Whoa! 91.41% of Bernie Sanders supporters will NOT support Hillary Clinton if she is nominee!
Submitted by vl baker on Mon, 05/09/2016 - 9:44am
I have spent the last three months compiling data over three separate surveys. At 95% confidence, and within a 3.7% +/- margin of error, 91.41% of Bernie Sanders supporters will not be voting for Hillary Clinton if she is the Democratic nominee.
Now that I have your attention, let’s talk about why that is. Bernie Sanders supporters consist of a diversity of people, from all walks of life. Each demographic has their own motives, but essentially what it boils down to is that we disagree on a fundamental level about money in politics.
A lot of data and research went into this study. Even if results are a little high, this is devastating news for the DNC.
I encourage you to read the entire study. Lots of figures and graphs.
Comments
Hello vl baker
Should your data predict accurately the behavior of supporters of Senator Sanders, then it is plausible that, come early November, "President-Elect Trump" will be a true statement.
Peace and love be with you, reader
Hillary has a knight in shining armor: ELECTION FRAUD !
Exactly. Hillary will win 95% of our vote.
Those of us who didn't have problems getting a ballot.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Holy cow! While I understand the disappointment, these
numbers seem quite a bit too high to me. But if you can verify your sources, I hope you'll post at DK! You can state right at the outset something like, "I am not recommending that this happen, but this is the poll. The only way to change it is to be aware that we have a problem." I think it will pass "the rulez".
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Data comes from SurveyMonkey...
Links included in comments. Pollster is not considered a professional pollster but the numbers add up and it's a good piece of work.
Don't post or go to TOP anymore-no good reason to support it. I was able to quit cold turkey which I highly recommend.
I shall never turn back
to any site that treats me or anyone else as mere props to spread propaganda, as machines providing them with the opportunity to state a message. This is dehumanizing and is a disordered abuse of social media. It does not recognize that a human being is behind the lines on the screen. It is fake communication, like advertisements, in that there is no attempt to establish or even recognize that a personal relationship develops through communication. It is a form of social prostitution, a vice the payment for which is vitriol vulgarity and invective.
Peace and love be with you, reader.
Not only did I go cold turkey --
but I transferred my old diaries to a WordPress site!
https://cassiodorusblog.wordpress.com/about/
I still, however, make occasional visits to Daily Kos, but only to get people who are there to come here. Why is Bobswern still there, btw?
“When there's no fight over programme, the election becomes a casting exercise. Trump's win is the unstoppable consequence of this situation.” - Jean-Luc Melanchon
He fights the good fight...
against impossible odds while his supporters fall or hang back under whithering fire.
I give him a lot of credit. I tried while I could.
I want to transfer my diaries.
Do the comments transfer too? I wrote a diary about my brother and the comments were really important to me.
Thx
DR
This...
Firefox extension, Easy Copy, will copy the diary and comments. Install it, go to the diary page with all of the comments, highlight all of the diary and comments text and then you'll be able to paste the code into either an HTML editor or another website's text editor (the area where you compose diaries and comments).
Thanks for the diary/comments copy tool, JtC eom
The exact links to SurveyMonkey, from the article:
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I think the problem lies in
the very first question which asks "are you Bernie or Bust?" If the survey had asked "Are you or have you voted for Bernie Sanders?" the survey may have not been as skewed. Nevertheless, I go back to the young voters whom I believe will not vote for either Hillary or Trump, so those votes are lost. I also believe that is why Hillary is actively courting Republicans. I think some internal polls are probably suggesting that she is going to lose a significant number of Bernie Sanders supporters, one way or another. By that, they are either voting third party or not at all.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I don't know how accurate this poll is, but let me just say this
Their latest idea is to go for Republicans who don't like Trump and try to convince them? Before you even consider how badly the NV convention, blatant voter & election fraud, as well as voter suppression has made the Democratic establishment look, I'd like to take a moment to present Hillary and those of you here who have probably been liberals most of your adult lives, a bit of a different view.
Speaking as someone who has lived in a couple of those southern states that have voted Republican OVERWHELMINGLY for the past 40 years - the states that she's so proud of having won in mostly closed primaries, who gave her the majority of that 3M vote lead she's so proud of, who's heard Limbaugh & his ilk railing on at the Clintons for 20+ years, who knows just how deep the hatred runs for her with MANY people in the south and MANY conservatives in general... I'd like to say: good luck with that.
It's hard to say whether this would be credible or not
We would need to know their methodology behind who they contacted (if they didn't just leave the surveys up for self-selection). If they were only taken by self-selection (no one was contacted and people just took the survey unprompted by contact from the pollster), then it's meaningless. We know that the surveys could at least be done without an invitation, which already means that the results may be relatively meaningless.
Even if they sent out invitations to the survey, we would need to know how they determined who to send it to since they could have sent to a very unrepresentative groups.
That said, no way no how will I be voting for Hillary in the General. Most numbers I've heard for Bernie or Bust put it well below 50% of his voters; by the same token though, we can't really know how reliable those were without knowing how they selected either. I'd love this result to be reliable; I'd love even more for the superdelegates to see it as reliable.
I don't think the numbers are that high...
But it will be much more significant than in 2000 or 2008...
It will definitely affect Hillary's chances in the general election...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
But she's more electable
because driving away voters means electability... I think? Trying to use Debbie-logic.
Don't even worry about that!
According to a particular poster at DK, she has November's vote "in the bag". So who cares??
No word on the crystal ball behind that one, I'm just sayin'...
(snark tag needed?)
Yeah & not needing no stinkin' progressives to vote
because it's already over 'n' stuff.
My brain damage has me rather chronilogicaly challenged, but I've been reading that the nomination was already decided since many months before the first vote was cast. I find that rather anti-democratic.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
It's the hacked voting machines and election fraud, of course
They've had plenty of time since '08 to improve their cheating, and now they have the full force of the party machine, which is nearly synonymous with the Clinton Machine, behind them. Unless Comey comes through with some delayed recs for justice for the Dept. of Justice.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Making sense now
This is why Kos was so against any talk of election transparency in 2004-5. He wasn't concerned about transparency because he knew the Dems would come to control the machines, and this was more important than open and fair elections.
And sure enough, Warren Buffet gets into the electronic voting machine game. Uh... yeah team...?
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
But Clinton supporters (and the Hill herself) are so kind
and open arms, why would be not embrace the suck?
Instead of beckoning us in to the dark side with cookies they seem to think ridicule and derision works better. I think people like teacher ken and fat-ass b from b would realize it but it looks like they think we will come sulking home to the bed they shat and adulterated. I won't. I see the ugliness and I am going to be sad watching it crash and burn as herr trumpler brings on the razing of America but I won't be blackmailed into sleeping in that shitty bed.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
I agree with everything you say here except calling b from b
"fat-ass". As a not particularly skinny-ass person myself, I'd appreciate it if you'd critique his loathsomely biased writing, not his appearance. Thanks!
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My apologies
I'm pretty big myself and I guess I meant it more in referring to his mouth and bullying nature. My bad.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
Ha! Well, that he is. As noted below, fathead would work for
that, since no one takes fathead literally.
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"Fathead" works well
I've said of Flush Limpbough that I'm more concerned with the fat in his head than the fat on his body, as it's impaired his judgement. Same goes for BBB or many of the other folks still left over there. (Won't say all because there are still a few good people who don't let politics get in the way of community.)
Color me dumb, but
who is b from b? Be kind. I am a Floridiot.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I think they are referring to the GOS poster
Brooklyn bad Boy
Orwell was an optimist
Zackly. IOW, badboy from Brooklyn.
He's quite in the bag for Hill, Gulfgal, and condescending and abusive about it. You will live a happy life not knowing him.
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Mostly, they're right
The majority of Sanders supporters will pull that lever for the D nominee. That's why we have the mess we have now. Fear is a powerful tool, and that crowd uses it effectively.
Not good enough this time.
the anger is palpable this cycle. It was not, prior to this, as Obama diffused a lot of it in 2008. Hillary is going to have no such luck, because she's a known entity and she's not even trying to pretend, as Obama did, that she's on the side of actual progressives. And that has incensed many, many lefties, and the verbal abuse against them is ramping up, not dialing back.
Don't count on Sanders voters coming through. Don't even. Because you'll be sorely disappointed.
The Clinton campaign
is probably counting more on moderate Republicans voting for her after being scared shitless by Trump's candidacy, figuring she'll be easier to beat in 2020 (or impeach somewhere in the meantime). I can actually see that scenario -- better the devil you know than the one you fear.
I think they also have polling data...
That confirms that they will not be getting a significant number of votes from Sanders Supporters willing to hold their nose in November...
This is why there is no effort to reach out to us...
Also just look at the number of "Flying Monkeys" at DKos and their sensitivity on the topic...
Yea... It's real...
Now all they need to do is turn right, and get Republican voters...
It's the only semi-viable path to the White House for them...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QU45YfEfYg]
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
An interesting counterpoint to this calculation is that some
Sanders supporters are likely to vote for Trump over her or other options. Would those nos. cancel out any Rs she could court, if we're so unfortunate as to have her as the D nominee?
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
The belief that MOST Bernie supporters will fall in line
Is premised on the erroneous belief that Most Bernie supporters are loyal democrats first and principled progressives only when it doesn't harm the party.
It is also based on the bullshit that Bernie supporters are all privileged white people and mostly young males playing revolution.
Reading the comments from old, mostly male, DK members I am amazed at how they do not see reality.... Reading the umpteen comments claiming it was these young white men who protested HRC in EAST LA was quite informative. they do not let reality enter into their beliefs AT ALL.
the best the HRC campaign can expect regarding Bernie supporters votes is that similar OLD basically loyal democrats will finally fall in line... Everyone else. Who knows
We live in interesting times... But you won't hear that on corp compromised cable TEE VEE
Orwell was an optimist
Old, basically loyal Democrats
with a lot of money. By "a lot", I mean, The New Middle Class, which IIRC is $450,001.00 per year and above.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I have never made such an annual sum, ever. So, I don't count, of course....
In other words
the democratic party is a party of and for the 10% (and above), $450,001 puts you in with the 10 percenters. The democratic party isn't a party that addresses the needs of the working people. If you work for a living it just doesn't make sense to be a democrat. There are a few Democrats worth supporting and after those races are run it's time to leave the dems.
This image says a lot
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.hk/2016/05/monied-elite-realignment-into...
Those from dkos will recognize this poster (emorej a Hong Kong), a strong voice for Sanders and against bullshit. He (she?) has asked for comments before this is posted at TOS tomorrow: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/comments/4it7bg/monied_eli...
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
I want to believe, I really do.
But historically in this country the fearful and stupid win more than not.
Hillary first lost me in NY with the Iraq war vote
and voting Dem is a general rule for me. Her secret dealing to insure the generals' 2009 Honduran coup was the straw that absolutely broke the donkey's back for me on this POTUS election.
At least she very possibly can win the nomination, don't count on her getting any further, given relatively honest elections. OTOH electronic vote tampering is a fine art these days so I won't place a bet on loaded dice.
HRC lost me before she ever came to NY
I never supported her as senator
I was pushing for Carolyn Kennedy
Carolyn stepped aside for HRC
And thus her résumé got the elected office it was missing in order for her to run for president
HRC merely moved to NY to flush our her résumé
Orwell was an optimist
Sanders supporters
Appreciate honesty and genuine principles. Why would they vote for Hillary?
She's likely to be better than Trump, who also has no honesty
or general principles.
Oddly, Trump has started fighting with St. Liz, which makes me wonder if he's trying to throw the election. We all like Liz too, right? How much unity will we end up with if we hate Trump for his Liz dissing?
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Honesty
Hillary has none. Bernie or Trump for President! I prefer Bernie, but Trump is my second choice.
The ONLY reason I could support Trump...
Would be that he would be easier to get rid of in 2020 and aid in the destruction of both parties.
The Republicans, well, for being republicans and the Democrats, for pretty much the same reason. This primary just confirmed many of our suspicions.
Plus, I doubt either party would work with him to accomplish any of his nuttier goals listed in his rhetoric and I think, ironically enough, less likely to get us involved in yet another fucking war or shitty trade deal.
How fucking sad is it that not only is the Republican on the right side of more issues than "Our Presumptive Nominee" but that said Republican is also Donald frigging Trump...
This election cycle really just boggles the mind.
I feel like I stepped into some Bizarre Sliders episode.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Nah
not with that, primarily because Elizabeth Warren is more than capable of handling The Donald herself. In fact, I think she's already responded to the latest volley of crap, but don't have time to go back and look....suffice to say, I think his "throw" will be more than "picking" on somebody. IMO, he's going to do something that will make him look hypocritical IRT trade or banking or some such....
Please don't do this
I have no idea where these numbers came from but they are obviously very wrong. This type of post does this site's credibility no good at all.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I went to the link, steve, it looks pretty reasonable for what
it is; that is, a series of surveymonkey surveys, attracting an online demographic who are motivated to answer the survey. Another interesting result was that about 48% get their political news from online websites, another 48% from video news such as TYT. So clearly this isn't the folks relying on the MSM. However, the age demographics were surprisingly diverse.
So if reporting the story elsewhere, look carefully into the methodology. It's elaborated upon in the comments at the link. But for what it is, it's still surprising and concerning to me that this many people will go Bernie or Bust.
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it doesn't look reasonable to me
The sample is self selecting and not random
which is fine as far as it goes but the original author goes out of their way to assign confidence values. - the only reason for doing this is for propaganda purposes. AFAIK if a sample is not truly random (self selecting samples cannot be random by definition)then error margins etc cannot be obtained.
Also, these numbers bear no relationship at all to any previous polling on the subject.
Believe me. I really wish that these were good numbers but they are not - they are not even in the ballpark of good.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I found this Poll, released last Thursday, just as shocking:
They're all nullifying each other and crossing over to do so.
Americans have truly wandered off the Party reservation.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-anti-vote-idUSKCN0XX06E
Now that one I can believe
Biggest irony is that the election could have a higher than average turnout due to voters coming out to stop a candidate. Of course both parties will then use it as an example to prove how great the system is.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I'm seeing momentum in unexpected places.
Visited Reddit today and was blown away by the energy and activity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/
At the same time, these trends seem spontaneous, as if people are acting as individuals and taking a stand, all at the same time. It's hard to see an historic moment while you're living through it.
Even here, opinions have evolved drastically since everyone arrived six weeks ago. Just six weeks of speaking fearlessly? Everything has been transformed and the future is now in play.
I'd like to see us at C99, (and all progressives,
for that matter,) avoid using "off the reservation" or variations of it. I recognize it's now in common parlance, but many Indians consider it highly offensive. I agree with them. It was wrong when Clinton recently used it and we should know better than to use it here.
Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!
I can only speak from
the perspective I have from being Cherokee, and living in the Cherokee Nation; But nobody I know cares. We are too busy trying to survive.
Perhaps other tribes feel quite differently. One of those small differences that we all have.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Obviously your POV carries a lot of weight in this discussion.
I take it very seriously; I trust most others do as well. OTOH though, MB and other Indians at TOP and elsewhere DO object to the phrase, often pretty vociferously. I'm in no way suggesting that their perspective on "off the reservation" counts for more than yours, but you'll agree it doesn't count for less either, so clearly some Indians are offended by the phrase. As a white guy, I'd rather err on the side of caution here and find other ways to make the point.
Basically, I guess I'm advocating the Golden Rule (and who among us dares object to THAT, lol!) I'm Jewish; there are certain terms like "pound of flesh" and others that some Jews find offensive while others are indifferent to them. I would expect Gentiles not to use such phrases once they've been pointed out, in consideration of the subset of Jews who do object to them.
Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!
You are absolutely right.
Those small differences can be very important to people.
I hope I didn't come across as disrespectful. I apologize if I did.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
I rec'd your comment, but one quibble:
Please don't say "off the reservation." It's insensitive to many of our fellow Bernie supporters and human beings.
"Off the rails" works :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montparnasse_derailment
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Partisanship?
Good god, Larry Sabato is such an idiot. If you are still seeing this election as a battle of parties or two competing ideologies (hi there, NPR, you ghost of decent journalism, you), then let me remove your head from the nasty crevice into which it has been shoved.
Dems are abandoning Hillary and Pubs are abandoning Donald. I know gobs of adamant, conservative Romney supporters who are going D in November and gobs of liberals like us who are going anywhere but toward a donk or elephant.
I don't believe these numbers but I also don't think they matter. For run of the mill republicans, Hillary is far and away the safe bet and she's gonna cruise regardless of what we do. With Donald as the opponent, I'd be shocked if the legal investigation of her email server resulted in anything that would damage her candidacy.
My hunky dorey, super happy thoughts of the day.
Hi NIWA!
Are we on candid camera?
Where's Mr. Funt?
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
This right here sums up why we need to form a new 3rd party.
With those numbers ANY new party with a reasonable platform could indeed become viable quite quickly if we can tap into that dissatisfaction.
I think the Sanders media team could get that job done in 2 years judging by what they have accomplished in a MUCH shorter time.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
And it's already been proven...
that a great deal of funds can be raised quickly by small, individual donors. We've rallied behind Bernie, we could certainly do the same for a party that actually represented our interests.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
self-selecting
Where your analysis fails is this: election participants are exactly as much a self-selecting group, or even more so, than SurveyMonkey poll participants are. Therefore, the polling method used for the test sample parallels the polling method being researched, and is therefore as valid as any other. The shortcomings you assign to the given research apply completely to the election itself.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
not exactly
they may both be self-selecting groups, but that doesn't mean they're the same self-selecting group
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I'll be honest
these polls are suspect, in my mind.
They look like push polls.
I wouldn;t trust this figure.
That said, I do see a high percentage (10-30% range) voting for neither Trump nor HRC in the Fall, whether because they do not vote, or because they vote third party.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
The bias is that the survey was on line
There was a post here a few weeks back suggesting that a better correlate for Bernie supporters than "young" is people who get their news from the intertubes instead of the curated media. So when you say that 96% get their news from the web or TYT, that basically means Bernies' most dedicated demographic.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Agreed. Having a demographic reach 91% consensus in politics is
rare to be polite.
Wait, what?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this site's "credibility" didn't hinge on every scrap of content being posted on it, if it is presented as it appears online and it's had an obviously honest analysis of it penned by one of our members here.
People are grown up enough here to make judgement calls on what they read here. So I would like to request that this sort of mindset (the one that essentially says "We Said Your Source is Bogus so It Is Not Welcome Here At All From Said Source, Ever") isn't utilized here, unless an actual c99 admin has made the determination.
You don't have to agree with everything posted here--but I think we should all respect the fact that the poster took the time to try and analyze it for the purposes of his/her post. If it's that lame of a source, I'd like to see something a little more substantive in response than "it's obviously wrong".
I couldn't agree more.
I like to think we're adult enough
to recognize we have to consider the source, whether it's SurveyMonkey, Politico, the NYT, or Daily Kos.
The conversation this essay has brought forth
has been a very worthwhile one, so even if this particular poll was not done scientifically, and I personally believe that it is suspect, the resulting conversation has been really meaningful.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
numbers
Evidence?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
It doesn't matter who I vote for, or
even if I vote, in the general. I live in a completely Red state. I can do whatev, it doesn't matter.
This really depresses me. Why can't we have the Prez selected by popular vote??!! Then everybody's vote would matter...assuming we reform the voting process, that is.
I guess that means a constitutional amendment, sigh.
Free the voters!
It would get rid of the stupid red/blue state paradigm, at least for the presidential election. It would also force the campaigns to take every state seriously, not just the swingy ones.
There is a law out there, passed in several states, some large, that says that if states containing a majority of the electoral college votes also pass the law, then the states will require their electors to vote for the candidate winning the popular vote. I guess that has happened yet.
I don't understand who put these polls and data together
is it your own compilation or do you report of others, who have done that?
https://www.euronews.com/live
Click on link, then read comments.....
Surveys come from Survey Monkey, links in comments. Looks to me like numbers are good.
Does seem high to me but then numbers of 25-30% of Sanders supporters not voting for Clinton seemed very low to me.
I clicked on your link - it doesn't lead to a site
called survey monkeys, whatever that is supposed to mean. The website was called "the ineffable sonder" something. The representation of the data was not in order. It looked as if someone has slapped something together, cut and pasted something, shook it well, decorated it with great "unbiased" visuals etc. and used it to satisfy a certain audience. That's just my impression, I have nothing to back up my opinion by facts. I would suggest whoever put those data together to rewrite the whole thing and give some facts of where those data came from, how they were compiled etc.
I don't question the trend the data indicate, I question the professionalism of the people who put them together.
It's hard to base your opinion on those results. Though I could imagine that the other numbers floating around, ie 30 plus percent of Sanders voters would not vote for Hillary in case he loses the nomination is too low.
Just saying how I feel about your linked website, not a critique towards you or the original data collectors. But it should be known how they did the surveys.
https://www.euronews.com/live
These numbers seem high, but
I firmly believe the majority of Bernie's younger supporters will not vote for Hillary. They may vote third party or sit the election out altogether. If the millennials that I met in Occupy are remotely representative of Bernie's supporters, they see through the bullshit that is the two current parties. The main reason they are attracted to Bernie is his authenticity and they will not settle for less.
IMHO, if only 40% or so of Bernie's supporters refuse to vote for Clinton, she is in deep trouble. A vote cast for third party or not cast at all is a vote lost. People are pissed and they see the overt corruptive influence of money in politics. Perhaps the entire corrupt political system we are living under must crash and burn first.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
If she returns every damn penny that she's sucked out of
the system, and gets down on her knees before the entire nation on national tv (in prime time, along with the rest of her family/foundation/campaign scumbags) and takes responsibility for all her bad choices, wrong decisions, and the lies she spouts every time she opens her mouth, - and drops out of the race, I may consider cursing every breath she takes less often.
As part of the 91.41% I hope to see that number grow as we get closer to the convention.
I think people of
all ages and 'generations' who are supporting Bernie both indies and Democratic will not vote for Hillary. Like Big Al and the Survey Monkey data said Sander's supporters do not get their information from the establishment media or the political propaganda kabuki machine. It's a globalized world that works two ways as far as information, politics and recent history goes.
Yesterday between the 6 people from three generations at brunch we talked about the insane election. No conservatives in this group. Only my son said he would vote for Hillary because of Trump. Even he was open to listening to reasons not to vote for Killery. My granddaughter a millennial is going to vote for Jill Stein in the OR. primary later this month. All of us present do not trust the establishment both online and via TV media for 'news'.
It seems to me that the rift in the Democratic party is as deep as in the Republicans. It's a duopoly and since the Obama election and the obvious ensuing congressional kabuki show it's pretty clear to most people that these two parties are complicit. I'm more worried about people looking at their choice and not voting as
On a city level our choices for vote for mayor are a so called 'progressive' Dem. who's a crooked weasel and a former Republican who switched as no Republican has a chance in Portland. I investigated the former Republican and there is no way I can vote for either of these two front runners. I'm going Green, Socialist or Indie. I'm done ever voting out of fear. Lesser evils on any level as the are not lesser they are the same evil dressed up as a Donkey or an Elephant.
My point being that it isn't just young people who will refuse to vote for Hillery. Even people who are not political junkies or haven't extensively read about the Clinton's nasty ongoing deeds both global and domestic are able to see with their lying eyes what The Mad Bomber is about. Who knows maybe Trump will scare the pant's off Republicans and they will switch to HRC. Whatever happens in this mad election no one should blame the voters instead of the real culprit the complicit duopoly of D's and R's and the powers that be who pull the puppet strings.
Interesting and surreal times are playing out in this undemocratic election. I really think people are fed up with having to vote fort their and other peoples degrees of abuse and misery. What happens when humans en mass withdraw their consent to be governed by the armed and dangerous psycho's with guns and money?
Seems to me that historically speaking people can and do find a way to pry the blood sucking vampire squid of humanities face. First step is not to fall for the inevitable bs. these Visigoths always say they are inevitable and to not let fear of competing evils scare you into compliance.
What did the Spanish ever do to you, shaharazade?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Visigoths didn't originate in Spain
They moved in from somewhere in Eastern Europe (after splitting up with the Ostrogoths, who took over northern Italy). Their actual origin is a highly complicated and controversial topic.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goths
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
But that's where the Visigoths live now.
There are almost no Goths left in the original Gothic homeland on the northeast bank of the Danube. The Huns, Burgundians, and Magyar drove them to the south and west. Today, Visigoth pretty much means Spaniard.
And Spaniards make tasty wine, and serve yummy free snacks (tapas) when you go out to drink it. I have yet to witness Hillary's supporters do anything so useful, civilized, or pleasant. Especially over at TOP.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Hi Shaharazade,
I would have loved to have been at that table!
Any teeny tiny ameba of a chance that I could vote for her evaporated when she laughed after seeing Qaddafi brutally tortured and killed.
Never never never never never!
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Exactly. As an old BernieBro
#BernieorBuster I have zero intentions of voting for Her Highness. My vote won't matter anyway as I live in blue NY (who apparently love HRC). I'll vote for the Greens instead. Guess I woud vote for Jill, or write-in Bernie, if I lived is a Swing State.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
That's what this Florida "Swing Stater" plans to do...
If Bernie ain't on the Ballot Stein will get my vote, she is on the ballot down here.
I wish I was in Tim Canova's district so I could vote for him against DWS...
She and Hillary both need to just go away forever.
I think one of the worst parts of a Hillary presidency will be having to hear her voice, it just oozes phoniness and drips with condescension...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
And then there are the double taps like me
Not only do I intend to deny her one vote, I intend to add one vote to Trump. That's two.
I do not think I am alone. While many lefties will vote for a party (Green) that at least represents what they believe in, I don't think many Indies share that. I do believe Hillary is the most dangerous of the two and has be stopped.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
A vote for either
By me would be swiftly followed by harikari. I have come to agree with your point, though. Both are going to continue the financial crippling of the 99+%, with all the myriad tradeoffs they are willing to make on behalf of the private sector. Might as well have a crackpot do it than someone who maintains an air of sanity. That could be the best way to begin to end this slow, awful spiral downward.
I agree with you.
A sizeable number of Bernie supporters won't vote for Hillary. At. All.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
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