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Open Thread - 10-17-2025 -

Morning - hope you enjoy today's collection of news.

Did not include any of the Portland drama. It is well covered at The Oregonian with a number of articles. Portland is a good spot for these dramas play out as they do every few years within political cycles. The city is not vital to the US economy, multiple major news organizations have a presence, easy access with an International airport and highways, and plenty of citizens protesting to shield primary instigators. It will probably end as all the others have with violence.

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Governments and religious practices are in an infinite dance of which has the most influence and loyalty of a population. Historical look at the different ways the West and China interact with religions. To keep the subject brief is a challenge.

Empires strike back Asia Times Oct 4, 2025 Francesco Sisci

China

The picture in China was very different. The emperor was the son of Heaven in a public religion in which public peace and stability were practical proof of heavenly favor. One didn’t have to die to see if he was in hell or paradise, as was the case with Christians or Muslims. The daily order and the food abundance in the markets were clear evidence of the emperor’s good work. There was no official religion outside this, and thus there were no real clergy. Instead, there were bureaucrats at the service of the state religion and the emperor.
...
To try to win over these new areas, the Catholic Church, then far more organized than its Protestant competitors, sent missionaries to the east. They came back with a trove of untapped culture from China that impacted the Western world in the 17th and 18th centuries. It contributed to the labor of modernity.

This culture contributed to the transformation of Europe and the emergence of modern society.
There were three sets of contributions that gave rise to modernity in the West:

From ocean voyages came: a sense of a limitless world, the discovery of discovery, the new as a positive element and no longer as a threat to an established order.
From China came: the concept of revolution, the bureaucracy and backbone of an abstract but personal state, wu wei (no proactive action), a concept that is similar to the capitalist economic theory of the invisible hand of the free market; and an ethic not dependent on religion.
From the European tradition, there was the idea of a res publica, division of powers, and the role of religion in society and the state. The concept of a personal god led to the recognition of the sanctity of each individual person.

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Venture Capitalists comprise one of the unseen guiding hands of Western culture by influencing the type of businesses eligible for obtaining funding to grow. They are an alternative funding source when a business is not able to access loans through banks, Small business Administration (SBA) or money needs exceeds ability to self-fund.

The video is an overview of a Bloomberg article on prominent venture capitalists visit to China.

Top Venture Capitalists tour China, declare Western energy firms "uninvestable" (10:54 mjn)

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China is showing the WTO who’s in charge Russia Times Oct 13, 2025

When Chinese Premier Li Qiang announced in late September, on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly, that China would no longer seek new “special and differential treatment” (SDT) in current or future World Trade Organization (WTO) negotiations, the statement seemed, at first glance, like a modest policy clarification. Yet beneath the surface, this decision carries profound implications not only for China’s global role but also for the future of multilateral trade governance.

To grasp the significance, one must recall what SDT means. Within the WTO framework, developing members have historically been afforded preferential treatment, ranging from lower levels of obligations to longer transition periods for implementation, technical assistance, and specific provisions to safeguard their trade interests. These flexibilities were designed to level the playing field between advanced and developing economies, acknowledging the disparities in capacity and development.
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China’s accession to the WTO in 2001 was the single most consequential trade event of the early 21st century. WTO membership turbocharged Beijing’s integration into global markets, granting it privileged access to supply chains, boosting exports, and accelerating domestic reforms toward a more market-oriented economy. This transformation was not confined within China’s borders. It reshaped the global economy by expanding the world market, making consumer goods cheaper, lowering inflationary pressures, and creating sophisticated cross-border production networks.
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So why, at this juncture, did Beijing choose to forgo additional SDT privileges? The decision is best understood in three layers.

First, it reflects China’s ambition to position itself as a leader of post-Western globalization. By declining privileges, Beijing signals confidence in its economic strength and its ability to shape, rather than merely benefit from, global trade rules.
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Second, China aims to cement its role as a defender of the Global South. By voluntarily foregoing new special treatment, Beijing elevates itself above narrow national advantage, presenting its decision as an act of solidarity with developing nations.
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Third, the move is also a diplomatic message to the West. ... By playing the role of a cooperative actor, Beijing aims to defuse tensions and demonstrate that confrontation is not inevitable.
...

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The population of Taiwan carried forward into the future many of the daily and religious traditions of Chinese civilization. As mainland China rediscovers its history and culture Taiwan is adopting more Western cultural ideas.

As ageism evolves, Taipei’s respect for elders fades away Asia Times Oct 14, 2025

Taipei’s population is aging faster than almost any society worldwide. Yet instead of greater respect for elders, a new form of ageism has quietly taken root.

The elderly are no longer cast as weak, quiet or invisible—but as loud, stubborn, and taking up too much space. This shift is subtle but powerful, reshaping how the public imagines aging and how policymakers design urban life.

Scroll through social media and you’ll see complaints that “Taipei is full of retirees who don’t work,” or that “the coffee shops and gyms are occupied by old people.” The sentiment used to be pity; now it’s frustration. In a nation long shaped by Confucian ideals of filial respect, the tone of generational conversation has curdled.
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Ageism in Taipei overlaps with class and geography; working-class elders who rely on public transit are most exposed to stigma. Recognizing these intersections helps policymakers design more equitable interventions.

The danger of Taipei’s evolving ageism is that it hides behind modernity. It sounds pragmatic, even youthful: “We need more space for the next generation.” But when cities frame old age as an obstacle to progress, they risk building environments hostile to their own future selves.

To be sure, tensions around public space are real. Taipei is dense; trains are crowded; housing is expensive. But ageism offers a convenient scapegoat. Blaming retirees for urban stagnation distracts from deeper forces—income inequality, zoning limits, speculative real estate—that constrain both young and old.

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In the first half of the video discuss methods and practices of Israeli influence over the decades and current practices to influence public opinion, especially christian. John describes part of an article he read in a suspected Israel publication discussing his work (4.13 min) "shows the rot currently taking place among left wing intellectuals in the United States and that it is up to Israel to stop us. To stop us before we damage Israel." At the every end of his section (51:50 min) mentions CIA taught him about 30 years ago if a vehicle he was driving felt like it was being remote controlled get it to neutral and use the parking brake to slow the vehicle to a stop.

Ex-CIA Spy John Kiriakou EXPOSES Mossad's Terrifying Secrets (w/ Joe Lauria & Ajamu Baraka) Oct 12, 2025

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Thoughts on Venezuela as a banking project vs imperialist overreach

Alex Krainer: Iran, Russia & China’s Massive Military Comeback! Oct 16, 25 (start at 56.14 for Venezuela, 113:06 min)

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QMS's picture

.

A compelling mix of geopolitics and economics today.
I found the bits about western VC's waking-up to a
different (Chinese) reality interesting. Some of us here
have been well aware of the changes brought about by
offshoring for profit. The consequences are coming home
to roost in the attic of of society.

Thank you for the mindful OT soe!

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6 users have voted.

Zionism is a social disease

studentofearth's picture

@QMS The venture capitalist I have met came with alot of baggage comprised of preconceived ideas on most subjects. And Egos which do not like challenges to their world view.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Cassiodorus's picture

https://www.mic.com/impact/the-milky-way-is-probably-full-of-dead-alien-...

It turns out the Milky Way may have once been full of bustling alien civilizations, but they are all dead now.

Remember that Star Trek universe, full of fascinating "alien" ethnicities? Never mind. Another quote:

Perhaps most importantly, they took into consideration the tendency of advanced civilizations to experience self-annihilation. And as it turns out, any alien life that came before us likely gave into that tendency long before we showed up on the scene.

Industrial societies, you see, can't handle their powers. Maybe they offed themselves in nuclear wars. Maybe they burned up their fossil fuel reserves and did in their planets through climate change. Maybe a plague did them in.

Our ancestors upon the long, slow journey from the now-extinct apes of the Miocene epoch to the present time, from what we know, experienced a population bottleneck some time around 900,000 years ago. They apparently spent some time as an endangered species. At any point during this time, what Darwin called "natural selection" (I know, this is vague -- it has to be) could have wiped them out.

The scientists estimate that there would have only been an effective population size of around 1,280 individuals between 930,000 and 813,000 years ago,

So what emerged among the survivors? Here one thinks of Cornelius Castoriaidis' notion, from the essay "Logic, Imagination, Reflection":

Man's distinguishing trait is not logic, but imagination, and, more precisely, unbridled imagination, defunctionalized imagination.

The West, then, is imagining the wrong things. Instead of its residents imagining how they are going to get out of this era alive, a complex enough task as it stands, they imagine how they can get more money from the Zionist billionaires their elites have created, or how they are going to cover for their various genocides, or how the CIA is going to put more resources under their control.

Remember, then, that a long, brutal, and thus effective process of natural selection, at least a hundred thousand years of it, produced a being, which is us, capable of great feats of imagination. And remember that other species in the trillions of galaxies in the universe have tried industry, and it protected none of them against natural selection. We may, then, want to use our collective imagination to imagine things which will prolong our collective existence on this Earth, given the daunting nature of the task which lies ahead.

But the West is not doing this. And this is why the West is so pointless at this time.

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"The Trump Administration is a white-collar crime cartel" -- Max Blumenthal

QMS's picture

@Cassiodorus
.
.
although I do not see us imagining our way
out of this morass with psychopaths in charge.
Short time gain for eventual major loss.
What you think will be used against you these days.

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7 users have voted.

Zionism is a social disease

studentofearth's picture

@Cassiodorus is a amusing well of imagined scenarios with not much proof to support a position. Is Science now a faith based belief system?

Thanks for the well composed comment. It has taken a while to travel via my mind, with some assistance from fingers, to all the links. Enjoyed the journey.

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5 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Cassiodorus's picture

@studentofearth for the proposition "life is getting more dangerous in the West, and, as George Carlin once argued, nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care"?

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3 users have voted.

"The Trump Administration is a white-collar crime cartel" -- Max Blumenthal

studentofearth's picture

@Cassiodorus in the article The Milky Way is probably full of dead alien civilizations, according to physicists based on a study using computer simulation. There are no facts supporting this assumption in the original paper.

Until actual proof exists this is fiction at best a hypothisis

It turns out the Milky Way may have once been full of bustling alien civilizations, but they are all dead now.

The next article is about a concept needing further exploration, not a scientific fact. An original author quoted in the article supports concept not fact.

Human ancestors may have almost died out after ancient population crash

Aside from fossils, the nature of the analysis also meant it had to make a number of assumptions which may not reflect reality. While the authors believe their simulations show that these factors don’t affect their conclusions, the estimated population size during the bottleneck is so low that it's uncertain how humans could have survived.

I missed the proposition "life is getting more dangerous in the West". Have not offered an opinion on the subject. It has been a long day and not starting into a debate.

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5 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Cassiodorus's picture

@studentofearth Nonetheless you would be right to assume that they are guessing, because all of their facts are circumstantial ones. I would guess along with them, because I think that their guesses are good ones. You are welcome to disagree. But can you develop an alternative hypothesis? SETI has gone nowhere. And it is fair to assume that there was, at some point, a population bottleneck, somewhere in the transition in which a population of forest-dwelling apes had to adapt to existence in climatically-unstable worlds in which they had to create their own niches by using their big brains, opposable thumbs, and upright gaits rather than having a single, fixed habitat.

I would moreover argue that collapse is baked into the elites' sacred capitalist system, because none of said elites can think in the economic or political terms that would save the human race from its self-inflicted wounds over a long-enough time span. So, if we as a species wish to survive long enough to find another intelligent, industry-capable species somewhere in the universe, we as a species will have to dump the elites' sacred capitalist system.

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"The Trump Administration is a white-collar crime cartel" -- Max Blumenthal

usefewersyllables's picture

@Cassiodorus

is exalted, then “no, it is all about us!” can be expected to suck hind tit.

The human race is, in the final analysis, all about greed. All the rest of humanity’s “great works” are merely aberrations. We now have some people who believe that they are finally accomplishing the ultimate expression of unbridled greed. They will not stop until they have it all.

Their inevitable fall will positively Biblical. I won’t see it- I’ll be among the first wave of the next great dying, as the scraps left for the rest of us prove insufficient to sustain life. And when the cockroaches evolve into a society capable of curiosity, and develop archaeology, their scientists will marvel at the well-preserved, corpulent bodies of the ultrarich, locked securely away in their impenetrable bunker-mausoleums.

Impenetrable, except for the cockroaches. They will deserve the reaping that will follow their rapacious sowing, because in their greed they forget one thing: everybody dies. And even if they somehow achieve immortality, they will discover that their unbridled greed will eventually destroy them anyway: what will sustain them when there is nobody left to cheat?

Not a fan.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Cassiodorus's picture

@usefewersyllables

If the axioms of mainstream economics were true. People aren't actually like that, though. We're not, specifically, "maximizers of utility," the basis of what they are calling the Marginalist Revolution.

The bullsh*t about us being "maximizers of utility" is dealt-with most politely in Kees van der Pijl's basic textbook A Survey of Global Political Economy. It is there, on pages 30 and 31, that van der Pijl states:

True, ‘the predictive power of the model was weak’ (that is, things usually don’t happen this way). But since the prescriptive power of neoclassical economics is momentous—market freedom must not be interfered with and its scope must be widened wherever possible—no one can afford to ignore it. Of course, some of the shine of this tradition has evaporated in the financial crisis that exploded in 2008, but its hold on economic common sense endures.

But remember the meta-principle Castoriadis laid out: people are imagining beings. So we can certainly imagine it differently.

An obvious byproduct of this meta-principle is that, if some nonsense spread into the social imaginary happens to be the dominant nonsense (like, for instance, the idea that people are "maximizers of utility"), that doesn't in ANY sense make it true. Truth might just as well be something else. Specifically: all eight billion plus of us could believe in a thing, and it would still be absolute bullsh^t.

I still think we can make some reasonable guesses about what is true and what isn't. At any rate, may you have a speculative-fiction day, usefewersyllables, and may it contain something you wanted.

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"The Trump Administration is a white-collar crime cartel" -- Max Blumenthal

enhydra lutris's picture

Thanks for the OT as well. Nothing really on my mind today, did note that the Rus is definitively declaring that the Brits are teaming up with the Ukies to commit terrorist acts in the Russian Federation, including plans to somehow attack the Caspian Pipeline Consortium. They don't care who they attack as long as there is a chance of hurting the Rus. No real surprise, but interesting to see it broadcast.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

studentofearth's picture

@enhydra lutris Brits continually show up around the world in various time periods. Who was it that started the rumor saying any statement sounds more intelligent with a British accent?

Have good remainder of the day.

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5 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

soryang's picture

Thanks for posting SOE. I watched a couple of the others as well.

This video by Jeff Rich of the Burning Archive summarizes Emmanuel Todd's view of the decline of the west. There are four elements: geopolitical defeat, economic decay, social fragmentation, moral and cultural collapse. He discusses French politics, the US colonization of Europe, US nihilism and fascination with violence.

I had seen video links to Demon Hunter promotions, and just thought wtf is that? More manga? I then came across EJAE on Rashid's feed, and wondered who she was. She's Korean-American, singer-songwriter. I was surprised to see the Huntrix song getting zillions of hits so I took a listen. When UFS brought up the 90 percent is crap observation I thought of this. I think the live version is better, but that's just my prejudice against cartoons. Ordinarily I wouldn't watch this sort of thing. What's the verdict?

It's for kids right? I think my granddaughters would love this song. The movie or whatever it is, is not considered suitable for children, I read somewhere.

I feel fortunate to have found this web site below. Google served it up actually. Looks like the author likes to translate Chinese classical poetry. It's ideal for me, really because it has pinyin as well as the English translation.

李白 將進酒 translation: Bring in the Wine, by Li Bai

(edit- typo; SofE 对不起!)

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語必忠信 行必正直

studentofearth's picture

@soryang an interaction in college with a Group Coordinator. She was really upset and told me if I didn't start realizing those without University degrees were to serve me, I was going nowhere in life. Emmanuel Todd's concept of "Cascade of Contempt, a social hierarchy of scorn and dismissal of others." fits the pattern I have seen keep repeating in both directions of the hierarchy.

Thanks for sharing.

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4 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Cassiodorus's picture

@soryang @soryang
thank you for the Rich - Todd video. At any rate, here is how I have divided history into periods:

1) precapitalism or, I suppose, before the invention of the printing press in Korea and its dissemination throughout the world

2) early modernity, before the French Revolution, in which the utopia in the Americas was El Dorado

3) Enlightenment utopia, between the French Revolution and the 1880s

4) Industrial utopia, between the 1880s and the end of World War II

5) Capitalist utopia, between the end of World War II and the beginning of the Eighties

6) Dystopian capitalism, the Eighties and afterward

Period #6 appears in my history as an attempt to destroy the utopian content of period #5. It is in this sense that the Emmanuel Todd thesis makes sense.

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"The Trump Administration is a white-collar crime cartel" -- Max Blumenthal

Thanks for all the news. It will keep me busy this afternoon!
Thanks for the OT!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

studentofearth's picture

@on the cusp Looking forward to your's tomorrow.

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4 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

usefewersyllables's picture

for another expensive but largely meaningless offyear election.

Douglas County, CO, is a hotbed for MAGA types who want to take over the local school board. Every chance they get, they try to mechanic a hostile takeover of the board. This is the second one for the year so far- and the mailers that are sent out never identify which party/faction/tribe the candidates represent.

One thing's for sure, they don't represent any of us. However, there is always one side that is far worse, and trying to find out who belongs to that tribe can be very difficult.

Luckily, there is one in-your-face MAGA type who lives up the road a piece, and always covers their entire property frontage with American flags, Gadsden flags, billboards with bible verses from whatever testament hates the gays more that week, and of course (and most importantly!), more billboards advocating for the most rightwing possible candidates available in any given election.

They provide a valuable service- I can fill out my ballot by driving by there, because I then always know who to vote against. So I guess I'll vote again this election. There's a tax measure on there worth paying attention to.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

studentofearth's picture

@usefewersyllables representing various groups in the country.

The rattlesnake was a symbol of the unity of the Thirteen Colonies at the start of the Revolutionary War, and it had a long history as a political symbol in America. Benjamin Franklin used it for his Join, or Die woodcut in 1754.[5][10] Gadsden intended his flag to serve as a physical symbol of the American Revolution's ideals.[5]
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Gadsden decided that the American navy needed a distinctive flag and took it upon himself to make one in 1775.[28][7] He gave Commodore Esek Hopkins a yellow rattlesnake flag to serve as his personal standard on USS Alfred, the flagship of America's first navy squadron.
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The flag has been described as the "most popular symbol of the American Revolution".[5] Its design proclaims an assertive warning of vigilance and willingness to act in defense against coercion.[
...
Use by the right
Beginning in 2009, the Gadsden flag was widely used as a protest symbol by protesters who supported the American Tea Party movement.[47][48][49] It was also displayed by members of Congress at Tea Party rallies.[50] In some cases, the flag was ruled to be a political, rather than a historic or military, symbol due to the strong Tea Party connection.[51]

The Gadsden flag was featured prominently in a report related to the January 6, 2021, attack of the United States Capitol.

Use by the left
In the mid-1970s, the New Left People's Bicentennial Commission used the Gadsden flag symbolism on buttons and literature.[55][56]

Following Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, which struck down Roe v. Wade, abortion rights activists were seen at a Texas rally carrying a version of the flag with the snake in the shape of a human uterus.[57][58][59][60]

Street Patrol, a 1990s LGBTQ+ self-defense group affiliated with Queer Nation/San Francisco, used as its logo a coiled snake over a triangle holding a ribbon with the motto "Don't Tread on Me".[61][62] Some libertarians use a version of the flag with the snake and motto placed over a rainbow flag.[63] Following the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting, posters containing a rainbow Gadsden flag inscribed with "#ShootBack" were placed around West Hollywood.[64]

thanks for stopping by

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5 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.