The Now or Never Moment

Joining the Green Party (GP) en masse may be seen as similar to coming here from TOP. The main difference, of course, is that the GP is a political party that has tried to directly influence national policy rather than indirectly reporting, commenting on, and discussing it. It has a larger membership that has held true to their beliefs through 16 years of mockery, approbation, guilt tripping, and shunning. I would imagine that the current membership feels that they have earned the right to determine their party’s priorities and direction. While those may be largely in line with ours, it would be surprising if they matched well enough to avoid tension and, perhaps, the feeling that THEY are being taken over. It is good that their Presidential candidate has approached ours for we have much in common. It seems to this writer that any progress beyond that point would begin with a canvassing of the GP membership to see how far they are willing to go. I know that I would expect that from my party if I was them.

Creating a brand new party has the glowing attraction of instant gratification. Boom! You got it. All things are new and there are no old things to deal with. In the past, this has always required a solid leadership in place before the birth: someone to coalesce around, sign the necessary documents, establish (!) an organization, settle differences. And then you are another third party trying to demonstrate enough market share to become viable. Counting the cost is one thing, assembling the votes is quite another. It seems to me that a third party is not worth the effort unless it starts on Day One with a least 35% of participating (if not eligible) voters. This would be around , what, 35 million? If the current split is 30% Dem, 30% Reepo, and 40% Other, then that would mean starting with at least 40% of the Dems and 55% of the Other. The Dems would be crippled.

Then there is the Tea Party (TP) model of taking over from within. They took over their party in three years district by district in regions of rabid rw partisanship. In addition to advocating for Bernie’s Way in progressive regions, Bernie has demonstrated a model that might well work by selectively primarying party leadership (think DWS in Fla) through bombarding that district with phone banking and small donations from outside. Some districts will be more vulnerable to this technique than others, of course, but if it happened 30 or 40 times, then it should encourage some current House members leaning towards Bernie to declare with them. That might well be enough to send the message…it did to John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi is a keen observer. On the national level, a vote is, after all, a vote. Tell the truth now, wouldn’t you like to look out over Hillary’s sea of blank stares and hear their slack mouths chanting over and over again: “Ber-nie….Ber-NIE...BER-NIE!!”? I know I would.

I am not advocating for any one way over another. If my writing suggests a preference or a bias, then it is not definitive. I will go where this progressive movement can be continued and built upon until every single change that Bernie has suggested is enacted into law.

I believe that the now or never moment will be here before we know it. It always is.

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I have said before on this site, more than once, that I want to see what Bernie calls for as next steps. That said, I am concerned that a new party would coalesce around just one individual. i do believe that it must be a political party and not just a movement.

Movements come and go without ever gaining a consensus and momentum for change. OWS had very well defined stricture and goals but it didn't seem to me to have an action plan.

Thanks for this blog and I hope we get some concrete responses.

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thrownstone's picture

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

enhydra lutris's picture

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

thrownstone's picture

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

I don't think any of this is either or. I think everything should be on the table including nukes. We should continue to coalesce around what works and push from all directions. We need to overwhelm them just like a concert with open seating. I haven't listened t his cspan speech. off to do that now.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Bisbonian's picture

last election cycles. (I think Ralph Nader ran on the "Peace and Freedom", or some such, one of those times in between, there.) I registered as a Dem only to vote for Bernie, and switched back where I belong a couple weeks ago. If I can vote for Bernie in the General, I will. If not, I will gladly vote for Jill Stein. It would be cool if they were both on the ticket, in whichever order pleased the both of them the most. Then I could vote for both.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

thrownstone's picture

the Green Party?

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

featheredsprite's picture

would be a good thing. But it would be a takeover. I don't know how they would feel about it.

I think Jill just wants the revolution to happen and is willing to make accommodations to make that happen. The rest of the Greens might feel differently. Right now, the Green Party works like a federation between groups. It isn't really a national organization. We need a national organization.

But we're going to have to do something.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

Bisbonian's picture

probably not. My point is, though, that I'm not for taking over the group. I am for working with the group.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Galtisalie's picture

I came to the same tentative POV about a year ago when Clinton failed to come out against Fast Track: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/17/1385162/-Anti-Capitalist-Meetup...

Or if you'd prefer to not go to TOP: https://gardenvarietydemocraticsocialist.com/2015/05/21/solidarity-in-th...

I'm extremely reluctantly on the side of fomenting democratic revolution within the Democratic Party, but potentially can be persuaded otherwise.

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thrownstone's picture

Read down to the painting of the crucified along side the road. Now I need to digest.

"Maybe it is we who are dialectical dolls here, expected to live superficially without addressing our interior selves. "

I am certain that is the expectation: we need not address our interior selves, in part, because we are to be rugged individualists and, in part, because it is supposed that there is nothing there with whom we may consult. It reminds me once again what an incredible movie "The Matrix" is. The fact that human beings must needs reassure one another that, yes, indeed, we do have souls must surely be a sign of the times. It wasn't that long ago the humans would have said such a thing could never come to pass.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

Galtisalie's picture

parts about solidarity within and outside the Democratic Party are in the second half. Thank you for reading!

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progdog's picture

It was pretty long for the medium, but worth reading to the end. Thanks for linking it.

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prog - weirdo | dog - woof

thrownstone's picture

When i realized that the TPP was being used to codify issues that could NEVER get enough votes in Congress, I had learned all I needed to know about it. Even the other parties to TPP balked long and loud at the provisions protecting pharmas...why is THAT in a trade agreement? But it is still there. " Well, yes, we must pay astronomical prices for drugs cuz it says so right here in the treaty. We can't break a treaty, now can we?" (That works as long as there are no Native Americans in the crowd.)

I now have a better understanding of your stated reluctance to "foment" a revolt inside the democratic Party (even though you make such an excellent argument against forming another third party). However, I submit that there would be little or no "fomenting". No argument, no pressure, just get out of the way. "Yes, you can support whoever you want, but you will not continue to prevent others from doing so." Is it a revolution if the "rebels" outnumber the old guard or is it a merely a mid-course correction?

Hillary has taken "her" voters outside of the Party. They have repudiated core Dem principles. They are the third party. We need to somehow demonstrate that fact in an incontrovertible way.

"Hillary! Hillary! Why hast thou forsaken us?"

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

Galtisalie's picture

I'm with you!

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Lookout's picture

I think the purpose of this gathering is to deal with your questions.
http://www.thepeoplessummit.org/

It's after the primaries, but before the convention. Naomi Klein, Cornell West, and many others are involved. All may be moot if there is an indictment. I think the supers will move to Bernie if that is the case.

Bill Curry on the real news interview yesterday suggest using the tea party model to take over the party. His comment was the tea party took over in four years. Building a new party would take a decade at least. (about 15 min)
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&I...

And another gathering that might play a role is https://www.breakingthroughpower.org/a-pioneering-civic-marathon/

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

The only cudgel worth a shot is from within the party. It worked in three short years for the astroturf tea party funded by the Kochs. No reason it can't work for Bernie's (true) progressives as well. Bernie's proved that massive fundraising can be supported by voters without begging the 1% for favors with strings attached. Our political history has proved that third parties are unpopular and the two-party system is firmly entrenched. Reinventing the wheel is impossible but making it a better wheel from within is doable. As more Bernie candidates get elected to Congress and state legislatures, their power will grow to challenge the party and its business-as-usual loser policies. Jill Stein and the Greens are almost unknown, not to mention "suspect" among voters. Going with them is a noble yet loser proposition.

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grassroots movement isn't only about how it's funded (although the rivers of cash from the fracking Kochs and their lookalikes -I'm talking about YOU, the DeVos's and Gilbert, the Maroons, and every single fracking business "roundtable" and Chamber of Commerce, in MI, you bastards. These assholes are why we got a psychotic reindeer farmer elected as a US Congress Rep!) by a behemoth of concentrated wealth and power. Anyway, sorry about the side rant, but the issue remains-the RW has a strong organization, funded well, and with tentacles in every orifice of our commons (and that RW epithet includes, BTW, the DLC Ds) They fund "thinktanks", higher ed, and the BIG prize? MEDIA! See what control of the MSM is doing to Brazil and Venezuela? We have a tough road, but we need to prioritize, and control of the message is number one, IMO. How we get there needs to be addressed, and NO, the intertoobs are all well and good, but see how much coverage and the slant Bernie got? We need to change that, how it's done is a good question. Public control of the airwaves is the endpoint, I would imagine, but to bust through the iron curtain already in place is gonna be rough. And BTW? That is why the Greens have been so ineffective-they've been marginalized by the money Without an effective plan (like the Powell memo-look it up) the left will continue to be marginalized.

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thrownstone's picture

grassroots on a national level. But it was at the local level. Yes, the big money was a factor, but the emotions that drove it were umbrage and fear. Hopefully, Bernie has proven an alternative to big money. And it is a wonder to see the smirk on Reepo faces when they refer to the "liberal media".

If we see our movement as a correction to the excesses of Dem Party power brokers, isn't it logical to assume that the TP takeover might be the same for the Reepos? They just have a different way of expressing themselves. If we could just figure out where they are going maybe we could get there ahead of them and set up a potluck!

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

thrownstone's picture

I think that it is a curious place for Progressive Dems to meet given 1968 and how it is now. I think that the group being assembled will find a path forward and be respected as leaders.

I also agree that the Green Party has nobility...after all, they had the gumption and the strength of their own conviction to do that which daunts us. And they saw clearly what was coming.

Hillary has triangulated herself out of her own Party. That has left a vacuum (thus reinforcing the impression that Hillary sucks). She now has all of the levers at her disposal, but has lost the legitimacy to use them.

Thank you, Lookout, for the Curry link. Lots of different kinds of folks are thinking about this stuff.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

Lady Libertine's picture

thanks for this post, I almost missed it.

Ive been thinking about all this too and just don't have time to read up on all of it. Just watched the Curry video that was somewhat helpful. And reinforced my thinking - at this point I just don't see a third party solution working. And GP has its own set of problems. So I guess this next month or two will get verrrry interesting!

I guess - I dont really want to say this but - Im a bit nervous/worried with the Bernie "movement". If you think about it, it really is already a huge catch-all coalition of people, not just highly involved activists like us in this place, but you also have a lot of new young and new all ages, and {sigh} just a whole lot of moving parts ... it needs Bernie to be the glue. If he does - or is even perceived to do - blatant support of HRC as the ultimate nominee because TRUMP!!, that will really throw a wrench in the works. The best answer to that worry is.... he has to be the nominee! Wink

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thrownstone's picture

those who are not listened to. It will take a while for all of us to accept other faces and voices saying the same thing. Right now, most of us are still going through some version of the "Thank God! I thought it was just me." phase and the person we are thanking for it is Bernie. The hard part coming up is to keep our eyes on the prize and off of one person or the other. Hillary no longer matters. She is just another brick in the wall.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire