Open Thread - 10-18-24 - Turtles All the Way Down
Ever have those strange moments when surrealism temporarily supplants reality? Like a certain moment in time isn't real and you question it really happening? You feel outside of yourself like you're in another dimension? Here's an example.
That's happened to me several times in the past, but I've been feeling that way many times during the last four or five years, like all this really isn't happening. How can it be that life has changed so quickly? It seems like the change hasn't been organic, that some surreal hand has directed it all. Like it hasn't happened naturally, like it's all been orchestrated.
I wonder, have all great societal changes happen this way?
Things are weird and keep getting weirder. Like an infinite regression of weirdness. Like turtles stacked one upon another, holding up a flat earth.
Attribution: Wikimedia Commons
Contemporaneous examples of surrealistic moments I've experienced:
Like politicians that invoke turtles all the way down:
When you are having an argument and you see your logic begin to fail, you can use this phrase to automatically win. This of course only works if the reference is understood.
The phrase originates from a conversation that occured directly after a speech which described how the earth revolves around the sun.
At the end of the speech an elderly lady stood up and said,
"What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."
The scientist then smugly asked,
"What is the tortoise standing on?"
"You're very clever, young man, very clever", said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"
This anecdote was made "popular" by Stephen Hawking, who told it at the begining of his book "A Brief History of Time."
"Your an idiot.. Theres 35 letters in the english alphabet not 26...Lets count.
A = 1
B = 2
C = 3 "....
"Z=26 ... ... um ...
then its just turtles all the way down. "
Or Secretaries of Defense that invoke the Sergeant Schultz Defense:
:04
Or Attorney Generals that invoke the Chewbacca Defense:
3:13
Or a past Secretary of State invoking censorship:
4:04
Or another past Secretary of State invoking censorship:
:59
Would it be too surrealistic to hope that, after this upcoming election, c99 is in that stack of turtles somewhere. Still speaking our minds.
Further reading (PDF): This allows the military to use lethal force against American civilians (See: Section 3.3 and Section 3.4).
Further viewing: The Original Intent of the Constitution (31:55).
Comments
Good morning Free Rangers...
the onslaught on the Constitution and free speech specifically is emanating from both sides of the aisle although the Republicans are coming at it from a different angle.
Who do these people think they are?
So far it appears ham-fisted, to me at least
And so, for instance, you can find Mark Sleboda or Justin Filip on X or maybe on Rumble if you can't find them on Facebook or Instagram. The problem is of course that the Biden administration has only persuaded some of the billionaires (Mark Zuckerberg most prominently) to do its bidding. Eventually, of course, the advocates of censorship will pass draconian laws against "misinformation" or "Russian" thinking, and use those to bypass the First Amendment using the powers of the Federal government rather than having to use billionaires as middlemen.
"Forget the lesser evil -- fight for the greater good." - Jill Stein
The censorship phenomenon...
spans the Western countries in concert which tells me there is some powerful hidden hands behind it. The rest of the world already censors as far as I know.
Our, ahem, "esteemed" pols may attempt laws against that which they fear the most, the truth, but I think, for now, that the Supreme Court will swat it down. There will be ways for them to circumvent the Court, like packing it with extra Justices, or by attrition as the older ones retire or die. A Constitution Convention or Amendments for now, seem out of reach. But, I have to agree with you that eventually they will get their way and the Grand Experiment will be over.
When the Republicans gain majority power again, and they will eventually, I think they too will jump on the social media censorship bandwagon as well. They too, are averse to the truth being told.
The life of c99 lies in the balance.
Good morning, and TGIF!
Hillary said such an offensive thing about the 1st amendment that the rest of her statement might go rather unnoticed.
She referenced an "experiment". First, who is "we"? When was it conducted? Was it to prove a point, test a hypotheses, or make a discovery? Who were the test subjects, ie, "lab rats"? Me? You?
Just askin' for a friend...
The surreal is the new normal.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Hillary is in a club...
that we can't join. She was reminding us of that.
I think that all the talk about censorship is an effort to normalize the idea, to soften us up for the coup de gras.
Kerry, Clinton, Walz, C99
censorship is simply curtailing disinformation or disruption or lies and untruths, or so I've been told. In this digital age someone always owns the soapbox and will tell you your five minutes are up when they disagree.
I see that you include c99...
in the list of censors, so I guess you were trying to prove a point.
Since you're still here espousing your opinions that disproves your point, or has that inconvenient truth whooshed over your head?
Sure, prove yourself a troll, here to only disrupt the community, or go on a vicious tirade against other members and you will be bounced out of here. From its inception, c99 was meant to be a platform of civility in a online world of fight club. That was not my decision alone, that was a consensus of the early site admins, moderators and members.
We let folks speak their mind as long as it's within those parameters, even when they insult the site, as you just did.
Apropos, for the record, and by the way:
There is but one turtle. The world is supported by 4 elephants, all of which stand on the back of one ginormous turtle. That turtle is Vishnu. Like all gods, he neither has nor needs any support, physical, logical or rational. Like all gods, he is a matter of faith, and is per se, irrational. This, thru Vishnu, is buried somewhere in the Bhagavadgita or some similar work. It is not to be cornfoozled with the vaguely homonymic gaddadavida.
Thanks for the Dylan and the Simpson. Apropos, perhaps, or maybe not?
Something to ponder; what is the relationship between censor, censure, and censer?
be well and have a good one -
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Nuh uh...
it's turtles all the way down and according to the Urban Dictionary reference that I posted above, I win.
I grok the melody and rhythm of the My Back Pages song, but I'm a little disingroked on the words.
The same homophonic relationship that Bhagavadgita vaguely has with In A Gadda Da Vida, baby.
She is a parody
.
Baier: "79% think the country is on the wrong track. You’ve been in office for 3.5 years and you say you are gonna turn the page…."
Kam: "And Donald Trump has been running for office for 10 years."
She didn’t answer one question….
Never forget that she was the lowest rated veep in modern history and she didn’t get any votes during her 1st and only run, but now she has the chops to be president? I don’t think so.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
She invoked...
the "turtles all the way down" defense.
Yup…
.
Greenwald and Paul Craig Roberts.
Elect Kamala and Install a Sociopath Regime
In the tweet above Kam says that she just came from speaking to republicans and that the only difference between her and Biden is that she will put a republican in her cabinet. I remember when shitlibs were upset about dem presidents promising to reach across the isle and work with republicans…..Kam is going directly to the source.
20 years ago shitlibs wanted Bush charged for torture, but now they are breathlessly waiting for him to endorse the Kam. They’ve already welcomed Dick Cheney into their fold.
Campaign ad with Cheney, Esper, Pence, Bolton and Milley.
https://rumble.com/embed/v5gk92z/?pub=4
It’s not showing me the option to embed. The ad is at the 19 minute mark…
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Dick Cheney...
as Secretary of State? Nah, it will probably be his daughter Liz as Minister of Truth.
Oh gawd
I’ve been thinking that too, but it’s so hideous that I didn’t want to bring it up.
That’s what Greenwald's show is about. All the hideous Bush neocons crawling out of the swamp to endorse her. I’m surprised that he hasn’t stopped talking about them and say it’s just so disgusting.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt