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Open Thread - 09-19-2025 - Cultural Pivots and Influences

Morning

Let's start by taking a look how geography could have influenced the differences in Greek/Roman and Chinese culture.

The full article is worth reading.
How to examine the divergent histories of ancient Rome and China Asia Times Sept 13, 2025

The differences between the ancient Chinese state and the ancient Roman state, as observed by Feng Youlan a century ago, begin with the geographical environments in which the two civilizations developed.
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Moreover, the Mediterranean is a treacherous sea where winds and currents can change at any moment. Mistakes are inevitable because the sea and wind are unpredictable. The goal, then, is not to execute a single plan consistently over a long period but to cultivate the ability to correct sudden errors and adapt to surprises.
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The Greeks and Romans were both merchants and pirates. The legion was organized almost like a private equity firm: Everyone was entitled to a share of the loot based on rank. As an organization of equals, its members had rights that matched their duties – two sides of the same coin. One had to stay in formation in the legion, holding the shield, and would receive payment based on performance.

The Mediterranean was a vast, open area bordered by three continents and six other seas, a geography that for centuries prevented its political unification. It was unified only once, by the Romans – a feat never achieved again. Although the sea remains a fiercely contested battlefield to this day, its unity was never pursued after Rome.
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The Chinese space was profoundly different. First, it was enclosed. To the north lay the steppes, to the west the desert and mountains and to the south more mountains and dense jungle. To the east was an archipelago and a peninsula, and beyond that, a vast, endless ocean. This limited space was challenging to access. Originally, it was also a dense jungle inhabited by elephants and other wild animals, with formidable mountains and rivers.

These geographic features could only be controlled by organized groups of people executing a long-term plan – burning forests, hunting elephants, managing river courses and leveling mountains. Here, nature was harsh but not unpredictable; it was a stable environment over months and years. Surprises were rare and usually caused by exceptional events like an earthquake or a locust plague.
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The army of equals was clearly outside China’s cultural horizon at the time, as well as beyond its geographical and political boundaries. The army consisted of noble warriors trained for years in archery and chariot riding, or growing numbers of farmer-soldiers commanded by a strategist-general.

There was no united group of comrades who fought and died together, as in Rome or Sparta. There was supposed to be no love for fellow comrades. In Rome, beneath the heroic band of soldiers privileged to fight and thus be immortalized in their deeds, there was a crowd of nameless slaves who could only live as long as they remained useful: they were tools, animals raised to pull plows or be killed for entertainment in the Colosseum.

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It appears the Colonel and the Judge are working with a group to possibly form a new political group. (The complete video is worth watching)

COL. Douglas Macgregor : How Long Can Israel Keep Killing Innocents? (33.35 min) (starts at 32.17)

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Netanyahu appears to be worried about growing perception Israel is influencing United States. He released another statement on the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Charlie Kirk was a great man. He deserves honor – not lies. pic.twitter.com/NwEN4B2q7w
— Prime Minister of Israel (@IsraeliPM) September 18, 2025

Youtube clip of the video portion of the tweet. (2 min)

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Never expected to see Max Blumenthal interviewed by Alex Jones. They are discussing information in a couple of articles on The Grayzone site. Charlie Kirk refused Netanyahu funding offer, was ‘frightened’ by pro-Israel forces before death, friend reveals Sept 12, 2025 and Billionaire Bill Ackman convened stormy Israel ‘intervention’ with Charlie Kirk, sources say Sept 15, 2025.

BREAKING EXCLUSIVE: Israel Placed Surveillance Devices Inside Secret Service Emergency Vehicles & Around The White House— Trump Fears Assassination By Netanyahu!!! (42:46 min)

7.23 Interview starts
12.30 Natasha Hausdorff yelling as Charlie
20.37 surveillance devices planted by Israel found in secret services emergency vehicles at white house
23.00 Israel is in an eight front war and the 8th front is the United States.
32.04 Antifa would be an easy target to infiltrate
32.56 - recap discussion

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Max is back in his comfort zone with Chris Hedge discussing on the happenings in the conservative movement they had been following.

Israel's Pressure Campaign Against Charlie Kirk (w/ Max Blumenthal) (18:05 min)

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While all lives have equal value the deaths of 2 Mississippi men will not have as large an impact on international and national politics. This is the best article I could find.

Investigations ongoing into deaths of 2 Mississippi men found dead, hanging. What we know Mississippi Clarion Ledger Updated Sept 17, 2025

“We are deeply saddened by the recent tragedies where individuals were found hanging in Mississippi. One took the life of a young, Black man and the other of a man experiencing homelessness. Although one death has been ruled a suicide and another is undetermined, the tremendous outcry from the local community over concerns surrounding the loss of these two should not go unaddressed,” said Bryan Fair, interim president and CEO, SPLC.

He went on to say the imagery of the deaths "immediately evokes the collective consciousness of those who are deeply aware of Mississippi’s troubled past. These events remind us how inequity continues to endanger lives."

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Comments

studentofearth's picture

The Rise of China and the Future of Clean Energy OilPrice.com Sept 15, 2025

The 13.6 trillion yuan ($1.9 trillion) that China spent on clean energy manufacturing and development over the past year was roughly equivalent to the entire world’s spending on fossil fuels over the same period, rivalling the size of Saudi Arabia’s entire economy. As a result, China now produces 60 percent of the world’s wind turbines, 80 percent of its solar panels, and one in five lithium-ion batteries.
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The affordability and accessibility of Chinese-made clean energy infrastructure makes solar and wind adoption a no-brainer for emerging economies. A new analysis from Ember shows that 91 percent of new solar and wind projects are even cheaper than the cheapest fossil fuel plants when fuel cost is taken into account. The result is a win-win for China, its trading partners, and global decarbonization goals.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

QMS's picture

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It is a beautiful beginning today. Sunshine, clear skies and the birds are happy.

Having trouble tolerating the "jewish state" as represented by nutty yahoo and
his henchmen. Wish it would be flushed into the sewer or something similar.

Cultural pivot is an interesting take on current affairs. Thank you for describing
the dynamics for us.

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5 users have voted.

Zionism is a social disease

Lookout's picture

Language is another issue between cultures. Consider Iran (Farsi), Russia(n), and China(ese)...no wonder it took so long for them to unite. Of course the US facilitated the unification.

Working today on a new wood rack. I enjoy having projects, and a homestead provides plenty!

Hope all is well on your holding! Thanks for the OT.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

and wannabe Zionists.

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lotlizard's picture

@humphrey  
… foreign emissaries to kowtow to them, since only the Middle Kingdom was civilized and everyone else were mere goyim barbarians.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@lotlizard

The Manchu came from a relatively "backwards" corner of China, and retained some dress and folkways customs from their nomadic ancestors - which they imposed on everyone else once they gained power. (Much of what we think of as "typical Chinese" styles, like the long pigtail and otherwise shaved head for men, dates from this comparatively late period.)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

enhydra lutris's picture

It seems that the geniuses at our so-called intel agencies are at it again. Not unlike the (off the top of my head here) bogus, comprehensive lists of gang signs, gang garfitti, terrorist words and phrases, and similar hokum, they now have a compilation of "tren de agua" emojis. I can't fathom how any of those people ever got out of high school, let alone college.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

just the first few minutes of it is quite relevant to today's situation.

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soryang's picture

Thought provoking but I have to say, that I disagree with a number of his observations. The essay seems to be permeated with cultural bias, which I find common in most UK trained scholars.

The Mediterranean was a vast, open area bordered by three continents and six other seas, a geography that for centuries prevented its political unification. It was unified only once, by the Romans – a feat never achieved again. Although the sea remains a fiercely contested battlefield to this day, its unity was never pursued after Rome.
...
The Chinese space was profoundly different. First, it was enclosed. To the north lay the steppes, to the west the desert and mountains and to the south more mountains and dense jungle. To the east was an archipelago and a peninsula, and beyond that, a vast, endless ocean. This limited space was challenging to access.

Actually the US has been pursuing Mediterranean political unity since WWII. It's called the war on terror, MENA, NATO etc.

First I ever heard China referred to as "this limited space." It was readily accessible from the sea, in the coastal regions where much of its wealth lay. The north wasn't defended by the vast steppes imo. Pirates were a problem, then came the west and Japan. Most analysts refer to China's strategic depth rather than its "limited space." I know he's looking at the ancient period, but any study of modern military campaigns in the twentieth century reveals its size and internal geography to be a military and organizational challenge that would daunt any potential invader.

The "harmony of the rowing" and the "phalanx" in warfare, as opposed to "harmony" as a social value.

Democracy and equality are touted as ideals in the west, when citizens, even citizens subjected routinely to discrimination are called upon to go to war. At other times those values are downgraded, if not entirely ignored on behalf of the oligarchy. Slavery was a thing in the west right up until the modern era. Victims of western democracy imperialism were typically denied democracy or any rights, or role in their governance.

A healthy meritocracy learns from its mistakes, something noticeably absent in contemporary western politics.

Because the organization is only as good as its leader, the ruler is the key.

Disagree entirely. In China, the emperor was only as good as his scholarly advisor class, and his generals. This is why meritocracy is so important in governance; corruption of the institutional processes that ensure competent government officials leads to dissolution and defeat. Unwise counsel is the thing a kingdom or dynasty could not survive for long. Thus an ethic evolved that an advisor should give sound advice even at the cost of his own life. This is the highest virtue.

A few, equal, highly motivated individuals can defeat larger, poorly motivated crowds who may dislike their own generals more than they dislike the enemy.

This is in the realm of western imperial thinking. A model of warfare is advanced as a virtuous historical civic principle, while China's success as an enduring entity is attributable to geographical accidents of history.

I find the East to be eclectic rather than dogmatic. I don't see Sun Zu as being opposed by Fei Gong 非攻. Factions at court tend to become dogmatic at the expense of good advice to promote their faction. Sun Zu regarded engagement in open warfare, as the last resort, and perhaps the tool of the incompetent who had failed to avoid such outcomes by other means. Whereas the ancient Greek model seems to be portrayed in the destruction of Melos. If you have to resort to armed force, you've already lost.

Noted the reference to Zhuanzi's butterfly dream, cited in Brocade Zither and many other writings as I understand it.

Possibly, the chapter Fei Yue 非樂 (Against Music) (or perhaps it should be read as Fei Le, Against Fun-Enjoyment, as A.C. Graham suggested) targets Zhuangzi and his followers, who preferred to spend time in the forests singing and dancing rather than working hard for the state.

Got a laugh out of this. God forbid you get some enjoyment out of life after being rejected at court.

Happy Friday!

Pengpeng Original Song|Mulan] Guzheng and Cello "Traveling Thousands of Miles to the Battlefield, Crossing Mountains and Passes Like Flying"

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語必忠信 行必正直

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@humphrey

....in the UK make her look like a piece of furniture being moved.

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@Pluto's Republic All time worst was the US$50,000 lab coat, worn with, uh, careless panache, over her shoulders. He essential vulgarity always comes through.

The Brits know how to do ceremony, and how to dress for it. I think of British ceremony as a kind of performance art.

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Mary Bennett

My day was longer and busier than I anticipated.
Thanks for the videos!
As for the location, location, location causing civilization and cultural trends, I found that quite interesting.
Blumenthal and Hedges were great.
By the time we discover more evidence pointing to Israel as the culprit, our government will be frantically supporting Israel's attacks on Iran and Turkey, so there will be no discussion.
Thanks for the OT, friend!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981