09/01 Open Thread - "Labor Day"

It is September 1st, 2025. Accordingly, in the USA, there is a 14.2857% chance that it is Labor Day. This is because the designation Labor Day in the US is on the first Monday in September as opposed to any fixed date, and therefore the designation Labor Day can occur on any of the first seven days which gives any day of that first week a 14.2857% chance of being Monday.
So why do we have this holiday anyway? After all, we are not a big fan of Labor here in the US. As unions grew regardless of the best efforts of businesses, private armies, the National Guard ,and federal troops to prevent their existence and growth and to break up their strikes and kill their members there became increasing pressure to designate some one day as a holiday for the celebration of Labor. This holiday celebrates the myth that it is labor that provides the goods and services that keep us all fed and housed and clothed and generally makes the world go round. The idea is that Labor builds and then mans the factories to produce Goods and they physically provide Services; they build the houses and the skyscrapers, the office buildings, banks and the hospitals, they drive the semi trucks the trains and lay the tracks and refine the oil and raise the crops and generally create our economy and well-being. So, in the face of strikes and boycotts and such we set aside this day to thank them even though we all know that is simply a myth and that Capital creates all growth, that Capital creates the goods and services and that's why all the profits except a pittance to keep the labor force alive and working is given to the Capitalists for providing the Capital that makes the country go round.
As noted above, we gave in to labor and created this holiday in 1894, but, of course, we only created it for federal employees not for the vast mass of the workforce; they had to constantly strike and threaten strikes in order to see to it that they too got to celebrate this holiday. but that's another story. Eventually every state and territory also made it a holiday. We need the laborers to show up so that's why they do get a pittance out of the profits from the provision of goods and services but we don't want them to get too much. This is where the United States' love-hate relationship with labor comes from, because labor formed these criminal conspiracies called unions where they would band together and conspire to try and get more pay or more benefits or things like the 8-hour work week. Just how did we get this particular date? It was suggested that it would be good to have a holiday that was roughly halfway between July 4th and Thanksgiving and this date more or less fit that need. It could really have been any day that was not already another holiday except May 1st and May 4th. May 1st was, at the time, already being celebrated by the forces of evil and May 4th was the anniversary of the Haymarket Affair, which we did not wish to call attention to. In essence, this date was picked in lieu of any of those on the grounds that it was a good time to have a holiday
Nonetheless we did not choose to just let the labor and the unions have their way with the matter we continued to persecute and harass unions and Union organizers up through the 20s and 30s with troops and and Pinkertons, hired goons, Palmer Raids, national guard attacks, and the like; we instituted the Taft-Hartley ACT in 1947, and placed the IWW on on the U.S. Attorney General's List of Subversive Organizations in 1949. Since then, over half of the states in the union have passed so-called "right-to-work" laws intended to cripple union recruitment and fundraising activities: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Michigan (applies only to the public sector), Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina. South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
Meanwhile one of the alternative dates that we rejected, May 1st, is celebrated, often as workers day, in roughly 150 countries but that's neither here nor there. Happy Labor Day
Much to my dismay, experience has taught me that I need to post a disclaimer here to the effect that there might be some snark embedded in the above writing. So be it, this is said disclaimer.
On this day in history:
1529 – The Spanish fort of Sancti Spiritu, the first one built in modern Argentina, was destroyed by indigenous people.
1610 – Claudio Monteverdi's musical work Vespro della Beata Vergine (Vespers for the Blessed Virgin) iwa first published, printed in Venice and dedicated to Pope Paul V.
1763 – Catherine II of Russia endorsed Ivan Betskoy's plans for a Foundling Home in Moscow.
1772 – The Mission San Luis Obispo de Tolosa was founded in San Luis Obispo, California.
1774 – Massachusetts Bay colonists rose up in the bloodless Powder Alarm.
1804 – 3 Juno, one of the largest asteroids in the Main Belt, was discovered by Karl Ludwig Harding.
1878 – Emma Nutt became the world's first female telephone operator
1894 – Over 400 people died in the Great Hinckley Fire, a forest fire in Hinckley, Minnesota.
1897 – The first underground rapid transit system in North America, the Tremont Street Subway in Boston, opened.
1923 – The Great Kantō earthquake devastated Tokyo and Yokohama, killing about 105,000 people.
1939 – J. Robert Oppenheimer and his student Hartland Snyder proved how black holes could develop.
1967 – The Khartoum Resolution was issued at the Arab Summit after the six day war
1969 – A coup in Libya brought Muammar Gaddafi to power.
