06/17 OT: Unknown knowns, unknown unknowns, and willful iggerance

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Bio Hazard Coloring Page

Bio Hazard Coloring Page

Before I get to the study that set off a 4 alarm fire in my mind, I'm going to present some background and or refresher information. I will try to keep it brief.

In the US, we and the environment we live in are primarily "protected" by two agencies, the EPA and the FDA. Sadly, neither does much of its own testing, but relies instead upon tests performed by those producing the chemicals and/or drugs and/or foods or food additives in question. Should there be sufficiently significant and large, sufficiently adverse findings sufficiently often, then the agencies may or may nt take some action depending upon unknown and undisclosed factors.

Such testing regimes as exist are primarily concerned with new products and such, so that there is a vast catalogue of untested chemicals from before such testing regimes came into being. In addition to that backlog, almost all testing is done on each chemical in isolation, such that the effects, if any, of chemicals in combination is still unknown unless discovered by accident.

Our lives are positively saturated with chemicals as are our persons, which makes a bit of sense since we consist of chemicals. However, the number and volume of artificially invented and created ones swamps the number and volume of those naturally occurring in the natural environment. In agriculture alone pesticides and chemical fertilizers aredeeply ingrained in our farming system. The seeds farmers buy often come pre-treated with chemicals -- and sometimes, farmers don't even know it and more often do not have any idea what they are. According to some studies, more than half of farmers surveyed didn't know that the seeds they were using had been pre-treated with pesticides or didn't know what kinds of chemicals were on them. Then there is all of the stuff sprayed on after planting plus the stuff already in the water and soil and all of the stuff that drifts after being applied elsewhere. Worse yet, if they did, they wouldn't. What? That's right. That's where the fun begins.

Our agencies, and at least some of those abroad are primarily concerned with a product's active ingredients. Some few just list everything run-on fashion on the label. others list active ingredients separate from inactive or inert ingredients. and still others list active ingredients and then say something like "inert ingredients 32%" or somesuch. What if that was all bullshit? There is actually at least one App for Android devices, CodeCheck: Food & Cosmetic Product Scanner that works to close that gap a bit by disclosing some of the inert ingredients or problem ingredients. Why might there be a market for such a thing? Maybe some folks are on to something.

Today's brain boggler: is a report located here:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/yesmaam/pages/680/attachments/orig...

Title block is

Toxicity of formulants and heavy metals in glyphosate-based herbicides and other pesticides

N. Defarge (a) , J. Spiroux de Vendômois (b) , G.E. Séralini (a),?

(a) University of Caen Normandy, Department of Biology and Network on Risks, Quality and Sustainable Environment MRSH, Esplanade de la Paix, 14032 Caen Cedex, France

(b) CRIIGEN, 81 Rue Monceau, 75008 Paris, France

Further info is: Toxicology Reports 5 (2018) 156–163, a link to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221475001730149X?via%...

That link enables you to get to this:

Elsevier has partnered with Copyright Clearance Center's RightsLink service to offer a variety of options for reusing this content.

Note: This article is available under the Creative Commons CC-BY-NC-ND license and permits non-commercial use of the work as published, without adaptation or alteration provided the work is fully attributed.

So, it is ok to download and to republish, but seemingly not to abstract. The gist of it is scary in its implications for many things, for an industry wide problem of unknown but potentially huge magnitude. The specific case deals with Glyphosate, abbreviated G, and might go far to explain some of the disparate conclusions drawn from such testing. The scary thing is that it might generalize to not only boatloads of herbicides (and pesticides), but to cosmetics and many other things. You see, in their tests, they found glyphosate to be relatively non-toxic in and of itself. Yep. The "inert ingredients" or formulants with which it is mixed in numerous commercial herbicidal products, however are not remotely non-toxic in the admixtures used in those products. In essence, take the Glyphosate out of product x and product x is still toxic, it is the formulants that do the dirty work, not the G.

So, an example product report, all elements at recommended agricultural application concentrations would table out something like the following:

Item Tested effect on Tomato Plants effect on Human Cells
G by itself nil nil
formulants alone Herbicidal Cytotoxic
Complete Formulation Herbicidal Cytotoxic

Go read the report. You needn't dwell on the data tables and breakdowns, just the overall methodology and overall results. It is not good news.

So just how widely used in other products are those formulants? Just how much toxicity lies hidden in the mountains of "trade secret" formulations and inert or inactive ingredients? Just how big of a problem is this with pesticide residues on or in food, and with inactive ingredients, singly or in combination in drugs, cosmetics, foods, and food supplements? Hmmmm.

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be well and have a good one

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Title Image is Bio Hazard Coloring Book

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It's an open thread, so have at it. The floor is yours
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Anja Geitz's picture

And not just for humans, but our animals as well. A relatively new phenomenon found in the sharp spike of feline hyperthyroidism in recent years that is being attributed to the flame retardant fabrics that are in our home, which cats ingest when they lick their fur. Canary in the coal mines for the rest of us?

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There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

enhydra lutris's picture

@Anja Geitz for many decades now, various ones have been pulled of of the market because of their effects or potential effects on kids, only to be replaced with "afer" ones, which, upon further study, turn out not to be all that safe after all. The whole idea of "being safe with fire" seems not to be an acceptable substitute, which is partially a reflection of our addiction to smoking combined with our addiction to TV, especially if you throw in a few cocktails or brewskis. But, yes, canary in the coal mine for sure.

be well and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

Russia Gate is being reinvented just in time for the election and we have new players in the game. A new Russian agency which might or might not be tied to the Russian government and a new agency created to keep our websites free from Russian propaganda.

A Kremlin-linked social media disinformation operation that sought to interfere with the 2016 U.S. election has continued its work to divide and discredit Western democracies, a new report finds — but its effectiveness has been limited by its own cautious tactics.

More tweets and lmao comments

Seriously folks didn't anyone read the transcripts that were recently released that totally debunked every talking point they heard when people testified under oath and walked everything they said back. "NO I did not actually see what I said I did on TV."

Or that a federal judge told Mueller that he had no evidence that IRA was related to the Russian government and instead of sharing information with the Russian lawyers he dropped the charges? How do people not know that? Oh never mind....

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

enhydra lutris's picture

@snoopydawg
people are so bought in to all that idiocy and continue to buy in further that it makes it very difficult to hold a rational discussion on a great number of topics.

be well and have a good one.

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5 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

@enhydra lutris

are talking to the house about things Trump has or had not done. That this kabuki is what democrats are focusing on with the adulation of the anti Trumpers during mass unemployment is mind boggling. But what I am questioning is where the concern about what whistleblowers knew during Obama's tenure and why weren't they called to testify to the house which turned a blind eye to Obama's prosecuting them instead? As did the Obama fanbots. This is just more kabuki distraction for the rubes to keep them from focusing on how democrats are aiding and abetting the republicans in destroying the country. But just what do they think is going to come from this? Trump gets removed from office? Tried that with a huge swing and a miss. Barr gets impeached? Please. But I guess they will feel that dems are holding their feet to the fire, but they will refuse to see that Pelosi is still keeping her powder dry. SMDH!

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Pluto's Republic's picture

@enhydra lutris

can be made for giving up on the US altogether.

it makes it very difficult to hold a rational discussion on a great number of topics.

.

Watching America is a news site that publishes only what foreign news says about the US.

The world has the same frustrations that we do — Widespread brain damage in the US makes discussions impossible.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic @Pluto's Republic
a no, no. If you do, ... banned, hanged and co-opted. I know so many known knowns, why bother with the rest of it?

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enhydra lutris's picture

@mimi

applicable not merely to opinions and beliefs, but to iron-clad facts.

be well and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

@Pluto's Republic

bookmarks, and all that.

be well and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Thanks, adding it to my faves.

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

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@Pluto's Republic Watching America seems to present a wide range of publications and viewpoints. Increasingly but for a very long time, I've felt like I'm also an alien peering into this crazy country from a distant place!

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Granma's picture

I have no quarrel with the idea that there is too much we don't know about the chemicals we are surrounded with and their interactions with each other. I am doubtful about the validity of the claim that glycophosphate itself is not harmful.
I am not a scientist though. I think we need our community scientists' comments.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@Granma
it is hard to believe that glyphosate is benign, though the results of this study do help explain how some agencies found it highly toxic and some found it harmless, those who found it toxic were almost always testing full formulations, and those who found it harmless were always testing it in isolation. It would be like testing a pigment in isolation and then declaring that paints containing it were safe, even if most of them were lead based, as they generally were in the still recent past.

I found this report, btw, through an e-mail from the Pesticide Action Network, which cited it, and they are certainly on the public's side in these matters, so that lends it a bit of extra credibility from my perspective. Also, it was done in Europe by researchers seemingly unaffiliated with the chemical industry. That is another couple of major pluses.

be well and have a good one.

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4 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

et al

Great column. Thanks. So... some years ago I went to an allergist who not only did all the normal tests, but sent me to the SF teaching hospital to get tested for metal allergies. Because I had worked with bronze for so many years. And, woo hoo, I was/am allergic to gold and nickle. No surprise.

But the net net was he told me to STOP using PRODUCTS. wtf. right? Don't use products on your skin. None. This was a very legit conservative guy with great credentials.

Don't use products on your skin. Best advice I have ever had.

So I use cold-pressed organic sesame oil and jojoba oil. Both of witch are very absorbable by your largest organ, your skin.

There are lists of skin products that have toxic ingredients which can be found online. But also, one has to think about the whole production process, the packaging process, the shipping process, among others.

And then many years ago my gynecologist told me never to eat chicken that was not organic. She said she was finding way to many problematic cases and thought that it was in part from the hormones used in meat.

She was originally from South Africa and came to work at the Stanford Gyno department. Did not last long and started her own practice. Yet another doctor that was using critical thinking.

Good to consume low on the production chain in all cases including what you ingest.

Okay then. Take good care and have a good one, sir et al.

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Stop Climate Change Silence - Start the Conversation

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enhydra lutris's picture

@magiamma
experiences and advice received. Extreme but awesome, stop using products, great advice. Don't know if absorbing it through your skin transmits it, or if the oil extraction includes it, but jojoba contains an appetite suppressant, among other things. A really weird plant in many ways. Only organic chicken, also more likely than not great advice for all of us, though my wife and I don't stick to it very strictly.

be well and have a good one

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4 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --