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Open Thread - Thurs 23 Oct 2025 - Print What?

Print What?

Here's something I encountered a few days ago which made me happy and sad at the same time.

I was reading Cory Doctorow's new book, Enshittification (yes, he made up the word, and yes, it's now part of the modern vocabulary, I think Smile ). I will probably go into a full review of the book once I'm finished with it. In a short part of the book Doctorow writes about the enshittification of HP inkjet printers; no surprise there - HP wants to force you to buy their ink, for like 30 times more than other companies' ink products. Anyway, one of the things inkjet printers can do now, with the right kind of ink, is print electrically conductive circuits! That is so cool, from a geek point of view!


A circuit printed on paper in silver ink from this instructables.com article

Immediately after I read that section of the book, I thought, 'I gotta tell my Dad about this, he'd be so happy'. But then, of course, the knowledge that my father died half a year ago or so came into my mind right after. So, I was happy and sad at the same time.

Years ago, when I was about 10 or a bit after, Dad would bring home punch cards which had computer programs and data on them. Remember that? Computer programs and data stored via punch cards? He'd be going over the programs, looking for errors, but I was so fascinated by the cards that he started giving me the cards that contained bad code, etc. And then he took me to his work to show me the cards being used in the big machines to make circuits! A couple years after, the punch cards weren't needed. Reading about this newer way of using inkjets to print out circuits on paper and in 3-D somehow made me think of the transition from punch cards to electronic storage. Ohh, how things change and yet don't change!

Ok, Enough computer memories! Here's the open thread! What's up, whatcha doing? Reading? Thinking? Listening to? Remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Hope it's a great day for everyone. We might get some rain tomorrow, maybe even a real storm. I'm not keen about the storm, but the rain is good, very good. Finally got all the peppers and tomatoes harvested and frozen or canned. Gonna be some good eating throughout fall, winter and spring. Now, to preserve the basil! And the garlic!

So, what's up with everyone? Whatcha learning and doing?

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6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

.
.

Last time I ran out of ink on the HP, found it cheaper to replace
the printer. Went with a Canon all-in-one. They are much more
forgiving with second party cartridges (like LD Products).
Remember reading manufacturers charge about $3000/gal.
for ink. That is just pure greed. Nothing is simple anymore.

Thanks for the OT!

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7 users have voted.

Zionism is a social disease

@QMS My expensive printer crapped out, and after checking out a cheap printer that uses fairly cheap ink, and considering I needed it immediately, I bought cheap rather than order an expensive one. It is quieter, faster, takes up less desk surface, so I am good to go. I was out of copying capability for less than a business day.
I just had a client come to get a document to take to his brother to get his signature. The brother lives in Marquez, TX. According to the 2020 census, the population is 181. The client said it was a different world from here. Quiet, everyone knows everyone else, and people are friendly and helpful to one another. Lots of farming and ranching. Makes me want to go there. After all, they have the "Extreme Midget Wrestling Event".

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2 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Cassiodorus's picture

reminds me of Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine -- except of course that Doctorow is trying to explain to his readers why their consumer products and social media aren't what they wanted, and Klein was trying to show how whole countries were being ripped off by and through global financiers. The phenomenon of Klein's book, the great global ripoff, is still going on now, if Due Dissidence is to be believed:

Once upon a time I stumbled upon this author Andrew Kliman, who argued that the current phenomenon of "late capitalism" was explainable through the theory of the tendency of the rate of profit to decline, courtesy of the memory of Karl Marx, specifically of Volume 3 of Capital. Now, Marx, if the biographers are to be believed, was a serious perfectionist, refusing to release anything unless it was in his opinion just right. And, so, when he was alive, Marx's readers only got to see Volume 1 of Capital; volumes 2 and 3 were compiled by Engels from Marx's notes after Marx himself died in 1883. So Kliman is, then, spinning all sorts of theories of -- for instance -- why the 2008-2009 downturn occurred, based on something Marx didn't himself release to the public. I suppose it's interesting. It certainly shows dedication.

At any rate, the capitalists' "solution" to the problem of the declining rate of profit appears to be as follows: we'll turn business into a Mafia operation! So here in America we're a bunch of compliant rubes, and we elect kingpins like Biden or Trump, our equivalent of the character of "Junior" in The Sopranos. Every syndicate, after all, needs an old front-man.

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"'Cause everything in the world we're living in is all made up and we can make it up different" -- Carsie Blanton

enhydra lutris's picture

I run multiple browssers because each has weird idiosyncrasies and issues with specific sites and such. Meanwhile I make massive use of something called Evernote which reminds me a bit of a package I used to run in WARP ages age - it is a do anything package, database, note taking, record keeping, planning, calendar management, web clipper, etc. and yada yada yada. I do all mty OTs in it and more and generally live there. It doesn't work in ubuntu, so I use the web version. Chrome and Chromium aren't happy with it, so if I don't use it in them they crash far less often meaning that I run it in Brave and Sometimes Firefox. Yesterday, when I got up, Brave was down, and firefox had been taken over by Yahoo, literally. When I tried to load evernote in each, they wouldn't let me, closing the log-in tab as soon as I opened it. Long story short, about noon or so, they both suddenly came alive and reloaded all the tabs I had open when I knocked off the night before - mystery, no explanations of anything like that, just poof, gone, and, poof, back..

The last tine I needed Ink-jet crtridges they were much more costly than the nearby display model of an Epson ET 2850 "EcoTank" all in one cartridge free printer with a strter set of ink bottles, so I got the Epson, which uses bottled ink that you pour into reservoirs, works just fine and a set of ink bottles is pretty cheap , though I haven't had to replace any yet.

Iam familiar with the term "enshittification", but never read Doctorow's book. However, it is, imho, the natural outcome of corporate capitalism, just like the export of mature technology to the locales with the lowest all in production costs. These rules aren't part of the myth of the system, which is based on some idealized mythical society of small village life conjoined with instantaneous universal total knowledge of everything, something never really extant and certainly not today.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

QMS's picture

@enhydra lutris
.
.
I never know if it is my op sys, mac lap or
whichever site I am on that is creating havoc.
Guess it doesn't matter. Know things are getting
a lot more flukey. Easy to blame it on AI.
Planned obsolescence of our brains. Perhaps
that is why so many people spend so much time
on their handy devices? Less thinking is better. HA!

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3 users have voted.

Zionism is a social disease

usefewersyllables's picture

of how tangled our personal little network-webs can be: RFI/EMC issues that make things behave flakily.

Whenever you encounter computer flakeys, consider this one- now that cellphones, WiFi, Bluetooth, high-res monitors, and microwave ovens are truly ubiquitous. Most people never consider how nastily our tools/toys interfere with one another, and they do so *all the time*.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1oc8b9p/i_just_solved_the_str...

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4 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

QMS's picture

@usefewersyllables

tech has surpassed understanding!
At least in my field we have diagnostic
tools to figure out what the problem is.
Things within knowledge.

Listening to Hippie Soul Cafe
broadcasting out of St. John VI via Radio Garden.
Kinda cool tool. Can pick-up music the world over.

https://radio.garden/visit/saint-john/2iiDMABo

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3 users have voted.

Zionism is a social disease

usefewersyllables's picture

@QMS

When I bought my new cheapo chinese 4k TV as a high-res monitor a few weeks ago, my garage door opener and the Ring doorbell camera went offline. The even cheaper display port cable that came with the tube was the culprit- replacing it with a good, properly shielded cable solved the problem.

RFI/EMI is everywhere, especially in high-density situations like the apartment complex we are in. Keeps it interesting…

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2 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

earthling1's picture

Just tried to check it. It wouldn't come up.
I had heard it made the big time a few months ago, but this is the first time I've used it.
My son was just relating to me having his work van getting a transmission "servicing" and a brake job.
$3400 total bill, and no sales tax (Oregon) thank the FSM. They charged $1400 just to drain and flush the 6 speed automatic transmission.
Whoa! The Enshittification of dealer services. I've always known that parts and service is where dealers make their money, much like restaurants make their money on booze to go along with food (sometimes good food).
Now I can see why so many dealers are offering free service for the first year or so. They don't want you know what it costs until you are way into driving it.
The servicing costs are probably built into the MSRP.
As an aside, We have been driving our little electric Leaf for almost 10 years now, and have very few complaints. The windshield cleaner pump stopped working in year 7, but we get by without it. The battery pack has lost about 20% of charge, or 124 miles new vs 96 miles 10 years later.
We are happy enough with it that we bought another one, a newer (2025) with 4450 miles on it. It was a repo from California, so I guess we've taken advantage of the spike in failed auto loans nationwide. The guy only owned it for 9 months. A 36k car for 23k.
Did I mention it was used? I am disappointed it doesn't still have that new car smell though. This one is the top model with all the gadgets and has a range of 212 miles, more than enough for our purposes. And we kept the old one for 'round town errands and family and friends when they visit.
With the Chinese blocking rare earths and chips the price of new cars is gonna spike, IMHO. Especially when their will fewer of them built. I see VW has stopped production of the Gulf, due to chip shortages.
Who and what is next?
Really, when you get down to it, the Enshittification of the entire western world is on the abyss.
Thanks for the OT.

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3 users have voted.

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

QMS's picture

@earthling1
.
has skyrocketed in the last few years.
Not just cars. Although, if the US allowed
BYD imports from China, that would put a lid on
some of this insanity.

Had a visit to the ER last month. 4 hours cost my
insurance close to $16k. Crazy shit. But they gave me
a towel to staunch the bleeding. Self service! Had to find
a sink and mirror to figure out where to clean-up my face.

It is really insulting. What is in your wallet?

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3 users have voted.

Zionism is a social disease

soryang's picture

Thanks for the OT today!

Problem du jour:

I'm in a relatively new apartment complex maybe 5 years old. The crappy side by side stainless steel Whirlpool refrigerator freezer failed yesterday. We just threw away about $300 or more dollars worth of meat, fish, and other frozen food. I'd actually made a call on this frig not performing well about 3 months ago. They claimed we hadn't used it properly???? This doesn't amuse me because Ms. So was a professional cook for years and years. We had a small pub, and provided food service to a local working class community for a decade. We had maybe ten refrigerator/compressor driven cooling units, going at all times, for beer and food. So we have some experience with refrigerators of various kinds and maintenance issues. It just so happens I saw one of the independent appliance retailers in the community nearby advertising the exact same home kitchen whirlpool unit for just under 1800 dollars a couple of days ago. It's a US made product, so it's a piece of shit. Just talked to the tech, he said it had a few manufacturing flaws.

I bought a brand new whirlpool refrigerator freezer after our house was flooded the first time in fall 2022 to replace one of the 3 units we lost. It was about 1000 dollars or so, white, large, relatively inexpensive like the GE it replaced, basic no frill stand up. The compressor was installed improperly so it made too much noise from day one. After about three days of being unable to sleep with the intolerable noise, I made the warranty claim. Their tech rep came and looked at and said the noise was normal. We gave the freezer to the local Korean church, because nobody sleeps there, (except some older folk during the sermon) and you can't hear it from the auditorium area mostly cause the inner walls are concrete. The two LGs we bought at the same time still work even though the house flooded again 2 years later. We left one there when we sold the house. The other is in the living room in our apartment. You can barely hear an LG operate. You have to put your hand on it to check if it's on. We've never had to get one serviced. Durable goods should have a useful life of 7 years according to business accounting rules.

I don't use our HP printer much, usually I keep PDFs, unless there is some special need to paper copy. I know the print cartridge deal, they'd prefer one to sign a contract, to have cartridges delivered regularly so they can turn it into a rental income. The black cartridges are 35 dollars or more retail at the store. I don't buy color because they cost more. Even though I give it very light use, the cartridge only lasts about 3 months, if that. I think the last one lasted two months.

in a prior post, I mentioned W. Edwards Deming, and the poor quality control on US products compared to our overseas competitors, in his case, specifically Japan. In this video below from the "computer guy," he comments on technical trade issues and concludes near the end of this one, "does the US have anyone that knows how to build a factory?"

Be forewarned, Eli is kind of crude dropping the F bomb and other offensive remarks a lot, but in the two or three videos I watched of his, I liked the points he made, but I'm not a knowledgeable tech person.

Palantir CTO Demands War with China -- US China Hawks Mock Jensen Huang for Chinese Cooperation

This is another: Nexperia in China Ignores Dutch HQ -- Europe Seizing Chinese Company Creates Disaster for EU

I see he has another Nexperia video today.

I was listening to some Japanese manga OST Inuyasha the other day, and imo it was a ripoff of the theme song from Empress Qi, a fanciful but beautiful Kdrama about the Yuan Dynasty in China.

Mostly, I try to avoid the culture disputes between Asian countries. It's really one of my personal rules. This is why I generally avoid the message boards that engage in that. Maybe the Japanese licensed this very similar sounding song track. It's just that the Empress Qi sound track is probably my favorite of all time, so I recognized the melody immediately. On edit, maybe the slight variations in the melody make it safe from copyright attack, I don't know. The melody is very close to my ear. But I'm not a composer or musician.

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2 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直

earthling1's picture

@soryang
Had an older one given to us by a son-in -law in 2004, because he just wanted an icemaker and a side by side.
It was already used when he bought it, so nobody knows how old it was.
We used that old refer for 18 years (until 2022) while he went through two more of them and is having trouble with the new one.
I think we can safely remove refrigerator's from the durable goods classification.
Thanks for that beautiful melody.

PS. I still have my Whirlpool washer and dryer from 2000 Still working great (knocks on wood).

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2 users have voted.

Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

soryang's picture

@earthling1 @earthling1

I'm glad you had better luck with their appliances. At this point, I feel like we must be Lowe's favorite customers, lately we bought so many appliances there, mostly due to the floods. The old beer coolers at the pub we had years ago, were serviced from time to time, but we actually only had to replace one in ten years, I think it was a GE. This was a large glass cooler, it was maybe 7 ft wide with three glass doors. Well the old one was just taken off, and the replacement another Whirlpool, they just brought in, looks much newer. Poor Ms So gone for only nine days and her kitchen went to hell.

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2 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直

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1 user has voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981