1973 – A 76-hour multinational effort in the Celtic Sea resulted in the Rescue of Roger Mallinson and Roger Chapman.
1974 – The SR-71 Blackbird set the record for flying from New York to London in one hour, 54 minutes and 56.4 seconds
1982 – The United States Air Force Space Command was founded
1983 – Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by a Soviet jet fighter after it flew into Soviet airspace. **
2004 – The Beslan school siege began when armed terrorists took over a school in North Ossetia, Russia;
** Is this where we got the idea to shoot down Iran Air 655 even though it was still in Iranian airspace?
Some people who were born on this day:
Anybody against women, against the ERA, should never be voted into office again.
~~ Liz Carpenter
1145 – Ibn Jubayr, geographer and poet
1653 – Johann Pachelbel, organist, composer, and educator
1726 – Johann Becker, organist, composer, and educator
1795 – James Gordon Bennett Sr., publisher, founded the New York Herald
1848 – Auguste Forel, myrmecologist, neuroanatomist, and psychiatrist
1854 – Engelbert Humperdinck, playwright and composer
1875 – Edgar Rice Burroughs, author
1876 – Harriet Shaw Weaver, journalist and activist
1877 – Francis William Aston, chemist and physicist,
1878 – J. F. C. Fuller, general and historian
1878 – Tullio Serafin, conductor and director
1886 – Othmar Schoeck, composer and conductor
1895 – Engelbert Zaschka, engineer and designer, invented the Human-powered aircraft
1906 – Franz Biebl, composer and educator
1906 – Eleanor Hibbert, author
1907 – Walter Reuther, labor union leader and president of the United Auto Workers
1908 – Lou Kenton, social activist
1920 – Liz Carpenter, journalist, author and activist
1925 – Arvonne Fraser, activist
1925 – Art Pepper, saxophonist, clarinet player and composer
1930 – Dick Raaymakers, composer and theorist
1931 – Boxcar Willie, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1933 – Marshall Lytle, bass player and songwriter
1933 – Ann Richards, educator and politician, 45th Governor of Texas
1933 – Conway Twitty, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1935 – Seiji Ozawa, conductor and director
1940 – Annie Ernaux, author, Nobel Prize laureate
1944 – Archie Bell, soul singer, songwriter, and musician
1944 – Leonard Slatkin, conductor and composer
1946 – Barry Gibb, singer, songwriter, and producer
1948 – Greg Errico, drummer and producer
1948 – Russ Kunkel, drummer and producer
1955 – Bruce Foxton, singer, songwriter, and bass player
1957 – Gloria Estefan, singer, songwriter, and actress
1961 – Boney James, saxophonist, composer and producer
1963 – Grant-Lee Phillips, musician and actor
1964 – Charlie Robison, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
1971 – Yoshitaka Hirota, ,bass player and composer
1973 – J.D. Fortune, singer and songwriter
1975 – Natalie Bassingthwaighte, singer and songwriter
1976 – Babydaddy, singer, songwriter, and producer
1984 – Joe Trohman, isnger, songwriter, guitarist and producer
1986 – Stella Mwangi, singer and songwriter
1989 – Bill Kaulitz, singer and songwriter
1997 – Jeon Jungkook, singer, songwriter, and record producer
2003 – An Yu-jin, singer and actress
Some people who died on this day:
It's the job of a newspaperman to spur the lazy, watch the weak, expose the corrupt.
~~ Drew Pearson
1557 – Jacques Cartier, navigator and explorer
1599 – Cornelis de Houtman, explorer
1648 – Marin Mersenne, mathematician, theologian, and philosopher
1678 – Jan Brueghel the Younger, painter
1838 – William Clark, soldier, explorer, and politician,
1914 – Martha, last known passenger pigeon
1969 – Drew Pearson, journalist and author
1970 – François Mauriac, novelist, poet, and playwright
1977 – Ethel Waters, singer and actress
1982 – Haskell Curry, mathematician and academic
1988 – Luis Walter Alvarez, physicist and academic
1999 – W. Richard Stevens, computer scientist and author
2005 – R. L. Burnside, singer, songwriter, and guitarist
2008 – Jerry Reed, singer, songwriter, guitarist, and actor
2012 – Sean Bergin, saxophonist, flute player, and composer
2012 – Hal David, songwriter and composer
2014 – Joseph Shivers, chemist and academic, developed spandex
2018 – Randy Weston, jazz pianist and composer
2023 – Jimmy Buffett, singer, songwriter, musician, author and businessman
Some Holidays, Holy Days, Festivals, Feast Days, Days of Recognition, and such:
"Labor Day"
Emma M, Nutt Day
Ginger Cat Appreciation Day
Today's Tunes
Labor Day
Emma Nutt
Johann Pachelbel
Art Pepper
Boxcar Willie
Marshall Lytle
Conway Twitty
Seiji Ozawa
Archie Bell
Barry Gibb
Greg Errico
Russ Kunkel
Gloria Estefan
Boney James
Jeon Jungkook
Ethel Waters
R.L. Burnside
Jerry Reed
Sean Bergin
Hal David
Jimmy Buffet
Bonus worker tunes
Ok, it's an open thread, so it's up to you folks now. What's on your mind?
Cross posted from http://caucus99percent.com
open thread, Labor Day, Emma Nutt, Johann Pachelbel, Art Pepper, Conway Twitty, Seiji Ozawa, Archie Bell, Barry Gibb, Gloria Estefan, Ethel Waters, Jimmy Buffett



Comments
Good morning
Labor Day is apparently a paid holiday for state and federal employees.
Private businesses vary widely. Banks and postal people enjoy the benefits.
Not so with us entrepreneurs. Only have billable time when working.
Thanks for the OT!
Zionism is a social disease
Heh, g'mornin' Cap'n Q. You know how it is, it is one
thing for the gubmint to give it's workers some time off, but god forbid they go and try to tell businesses and especially corporations what to do, that would be all communistic and such. Free enterprise has gots to be free of all gubmint interference, ya know.
Thanks for the Paul Simon.
Be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Good morning...
Not planning to labor much today. I'm putting some chicken thighs and a rack of ribs in the smoker. We'll have some sides too.
Nice recap of the Labor Day story. I think of it as a day to recognize our labor and the results. I can see the fruits of our labor around our place as I remember arriving here almost 40 years ago. It has changed quite a bit, and more changes coming. Tomorrow we're having some reground asphalt delivered and spread on the ridge where it tends to wash. Hoping it helps.
These days we not only deal with the joys of country living but also adventures in aging. Keeps things interesting.
Thanks for the OT and all the music!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Good morning LO. Chicken thighs and pork ribs
sounds like a wonderful way to spend the day, add some potato salad and a pitcher of sangria to make it multi-cultural and there ya go. I'm still working on getting my breakfast made,
It's a sourdough version of a "Dutch Baby", with a ton of chopped shrooms in the batter and topped with a liberal serving of commercial black bean garlic sauce.
Dinner will be somewhat experimental, an untried casserole cooked and "baked" on a Weber Q-2200 mini grill. With enough wine it will be wonderful, I'm sure.
Good luck with the asphalt
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Good morning, el!
If the courthouses are closed, I close my office and my staff gets paid and given the day off.
I will do some weekly grocery store shopping, and at the moment, I am enjoying watching a few deer romp around the acreage.
Our labor history is shameful, and even today, union bosses are co-opted. It is not possible to have a rational discussion about labor in the right to work (for slave wages) state of Texas.
Enjoy your day, friend, and I appreciate the fruits of your OT labor!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Good morning otc. It sounds like you have an excellent
labor policy. Our history, past and present, is seriously anti-labor. Who knows if we will ever be able to change that before we reach the point where only a small amount of labor is needed to provide sufficient goods and services for the entire population. At that point anything could happen.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Well,
my staff loves it!
Trump is ending many federal collective bargaining contracts. RW news is thrilled, LW news is outraged. Same ol' story.
How do robot inventors and manufacturers feel about their labor which helps kill off the labor force?
Any guilt at all?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I doubt that guilt is much of a thing these days. n/t
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Hey, just discovered that one of the JackPine Radicals mainstays
who went by the handle “Ohio Barbarian” has their own blog on Substack:
https://ohiobarbarian.substack.com/
Their “JPR in memoriam” thread from 2022–2023 is here:
https://ohiobarbarian.substack.com/p/jackpine-radicals-in-memoriam-thread/
Good evening Lotl, thanks for reading.
Thanks for the info and links too.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Hi EL!
Thanks for the OT. I didn't know that Jimmy Buffet was gone. He was a big hit in the pub as I recall. The laid back crowd in St. Pete loved him. The "bad to the bone" crowd didn't. Really enjoyed hearing some of those tunes again.
Speaking of bad to the "bone," the symbolism in that Jung Gook video isn't too subtle. Ive or An Yu-jin, is also such formulaic bubble gum type sexuality. These AI look Boy/Girl band clones induce consumer culture boredom. I don't see any sign of the traditional culture that made Kwave a thing. I wrote this up earlier today thinking er, I'm just an old crank, maybe I should check before I speak.
I found another critic that suggested that the cloning of this music may kill the Kwave that has generated a motherload of foreign exchange earnings. It's influence was undeniable up to a point. So musical performers, and some actors, they all seem to look the same, sound the same, isn't just some kind of stereotype, the business has standardized the type, killing creativity. On the youtubes, I noticed recently there were now, AI traditional songs of the old trot and classical poem variety popping up in my algorithm. They had really nice graphics, like an old silk screen from the classical era, and appeared machine created; usually with a beautiful young woman in some thoughtful pose, in a traditional gown, and natural setting. The music superficially appealing, had a sterile quality, it didn't sound human. This is the ultimate culmination of Kwave.
What gave rise to the Kwave was a fusion between an age old traditional culture and modern influences mostly from the west, like electronic music and recording, with new variations of social value mixed with the old. Now it's just the electronic/digital formula with sexual suggestivity. You know when politicians start hawking Kwave it's doom is probably on the horizon. BTS brought in over one billion (dollars a year) in foreign earnings so it's a thing, but on the music side it seems all downhill from there. Young people will probably still buy it.
On the drama side, some of the old traditional inputs survive among the increasing amounts of garbage (gangsters, blood, gore, torture, revenge, etc.). The seaside village, the farm village, the ritual of the move to the big city, the duty to mom and dad or the other way around broken, fulfilled, reconciled...etc. That may have a longer life span before it hits the dust as well. Then if the formula is just right, the drama series may go fifty episodes, maybe sequels. The photography and acting in some of those home town story drama retrospectives is still amazing in some cases.
Hope everyone has a good labor day.
almost 2 billion views. lol.
語必忠信 行必正直
Good evening Soryang. It's funny about the music, in general,
and the stuff I put in these OTs. One day it dawned on me that it doesn't matter if I understand the words if it is, in some way, catchy. After all, I seldom get too many of the words to punk or metal either. I saw "Bridges to Babylon" live, nad pearl Jam opened for the Stones. A full set and I never understood a single thing mush mouth Freddy Vedder said, so if I don't get it because its Portuguese or Chinese or French it's not really any different.
The Coasters and Tokens were all male groups, but they weren't "boy bands". The Supremes and Shirrelles weren't girl bands. I sort of fell out of touch with the advent of boy bands and girl bands and songs where choreography overshadowed content, melody, and all that trad. stuff.
So, all these names of folks born or died pop up and I take a peek and sometimes I throw in something I don't comprehend at all, sometimes because something about it catches my fancy, and sometimes just so that my OTs aren't strictly "round-eyed-old-fart" tunes. I used to be very worried doing this because the song might by obscene or toxic but I finally figured that I'd just flat out say that I have no idea what the content is but posted it because (reason(s) or just dada)
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Gotcha
I'm glad you referenced the birthdays of these singers. Becuase I've never heard of em. But one of the best critics of this sort of thing, a Korean IT consultant who's been working in Japan for 30 years. I think he does animations, got me started on it. I came across his work a few days ago, and he was discussing it. He has a general interest in digital innovation, which he contends in the cultural realm, S.Korean entertainment enterprise is setting the pace, and Japan can't compete etc., because it's cranky, conservative, and can't innovate. I probably share that fault.
Then to my surprise, I found a related analysis on Hankyoreh after I wrote the comment above-
[K-pop: To Love or Let Go] Is chart obsession ruining K-pop?
This is the part that interested me-
語必忠信 行必正直
ABBA remade pop music into a predictable corporate income stream
in their time…
https://fortune.com/2021/09/06/money-money-money-abba-back-bigger-busine...
Just like we all saw personal computing and the Internet be born as a culturally anarchistic, hippie / libertarian “electronic frontier,” only to live to see it turn into the means for universal surveillance and control by billionaire monopolists, not to mention all the world’s crooks, scam artists, and Mossad and CIA types (spies, sayanim, sadists, sociopaths, and torturers) …
re: Abba
Lotlizard, I couldn't reply directly. I think Abba is a good example of this. It's interesting how they had to build a corporate "infrastructure" to market their productions and escape the local monopoly.
I listened to Yeom Jong-sun, one of the IT media critics who lives in Japan, describe why the entertainment media in Japan is absorbing the Korean wave of music and dramas, because it's too conservative with capital. The corporations, and networks of talented and experienced, writers, producers, script writers, just aren't there. They want to stick to something they know already works. It's probably the same for Netfix.
The linkage of entertainment and the AI surveillance/control grid reminds me of the "Mule" in Assimov's Foundation Trilogy, particularly with respect to music. His musical instrument would turn people into brainwashed zombies.
語必忠信 行必正直
I tried to reply to this at a time when that feature didn't
work, but there is a reply below addressed ti you
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
The Italian artist
Adriano Celantano produced a tune called (wait for it) Prisencolinensinainciusol in the early 70s. It is a dynamite tune, percussive and driving- and the lyrics are completely meaningless. Apparently, he wanted to show that if a tune was written in English, people would buy it...
It is one of my all-time favorites, and the video ain't too shabby either. It just goes to show that understandable lyrics are overrated. (;-)
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Heh, allow me to introduce the Chips, later covered by
the blues brothers; plus, don't forget Ppapa oo mow mow, surfin' bird and many more
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Western media’s betrayal of Palestinian journalist colleagues
— article by Chris Hedges:
https://scheerpost.com/2025/09/01/chris-hedges-the-betrayal-of-palestini...
HEY-Soryang, this is a reply to yours above, the reply
feature doesn't seem to work. Thanks for the info and article. I got a kick out of this bit
which echoes my perception that pop became all about the dance and not the music,
Think back to the 40s/50s era and there was one big HITs of Top ## list that included anything and everything, rock and roll, r&B, country & western, jazz, latin, etc., which then fractured into streams. There was, at that time a 3 minute barrier (your article also references 3 minutes) which was broken by a handful of famous pieces, and then it became more of an anything goes but album rock was still separate from rock.
Anyway, in time we say the shift to dance via MTV and other video as opposed to radio based music sights and the introduction of true tone, which became almost mandatory for a segment of the audience. We also had the millenial whoop (The millennial whoop is a vocal melodic pattern alternating between the fifth note — the dominant —and the third note — the median — in a major scale) and every damn song had to include said whoop, with some based almost completely on it and, worse yet, sometimes it was via true tone. It was somewhere in this general time frame that "western" pop suffered such combined total enshittification that many of us (including serious atists and commentators such as Rick Beato) just wrote the stuff off.
So, if a similar trajectory has infected K-pop, it will probably be fatat, but being ignorant of the entire general I wouldn't know.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Thanks EL!
I'm musically illiterate, so I depend on others to comment on this sort of thing, so I can understand. I'm somewhat hooked on Korean entertainment, particularly their popular music, because in the before internet days, I would watch popular musical entertainment programs, first on South Korean tv, and then back in the states afterwards on satellite tv, which carried at least one South Korean channel. They would put the lyrics, on the screen, like the Mitch Miller show, which usually had a simple vocabulary.
The more recent homogenization of popular music over there is something that strikes me because early on, each song, and performance, seemed to have its own distinct character; like here in the US, there were different categories of popular music. I realized last night, when I was listening to critics discuss in particular the fusion of spreading Kwave in Japan, that I had been listening to Korean music consistently for over 35 years.
One of the reasons I like being here at C99 because members remind me of what my earlier grounding in US popular music was and still is, which brings back a lot of pleasant memories. I know exactly what you mean about often not understanding the lyrics.
Thanks so much for responding!
語必忠信 行必正直
OK, I had an issue with two pages and what popped up?
An error message from Cloudflare. You may remember them, the clowns who pulled the "rRussian Hack" fraud concerning Hillary of the Dems, or both, and before that some foreign government (perhaps the ukies?) There people have been popping up all over the net doing bizzare shit and I am now beginning to believe that anything could be going on here.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I thought the Dems’ “Russian hack” clown outfit was Crowdstrike
not Cloudflare, but anything is possible nowadays when it comes to being betrayed by one’s suppliers and service providers
You're right lotl, it was Crowdstrike tht pulled the Russian
frauds/disinformation. not cloudflare. Sadly, Cloudflare has been involved in some major outages and isn't a pleasant thing to see popping up either.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I've seen that as well,
and I neglected to get a screen shot of it. However. one thing I did note was that they included a broken//lobotomized traceroute-type diagnostic, that indicated that traffic is being routed via a Cloudflare server- in London.
Really? That seems suspicious to me. I'm not doing anything odd with VPNs or strange forwarding of traffic. Here's a straight-up traceroute:
1 directrx (10.0.0.1) 7.620 ms 4.373 ms 2.793 ms
2 96.120.13.173 (96.120.13.173) 10.536 ms 10.878 ms 11.031 ms
3 po-304-1234-rur202.englewood.co.denver.comcast.net (96.110.242.181) 11.643 ms 9.738 ms 12.459 ms
4 po-2-rur201.englewood.co.denver.comcast.net (68.86.128.161) 11.364 ms 10.497 ms 10.197 ms
5 be-310-arsc1.denver.co.denver.comcast.net (68.86.104.73) 11.853 ms 11.495 ms 21.120 ms
6 * be-36021-cs02.1601milehigh.co.ibone.comcast.net (96.110.43.245) 20.681 ms *
7 * be-3211-pe11.910fifteenth.co.ibone.comcast.net (96.110.33.118) 12.403 ms *
8 * * *
9 172.68.32.12 (172.68.32.12) 158.964 ms
172.68.32.28 (172.68.32.28) 13.403 ms
172.68.32.12 (172.68.32.12) 12.250 ms
10 104.21.112.1 (104.21.112.1) 14.062 ms 13.202 ms 12.926 ms
Most of that at the top is Comcast's internal heirarchy for the Denver area, where I am. However, once we get into the 172.64/13 netblock, that's all Cloudflare:
[covina:~] % whois 172.68.32.12
% IANA WHOIS server
% for more information on IANA, visit http://www.iana.org
% This query returned 1 object
refer: whois.arin.net
inetnum: 172.0.0.0 - 172.255.255.255
organisation: Administered by ARIN
status: LEGACY
remarks: 172.16.0.0/12 reserved for Private-Use Networks
remarks: [RFC1918]. Complete registration details are found
remarks: iniana-ipv4-special-registry.
whois: whois.arin.net
changed: 1993-05
source: IANA
# whois.arin.net
NetRange: 172.64.0.0 - 172.71.255.255
CIDR: 172.64.0.0/13
NetName: CLOUDFLARENET
NetHandle: NET-172-64-0-0-1
Parent: NET172 (NET-172-0-0-0-0)
NetType: Direct Allocation
OriginAS:
Organization: Cloudflare, Inc. (CLOUD14)
RegDate: 2015-02-25
Updated: 2024-09-04
Comment: All Cloudflare abuse reporting can be done via https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse
Comment: Geofeed: https://api.cloudflare.com/local-ip-ranges.csv
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/ip/172.64.0.0
OrgName: Cloudflare, Inc.
OrgId: CLOUD14
Address: 101 Townsend Street
City: San Francisco
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 94107
Country: US
RegDate: 2010-07-09
Updated: 2024-11-25
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/CLOUD14
OrgRoutingHandle: CLOUD146-ARIN
OrgRoutingName: Cloudflare-NOC
OrgRoutingPhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgRoutingEmail: noc@cloudflare.com
OrgRoutingRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/CLOUD146-ARIN
OrgTechHandle: ADMIN2521-ARIN
OrgTechName: Admin
OrgTechPhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgTechEmail: rir@cloudflare.com
OrgTechRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ADMIN2521-ARIN
OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE2916-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Abuse
OrgAbusePhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@cloudflare.com
OrgAbuseRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ABUSE2916-ARIN
OrgNOCHandle: CLOUD146-ARIN
OrgNOCName: Cloudflare-NOC
OrgNOCPhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgNOCEmail: noc@cloudflare.com
OrgNOCRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/CLOUD146-ARIN
RAbuseHandle: ABUSE2916-ARIN
RAbuseName: Abuse
RAbusePhone: +1-650-319-8930
RAbuseEmail: abuse@cloudflare.com
RAbuseRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ABUSE2916-ARIN
RTechHandle: ADMIN2521-ARIN
RTechName: Admin
RTechPhone: +1-650-319-8930
RTechEmail: rir@cloudflare.com
RTechRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ADMIN2521-ARIN
RNOCHandle: NOC11962-ARIN
RNOCName: NOC
RNOCPhone: +1-650-319-8930
RNOCEmail: noc@cloudflare.com
RNOCRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/NOC11962-ARIN
That 158ms hop, or more likely the anonymous/overloaded/timeout one (Hop 8, three asterisks with no data) right above it, may well be contributing to the apparent throttling... JtC, I don't envy you trying to unwind all of that.
Screenshot, as it just reoccurred:
This tells me that the throttling is well upstream of JtC's new server, for what it is worth.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Yeah, getting that connection time-out now
.
as well. Never seen it before.
Thought it was my machine.
Guess if they throttle us down enough,
it looks like a server issue? Shits.
Zionism is a social disease
Well, as far as I can see,
hop 7 is probably the border router at Comcast's downtown Denver backbone point-of-presence (located at 15th and Curtis, along with every other carrier on the planet). Hop 8 times out and doesn't identify itself. So I have concerns about that hop: it may or may not be a Cloudflare box. Where it is in the trace looks like another backbone/border router to me, somewhere, so it could be controlled by pretty much anybody. My money's on Cloudlfare, thought.
Gawd, this takes me back to when I first joined Sun Microsystems, back when the earth was cooling. My new boss gave me a brand new machine in its box, and said "Get it on the Net", with a little Post-it note with my IP address. Nothing else. Lots of manual-reading was done that day... I haven't poked much at traceroute or whois since the 80s, but the tools (though extremely dated) still work. Most of the time, anyway...
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Here's what I get from Castro Valley, CA, just south
of Oakland, CA - just minutes aho
1 _gateway (10.0.0.1) 11.542 ms 11.472 ms 11.433 ms
2 100.93.179.74 (100.93.179.74) 22.533 ms 100.93.179.75 (100.93.179.75) 22.776 ms 22.122 ms
3 po-111-rur302.pleasanton.ca.sfba.comcast.net (68.87.196.77) 21.757 ms po-111-rur301.pleasanton.ca.sfba.comcast.net (68.87.195.161) 22.034 ms 22.356 ms
4 po-300-xar02.pleasanton.ca.sfba.comcast.net (68.87.193.33) 30.459 ms po-300-xar01.pleasanton.ca.sfba.comcast.net (68.85.155.25) 30.053 ms 30.381 ms
5 be-248-rar01.pleasanton.ca.sfba.comcast.net (96.108.99.129) 31.562 ms 31.527 ms 31.086 ms
6 be-398-ar01.hayward.ca.sfba.comcast.net (162.151.87.225) 31.443 ms be-248-rar01.pleasanton.ca.sfba.comcast.net (96.108.99.129) 15.579 ms 15.165 ms
7 be-398-ar01.hayward.ca.sfba.comcast.net (162.151.87.225) 15.887 ms be-36331-cs03.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.93.137) 13.577 ms be-36311-cs01.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.93.129) 14.009 ms
8 be-2212-pe12.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net (96.110.33.22) 21.249 ms be-36311-cs01.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net (68.86.93.129) 13.674 ms be-2212-pe12.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net (96.110.33.22) 20.270 ms
9 be-2112-pe12.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net (96.110.33.18) 21.127 ms * be-2212-pe12.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net (96.110.33.22) 28.653 ms
10 * * 141.101.72.27 (141.101.72.27) 29.090 ms
11 141.101.72.34 (141.101.72.34) 29.789 ms 141.101.72.87 (141.101.72.87) 29.388 ms 104.21.32.1 (104.21.32.1) 27.178 ms
nuthin' extreme at the moment, comcast nearly omnipresent though.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Except hop 10, to Amsterdam?
whois 141.101.72.27
#
# ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
# available at: https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/tou/
#
# If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
# https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/inaccuracy_reporting/
#
# Copyright 1997-2025, American Registry for Internet Numbers, Ltd.
#
NetRange: 141.0.0.0 - 141.255.255.255
CIDR: 141.0.0.0/8
NetName: RIPE-ERX-141
NetHandle: NET-141-0-0-0-0
Parent: ()
NetType: Early Registrations, Maintained by RIPE NCC
OriginAS:
Organization: RIPE Network Coordination Centre (RIPE)
RegDate: 1993-05-01
Updated: 2025-02-10
Comment: These addresses have been further assigned to users in the RIPE NCC region. Please note that the organization and point of contact details listed below are those of the RIPE NCC not the current address holder. ** You can find user contact information for the current address holder in the RIPE database at http://www.ripe.net/whois.
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/ip/141.0.0.0
ResourceLink: https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query
ResourceLink: whois.ripe.net
OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre
OrgId: RIPE
Address: P.O. Box 10096
City: Amsterdam
StateProv:
PostalCode: 1001EB
Country: NL
RegDate:
Updated: 2013-07-29
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/RIPE
ReferralServer: whois.ripe.net
ResourceLink: https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/query
OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE3850-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Abuse Contact
OrgAbusePhone: +31205354444
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@ripe.net
OrgAbuseRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ABUSE3850-ARIN
OrgTechHandle: RNO29-ARIN
OrgTechName: RIPE NCC Operations
OrgTechPhone: +31 20 535 4444
OrgTechEmail: hostmaster@ripe.net
OrgTechRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/RNO29-ARIN
#
# ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
# available at: https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/tou/
#
# If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
# https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/inaccuracy_reporting/
#
# Copyright 1997-2025, American Registry for Internet Numbers, Ltd.
#
and RIPE leads us back to cloudflare
whois 104.21.32.1
#
# ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
# available at: https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/tou/
#
# If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
# https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/inaccuracy_reporting/
#
# Copyright 1997-2025, American Registry for Internet Numbers, Ltd.
#
NetRange: 104.16.0.0 - 104.31.255.255
CIDR: 104.16.0.0/12
NetName: CLOUDFLARENET
NetHandle: NET-104-16-0-0-1
Parent: NET104 (NET-104-0-0-0-0)
NetType: Direct Allocation
OriginAS:
Organization: Cloudflare, Inc. (CLOUD14)
RegDate: 2014-03-28
Updated: 2024-09-04
Comment: All Cloudflare abuse reporting can be done via https://www.cloudflare.com/abuse
Comment: Geofeed: https://api.cloudflare.com/local-ip-ranges.csv
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/ip/104.16.0.0
OrgName: Cloudflare, Inc.
OrgId: CLOUD14
Address: 101 Townsend Street
City: San Francisco
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 94107
Country: US
RegDate: 2010-07-09
Updated: 2024-11-25
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/CLOUD14
OrgRoutingHandle: CLOUD146-ARIN
OrgRoutingName: Cloudflare-NOC
OrgRoutingPhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgRoutingEmail: noc@cloudflare.com
OrgRoutingRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/CLOUD146-ARIN
OrgNOCHandle: CLOUD146-ARIN
OrgNOCName: Cloudflare-NOC
OrgNOCPhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgNOCEmail: noc@cloudflare.com
OrgNOCRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/CLOUD146-ARIN
OrgTechHandle: ADMIN2521-ARIN
OrgTechName: Admin
OrgTechPhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgTechEmail: rir@cloudflare.com
OrgTechRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ADMIN2521-ARIN
OrgAbuseHandle: ABUSE2916-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Abuse
OrgAbusePhone: +1-650-319-8930
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@cloudflare.com
OrgAbuseRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ABUSE2916-ARIN
RAbuseHandle: ABUSE2916-ARIN
RAbuseName: Abuse
RAbusePhone: +1-650-319-8930
RAbuseEmail: abuse@cloudflare.com
RAbuseRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ABUSE2916-ARIN
RNOCHandle: NOC11962-ARIN
RNOCName: NOC
RNOCPhone: +1-650-319-8930
RNOCEmail: noc@cloudflare.com
RNOCRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/NOC11962-ARIN
RTechHandle: ADMIN2521-ARIN
RTechName: Admin
RTechPhone: +1-650-319-8930
RTechEmail: rir@cloudflare.com
RTechRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/ADMIN2521-ARIN
#
# ARIN WHOIS data and services are subject to the Terms of Use
# available at: https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/tou/
#
# If you see inaccuracies in the results, please report at
# https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/whois/inaccuracy_reporting/
#
# Copyright 1997-2025, American Registry for Internet Numbers, Ltd.
#
curiouser and curiouser
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
HEY - I just got a "connection timed out" 522 errof and
It told me that Cloudglare in San Jose was just el perfecto and something happened between it and the site. Now, the internet reroutes traffic, but my earlies traceroute didn't go through Sah Jose, and with Cal State San Jose and a large populace and a ton of silly valley, it seems more likely that it would route around and not through it. Ah well
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
odd that cloudflare in newark
reports all OK
says it is the host
error # 522
do not know shinola
when it comes to this
Zionism is a social disease
Some known cloudflare grief
March 2025: A global outage occurred due to a technical error in credential rotation within Cloudflare's storage backend.
June 2025: A service outage, lasting over two hours, was caused by a failure in a third-party service that Cloudflare's Workers KV service relied on.
September 2024: An incident caused reachability issues for some applications relying on Cloudflare's CDN and Networking services, affecting companies like Zoom and Hubspot.
June 2022: A major outage, caused by a change to the network configuration, affected traffic globally and resulted in major disruption for customers.
Just fwiw. 101 Townsend is a few blocks from SF Bay, why indeed use a London server, unless they're looking ahead:
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --