I hope people understand that somebody's gonna get hurt in these things, going forward. Perhaps even killed.
And you know what? There are many who came before me that laid down their lives to try to free us from the chains of the greedy. If I have to return the favor or "pay it forward", so be it.
Someone over at TOP used to have “Where’s my habeas corpus?” as their sig line. The situation in Philly is gonna be like, “Where’s our First Amendment?”
Fear of Republicans or whatever else Establishment Dems programmed them to fear over at DK Labs.
As many as half of all her supporters — according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Thursday — are actually voting to stop Donald "Boogyman" Trump. Democrats and Republicans alike.
Of course, half of all Americans who plan to vote for Trump — Republicans and Democrats alike — are actually voting to stop Hillary "Boogywoman" Clinton.
The Independents and Millennials — together larger than any party — do not have a candidate in the 2016 race, and favor neither Hillary nor Trump.
It's the 2016 US Identity Hate Elections — and it's starting to sound like an appropriate event to me, a fitting event to commemorate the collapse of both corrupt Parties, along with the rapid expansion of politically unshackled Americans.
________________________
Nearly half of American voters who support either Democrat Hillary Clinton or Republican Donald Trump for the White House said they will mainly be trying to block the other side from winning, according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released Thursday.
Remember that the Presidential election is actually fifty separate elections.
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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
Clearly the Latino community in much of CA is not going to break for HRH. My question is, where was the Latino community in TX? Why did Bernie lose so big there? Is there a difference in the character of the two communities, or is it just later in the race and voters are better informed?
Help me out here. Bernie's loos in TX really bothered me, especially since he won in Oklahoma, which is similar in a lot of ways.
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The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
I'd love the answer too, as I voted for Bernie in Tx. I am sooo going to take this video to work and show it to one Hispanic guy I know of who said he was going to wear a "Fuck Trump" tee shirt to the polls, and I explained how they could keep him from voting if he did.
Side note: after borrowing a small truck out of fear of flooding in Houston, I was notified by a black guy who loved it, and the entire break room who hated it, that it was sporting a Trump bumper sticker! I was so embarrassed! I got the guy I reference above to type up and print out a sign en Espanol that the truck was borrowed and that I'm not a Trump supporter.
I wonder if he knows about Berta. He will now, if he didn't before. Then he'll know about Stein too if Bernie doesn't win the contested convention.
that some members of the Latino community have been reluctant to respond to polls out of fear that they're actually ICE agents in disguise looking to nab undocumented relatives. Could be voting was also suppressed in TX for the same reasons. I wouldn't put it past Trump's goons to hang out at polling places looking for targets.
Bernie won the Hispanic wards in Chicago overwhelmingly. I believe he did well in Milwaukee too? But I believe he did not do so well in NY.
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It's true right now like it was back then. The old devils are at it again. When I say devil you know who I mean these animals in the dark malicious politicians with nefarious schemes charlatans and crooked cops. - 'Old Devils' William Elliot Whitmore
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
This election was as crooked as anything in the ME. "Hillary Saddam wins b 98%."
I maintain she is illegitimate, worse than Bush. Take your pick. Unless there is a strategy for a protest vote laid out that can be seen and heard even if not reported, it leaves me with the lesser of evils and it isn't Hillary.
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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
defeated in a landslide. People had convinced themselves Goldwater was dangerous—that he’d make bad decisions on matters of war and peace.
Bad decisions on matters of war and peace . . . I and my draft-age cohort thought we’d all dodged a bullet, but as we quickly found out, the joke was on us.
They can vote very differently. They speak very different dialects. They all tend toward conservative. It's a catholic thing.
What they call Hispanic in New York are largely Puerto Ricans and Cubans. They migrated from islands off the east coast of the US.
In the rest of the US, Hispanics generally migrated across land from Central America or Mexico. Many of them are indigenous to the west US, when the US seized Northern Mexico by force and drew a new border, bisecting that nation.
I am amused when my New York friends speak about Hispanic attitudes, thinking they are referring to all American Hispanics. They are actually talking about Puerto Ricans or Cubans — the only Hispanics they know.
Cruz and Rubio have nothing in common with the indigenous Hispanics of America. Their Spanish sounds garbled and gargled, compared to the Spanish spoken by Julian Castro, for example, who thus resonates with majority of Hispanics in the US States. George and Jeb Bush also speak the Spanish of the Land and both enjoyed Hispanic support, as a result.
having lived in Miami, i was at one point part of a small congregation that had immigrants from EVERY SINGLE South and Central American country except Paraguay. So i get the immense diversity of what we North Americans lump together as "Hispanic". However, by your reasoning CA and TX should have some what similar mixes of Hispanics from different backgrounds, which brings me back to my question...
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The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
Hispanics in NM do not fit into either category as they came directly from Spain rather than up from Mexico. Also there is are some large distinctions between those who came from Mexico (at different times) and from Central or South America. In other words, they are as diverse as the rest of the American population. Politicians cannot see that for some reason, other than elite blindness.
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Now that I think of it, I've never believed in that demographic. It is nuanced, as you say. Catholicism has a greater influence.
Having lived on both coasts, I do regard east coast Latinos as a completely different demographic with very different politics. The New York Hispanic vote is culturally unique and not representative of the nation's Hispanics, who continue to evolve politically.
Regarding the Spanish living in your state, they are Hispanics, of course. They are technically Latin American in the same way that the ethnic French in Quebec are. According to our Anglo Overlords.
for such blasphemy. THE family (my mother's) came from Spain, and she really takes umbrage toward anyone who would put her into any group that was not of direct Spanish heritage. She does differentiate from Hispanics and those who are not directly from Spain--Mexico and Latin America, ya see. = )
I was born and raised in San Diego, so my mother made sure that I did not learn Spanish as a child because she didn't want people to think I was Mexican. A different kind of racism, I guess. Nobody really would have as I was raised so completely white bread that it took me until adulthood to realize I was half Hispanic. = )
Most of my mother's family is in NM, and I spent 15 years there, and there is a definite difference in the way of thinking and life style of other Hispanics/Latinx that I have known. Heck, I even make enchiladas as a casserole rather than rolled.
Yes, Catholicism is probably the one unifying aspect between the various groups, but even that has some different nuances. (e.g., the saints are somewhat different in importance and the Virgin Mary is seen differently--Lady of Guadalupe vs Lady of Fatima.)
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Your mother is indigenous to Europe, like the majority of Americans are. Others are indigenous to Asia or Africa. Quite a few speak Spanish for one reason or another, but they are not considered Hispanic.
Generally, Hispanics are genetically Native Americans. Some have a female ancestor that mated with one of the Spanish invaders that came to steal their gold. Many Hispanics are also fully indigenous native Americans whose ancestors came to the American continent 30 to 50 thousand years ago. They happen to speak Spanish.
Western hemisphere nations that have national languages other than English are called "Latin" referring to European languages. Latin Americans. Those non-Anglo European languages came to the Western Hemisphere rather recently. They arrived immediately after Europeans invented the gun, making pillaging and genocide and slavery easy.
a reasonable explanation of why people of Asia or Africa may speak Spanish (other than later conquests in some of those areas, like the Philippines) is that the Moors conquered Spain for several centuries and they may have spread the language.
Uh, no. Hispanics are people from a Spanish speaking country such as Spain or the Latin american countries, sans Brazil which speaks Portuguese. Native Americans (who originated mostly from the Huns, see Haplogroup Q) learned Spanish from the Conquistadors. People who married Native Americans were generally called mestizos, until they became part of the dominant culture of which ever country they were in, e.g., Mexico/Mexicans.
The Romance languages all stem from Latin and include Spanish, French, Italian, etc., and often include some Celtic as does English. Not all European languages stem from Latin though. In fact, most of them do not. Some people speak a form of Germanic, including English. The biggest portion, however, speak some form of Balto-Slavic.
Yes, guns helped a lot, but swords were still in heavy use at the time. And all conquerors did and do quite well no matter the weapon as the one who has the superior weapons is 99% of the time the one doing the attacking. (cf. United States of America).
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I am always confused (or amused) of who identifies as latino or Hispanic. What counts? The language you speak, the country you came from or where you ancestors came from, or where the person, who is categorized as Hispanic or latino, immigrated to?
Isn't it all a kabuki theater to pander to someone's self-declared identity or genetically determined tribe considering the degree of combinations of ethnicities or races gobbled up in one's dna and all the migrations having taken place from your ancestors and yourself until today?
I just wonder, if my son would produce a child with a native "Hispanic" woman from Mexico, what that child would be? Hispanic, African, Native American or Caucasian European? If you ask me, it's the stupidest thing to try to determine and even more stupid to determine for a politician to which part of the dna of that person they should pander to. But of course they have nothing better to do than that.
when I was growing up in Central Florida, the majority of the Spanish population in Tampa was from Spain and they did not want to be grouped with Cubans or South Americans.
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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
While NY has the largest Cuban population outside of Florida (and Cuba, of course), in New York the largest Latino populations would be Puerto Rican and Dominican, then Mexican and probably Colombian. Not that many Cubans compared to what it used to be. I think I read they have moved to New Jersey.
And I have to disagree with your assessment of Rubio's Spanish speaking ability. He is completely fluent and speaks it with no American accent whatsoever, he speaks like a native speaker. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, has more trouble, when he speaks Spanish he speaks it correctly but he is not comfortable or fluent.
I am a native speaker of Spanish, have a degree in Spanish education, taught Spanish both to native speakers and as a second language, so I pay very close attetion to these matters. I have just watched several videos of both Rubio and Cruz to make sure I was remembering right.
PS I first watched Cruz when all that brouhaha about him answering Rubio in Spanish in a debate and everyone saying Cruz had used an incorrect word was completely wrong. I even remember the word: diselo. There was even a diary at DK demolishing Cruz and his use of the word. The only problem was that the diarist had confused the word with dicelo, which is archaic and would have been wrong-ish.
When you say Rubio speaks like a native speaker, do you mean a native Cuban or a native Mexican?
I'm not fluent, but I enjoy many Mexican friends in California and the Southwest — not to mention Mexico. While none have ever mentioned Rubio's grammar which I assume is very good, they are appalled by his Cuban accent. Telemundo is certainly not their thing. One friend was dismayed to discover I played the channel in the background, hoping to pick up more of the language. He was concerned that I would pick up the pronunciation, which is apparently unflattering. Rubio is a cultural outsider to the nation's majority Hispanic population, IMO. Cruz, of course, speaks Texan.
Again, I don't have a good ear for Spanish. I am a cultural observer by inclination. I bow to your expertise and thank you for your informative comment.
others here can correct me if Im wrong but they kinda hate each other, lol. (Cuban vs Mexican, also PR and most others under the demographic umbrella) Not real hate, but there is long standing rivalries and each thinks their 'version' (accent, culture, anything) is better than the other's.
Theres a lot of class stuff in the mix as well.
Rubio and Cruz are both Cuban-American. Rubio from Miami and Cruz in Texas (via Canada).
Wish I had a whole 'nother lifetime to study history and anthropology all day!
One told me Cubans sound like they have a marble in their mouths. Likewise Puerto Ricans. They do like Spanish spoken by Venezuelans and are intrigued by Spaniards, once they get past the lisp.
Anyway, the point was that there really is no "Hispanic" vote, per se. Especially after the Bush years. And I doubt they would be moved by a Rubio candidacy, even though Republicans are convinced he's an Hispanic magnet.
I understand the Cuban-American distinction. Most of my Mexican friends in the US are "Mexican-Americans," some for many generations. But they refer to themselves as Mexican and continue to speak Spanish at home for pleasure and laughter. They identify as simply "Mexican." It's a matter of cultural identity.
Anthropology is one of my passions, as well. I generally pretend I'm doing field work all the time. It's altered my perceptions quite a bit.
don't necessarily vote in huge numbers. (according to polls I hear quoted on one of my regular XM political programs)
I 'believe' that the hope of the Dem Party Leadership is that millenials, or their offspring, will eventually break that pattern.
Of course, as far as some of them not voting Democratic, from my experience (when we lived in Latin America), and my considerably more limited experience today, some Latinos are relatively conservative--both politically (some are quite entrepreneurial-minded), and regarding some social/wedge issues.
Given enough time, I think that Bernie could turn that around.
But FSC, she's just too uninspiring--for anybody!
Mollie
"I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive."--Gilda Radner, Comedienne
Was Tx before or after The. Huge. Huerta. Lie? I don't recall.
Here in Tx, you announce verbally which of the two parties you're voting for. They scan your ID, then give you a number you have to enter into the totally anonymous voting machine (cough, hack, vomit).
In other Tx places, I've been told you go to a certain polling station for one, or a certain place for the other.
I'm always so proud and happy to watch in action those few, valuable people who will not swallow a load of bullshit and will not be dictated to by their "betters," as Hillary and the Democratic Party clearly believe they are. Way to go, East L.A.!
Vote count, voting machines...
On a very anectodotal level, in my county, not a single person in county level positions was a democrat. So, if you wanted a say in who was going to be your county commissioner or your precinct justice of the peace, you had to vote republican.
In state wide races, there was a dem candidate for Agriculture Commissioner, and I think rail road commissioner, and possibly 2 appellate court races.
To vote for Bernie, I had to give up any vote for locals whom I know personally, and whom I really like, no matter what their party affiliation.
So, on primary day, you had to commit to Bernie, a virtual unknown, and give up any vote on how your local property taxes are assessed, how your garbage is disposed, and how many sheriff's deputies would be hired.
I will assume people had to make a very hard choice, and they had to vote for the local guy, a life long democrat, who joined the republican party to get elected.
Of our 4 county commissioners, the agenda and budget controllers, 3 were dems last election. Of our 4 justices of the peace, 4 were dems last election, all 4 are repubs now.
Our repub district attorney was a district judge for 16 years, a DA before that for 6 years, a County attorney for 6 years before that, as a dem.
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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
They did mention the unhappiness with HRC over the Honduras coup. But made sure to include a former State Dept. person to assure everyone that HRC had done no wrong.
Their conclusion was that POTUS was where the buck should stop.
Disgusting.
which can mean to handle or take care of something, but also to hide or conceal. In corporate journalism (which apparently now includes NPR), both purposes are inextricably combined.
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The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
I know, i know, she's smarter than Drumph, but they are cut from the same elitist/corporatist cloth. His cloth came as diaper, hers was legal-eagle pant suit in the Wal-Mart board room. Still the same weave.
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21st Century America: The distracted, superficail perception of a virtual reality.
Not a sucker punch, but quite deliberate attack. Someone needs to post that every time she says something about violence at trump rallies.
So after they got all the protesters out, what did she have left in the way of supporters? 10?
One would hope some of them went home and looked up Honduras and Berta Caceres.
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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
It is obvious HRC has a serious problem in east LA with Hispanic voters
A problem that may well be playing out on Hispanic Medja ... My espanol is nowhere near bueno enough to listen to these shows
What is telling is what is happening on dem web blogs (like the GOS) where the community of PoC are viciously attacking BERNIE for what happened at that HRC rally and labeling the east LA protesters as white BERNIEBROS. And the only thing they are outraged over is some little child that was brought to tears because this mean bernieBros yelled at the kid.
Meanwhile the number of FUCK WHITEY diaries and commenters is steadily increasing and to make matters worse an openly avowed ANTI SEMITIC commentor is now considered protected from any and all comments pointing out that this person IS a vocal anti Semite
AND the leader of the pack of Bernie haters clearly posted that the goal of The GOS is to attract more PoC and fewer WHITE people which was funny because that has been the goal for the last 8 years and it ain't happening.
so now we have a hard corp HRC web blog basically supporting the twin message of Fuck WHITEY and Fuck Jews. (Sigh)
And dismissing the anger of east LA Hispanics as nothing but bernieBros
sure looks like a race war GE campaign season taking shape to me
That's her campaign's thrust: get people labeled as racists, sexists, brown, black, etc.; tell 'em the other guy is against you; make 'em vote their prejudices. She lies and gets an army of surrogates to tell the same lies. She did it in 2008 too, with her anti-black crap ("Hard working people, white people, vote for me.""Winning South Carolina doesn't mean anything; Jesse Jackson did it.") It was pretty obvious the black vote would be Obama's, so she did a 180 and pandered in the other direction. She spreads hatred for personal gain. She is a nasty piece of work. I can't believe she will be the Democratic nominee. It's like a horrible nightmare.
Thanks for posting the video. Enjoyable watching a Hellery staged event descend into chaos. She can't even fill a high school gym in a huge city like LA.
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Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
and fills an arena with 7,000 screaming supporters, many turned away by the fire marshal. Huntington has a population of about 48,000. Los Angeles? Almost 40 times that at 19,000,000. She is perhaps the most uninspiring candidate imaginable.
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"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Comments
More Militarized streets
Like Cheney, Killary doesn't like being protested. Protested her once already and that got violent due to her security goons.
It's going to be hard times ahead. Hardcore street action is going to be met with much more "force".
Thank you for this. I thought protesting Rove, Bush, Cheney, Rice and Fleet Week was rough.. .
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Not surprising
I hope people understand that somebody's gonna get hurt in these things, going forward. Perhaps even killed.
And you know what? There are many who came before me that laid down their lives to try to free us from the chains of the greedy. If I have to return the favor or "pay it forward", so be it.
There will probably be...
..."Free Speech Zones" in Philly.
Nature is my religion; the earth is my temple.
with water cannons
seen those here in Portland.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
OT, dewly notid, but I likes yer avi pic!
I love frogs. Love spiders too. Pretty much anything that eats bugs! Chickens and bats count.
Ironic, no? Independence Hall, the Constitution, First Amendment
Someone over at TOP used to have “Where’s my habeas corpus?” as their sig line. The situation in Philly is gonna be like, “Where’s our First Amendment?”
I believe that someone
is our own sharazade.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Huh. I do believe you’re right.
My memory just isn’t what it used to be.
Polls have her losing to Trump.....
Does anybody like Hillary besides Chelsea, Wall Street and the yahoos at dailykos?
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Most of her committed are voting out of fear.
Fear of Republicans or whatever else Establishment Dems programmed them to fear over at DK Labs.
As many as half of all her supporters — according to a Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Thursday — are actually voting to stop Donald "Boogyman" Trump. Democrats and Republicans alike.
Of course, half of all Americans who plan to vote for Trump — Republicans and Democrats alike — are actually voting to stop Hillary "Boogywoman" Clinton.
The Independents and Millennials — together larger than any party — do not have a candidate in the 2016 race, and favor neither Hillary nor Trump.
It's the 2016 US Identity Hate Elections — and it's starting to sound like an appropriate event to me, a fitting event to commemorate the collapse of both corrupt Parties, along with the rapid expansion of politically unshackled Americans.
________________________
What's the electoral breakdown?
Remember that the Presidential election is actually fifty separate elections.
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
This time, she may not be "likeable enough"
Some inspired hand-made signs on display there. Thanks for this post.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
My favorite was
Deport Hillary
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
So I got a question.
Clearly the Latino community in much of CA is not going to break for HRH. My question is, where was the Latino community in TX? Why did Bernie lose so big there? Is there a difference in the character of the two communities, or is it just later in the race and voters are better informed?
Help me out here. Bernie's loos in TX really bothered me, especially since he won in Oklahoma, which is similar in a lot of ways.
The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
Good question, maggid
I'd love the answer too, as I voted for Bernie in Tx. I am sooo going to take this video to work and show it to one Hispanic guy I know of who said he was going to wear a "Fuck Trump" tee shirt to the polls, and I explained how they could keep him from voting if he did.
Side note: after borrowing a small truck out of fear of flooding in Houston, I was notified by a black guy who loved it, and the entire break room who hated it, that it was sporting a Trump bumper sticker! I was so embarrassed! I got the guy I reference above to type up and print out a sign en Espanol that the truck was borrowed and that I'm not a Trump supporter.
I wonder if he knows about Berta. He will now, if he didn't before. Then he'll know about Stein too if Bernie doesn't win the contested convention.
I suspect that the Hispanic community in Texas
has a low voter turnout because they've given up on politics. With some justification, I might add.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
There have been reports
that some members of the Latino community have been reluctant to respond to polls out of fear that they're actually ICE agents in disguise looking to nab undocumented relatives. Could be voting was also suppressed in TX for the same reasons. I wouldn't put it past Trump's goons to hang out at polling places looking for targets.
I certainly wouldn't put that past
Billary either. What better way to depress turnout?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
It is interesting
Bernie won the Hispanic wards in Chicago overwhelmingly. I believe he did well in Milwaukee too? But I believe he did not do so well in NY.
It's true right now like it was back then. The old devils are at it again. When I say devil you know who I mean these animals in the dark malicious politicians with nefarious schemes charlatans and crooked cops. - 'Old Devils' William Elliot Whitmore
Rigged vote in NY.
People are being indicted for it as we speak.
The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.
NY was stolen
I don't really draw any conclusions about voters' preferences in NY because I'm pretty sure NY was stolen. Lots of weird shit went on there.
“Wall Street on Parade” columnists agree with you 100%.
New York does elections like it does Wall Street: with its finger on the scale
NY, AZ, IO, CO, IL, and a few more I can't remember.
This election was as crooked as anything in the ME. "
HillarySaddam wins b 98%."I maintain she is illegitimate, worse than Bush. Take your pick. Unless there is a strategy for a protest vote laid out that can be seen and heard even if not reported, it leaves me with the lesser of evils and it isn't Hillary.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
In 1964 we all breathed a sigh of relief when Goldwater was
defeated in a landslide. People had convinced themselves Goldwater was dangerous—that he’d make bad decisions on matters of war and peace.
Bad decisions on matters of war and peace . . . I and my draft-age cohort thought we’d all dodged a bullet, but as we quickly found out, the joke was on us.
There are two separate Hispanic populations in the US
They can vote very differently. They speak very different dialects. They all tend toward conservative. It's a catholic thing.
What they call Hispanic in New York are largely Puerto Ricans and Cubans. They migrated from islands off the east coast of the US.
In the rest of the US, Hispanics generally migrated across land from Central America or Mexico. Many of them are indigenous to the west US, when the US seized Northern Mexico by force and drew a new border, bisecting that nation.
I am amused when my New York friends speak about Hispanic attitudes, thinking they are referring to all American Hispanics. They are actually talking about Puerto Ricans or Cubans — the only Hispanics they know.
Cruz and Rubio have nothing in common with the indigenous Hispanics of America. Their Spanish sounds garbled and gargled, compared to the Spanish spoken by Julian Castro, for example, who thus resonates with majority of Hispanics in the US States. George and Jeb Bush also speak the Spanish of the Land and both enjoyed Hispanic support, as a result.
Thanks, good point,
having lived in Miami, i was at one point part of a small congregation that had immigrants from EVERY SINGLE South and Central American country except Paraguay. So i get the immense diversity of what we North Americans lump together as "Hispanic". However, by your reasoning CA and TX should have some what similar mixes of Hispanics from different backgrounds, which brings me back to my question...
The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
Actually more than two.
Hispanics in NM do not fit into either category as they came directly from Spain rather than up from Mexico. Also there is are some large distinctions between those who came from Mexico (at different times) and from Central or South America. In other words, they are as diverse as the rest of the American population. Politicians cannot see that for some reason, other than elite blindness.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Yes. They are not monolithic.
Now that I think of it, I've never believed in that demographic. It is nuanced, as you say. Catholicism has a greater influence.
Having lived on both coasts, I do regard east coast Latinos as a completely different demographic with very different politics. The New York Hispanic vote is culturally unique and not representative of the nation's Hispanics, who continue to evolve politically.
Regarding the Spanish living in your state, they are Hispanics, of course. They are technically Latin American in the same way that the ethnic French in Quebec are. According to our Anglo Overlords.
LOL, my mother would bury you under her cactus garden
for such blasphemy. THE family (my mother's) came from Spain, and she really takes umbrage toward anyone who would put her into any group that was not of direct Spanish heritage. She does differentiate from Hispanics and those who are not directly from Spain--Mexico and Latin America, ya see. = )
I was born and raised in San Diego, so my mother made sure that I did not learn Spanish as a child because she didn't want people to think I was Mexican. A different kind of racism, I guess. Nobody really would have as I was raised so completely white bread that it took me until adulthood to realize I was half Hispanic. = )
Most of my mother's family is in NM, and I spent 15 years there, and there is a definite difference in the way of thinking and life style of other Hispanics/Latinx that I have known. Heck, I even make enchiladas as a casserole rather than rolled.
Yes, Catholicism is probably the one unifying aspect between the various groups, but even that has some different nuances. (e.g., the saints are somewhat different in importance and the Virgin Mary is seen differently--Lady of Guadalupe vs Lady of Fatima.)
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
You're right about that distinction.
Your mother is indigenous to Europe, like the majority of Americans are. Others are indigenous to Asia or Africa. Quite a few speak Spanish for one reason or another, but they are not considered Hispanic.
Generally, Hispanics are genetically Native Americans. Some have a female ancestor that mated with one of the Spanish invaders that came to steal their gold. Many Hispanics are also fully indigenous native Americans whose ancestors came to the American continent 30 to 50 thousand years ago. They happen to speak Spanish.
Western hemisphere nations that have national languages other than English are called "Latin" referring to European languages. Latin Americans. Those non-Anglo European languages came to the Western Hemisphere rather recently. They arrived immediately after Europeans invented the gun, making pillaging and genocide and slavery easy.
I have not looked it up, but
a reasonable explanation of why people of Asia or Africa may speak Spanish (other than later conquests in some of those areas, like the Philippines) is that the Moors conquered Spain for several centuries and they may have spread the language.
Uh, no. Hispanics are people from a Spanish speaking country such as Spain or the Latin american countries, sans Brazil which speaks Portuguese. Native Americans (who originated mostly from the Huns, see Haplogroup Q) learned Spanish from the Conquistadors. People who married Native Americans were generally called mestizos, until they became part of the dominant culture of which ever country they were in, e.g., Mexico/Mexicans.
The Romance languages all stem from Latin and include Spanish, French, Italian, etc., and often include some Celtic as does English. Not all European languages stem from Latin though. In fact, most of them do not. Some people speak a form of Germanic, including English. The biggest portion, however, speak some form of Balto-Slavic.
Yes, guns helped a lot, but swords were still in heavy use at the time. And all conquerors did and do quite well no matter the weapon as the one who has the superior weapons is 99% of the time the one doing the attacking. (cf. United States of America).
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Very nicely done.
Thanks for the intel transfer.
thanks, Pluto, now where does Markos fit in?
I am always confused (or amused) of who identifies as latino or Hispanic. What counts? The language you speak, the country you came from or where you ancestors came from, or where the person, who is categorized as Hispanic or latino, immigrated to?
Isn't it all a kabuki theater to pander to someone's self-declared identity or genetically determined tribe considering the degree of combinations of ethnicities or races gobbled up in one's dna and all the migrations having taken place from your ancestors and yourself until today?
I just wonder, if my son would produce a child with a native "Hispanic" woman from Mexico, what that child would be? Hispanic, African, Native American or Caucasian European? If you ask me, it's the stupidest thing to try to determine and even more stupid to determine for a politician to which part of the dna of that person they should pander to. But of course they have nothing better to do than that.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Similarly
when I was growing up in Central Florida, the majority of the Spanish population in Tampa was from Spain and they did not want to be grouped with Cubans or South Americans.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Puerto Rican and Cuban are the largest Latino populations in FL
While NY has the largest Cuban population outside of Florida (and Cuba, of course), in New York the largest Latino populations would be Puerto Rican and Dominican, then Mexican and probably Colombian. Not that many Cubans compared to what it used to be. I think I read they have moved to New Jersey.
And I have to disagree with your assessment of Rubio's Spanish speaking ability. He is completely fluent and speaks it with no American accent whatsoever, he speaks like a native speaker. Ted Cruz, on the other hand, has more trouble, when he speaks Spanish he speaks it correctly but he is not comfortable or fluent.
I am a native speaker of Spanish, have a degree in Spanish education, taught Spanish both to native speakers and as a second language, so I pay very close attetion to these matters. I have just watched several videos of both Rubio and Cruz to make sure I was remembering right.
PS I first watched Cruz when all that brouhaha about him answering Rubio in Spanish in a debate and everyone saying Cruz had used an incorrect word was completely wrong. I even remember the word: diselo. There was even a diary at DK demolishing Cruz and his use of the word. The only problem was that the diarist had confused the word with dicelo, which is archaic and would have been wrong-ish.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.
Thanks for the insight.
When you say Rubio speaks like a native speaker, do you mean a native Cuban or a native Mexican?
I'm not fluent, but I enjoy many Mexican friends in California and the Southwest — not to mention Mexico. While none have ever mentioned Rubio's grammar which I assume is very good, they are appalled by his Cuban accent. Telemundo is certainly not their thing. One friend was dismayed to discover I played the channel in the background, hoping to pick up more of the language. He was concerned that I would pick up the pronunciation, which is apparently unflattering. Rubio is a cultural outsider to the nation's majority Hispanic population, IMO. Cruz, of course, speaks Texan.
Again, I don't have a good ear for Spanish. I am a cultural observer by inclination. I bow to your expertise and thank you for your informative comment.
Rubio is Cuban (dash American)
others here can correct me if Im wrong but they kinda hate each other, lol. (Cuban vs Mexican, also PR and most others under the demographic umbrella) Not real hate, but there is long standing rivalries and each thinks their 'version' (accent, culture, anything) is better than the other's.
Theres a lot of class stuff in the mix as well.
Rubio and Cruz are both Cuban-American. Rubio from Miami and Cruz in Texas (via Canada).
Wish I had a whole 'nother lifetime to study history and anthropology all day!
Heh. They definitely feel "indifferent" about Cubans.
One told me Cubans sound like they have a marble in their mouths. Likewise Puerto Ricans. They do like Spanish spoken by Venezuelans and are intrigued by Spaniards, once they get past the lisp.
Anyway, the point was that there really is no "Hispanic" vote, per se. Especially after the Bush years. And I doubt they would be moved by a Rubio candidacy, even though Republicans are convinced he's an Hispanic magnet.
I understand the Cuban-American distinction. Most of my Mexican friends in the US are "Mexican-Americans," some for many generations. But they refer to themselves as Mexican and continue to speak Spanish at home for pleasure and laughter. They identify as simply "Mexican." It's a matter of cultural identity.
Anthropology is one of my passions, as well. I generally pretend I'm doing field work all the time. It's altered my perceptions quite a bit.
My understanding is that, generally-speaking, Latinos
don't necessarily vote in huge numbers. (according to polls I hear quoted on one of my regular XM political programs)
I 'believe' that the hope of the Dem Party Leadership is that millenials, or their offspring, will eventually break that pattern.
Of course, as far as some of them not voting Democratic, from my experience (when we lived in Latin America), and my considerably more limited experience today, some Latinos are relatively conservative--both politically (some are quite entrepreneurial-minded), and regarding some social/wedge issues.
Given enough time, I think that Bernie could turn that around.
But FSC, she's just too uninspiring--for anybody!
Mollie
"I think dogs are the most amazing creatures; they give unconditional love. For me they are the role model for being alive."--Gilda Radner, Comedienne
National Mill Dog Rescue
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
I'd venture a guess that
it had to do with vote counting, but what do I know?
And also Huerta
Was Tx before or after The. Huge. Huerta. Lie? I don't recall.
Here in Tx, you announce verbally which of the two parties you're voting for. They scan your ID, then give you a number you have to enter into the totally anonymous voting machine (cough, hack, vomit).
In other Tx places, I've been told you go to a certain polling station for one, or a certain place for the other.
Thank you for posting this.
I'm always so proud and happy to watch in action those few, valuable people who will not swallow a load of bullshit and will not be dictated to by their "betters," as Hillary and the Democratic Party clearly believe they are. Way to go, East L.A.!
Twain Disciple
Hooray for East LA!
Those protesters were really great!
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
We didn't have enough time in Texas . . .
. . . to get things going for the primary.
For the general election we will have more time. The democratic party is pretty lame here, and all of their efforts go to Hillary.
Thank you so much for sharing this video!!!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Beats me.
Vote count, voting machines...
On a very anectodotal level, in my county, not a single person in county level positions was a democrat. So, if you wanted a say in who was going to be your county commissioner or your precinct justice of the peace, you had to vote republican.
In state wide races, there was a dem candidate for Agriculture Commissioner, and I think rail road commissioner, and possibly 2 appellate court races.
To vote for Bernie, I had to give up any vote for locals whom I know personally, and whom I really like, no matter what their party affiliation.
So, on primary day, you had to commit to Bernie, a virtual unknown, and give up any vote on how your local property taxes are assessed, how your garbage is disposed, and how many sheriff's deputies would be hired.
I will assume people had to make a very hard choice, and they had to vote for the local guy, a life long democrat, who joined the republican party to get elected.
Of our 4 county commissioners, the agenda and budget controllers, 3 were dems last election. Of our 4 justices of the peace, 4 were dems last election, all 4 are repubs now.
Our repub district attorney was a district judge for 16 years, a DA before that for 6 years, a County attorney for 6 years before that, as a dem.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
NPR just did a dishonest piece "covering" this.
They did mention the unhappiness with HRC over the Honduras coup. But made sure to include a former State Dept. person to assure everyone that HRC had done no wrong.
Their conclusion was that POTUS was where the buck should stop.
Disgusting.
chuck utzman
TULSI 2020
NPR
I can't remember when I stopped listening to them. But, holy cow, are they bought and paid for. Worse than disgusting.
They get some of their support from Koch Industries /NT
Any stained glass afficionados? Please check out my website: www.masterpieceglass.net
I like your use of the word 'cover' here,
which can mean to handle or take care of something, but also to hide or conceal. In corporate journalism (which apparently now includes NPR), both purposes are inextricably combined.
The marriage between capitalism and democracy is over. –Slavoj Zizek
She should have been eating a taco bowl as she stepped ...
from the limo. Sheesh!
I know, i know, she's smarter than Drumph, but they are cut from the same elitist/corporatist cloth. His cloth came as diaper, hers was legal-eagle pant suit in the Wal-Mart board room. Still the same weave.
21st Century America: The distracted, superficail perception of a virtual reality.
There's even a sign for Brooksley Borne, a hero
of mine. She's the opposite of Hilary.
To thine own self be true.
Pander Express comes to East L.A.
And on Cinco de Mayo no less. I'm surprised she didn't put on a fake mustache and a sombrero.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
#FueraHillary. We Never Forget: Berta Caceres
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
Shades of Trump rallies past!
Not a sucker punch, but quite deliberate attack. Someone needs to post that every time she says something about violence at trump rallies.
So after they got all the protesters out, what did she have left in the way of supporters? 10?
One would hope some of them went home and looked up Honduras and Berta Caceres.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I FEAR we are headed for an election that will reignite
UGLY race wars
It is obvious HRC has a serious problem in east LA with Hispanic voters
A problem that may well be playing out on Hispanic Medja ... My espanol is nowhere near bueno enough to listen to these shows
What is telling is what is happening on dem web blogs (like the GOS) where the community of PoC are viciously attacking BERNIE for what happened at that HRC rally and labeling the east LA protesters as white BERNIEBROS. And the only thing they are outraged over is some little child that was brought to tears because this mean bernieBros yelled at the kid.
Meanwhile the number of FUCK WHITEY diaries and commenters is steadily increasing and to make matters worse an openly avowed ANTI SEMITIC commentor is now considered protected from any and all comments pointing out that this person IS a vocal anti Semite
AND the leader of the pack of Bernie haters clearly posted that the goal of The GOS is to attract more PoC and fewer WHITE people which was funny because that has been the goal for the last 8 years and it ain't happening.
so now we have a hard corp HRC web blog basically supporting the twin message of Fuck WHITEY and Fuck Jews. (Sigh)
And dismissing the anger of east LA Hispanics as nothing but bernieBros
sure looks like a race war GE campaign season taking shape to me
Orwell was an optimist
Hillary likes to foment race wars
That's her campaign's thrust: get people labeled as racists, sexists, brown, black, etc.; tell 'em the other guy is against you; make 'em vote their prejudices. She lies and gets an army of surrogates to tell the same lies. She did it in 2008 too, with her anti-black crap ("Hard working people, white people, vote for me.""Winning South Carolina doesn't mean anything; Jesse Jackson did it.") It was pretty obvious the black vote would be Obama's, so she did a 180 and pandered in the other direction. She spreads hatred for personal gain. She is a nasty piece of work. I can't believe she will be the Democratic nominee. It's like a horrible nightmare.
Twain Disciple
Trump seems to be making a play for WHITE working class
Voters in western states who currently support Bernie
Meanwhile these same voters are being dismissed by the DNC
Are we seeing a black vs white GE brewing ?
Hope not.
Orwell was an optimist
Emotions are running high. We’re starting to see comments here
as well, along the lines of, if you don’t agree with me you must be an insensitive white person.
What essay was that? n/t
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
The one where the author wonders what if they did vote for Trump
http://caucus99percent.com/content/big-al-wonders-what-if-i-voted-trump
Oh ok. That one.
I didn't bother. Just from the title it looked like it was meant to start a fire.
Thanks.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Perhaps the wisest move. n/t
I particularly enjoyed learning there that
"We don't need no LIARS on the front page!" from what must be surely one of the biggest tools in the whole GOS shed.
Berta Cáceres may get her revenge from the grave
Thanks for posting the video. Enjoyable watching a Hellery staged event descend into chaos. She can't even fill a high school gym in a huge city like LA.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
While Bernie comes to Huntington, WV
and fills an arena with 7,000 screaming supporters, many turned away by the fire marshal. Huntington has a population of about 48,000. Los Angeles? Almost 40 times that at 19,000,000. She is perhaps the most uninspiring candidate imaginable.
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey