3/17 Open Thread - A St. Paddy's Day Primer

St Patrick

~~ St. Pat

Ye Basics:
He wasn't Irish, he was "Romano-British"
He wasn't Catholic, they weren't around yet
He's not officially canonized, either, but that doesn't really matter anyway
Nobody knows precisely where or when he was born, or to whom
Nobody is sure exactly when he died, either
There never were any effing snakes in Ireland

He probably was not named Patrick (or Pádraig)
The Name Game:
It has been alleged that St. Patrick's given name was Maewyn Succat and that it wasn't until he became a priest that he adopted a new name, Patricius (which relates to the Latin root meaning father) which devolves into Patrick among non-Latin speakers. In his own first writing, he refers to himself as Patricius, but he was already a priest by then. Other writers have referred to him by other names of the general type of honorifics or denotatives based on his life, but not his ancestry. It is further alleged that his father was Calpurnius his mother was Concessa and his grandfather was Potitus. Using only secondary (tertiary or far worse, actually) sources, it is hard to get much further. Maewyn Succat is more in keeping with the locality of his birth (Britain, Scotland, Wales) and really doesn't conflict with the Romano-Latin mileiu then in place. The Romans would have had latin names (DUH), but not the ordinary folk. His dad and grandfather were involved with the church so things are further complicated by the various rituals surrounding renaming people at christening/baptism/etc. that may or may not have been in place at the time, rendering the fact that they had Latin names as adults not particularly relevant. As if that weren't problem enough, surnames as we know them were scarce in Britain before 1066 or so.

Other useful information
Saint Pat's Day in the US is amateur hour, a good day to stay safely inside at home and avoid all the fratboys out getting bombed on cheap booze.

Green Beer:
True Green Beer:

Green Beer is beer that has undergone its primary fermentation but has yet to undergo a period of conditioning before packaging. It is perhaps “drinkable” but not ready to drink.

Beerandbrewing.com

St. Pat's Day Green Beer: This is generally Buttwiper or similarly obnoxious beverage dosed with chemical food coloring to turn it green. It is an abomination and no self-respecting Irish person would drink it. (That is also largely true of Buttwiper without food coloring, but that is another matter.)

Much of the music which follows pertains to Ireland (Éire) and its people and history, meaning the Republic of Ireland (Poblacht na hÉireann), and not the contiguous British province to its Northeast. Once a British colony, this British exclave is, by some, referred to as Northern Ireland because it is situated in the Northeast corner of the island of Ireland, but you should be able to readily discern those songs inappropriate to it.

Finnegan's Wake

Whisky, You're the Devil

Johnny McEldoo

Whiskey in the Jar

somewhat more seriously:

The Rising of the Moon

Johnson's Motor Car

The Foggy Dew

A Nation Once Again

The Soldier's Song (Irish National Anthem)

Open Thread, Saint Patrick, green beer, The Soldiers Song

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Comments

QMS's picture

.
Much like other legends, the character resembles a concoction.

Cheers!

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Thought is the wind, knowledge the sail, and mankind the vessel.
-- August Hare

enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS

of a concoction indeed, but as noted below, at least some itinerant preacher actually existed, miracles or not.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

TheOtherMaven's picture

we have some actual writings in his own voice. Doesn't answer the questions about his origins, but does establish that he wasn't a figment of somebody else's (or various somebodies else's) imagination.

It also establishes, clearly and explicitly, that he chose to be Irish. (In modern lingo, he had totally "gone native".)

Formal canonization by a/the Pope was a relatively late development (c. 11th-12th century), and various earlier religious figures got "grandfathered in" by default (including Patrick).

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

enhydra lutris's picture

@TheOtherMaven

that canonization could be done by autopen, or retroactively, or any of that, but nothing about "THE Church" would surprise me. Thanks for the information.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

This statue is at the hill of Tara where the Irish Kings were recognized.
6 hill of tara.JPG

This statue is on the hill of Slane where legend has it he lit the fire which was seen from Tara and convinced the pagans to become Christian.
35 hill of slane (4).JPG

Within sight of the hill of Slane are the three large neolithic mounds of bru na boinne
10 bru na boinne (1).JPG

Usually there is some kernel of truth to the old legends.

Thanks for the music and OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout

photographs. Glad you enjoyed the music.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout @Lookout

be well and ahve a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

@enhydra lutris

Imelda May is playing, its name is bodhrán which is more or less pronounced bow-rawn. Here's a sample:

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Ireland is inundated with myths and superstitions. It is hard to keep up.
The music is consistently great, as the Guinness.
There will be some unpleasantness if I am pinched for wearing nothing green, although I could convince someone my underwear is green.
We may eke out another day without declaring WW111, if we are lucky.
Take care, friend!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

enhydra lutris's picture

@on the cusp
a blessing and, no doubt, a stroke of luck. I never understood that thing about getting pinched for not wearing green, time was, one would get pinched for wearing it.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

lotlizard's picture

They more than anyone know what to think of the British and what such shenanigans as the Balfour declaration lead to.

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enhydra lutris's picture

are blindingly aware of British behavior for sure.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --