determine the potential costs. Based on such risk factors, the 2018 Fragile States Index ranked the United States among the top five “most worsened countries” for political stability, alongside Yemen and Venezuela."
[ . . . ]
"We have the tinder for political violence. Impeachment could provide the spark."

The Carnegie essay was thought significant enough that The Washington Post ("Democracy Dies in Darkness") co-published the paper along with the Institute as an October 4 Op-ed. The author, Rachel Kleinfeld, is senior fellow in the Democracy, Conflict, and Governance Program. She was the founding CEO of the Truman National Security Project.
Kleinfled goes on to observe:

America’s history of political violence spans our civil war, decades of lynchings and the assassinations of a president, presidential candidate and national community leaders in the 1960s and 1970s. The United States is also extraordinarily polarized. As for dehumanization, scholars Nathan Kalmoe and Lilliana Mason found last year that 20 percent of Republicans and 15 percent of Democrats believe that if members of the other party “are going to behave badly, they should be treated like animals.”

Kalmoe and Mason’s recent research is even more concerning. While 87 percent of Americans believe political violence is never okay, according to their surveys, 3 percent believed that if violence advanced partisan goals, it was very justified, and an additional 5 percent felt such violence was moderately justifiable. Thus, a vanguard of likely perpetrators exists (in nearly equal amounts in both parties, though violence is greater among the far right), surrounded by a larger community willing to excuse and normalize their violence.

All this is pretty realistic as far as it goes, but the message is simply shelter in place and ride it out. The establishment knows as well as we do that this country is in the midst of a systemic breakdown of norms and the legitimacy of social and political institutions is in question. We are told that Impeachment is the sort of ill-advised act of "opportunistic politicians" that trigger wider political violence. But, the prescription is put in place mechanisms to protect potential victims, let law enforcement do its work, and the matter will be resolved. The DOW will continue its march upward, undisturbed. The conflict may reach Stage 7, but no further. No sweat.

That's one possible outcome, of course. No need to change much. Hunker down and it will be made to deescalate and go away. Another American Century when it's all over. Eventual WIN-WIN. But, what if regardless of who becomes the next President, public confidence in the integrity of the electoral system has been so severely damaged by what millions see as a "coup" to overthrow Trump, while an opposing army of partisan Democrats continues to blame "Russian interference" on the GOP and pursues revanche against Russia? Then, we move down the political conflict ladder to a sustained WIN-LOSE, and a declining baseline of democracy. One more step toward LOSE-LOSE - longer-term active conflict, 8 and 9, and a hop to another ladder of escalating warfare.

According to extensive studies of civil breakdown, civil wars like other conflicts proceed by steps. Triggering events set them off, and it is difficult to predict what exactly will do it in each case. What the models do predict is that a highly charged polarized population that has dehumanized its enemies can explode into group warfare. In America, that would most likely be a low-intensity war drawing from the ranks of millions of heavily-armed Americans with levels of measurable aggression and tolerance for violence-- a group that makes up about ten percent of the population, across all political identities. The same social science research shows something else. Not only do these aggressive types hate political opponents, they also often express a desire for violent overthrow of the existing government. And, this rising potential for violence and insurrection in America has been known and written about for years. As Nathan Kalmoe originally wrote in 2015: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2015/12/11/a-surprisi... [Editor’s note: This article, originally posted Dec. 11, 2015, was reposted in light of the [Congressional] shootings in Alexandria, Va.(2017)]

In recent weeks, Americans have witnessed several acts of apparently political violence: Black Lives Matter activists were shot in Minneapolis, three people were killed at a Planned Parenthood clinic shooting in Colorado Springs, and 14 were killed in an attack in San Bernardino.

It is common and, perhaps, understandable to assume that these attacks stem from particular groups that endorse political violence and are therefore more prone to violent acts.
In fact, support for violent political action is more common than many might think.
In 2010, I fielded two national surveys that asked respondents their opinions about the following statements:

• “When politicians are damaging the country, citizens should send threats to scare them straight.”

• “The worst politicians should get a brick through the window to make them stop hurting the country.”

• “Sometimes the only way to stop bad government is with physical force.”

• “Some of the problems citizens have with government could be fixed with a few well-aimed bullets.”

• “Citizens upset by government should never use violence to express their feelings.”
Although most people opposed violence, a significant minority (ranging from 5 percent to 14 percent) agreed with each violent option, and 10 percent to 18 percent expressed indifference about violence in politics. This implies that millions of ordinary Americans endorse the general idea of violence in politics.

Interestingly, these violent attitudes did not depend on standard political and demographic characteristics. For example, Republicans and Democrats were indistinguishable in their support for political violence, and liberals and conservatives were, too.

Prediction of tipping points in group behavior within polarized societies is difficult because alongside this 15 percent or so of "aggressives" mobilizable into active participants in civil hostilities, are the "passives," political partisans who research shows are, because of their psychological aversion to violence, are demobilized by violent political rhetoric. Kalmoe, N. (2019). Mobilizing Voters with Aggressive Metaphors. Political Science Research and Methods, 7(3), 411-429. doi:10.1017/psrm.2017.36

Two recent national survey experiments by Kalmoe reveal "the hidden role of aggression in non-violent political behavior." The metaphors of war and violence in politics, so prevalent on Fox News and MSNBC, mobilizes aggressive persons but turns off non-aggressive personality types to further participation. The result is that movements and leaders tend to become increasingly extreme and politics more polarized over time, but violent rhetoric, alone, seems to cancel itself out to a degree. The trigger point for mass violent insurrection is usually a dramatic event of some type that stirs up strongly felt feelings of group injustice. The bottom line is that violent "language mobilizes strong partisans with aggressive personalities but demobilizes strong partisans low in aggression." This dynamic helps to explain the driving out of the middle and the increasingly aggressive nature of American politics and political leadership. Eventually, something real and emotional sparks accumulating frustrated group aggressions, igniting mass violence, but that point is difficult to predict.

WIN-LOSE - Civil Conflict and Diminished Democracy: the Decline of Western Democracy into Contested Authoritarian Regimes

The result of intensified polarization, paralysis, and breakdown in governmental authority is an outcome that experts in regime change working for the State Department and CIA term a "contested authoritarian regime". That is a "hybrid" or "diminished" form of democracy, a regime with formal elections but without democracy, as described by an influential 2002 study of post-Cold War governments. [Steven Livitsky, Lucan A. Way, "Elections Without Democracy: The Rise of Competitive Authoritarianism", Journal of Democracy Volume 13, Number 2 April 2002]

The "contested authoritarian" regime was found in the review of the literature by Livitsky and Way to be the most common form of government in the post-Cold War era, more numerous than either outright dictatorships or actual democracies. It is defined as "mixed regimes as partial or "diminished" forms of democracy, or as undergoing prolonged transitions . . ." In competitive authoritarian regimes, Livitsky found the formal shell of democratic institutions is present, but the states aren't democratic. The authors observed,

Unlike single-party or military dictatorships, post–Cold War regimes in Cambodia, Kenya, Malaysia, Mexico, Nigeria, Peru, Russia, Serbia, Taiwan, Ukraine, Zimbabwe, and elsewhere were competitive in that opposition forces used democratic institutions to contest vigorously – and, on occasion, successfully – for power. Nevertheless, they were not democratic. Electoral manipulation, unfair media access, abuse of state resources, and varying degrees of harassment and violence skewed the playing field in favor of incumbents. In other words, competition was real but unfair. We characterize such regimes as competitive authoritarian. Competitive authoritarian regimes proliferated after the Cold War.

Livitsky and Way correctly point out what they call a "democratizing bias" in most of this academic literature on the subject of political transformations, democracitization and governance. This bias is shown in measures and terminology of democratization such as "Freedom House’s “'Partly Free.' . . . Such characterizations imply that these cases are moving in a democratic direction." As this influential research indicated, and subsequent events have shown, the movement is definitely not in the direction of greater democracy.

The frame of reference has recently been turned upside down. Indicators of political instability and state failure that were up until a decade ago applied strictly to post-communist states and developing countries ate now showing that the old established democracies are falling into civil strife and various forms of authoritarianism. The establishment has taken notice, and is preparing to reestablish what they see as law and order, steps which can only worsen the broad slide into fascism. That is not widely viewed as an optimum outcome, but some elites can live with it.

No institution more stolidly symbolizes the smug, stodgy core of the west than the Council on Foreign Relations and its house organ, Foreign Affairs. Nonetheless, this paragon of establishment power is expressing what appears to be real nervousness, if not surprise. We don't want to alarm the Members of the Club, but something really threatens to change the status quo, and that is unusual, gentlemen. “'Centralization of power in the executive, politicization of the judiciary, attacks on independent media, the use of public office for private gain—the signs of democratic regression are well known. The only surprising thing is where they’ve turned up,' writes Editor Gideon Rose in his introduction to the May/June (2018) issue of Foreign Affairs. 'As a Latin American friend put it ruefully, ‘We’ve seen this movie before, just never in English.’' The issue’s lead package, “Is Democracy Dying?,” puts the country’s current troubles into historical and international perspective.

Indeed, established democracies can and do move backwards, and can be made to do so, as many have become increasingly authoritarian in recent years. This is acknowledged by the CFR. In an article in the same issue, "The Age of Insecurity: Can Democracy Save Itself?", Ronald Engelhart observes:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2018-04-16/age-insecurity

Over the past decade, many marginally democratic countries have become increasingly authoritarian. And authoritarian, xenophobic populist movements have grown strong enough to threaten democracy’s long-term health in several rich, established democracies, including France, Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

However, this is misleading. It is not authoritarianism from below -- given the unfortunate name "populism" as fascism is a better understood and more accurate term for it -- that primarily drives de-democratizing sprint toward civil war and authoritarian regimes with the facade of elections in America and the western countries. The move away from social democracy and embrace of fascism is driven by more than animus toward immigrants and lingering white racism, as has been suggested. It is instead the product of mass anxieties in an economic system that is increasingly unjust, unstable, fanned by oligarchy-owned mass media propaganda intended to mobilize strong underlying feelings of frustrated aggression and convert it into fanatical allegiance to cult-like political figures leading contested states mobilizing for intensified civil and foreign wars. That is precisely what we are seeing in Boris Johnson's UK and post-Impeachment America.

Stage 9 LOSE-LOSE - Post-Post-Cold War outcomes of increasingly authoritarian permanent warfare states.

It was the 20th Century commonplace that states that failed to recover from losses in wars spawned revolutions and ended up as Totalitarian regimes. That was the case in Russia (1917), Germany (1933), and China (1948). Failure in peace can also have the consequence of decline in democracy and a rise in authoritarianism, often followed by a resumption of foreign war. So far, that is the post-Cold War pattern of the 21st Century. The U.S. is an example of a failing democracy that did not successfully demobilize after the Cold War, and increasingly beset by internal social and economic divisions, political deadlock, and violent polarization, government has collapsed into a highly competitive authoritarian regime. Even before Impeachment, America already had fallen into a "dual sovereignty" with the executive undermined by elements of the security services allied with a political opposition seeking mobilization of its base and a return to power by appeal to revanchist Cold War revival. Meanwhile, the Trump Administration is trying to mobilize by increasingly violent appeals to armed partisan loyalists. Both sides accuse each other of unconstitutional violation of law and treasonous conspiracy with foreign enemies.

Meanwhile, with Boris Johnson's Brexit assured, Scotland is poised to leave Britain, the BBC Director-General Baron Hall of Birkenhead has called on social media giants to purge critics from the internet. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/14/bbc-staff-express-fear-of-...

This is likely to play out in the coming days and months the way it has historically in other failing or failed democracies: a progression of civil conflict from suppression, insurrection, civil war, ultimately escalating into international conflict and World War. That outcome is a real risk, and the definition of LOSE-LOSE. No wonder the elites have lost their illusions of control over a happy, docile democracy. If this conflict proves to be less manageable than they assume, they are about to lose a lot more than their illusions.

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Alligator Ed's picture

Finally, while many violent people are just malicious, not unsound, Moonshot CVE found that people seeking to engage with violent far-right groups are also 115 percent more likely to click on mental health ads. We should increase resources to mental health programs and other groups that help people leave behind violent organizations and proclivities.

That very quotation reveals the depth to which the 4th Amendment and civil society as a whole has shrunken and been enfeebled by austerity and corruption at the top.

115% more clicks...how do THEY know? Data mining--not surveys. Most people are only now awakening to the fact that their "wired" (and wifi)communications are commercially available for a price. And the government charges you for their intrusion into what most people would consider private matters. Such as where you buy, whom you associate with, political beliefs (if any).
The current "bad guys" are the Democrats, which party has distorted the fabric of our nation and are methodically tearing it to shreds. In the 20's and 30's it was the Republicans doing the plundering. But at least since our declared Civil War, 1861 - 1865, we have had outright transformation from the polite and restrained elitism of our Founders (who mainly took measures to ensure their own well-being with slavery and other less overt manifestations of limited forms of control) without wide-spread degradation of the general populace.

The rise of the Duopoly, which Jefferson, Madison, et. al. feared has truly evolved into authoritarian, crony capitalist, neoliberal starving of the lower classes. The line separating the "lower classes" from the elites is steadily moving upward. One might have considered the upper middle class, aw it existed in the 1950s as possessing a relatively large upper middle class, the annual accumulation of wealth, even if not in cash (and usually not in cash hoarded) raised and still raises the bar of whom can be considered to be in the Elites ie upper income earners).

Class warfare is only slowly emerging into public consciousness as a real entity about which the average person may be aware. Those conversant with politics, such as the people on this board and other discussion groups grounded in political / economic matters have been aware for decades. This is directly attributable, amongst other factors, to the tightening authoritarian grip by the powerful.

My belief, bereft of actual data, is that the number of murders, suicides by gun, drugs etc., and rates of drug addiction are the direct result of decreasing freedom combined with economic desperation. When mass violence occurs it, as our author notes, increases the propensity for more violence. Desensitization, disinhibition, and lack of moral / ethical restraints occurs. How can this not occur? When the millions see the two-tiered level of injustice (the rich get "justice" in a far more forgiving manner than the poor.

The fish rots from the head.

Our government is rotten. We know it. The rise in general knowledge and well the amount of knowledge of the unfairness of the situation is readily apparent. What then will deter those not wealthy from adopting the same devices and tactics of those treated so leniently? Certainly it is not the fear of punishment or retribution.

Pushed beyond limits, people will cease caring, as many have already, about consequences. Many will opt for revenge, even if it results in self-destruction.

Will a shooting war occur.? Consider these current "random" killings as mere skirmishes as a prodrome to battle where sides are chosen, enemies defined, and then attacked. The following statement is not a reflection of the validity, or lack thereof, of political beliefs: the well-armed Right is much more prepared to inflict violence than the Left. Sorry, if I cannot produce sources to support the claim that:

1. The Left-induced incidents of violence are more numerous while instances of Right-wing violence, though fewer, are more lethal.

2. Democrats do not know when to stop. They push their idiotic xenophobic hate of Trump and "the Russians" beyond the realm of sanity. They currently steadfastly march toward the cliff which will destroy the Democrat party as we know it--and damage much of our society along with it. The damage is done not because of the death of a political party but the destruction of the already frayed fabric of society.

The author does make predictions here, always a difficult undertaking when so many variable exist, but I do not hesitate to say that if Trump is convicted of impeachment and removed from office, there will be bloody hell to pay. If Trump does not get removed from office, as seems almost certain, a small cadre of TDS sickened Lefties will provoke violence. Such as Antifa. The reaction, if such Left-provoked attacks are serious enough (a point which defies quantitation currently), the Right will arise in self-righteous anger (not all undeserved however) and retaliate. The retaliation will not be mild. Hopefully the inevitable retaliation will be limited.

The violent Left (as apart from the non-violent Left) does not know when to stop. If tit-for-tat continues, we will have the authoritarian state openly. No matter what your politics, the result won't be nice.

I do not see win-win here. The way it stacks up, this will be lose-lose.

This is a most useful essay.

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@Alligator Ed

The Left-induced incidents of violence are more numerous while instances of Right-wing violence, though fewer, are more lethal.

Yea, I don't believe that for a second.

Democrats do not know when to stop. They push their idiotic xenophobic hate of Trump and "the Russians" beyond the realm of sanity.

True, but it's in no way different from what the Repubs did decades ago.
Vincent Foster? Benghazi? Obama's passport?
anti-Sharia law bills? War on Christmas?
The Dems are literally just following the GOP's lead. Republicans correctly see crazy in the Dems, but they have no ability to see that it's just their reflection.

I'm more concerned about Trump losing the election next November, because he will refuse to admit to losing regardless of the facts. He will make up lies about voter fraud and people on the right will eat it up.
He'll refuse to leave the White House, and he'll cause a constitutional crisis. When/If he's forced out, his people WILL start shooting then.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@gjohnsit My comment stated something which you might have overlooked when I discussed which side of the duopoly is seemingly more virtuous than the other:

The current "bad guys" are the Democrats, which party has distorted the fabric of our nation and are methodically tearing it to shreds. In the 20's and 30's it was the Republicans doing the plundering.

Furthermore, methinks you are tinged with the dreaded TDS:

I'm more concerned about Trump losing the election next November, because he will refuse to admit to losing regardless of the facts. He will make up lies about voter fraud and people on the right will eat it up.

That is repetition of Demonratic projection. Although Commander Cheeto may not be the pillar of virtue many wish he were, I believe that our Semi-authoritarian regime is much more likely to survive Trump than it is another Neoliberal Globalist spewed upon us by the DemonRats.

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@Alligator Ed

, I believe that our Semi-authoritarian regime is much more likely to survive Trump than it is another Neoliberal Globalist spewed upon us by the DemonRats.

There is barely a sliver of daylight between them on economic issues (with the exception of the Sanders wing).
Trump's renegotiation of NAFTA was a farce. His objective is to literally remove all corporate regulations, and the rest of the GOP is right behind him.
The Republican establishment has been blood-thirsty for decades (as are most Republican voters).

Exactly how are the Dems worse?

As for this comment

The current "bad guys" are the Democrats, which party has distorted the fabric of our nation and are methodically tearing it to shreds.

I suggest you check out the essay I just posted and try to reconcile that with this.

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snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

Trump's renegotiation of NAFTA was a farce. His objective is to literally remove all corporate regulations, and the rest of the GOP is right behind him.

Nancy worked alongside the republicans to get NAFTA 2.0 passed. Democrats voted to renew the patriot act, republicans voted against it. But the biggest democrat betrayal is taking place in the senate where Schumer is doing nothing to stop McConnell from changing the makeup of the courts.
Schumer keeps making deals with Mitch so he can put more on at once. And democrats have been voting for the judges.

Exactly how are the Dems worse?

Yeah I see a whole lot of difference between them. Not. Changing the courts will allow lots of great legislation to be overturned setting this country back decades. If democrats were upset about the things Trump is doing they would have impeached him for them. Just doing it after Trump's phone call and putting ByeDone at risk is the same thing that happened during watergate. Nixon wasn't impeached for war crimes in Vietnam. Oh no. He futzed with the democrats.

I forgot how democrats just gave the Putin puppet more money to make war on the planet and give him another reason to gut social programs.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg

Yeah I see a whole lot of difference between them. Not.

The point that I was disputing was that the Dems are worse.
They aren't worse.
Whether Dems are any better could be just splitting hairs.

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mimi's picture

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit

The Left-induced incidents of violence are more numerous while instances of Right-wing violence, though fewer, are more lethal.

Is this really the case in the US? Left-induced incidents of violence? I thought if there is an outbreak of violence among demonstrators of leftist movements, they were caused by infiltration of people who have an interest in making the leftist movements look like a threat. The violence is then incited with a purpose and I don't believe that those belong to the group of people, who are genuinely well-intentioned leftist activists with a heart, mind, soul and connscience.

If right-wing violence is more lethal, may be because they have more sharp-shooters among them for ideological convictions. There are more 'lonely' sharp shooters world-wide and they kill intentionally specific people. At least it looks like it to me. All I have are my guts' whispers, the German and US media reports and links to articles I read through this site here on C99p.

I don't understand the world anymore.

So, why for example one could be concerned that Trump would lose in 2020 is beyond me.
Apparently people vote only for those candidates, who have - supposedly - a good chance of winning to begin with. How does that makes sense? Why would voting then count at all?

I mean if I decide I am for a certain candidate and want him to win, I vote for him, even if other folks, polls, or wizards say, my favorite candidate has no chance of winning and my vote then would enable just the bad guy to win. So what? And why should I not split some votes of from 'the candidate the media declares to be the winner, before that candidate has even won'?

I give up. The article is very long.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi JoJo electable? Horse manure. His behavioral as well as syntactical degeneration seen in real time, as opposed to slow motion, surely has to tell most of the politically ignorant, that Obummer's Veep is a decaying, lying, decrepit piece of neoliberal excrement.

I knowingly voted for the eminently non-electable Jill Stein in 2016. Probably, I will vote for Albert Alligator next time around. At least, there will be no camouflage of Mr. distant cousin's temperament or motivation.

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Impeachment will spark political violence - get ready for it.

People will risk their necks for Donald Trump?
People will kill for Donald Trump?
The same guy that wouldn't piss on you if your guts were on fire?
Are people really that dumb?

If they are, then we may as well trigger it now. Because they are only one step away from shooting people over The Bachelorette then.

Personally I think the people on the right that are talking about violence over impeachment are full of sh*t.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@gjohnsit I have no love for Trump but sharing the typical Demonratic horror of him leads to erroneous conclusions.

I harbor no illusions that he is not a different flavor Establishmentairan. But your fear of him as an immediate threat to society is unwarranted. In the longer term perhaps. You seriously misjudge the temper of millions of Americans, who not only do NOT share your disdain for POTUS but are actually happy for his presence. There will be blood on the streets if the Dems attempt to corrupt the elections more than they have been already. In this internet age, these desultory acts will be met with hostility, much of it not subtle.

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@Alligator Ed

There will be blood on the streets if the Dems attempt to corrupt the elections more than they have been already.

This is a talking point straight from the RNC and Fox News.
Do you really think the Dems mess with the elections more than the Repubs do?

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@gjohnsit

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@leveymg
Both sides gerrymander districts, but I've only noticed Republicans gerrymandering so egregiously that Republican-appointed judges force them to tone it down and do it over.

Both sides kick people off the voting rolls, but I've only seen Republicans do it a) on a cross-border basis, and b) as a default (not to mention in a racist way).

But the BIG deal, and this is the real kicker, Dems generally only rig PRIMARY elections (against progressives). Repubs rig the general election.
Repubs complaints about Dems fixing the general elections have historically been utter and complete bullsh*t.

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@gjohnsit gaming of the electoral system and persecution of internal minorities, the GOP remains the masters of that. That and their ability to play to the lowest common denominator of the American electorate are the primary reasons the Repugs are still in power. It's really a dilemma - which evil of American politics is worse? Dirty-tricks or romancing the Klan?

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snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

Do you really think the Dems mess with the elections more than the Repubs do?

They rigged the damn primary to keep Bernie from winning it. Have the republicans ever done that? The DCCC will campaign for a republican just to keep a progressive democrat from winning. Have you kept up with what happened in Florida during the primary between DWS and Cavanova?(?) the person in charge just got rid of many ballots that weren't counted yet plus a lot of other shenanigans went on there. Blinders? Seems so.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg

They rigged the damn primary to keep Bernie from winning it. Have the republicans ever done that?

No, Republicans spend their energy rigging the general elections instead of the primaries.

Blinders? Seems so.

Actually what you are describing is "The Dems are worse because of what they've done to me."
And granted, the Dems have done more damage to the Left than the Repubs have.
I won't argue with that.
But that's not an impartial way of looking at things.

As for who 1) has done more damage to the working class, 2) who has done more dirty tricks, 3) is more crazy, the Repubs still have a slight lead.

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@Alligator Ed is subtle in its manifestations. While Dems' TDS focuses on Impeachment as the solution to all the country's problems, Trump voters did indeed believe that Trump was out to save America and drain the swamp, which neatly illustrates their own version of TDS. I think we all should see by now Trump has, and had, no intention of fully draining the swamp but has used that to point out the swampiness on the other "side" instead with lots of sound and fury, while NO swamp has been actually drained or even had its level lowered and it never will. But to still believe Trump will do anything for this country just shows how powerful TDS really is.

I don't think it is TDS to be concerned about what he and his minions, INCLUDING Democrats, WILL do to this country with another 4 year term, and personally I feel that is now inevitable with the lack of any real resistance to it from the other "side." While it is very, very easy to point to current Democrats as avowed creatures of the swamp, the Republican "side" is hardly immune.

I guess one more big fucking tax cut along with massive cuts to those horribly unfair "entitlement" programs and a bit more defense spending will cure all the ills of America. I can hear it now, "we swear, one more tax cut and all will be well America" and as we can all see, there ARE people who vote FOR just that, no matter the destruction to their own lives that creates. Of course they are deluded but there is that pesky TDS thing they're also afflicted with and that will get our owners just enough margin to get what they want. Zero corporate and wealth taxes are just sure to fix it all! Deport all the illegals! Cut SNAP and those horrible programs for those who are shamefully not rich! Invade Iran! Blame China! And yes, eventually, blame Russia as well! USA, USA, USA!!!!! MAGA!!!!

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

mhagle's picture

I appreciate it. Thanks.

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

elements of our government or security organizations may spark the smoldering tinder of the general population. This is exactly the technique used for decades by disciples of the Dulles brothers to topple one after another countries who either would not submit to Empire or who had valuable resources to plunder. The once clear line between our foreign interventions and our domestic situation has been blurred recently to a point where both domestic surveillance and covert actions may become a major factor post election, assuming they are not already.

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Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes

@ovals49 gets out of hand and how long it lasts. Controlled oppositions and engineered crises of state by security services front-running markets have been a fact for at least 140 years. By now, you'd think they have it down to a science. See,
The History of Political Dirty Tricks: Pt. 1, The Okhrana and the Paris Bourse https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&ad...
and
History of Dirty Tricks: (Pt. 2) How to Colonize a Larger Country
https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&ad...

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Alligator Ed's picture

@leveymg When was the last U.S. election untrammeled by fraud?

Rhetorical question: answer is NEVER.

Thus it is and always shall be.

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@Alligator Ed That explains why we are mostly blind to it if not actively in denial about it, unless it was the "other" party that was corrupt.

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mhagle's picture

https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-12-18/there-is-an-antidote-to-de...

It might deserve its own essay but seems to be relevant to the discussion.

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Alligator Ed's picture

@mhagle @mhagle

In these nations, people you wouldn’t trust to post a letter for you have been elected to the highest office. There, as widely predicted, they behave like a gang of vandals given the keys to an art gallery, “improving” the great works in their care with spray cans, box cutters and lump hammers. In the midst of global emergencies, they rip down environmental protections and climate agreements, and trash the regulations that constrain capital and defend the poor. They wage war on the institutions that are supposed to restrain their powers while, in some cases, committing extravagant and deliberate outrages against the rule of law. They use impunity as a political weapon, revelling in their ability to survive daily scandals, any one of which would destroy a normal politician.

Something has changed: not just in the UK and the US, but in many parts of the world. A new politics, funded by oligarchs, built on sophisticated cheating and provocative lies, using dark ads and conspiracy theories on social media, has perfected the art of persuading the poor to vote for the interests of the very rich. We must understand what we are facing, and the new strategies required to resist it.

Every time efforts to control from the top are attempted, the result is inevitable failure. This is an immutable law. It is applicable, certainly, to almost every conceivable human intervention, whether in the affairs of man or the affairs of Nature. Hubris sapiens, that's us. Pride goeth before a fall. Ready yourselves. Ourpride has been shattered. We are falling--just haven't hit bottom yet.

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snoopydawg's picture

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg I sincerely hope she did join the madness of the Demonratic crowd.

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@Alligator Ed

not sure how to take your comment though.
typo or not?

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Alligator Ed's picture

@irishking My thought was that she would not vote in favor of the bullshit impeachment. My apologies to those who were perplexed by the erroneous comment.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Alligator Ed

The transcripts of her speech is in the other essay on impeachment. The inmates are having a field day with it. Dumbo asked what would happen if he said, "Warren is scum and f'ck her"? It got over 90 recs. The comments went downhill from there. No flags.

Did you see what Nancy did?

That Mom look at the end! “Don’t you dare clap!”

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Hawkfish's picture

Republican Matt Shea 'participated in act of domestic terrorism', says report

[The report] says Shea “planned the 2016 takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge; engaged in the conflict by directing Cows (Coalition of Western States) members and militias in support of the takeover; and traveled to Burns, Oregon, and met with refuge armed occupiers contrary to appeals and warnings from law enforcement and Oregon state elected officials”.

Interestingly his own caucus has suspended him:

In response to the report, the Washington Republican state legislative minority leader, JT Wilcox, announced on Twitter that Shea had been suspended from the house Republican caucus.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Mark from Queens's picture

It is instead the product of mass anxieties in an economic system that is increasingly unjust, unstable, fanned by oligarchy-owned mass media propaganda intended to mobilize strong underlying feelings of frustrated aggression and convert it into fanatical allegiance to cult-like political figures leading contested states mobilizing for intensified civil and foreign wars.

...only a strong, clearly-explained movement behind socialism will deliver us.

The economic terrorism of unbridled capitalism, and all that it infects, has to be explained to people who sadly have so little conception of how it all ties together.

Keep taking to people.

Heavy essay, thanks.

Just heard that Brazilian police now kill something like 17 people everyday, as part of a fascist uptick that includes former officers doing some of it, in support of Bolsanaro’s twisted vision of “stomping out criminals like cockroaches.”

Failed Neoliebral governments, beholden to corporations and Wall St but not to the People, create these conditions.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut